![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 53. Go back in thread:
Posted by Siraris on January 4, 2004, at 4:18:26
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage » ian24, posted by psychlover on January 4, 2004, at 2:50:25
I have been on Klonopin for 7 years, max 1 mg. It is a life saver, and I would not be here today if it wasn't for it. I have never read anything on long term effects, nor has anyone I have ever talked to ever said there were long term cognitive effects.
I have been having issues with memory recall for a while, but I don't know if it is Klonopin or not. My Pdoc has said in 40 years he has never had anyone with any real cognitive problems from Klonopin. I think it is more of me hyperfocusing that my memory is not pristine, amonghst other factors.
As for it's addictiveness, if you wean off it, you can get off any drug. I tried getting off to see what kind of cognitive effects it would have on my memory, and even after dropping half a mg I started having panic attacks again. Anyone who has said they have issues getting off, and state their symptoms, they are symptoms of having panic attacks again, not withdrawl symptoms.
Posted by psychlover on January 4, 2004, at 13:04:10
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by Siraris on January 4, 2004, at 4:18:26
> I have been having issues with memory recall for a while, but I don't know if it is Klonopin or not.
My neurologist said that Klonopin inhibits the formation of new memories (because it increases GABA, I believe), hence the short-term recall problems.
> I tried getting off to see what kind of cognitive effects it would have on my memory, and even after dropping half a mg I started having panic attacks again.
Same thing happened to me, but I stuck it out through the panic attacks, so I am now down to 0.25 mg a day. I still get anxious though sometimes and think I am going to have a panic attack. Not a perfect solution for me.
>Anyone who has said they have issues getting off, and state their symptoms, they are symptoms of having panic attacks again, not withdrawl symptoms.
My psychiatrist told me the exact opposite, that they were in fact withdrawal reactions. This does not mean Klonopin is addictive however. This just means that your body becomes habituated to a certain amount in your body and reacts when that substance is no longer available.
Posted by Kon on January 4, 2004, at 17:41:27
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage » Siraris, posted by psychlover on January 4, 2004, at 13:04:10
> My neurologist said that Klonopin inhibits the formation of new memories (because it increases GABA, I believe), hence the short-term recall problems.
A review of this topic can be found at the following link:
http://www.benzo.org.uk/ashtox.htm
See "Impairment of Memory" section.
Despite these potential side-effects with some benzos in some subjects, other researchers argue that the balance of studies suggest klonopin (clonazepam) is still one of the most effective and safe medications for anxiety. The alternatives (SSRIs or some MAOIs like Nardil)have far more side-effects (including potential memory problems)and dependecy/withdrawl problems (SSRIs). So Prof. Ashton's recommendation of replacing benzos with SSRIs doesn't make sense since quite a bit of data exists suggesting that SSRIs have (on the average) a poorer side-effect profile than benzos and are arguably less effective for anxiety.
>Anyone who has said they have issues getting off, and state their symptoms, they are symptoms of having panic attacks again, not withdrawl symptoms.
It's very hard to tell. It's probably a combination of both. Withdrawl symptoms (including anxiety) have been shown to occur even in normal subjects (with no previous history of anxiety/depression)following discontinuation of benzos. This is pretty convincing evidence that anxiety can be due to withdrawl. The problem is that the same can be said with SSRIs and arguably to a greater degree. See WHO and UK data in "social audit".
Posted by Viridis on January 5, 2004, at 1:11:01
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by Kon on January 4, 2004, at 17:41:27
My memory and cognition are infinitely more severely impaired when I'm very anxious and/or depressed than when I'm on a benzo like Klonopin. I'm also much less functional on SSRIs etc. Klonopin (and Xanax) just make me feel normal, period. I did have a little sleepiness and short-term memory loss at the very beginning, but this disappeared very quickly.
As for withdrawal -- it's the same old thing -- is the anxiety that you feel when you go off a benzo really any worse than what you experienced before? I went off Klonopin a few times early on, but when my pdoc asked if the "withdrawal" was worse than what I'd experienced prior to its use, honestly I couldn't say yes (I doubt it was -- I think I was just back to my previous mental state).
I'd never advocate that a long-term user of these meds stop suddenly (this could actually be dangerous), and I don't doubt that withdrawal can be very real. I just wonder how many ex-benzo users really went through serious withdrawal, and how many simply forgot how badly off they were before using these meds.
