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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by john1022 on January 21, 2004, at 12:15:49
Hello,
I have recently developed some pretty serious problems. First, a little bit about what has happened. I recently started having depression, insomnia and anxiety again for the first time in over 3 years. The same day this began, I also started having a ringing in my ears (tinnitus).
I started my antidepressant again, Effexor, which once helped in the past to fix this problem with depression and sleep with little or no side effects, but it made everything worse as far as the depression goes the last time I tried taking it. I also developed hyperacusis (sensitivity to hearing) on it as well. I eventually stopped it and felt somewhat better.
Since then, I have tried 5htp, fish oil, St. John's Wort, multivitamins and eating fish and all have given me some kind of bad reaction where it makes my depression much worse, made my joints stiff and sore, gave me bad nightmares, makes my sleep worse and gave me blurred vision when I am on any of them. When I stop them, the side effects go away for the most part. I seem to be very sensitive to them now, where I never was in the past (as far as the fish, 5htp, multivitamins and Effexor).
I have also been unable to take Ashwaganda as it makes me feel worse. I have also been experiencing bad breath and blurred vision on the Taurine supplements I am taking, although it doesn't make me feel depressed and seems to almost help with that a little.
I am also taking lithium orotate which seems to be helping a little bit, but I cannot take more than 2 pills as it makes my sleep worse and makes me more irrated (something it should probably be helping) and it is not supposed to have any side effects either.
I have had some pretty comphrensive tests done (hair, blood, and adrenal). I do show signs of adrenal stress and had excessive levels of copper in my hair. My liver function showed up as completely normal, so it seems I am metabolizing these things alright. My doctor, whom I trust very much, thinks it may have to do with the high copper levels so we have been working on that.
Does anyone have any kind of idea what might be going on with me? I am very worried as I have not felt well in almost 6 months and I am affraid I will never be able to take any kind of medication again to get well. Any help or any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much
Posted by john1022 on January 22, 2004, at 8:38:11
In reply to Medication/vitamin sensitivities: any ideas?, posted by john1022 on January 21, 2004, at 12:15:49
Does anyone have any idea what might be going on with me? Thanks!
Posted by HappyGirl on January 22, 2004, at 12:56:34
In reply to Medication/vitamin sensitivities: any ideas?, posted by john1022 on January 21, 2004, at 12:15:49
Hi:
It sounds like you've been on a bunch of 'Herb' form of treatment. Did you ever ask a psycho-doc. whether those 'supplement' for 'your mental problem' is effective? Becuase, in my knowledge from the reading, BEFORE place you on any of 'Herb' treatment, >> 5htp, fish oil, St. John's Wort,>> ... you need to get some sort of 'permission' from a psycho-doc. Otherwise, side/bad effects from taking those might have, ... if not tremendous effects, but hurting you rather than helping yourself.
In my suggestion, try to visit a good psychophamacologit to get your condition under control.
H.G.
Posted by john1022 on January 22, 2004, at 13:47:07
In reply to Re: Medication/vitamin sensitivities: any ideas?, posted by HappyGirl on January 22, 2004, at 12:56:34
Thanks for the advice Happygirl. I am currently seeing a very good doctor who practices both normal prescribed medication psychiatry and natural medicine with amino acids and the like.
I was diagnosed bipolar mixed/NOS. I have had this exact same problem in the past (depression/anxiety/insomnia but without the sensitivities) and everything was completely fixed for years with Effexor.
I was actually able to take 5htp and thought it was actually working very well when this third episode began 6 months ago. I was seeing another doctor at the time who thought it was just depression and put my on Elavil and that is when the problems started with sensitivities) I quickly stopped that.
When I tried 5htp again it would make me feel worse, but at the beginning of this latest episode a 6 months ago it was working. Now even the slightest vitamins are making me sensitive and even taking a multivitiman can make me feel like crap. The doctor thinks in might have to do with copper toxicity which there were extremely high levels of in my hair when tested.
I am taking lithium orotate but can't take more than 3 pills because I am sensitive to that. It helped a little but not much as far as my feeling bad and sleeping problems. I am sure my doctor would try another prescribed med but at the moment I am sure she would probably assume I couldn't handle it because of my sensitivities to meds. She is probably right.
I wonder if I should look into a liver flush as high copper levels interfer with liver metabolism. I just don't have any idea of what to do right now. I don't feel as bad as I did when I was on the Elavil, but I still have some kind of imbalance going on with some pretty serious sleep problems.
I just really feel like if the sensitivities went away, I would be able to take Effexor like I did in the past and I would be fine again.