Posted by psychlover on January 5, 2004, at 1:15:24
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by Viridis on January 5, 2004, at 1:11:01
I just read something about how people who are taking benzos (like Klonopin) for panic attack (like I am) don't try and make behavioral changes (I guess that means get specific therapy) to address their panic disorder and rely instead on the meds. I for one have been almost panic free on Klonopin, esp. before I lowered my dose, and I have not gone for therapy specifically to treat the panic.
Anyone else with the same experience?
Posted by nobodyz on January 5, 2004, at 2:07:51
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by psychlover on January 5, 2004, at 1:15:24
Since the question has been asked a few times above, I offer this link:
http://www.cwhn.ca/resources/kickers/benzo.htmlHaving done that, I would like to say that while it is quite possible to find scary information regarding Klonopin, it's also possible to find scary information regarding ANY prescribed substance. I will say that I have taken this medication at very low doses for around 15 years and have done so primarily as a result of having tried over 18 other meds with doctor help in that time and never found one that worked as well with as few a number of side effects. Truth is, anything can be harmful when it is not natural to our physique. It really is a matter of making oneself into an informed consumer. The choice, once informed, is then ours and it's important to weigh carefully and to also remember that medicine is considered a "practice".
Posted by zeugma on January 5, 2004, at 2:51:08
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by psychlover on January 5, 2004, at 1:15:24
> I just read something about how people who are taking benzos (like Klonopin) for panic attack (like I am) don't try and make behavioral changes (I guess that means get specific therapy) to address their panic disorder and rely instead on the meds. I for one have been almost panic free on Klonopin, esp. before I lowered my dose, and I have not gone for therapy specifically to treat the panic.
>When I was undergoing CBT I was experiencing numerous periods of increased anxiety, and CBT dogma (as expressed in David Burns's book "Feeling Good" (which my therapist asked me to buy after the first session)) says that benzodiazepines make it too easy for anxiety sufferers because they do not have to "face their fears" while on the meds. Burns instead touts SSRI's as a non-addicting adjunct to therapy that won't interfere with the CBT process.
Well, whether SSRI's are "addicting" or not is a matter of terminology: I have seen people go through withdrawals on SSRI's that looked nasty, caused a lot of missed work, and were protracted over a period of months. AND they don't seem to work as well!
The irony is that if I had Klonopin at the time the therapy itself would have been a lot more productive. Burns makes it sound in his book that people on benzos are like junkies living only for their next high, completely indifferent to whatever 'issues' they had previously as the next dose of drug fills their veins. I still need to work out my issues, and what is more I am actually more aware of them than ever, because I'm less likely to become anxious over trivial things. I think that people with severe anxiety need medication to get through the therapeutic process, and that people like Burns don't understand that severe anxiety is no more the product of a bad 'cognitive schema' than severe depression is.
> Anyone else with the same experience?
Posted by Mr. Scott on January 5, 2004, at 22:37:02
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage » psychlover, posted by zeugma on January 5, 2004, at 2:51:08
In My Experience...
SSRI withdrawal is easily managed. Benzodiazepines induce physical dependence and a degree of tolerance, although some of the anti-anxiety effect stays forever. They clearly worsen memory, but so does depression and anxiety so it can be complicated. I have taken them on and off for over a decade. My good friend has taken klonopin specifically for 10 years. He swears by it, and believes he would be dead without it. At the same time he is in a lot of emotional pain, his memory is terrible, and he still seems highly anxious to me despite having his brain a bit foggy. I didn't know him before hand though and says he was 10 times worse!
I think they are like all medicines. Some good and some bad effects.
Scott
Posted by psychlover on January 5, 2004, at 23:03:45
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by Mr. Scott on January 5, 2004, at 22:37:02
Yeah, my mom has been on Klonopin (she was on Xanax before that) for like 10-15 years, and her memory is awful, she can never find the word she is looking for, and she feels like she is becoming senile (she is only 56). It is sad to see really, which is why I want to get off this med if I can. I mean, she doesnt have panic attacks anymore, but she still is too phobic to drive (she stopped abruptly about 15 years ago). So I am sure it has helped, but not completely, and not without significant cost.