Does anyone else have any other input of what might be going on? I sure hope it is the copper toxicity. Thanks
Posted by john1022 on January 22, 2004, at 14:03:51
In reply to Re: Medication/vitamin sensitivities: any ideas?, posted by john1022 on January 22, 2004, at 13:47:07
I will also add that I went from feeling semi-depressed and semi-anxiety on nothing at first to extremely depressed with extreme anxiety and other problems while on Elavil and Effexor (at different times, but I did have GREAT success with Effexor twice years ago). I was left feeling like this for months after taking then stopping Elavil.
I started lithium orotate and felt a little better. Then she added the amino acid Taurine (which I was extremely low in) and the Taurine actually helped more than the lithium orotate to get me back to the original point where I started of only semi-depressed with not much anxiety, but mainly sleeping problems.
And for this I am actually very greatful for, because without the Taurine/zinc supplements, I strongly believe I would still feel as horrible as the Elavil left me feeling (and that was even months after stopping it). So I do have some faith in alternative medicine, because without it I would still be in pretty bad shape whereas I am not as bad as I could have been. But I definitely agree I shouldn't have tried anything in the first place without being under the care of a doctor knowledgeable about these meds
Posted by HappyGirl on January 22, 2004, at 15:01:09
In reply to Re: Medication/vitamin sensitivities: any ideas?, posted by john1022 on January 22, 2004, at 14:03:51
Hi John1022:
To be frank, I have NO good knowledge regarding 'alternative meds.' about which you've been talking. However, my pdoc. is a kind oppositive to those alt. therapy, as saying sometimes those alt. med. NOT ALWYAS go with regular/pharmaco. meds. Then, he's VERY stern for any foreign meds., ... of course those 'illicit meds.' like 'coke,' 'speed,' and more to list, for that I never expereinced tho'.
In my guess, your pdoc. trying to help you as much knowledge as she has, ... but seems so confusing, partly your sensitivities to med. regimen.
Also, somewhere here, Internet, ... there are web/support group for a person like you who are resistence to psycho. med. Have you ever tried by using 'Search Engine?'
Besides this, it may help you to find the problem by visiting 'endocriologist(sp?)' who specializes liver and other related problem, since you're talking about 'Zinc problem(?)'Probably, you might be better to visit a large Medical University in which there are many different med. depts., because you sound like not only M.I., but also other 'Physical' Problems. Just psycho.-med. regimen may NOT be enough to alleviate your condition. But, ... this is just *my guess,* ... the best and safest place is to visit a good G.P. to consult various problems you have.
H.G.
Posted by Ilene on January 22, 2004, at 17:31:41
In reply to Medication/vitamin sensitivities: any ideas?, posted by john1022 on January 21, 2004, at 12:15:49
> Hello,
>
> I have recently developed some pretty serious problems. First, a little bit about what has happened. I recently started having depression, insomnia and anxiety again for the first time in over 3 years. The same day this began, I also started having a ringing in my ears (tinnitus).
>
> I started my antidepressant again, Effexor, which once helped in the past to fix this problem with depression and sleep with little or no side effects, but it made everything worse as far as the depression goes the last time I tried taking it. I also developed hyperacusis (sensitivity to hearing) on it as well. I eventually stopped it and felt somewhat better.
>
> Since then, I have tried 5htp, fish oil, St. John's Wort, multivitamins and eating fish and all have given me some kind of bad reaction where it makes my depression much worse, made my joints stiff and sore, gave me bad nightmares, makes my sleep worse and gave me blurred vision when I am on any of them. When I stop them, the side effects go away for the most part. I seem to be very sensitive to them now, where I never was in the past (as far as the fish, 5htp, multivitamins and Effexor).
>
> I have also been unable to take Ashwaganda as it makes me feel worse. I have also been experiencing bad breath and blurred vision on the Taurine supplements I am taking, although it doesn't make me feel depressed and seems to almost help with that a little.
>
> I am also taking lithium orotate which seems to be helping a little bit, but I cannot take more than 2 pills as it makes my sleep worse and makes me more irrated (something it should probably be helping) and it is not supposed to have any side effects either.
>
> I have had some pretty comphrensive tests done (hair, blood, and adrenal). I do show signs of adrenal stress and had excessive levels of copper in my hair. My liver function showed up as completely normal, so it seems I am metabolizing these things alright. My doctor, whom I trust very much, thinks it may have to do with the high copper levels so we have been working on that.
>
> Does anyone have any kind of idea what might be going on with me? I am very worried as I have not felt well in almost 6 months and I am affraid I will never be able to take any kind of medication again to get well. Any help or any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much
There's a genetic disorder called Wilson's disease in which your body cannot get rid of copper. It can have psychiatric symptoms.If you've been feeling bad for almost 6 months I think it's time to see another doctor.
Ilene
Posted by john1022 on January 23, 2004, at 8:39:30
In reply to Re: Medication/vitamin sensitivities: any ideas? » john1022, posted by Ilene on January 22, 2004, at 17:31:41
Thanks Ilene. I have looked up Wilson's disease and I don't think I have that. I just seem to be having very bad reactions to vitamins and medications lately.