Posted by Siraris on January 6, 2004, at 2:04:41
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by Mr. Scott on January 5, 2004, at 22:37:02
What pisses me off about the whole situation is I feel the same way as your friend. As I've said a million times I've been taking it for 7 years, and I don't know whether it's anxiety or the meds. I tried dropping .5 mg and I felt like crap and didn't see any improved cognition for that week or so.
Mr Scott - Your Mom, although 56, is most likely experiencing menapause and old age. That is what is causing her memory issues. My mother has the same thing and has never taken a drug besides tylenol. It's just age, I'm sorry to say its what we have to look forward to. But trust me, if it's the meds, they are only contributing slightly to the other major problems that she is having.
Posted by rutt on January 6, 2004, at 15:45:49
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage » psychlover, posted by zeugma on January 5, 2004, at 2:51:08
> > I just read something about how people who are taking benzos (like Klonopin) for panic attack (like I am) don't try and make behavioral changes (I guess that means get specific therapy) to address their panic disorder and rely instead on the meds. I for one have been almost panic free on Klonopin, esp. before I lowered my dose, and I have not gone for therapy specifically to treat the panic.
> >
>
> When I was undergoing CBT I was experiencing numerous periods of increased anxiety, and CBT dogma (as expressed in David Burns's book "Feeling Good" (which my therapist asked me to buy after the first session)) says that benzodiazepines make it too easy for anxiety sufferers because they do not have to "face their fears" while on the meds. Burns instead touts SSRI's as a non-addicting adjunct to therapy that won't interfere with the CBT process.
>
> Well, whether SSRI's are "addicting" or not is a matter of terminology: I have seen people go through withdrawals on SSRI's that looked nasty, caused a lot of missed work, and were protracted over a period of months. AND they don't seem to work as well!
>
> The irony is that if I had Klonopin at the time the therapy itself would have been a lot more productive. Burns makes it sound in his book that people on benzos are like junkies living only for their next high, completely indifferent to whatever 'issues' they had previously as the next dose of drug fills their veins. I still need to work out my issues, and what is more I am actually more aware of them than ever, because I'm less likely to become anxious over trivial things. I think that people with severe anxiety need medication to get through the therapeutic process, and that people like Burns don't understand that severe anxiety is no more the product of a bad 'cognitive schema' than severe depression is.
>
>
> > Anyone else with the same experience?
>
> Hi zeugma,
I started my CBT therapy while on klonopin. I definately believe that the klonopin helped my therapy for panic attacks, and high anxiety in that I needed my panic to stop before I could effectively absorb CBT. I haven't really had any luck with ssri's. Many sources say that the best treatment for panic and anxiety are a combination of a benzo- and CBT. Once the CBT is absorbed, the benzo can be tapered. This is highly individual of course.
best wishes
>
Posted by psychlover on January 6, 2004, at 16:25:47
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by rutt on January 6, 2004, at 15:45:49
To you folks who discussed the use of Klonopin during CBT therapy:
I am wondering if the CBT therapy actually made a difference for you. Were you able to get off your meds or reduce the dose at all? Did it have any effect on you at all?
Thanks!
Posted by ian24 on January 6, 2004, at 18:24:14
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by Mr. Scott on January 5, 2004, at 22:37:02
Mr Scott and someone else have judged that their friens and Mother have terrible memory problems and that it is due to benzodiazapine use. How do you know it wasn't alcohol or an ssri or anything? You don't .
Posted by zeugma on January 6, 2004, at 18:25:48
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by rutt on January 6, 2004, at 15:45:49
Hi rutt,
I intuitively felt that the strategy of using a benzo in conjunction with CBT would work well, but I could not get either my pdoc or my CBT therapist to see it that way. My anxiety skyrocketed during the therapy, to the point where I actually made a plan to hospitalize myself if my fears became so intense that i'd be tempted to kill myself just to be rid of them. And my pdoc was dismissive of my anxiety and told me the issues were merely 'psychological.' It still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. I discontinued the CBT because it was not causing my anxiety to go down and I had to find another way to get on with my life. My pdoc relented and wrote me a script for Klonopin after my neuropsychologist called him advising a change of course.