I took magnesium yesterday and it made me feel much worse.
I have only been with this doctor for about 3 months and I actually have a lot of faith in her. So far what she has given me has helped me get back to a somewhat normal feeling, but I am not all the way there yet. The taurine and lithium orotate have helped a lot, so that I am greatful for.
I just must be a hard patient to deal with because I cannot seem to take anything else besides this right now as I feel much worse after I do. But then I feel a little better a few days after stopping the magnesium, 5htp and ashwaghanda. But she is a very good doctor who I am going to stick with right now, maybe she will recommend an endocrinologist if nothing else works out (I am hoping it is the high copper causing sensitivity). It just seems like a matter of being able to get rid of this sensitivity to everything somehow and then being able to take Effexor again somehow as that worked wonders for me in the past.
Does anyone else have any ideas to what might be causing all of these sensitivities?
Posted by Janis on January 24, 2004, at 14:51:16
In reply to Re: Medication/vitamin sensitivities: any ideas?, posted by john1022 on January 22, 2004, at 13:47:07
Hi John...I believe your adrenals are fatigued/exhausted, which can give you allergies, sensitivities, anxiety, easily startled, hypoglycemia, low testoterone levels...are you also feeling "tired but wired"? Are you sweating, craving sugar and/or salt a lot..in a state of constant "fight or fight" response? Is you doctor holistic enough to have you take a saliva test for adrenal profile to measure DHEA and cortisol?? Mainstream blood tests and urine tests do not tell the story with adrenal fatigue...mainstream doctors do not acknowlegdge that there can be anything wrong with the adrenals unless you have a life threatening illness such as Cushings (too much cortisol) or Addison's (too little cortisol) either extreme of cortisol which is over or under normal ranges can indicate adrenal fatigue or more extreme, exhaustion...but with proper treatment, they are very resiliant and can rest and recharge...Janis
Posted by john1022 on January 24, 2004, at 16:06:23
In reply to Re: Medication/vitamin sensitivities: any ideas?, posted by Janis on January 24, 2004, at 14:51:16
Hi Janis,
Thank you for the response. Actually my doctor practices both holistic healing and normal psychiatric meds, so I guess I am lucky. I did do a salvia test and it came back as having high cortisol and low DHEA totals (or vice versa?)
I have read a little about adrenal fatigue and sensitivities, so it is funny you should mention it. We tried ashwaganda for that and I could not tolerate it (I would feel distinctivly more depressed after about the 5th day of use). I sure hope it has something to do with the adrenal glands and that the sensitivities will eventually subside.
Thank you so much for the suggestions. Are there any other ways to help the adrenals? I have been getting lots of rest and have been taking lots of walks and deep breathing. I really feel like I could beat this again if I was able to take Effexor like in the past and not have bad reactions to it and other meds and vitimans. Thanks again
Posted by john1022 on January 24, 2004, at 16:13:54
In reply to Re: Medication/vitamin sensitivities: any ideas?, posted by Janis on January 24, 2004, at 14:51:16
By the way I am definitely feeling fatigues/tired/wired and do crave sweets a bit. I also have low levels of zinc and extremely high levels of copper which are also seen in adrenal fatigue. I guess from what I have read and what she has said copper overload is either related to or can cause adrenal stress in some cases. It seems these all might be related some how. My doc seems to think that the copper toxicity might have something to do with the sensitivities as well and if we can bring that down it might help.
I am currently only feeling mildly depressed, but if I take so much as 125 mg of Magnesium, one multivitamin, a fish oil pill or even have a piece of fish it throws me into a deep depression for a day of two, and then I almost go back to normal. Thanks again for the help
Posted by Janis on January 24, 2004, at 16:30:55
In reply to Re: Medication/vitamin sensitivities: any ideas?, posted by john1022 on January 24, 2004, at 16:06:23
Hello John...actually holistic and alternative doctors prescribe various things to recharge the adrenals...enough rest and sleep, a good B-complex daily, and vitamin C, and pantothenic acid, glandular products from the healthfood store, which are made of the dried adrenal cortex of beef or sheep, adreanl support drop - a liquid containing vitamins and licorice root - AKA glyzzerin..which is know to support and strengthen adrenals (okay unles you have high b/p), a product called Isocort, available online and in some health food store or from praciticioners such as chiros...it contains adrenal cortex but also some cortisol....what is generally prescribe is Cortef - small, physiologic doses of hydrocortisone, which should not be mistake for the large pharmacoligic doses of other steriods not considered natural (prednisone) and which can be damaging to the adrenals by causing them to shut down in large doses...this is why corticalsteroids have such a bad name...high pharma doses cause the well known symptoms of "moon face", bone thinning, loss of muscle tone and puffiness, weakness and high susceptibility to infection. with the small physiological doses of bio-identical/natural hydrocortisone, though...not more that 20mg daily (normal adenals produce 40mg daily) it allows the adrenals to rest and be supported, while still producing half of what is needed daily. this lower dose makes all the difference in the world. It should be take 5mg every 3 hours, and nothing after 5 pm to mimic the way the body normally secretes cortisol...it is very short-lived, which is why you need to dose often in order not to leave gaps in your energy level....this is done for approx. 4 months or more and then you're weaned off slowly as your healthy adrenals again begin to produce more and more on their own ...high stimulant use also has the effect of squeezing cortisol out of your tired adrenals and further depleting them...so things such as stimulants and too much coffee should be avoided as much as possible...a cup or two a day should not hurt. janis
Posted by john1022 on January 25, 2004, at 9:39:01
In reply to Re: Medication/vitamin sensitivities: any ideas?, posted by Janis on January 24, 2004, at 16:30:55
thanks Janis!
Posted by Alexander on January 26, 2004, at 10:14:43
In reply to Medication/vitamin sensitivities: any ideas?, posted by john1022 on January 21, 2004, at 12:15:49
that's pretty easy:
when on a basic med, avoid acidic vitamins/food and the way around.U take 20 mg Dexedrine, for example, in the morning + 1000mg Vitamin C and u will wonder what happened to the Dex effect....
> Hello,
>
> I have recently developed some pretty serious problems. First, a little bit about what has happened. I recently started having depression, insomnia and anxiety again for the first time in over 3 years. The same day this began, I also started having a ringing in my ears (tinnitus).
>
> I started my antidepressant again, Effexor, which once helped in the past to fix this problem with depression and sleep with little or no side effects, but it made everything worse as far as the depression goes the last time I tried taking it. I also developed hyperacusis (sensitivity to hearing) on it as well. I eventually stopped it and felt somewhat better.
>
> Since then, I have tried 5htp, fish oil, St. John's Wort, multivitamins and eating fish and all have given me some kind of bad reaction where it makes my depression much worse, made my joints stiff and sore, gave me bad nightmares, makes my sleep worse and gave me blurred vision when I am on any of them. When I stop them, the side effects go away for the most part. I seem to be very sensitive to them now, where I never was in the past (as far as the fish, 5htp, multivitamins and Effexor).
>
> I have also been unable to take Ashwaganda as it makes me feel worse. I have also been experiencing bad breath and blurred vision on the Taurine supplements I am taking, although it doesn't make me feel depressed and seems to almost help with that a little.
>
> I am also taking lithium orotate which seems to be helping a little bit, but I cannot take more than 2 pills as it makes my sleep worse and makes me more irrated (something it should probably be helping) and it is not supposed to have any side effects either.
>
> I have had some pretty comphrensive tests done (hair, blood, and adrenal). I do show signs of adrenal stress and had excessive levels of copper in my hair. My liver function showed up as completely normal, so it seems I am metabolizing these things alright. My doctor, whom I trust very much, thinks it may have to do with the high copper levels so we have been working on that.
>
> Does anyone have any kind of idea what might be going on with me? I am very worried as I have not felt well in almost 6 months and I am affraid I will never be able to take any kind of medication again to get well. Any help or any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much
Posted by Janis on January 26, 2004, at 10:26:29
In reply to Re: Medication/vitamin sensitivities: any ideas?, posted by Alexander on January 26, 2004, at 10:14:43
Really? Avoid acidic and vitamin C?? don't some meds rely on the acidic nature of things in the stomach to go where they should? Janis
Posted by john1022 on January 26, 2004, at 11:20:43
In reply to Re: Medication/vitamin sensitivities: any ideas?, posted by Alexander on January 26, 2004, at 10:14:43
I have not really been eating any kind of overly acidic foods or taking vitamin C (I havn't taken a multivitiman in a while). So unforntunately, I don't think that is what is going on with me. I wish it was though!
Posted by Janis on January 26, 2004, at 14:32:29
In reply to Re: Medication/vitamin sensitivities: any ideas?, posted by john1022 on January 26, 2004, at 11:20:43
I think that even copper excess can be a symptom of underactive adrenals and of course, zinc binds copper...when you have a zinc deficiency, the copper in your system may also go out of balance...copper water pipes can be one cause of copper overload. I hope you can get to the bottom of this...Janis
Posted by flyingdreams on October 12, 2004, at 16:12:07
In reply to Medication/vitamin sensitivities: any ideas?, posted by john1022 on January 21, 2004, at 12:15:49
So how are you doing now? Did you have your thyroid checked out - FT3, FT4, TSH tests done? What's your dr doing for your adrenals? I'm currently trying to figure out if I have adrenal problems. What tests did you have done that the dr used to say you have adrenal problems?
Thanks,
Wendy
This is the end of the thread.
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