It's still a little bitter for me. I got a letter from my CBT therapist a few days ago, where she expressed the opinion that i terminated therapy too soon. Not quite- i terminated therapy before i had the chance to see my life collapse from excess anxiety. She knew that I was taking Klonopin because I told her in our last conversation. It's obvious that i have serious social anxiety issues (she agreed with my diagnosis by the way) and a small amount of Klonopin (.25 mg/day) isn't going to make them all go away. What infuriated me was that the treatment wasn't coordinated properly, and I attribute this to misconceptions about the nature of anxiety on the part of both CBT therapists (at least certain ones) and psychiatrists (at least my psychiatrist, and many others too I suspect).
So now I'm feeling a lot better than when I was struggling through CBT therapy, but trying to muddle through on my own. Anxiety is my case has been pretty unremitting through my entire life (I'm in my middle thirties), more unremitting than depression in fact, because I can recall being anxious as a child, before I became depressed. Recent research suggests that this is typical of the most chronic depressions.
i don't know, after this experience, if I will ever go back to CBT. I have been in therapy of one form or another for virtually all my life, and on balance it has done FAR more harm than good. And that is a generous estimate.
z
Posted by Siraris on January 6, 2004, at 18:48:00
In reply to Did CBT help you overcome panic attacks?, posted by psychlover on January 6, 2004, at 16:25:47
I did 7 sessions of CBT, and it helped at the time, but I wasn't really experiencing that much panic. I had gone an entire year at college beforehand literally never feeling any sort of panic the entire year. I went to CBT to try and clear things up so I could get off my medication.
This winter is when my anxiety came back FULL force and really reared it's head. Unfortunatly I thought it would subside, and didn't call my CBT right away and when I finally did she is on medical leave until the 20th of Janruary.
I am hoping I don't have to call her though. I am going to look into and persue NLP and see how that works. I've heard it works really well (There was something on dateline about it the other day). Hypnosis is proven to work, and I think it could really help in my situation.
Posted by utopizen on January 6, 2004, at 21:04:53
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by Mr. Scott on January 5, 2004, at 22:37:02
It seems so simple I don't know why I never thought of it before, I guess b/c Klonopin was just something I envied for like 2 years until I finally saw a doc that would prescribe it- but my p-doc suggested switching to Xanax or Valium for my social anxiety, given that the Klonopin's effects on my social anxiety only really lasted for a few months.
I have a very good memory, so I can't say Klonopin ever affected it at all... in fact, benzos will increase your IQ if you have a clinically signifigant degree of anxiety to begin with. I tried to explain this to my p-doc, but he gave me a funny look and thought I meant that Klonopin was some smart drug. But I browsed the American Textbook of Psychopharmacology, and it said the same thing I tried to explain to him. Anxiety itself can impair intelligence, memory, and generally make you ridiculious. Anyone who has an anxiety disorder knows this as common sense.
Posted by psychlover on January 6, 2004, at 21:26:41
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by ian24 on January 6, 2004, at 18:24:14
Well, I know in my mom's case it has nothing to do with alcohol or drugs of any kind because she never used any of that. I am not sure it is the Klonopin which has caused her loss of mental agility, but it certainly seems that way. 56 is not exactly old age, and my dad (also 56) is still sharp as a tack, or whatever the expression is. I know from my own limited experience with K, however, that my speed of recall and my memory seem a lot worse than they used to be since I started using Klonopin a year ago. I was always razor sharp, and now I sometimes have difficulty coming up with the word I want or remembering something that happened to me not very long ago. And that is consistent with the literature on side effects of Klonopin.
Posted by Siraris on January 6, 2004, at 21:50:52
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage » ian24, posted by psychlover on January 6, 2004, at 21:26:41
Psych - 56 is old. My Mom is the same way, and she is not on any medication. She works out 3 times a week, she's never sick, and she's very intelligent. I know I'm nobody you should trust, but trust me on this. I have consulted with a lot of people on this subject, and they all say that around that age, anxiety + klonopin + age = bad brain. Your mom is not your Dad as well, EVERYONE is different.
Read utopziens post.
Posted by Siraris on January 6, 2004, at 21:57:45
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by utopizen on January 6, 2004, at 21:04:53
Utopzien - I don't know what you're referring to when you say it's so simple, but let me tell you, I want to give you an E-Hug for what you wrote. It is exactly what every single person with anxiety disorder who is on medication and questioning it needs to hear.
Anxiety and concentration can almost not be distinguished because they are so closely related. My problem with anxiety, is I concentrate on my body, and what I'm thinking (bad thoughts) and I get panic and anxiety. If I don't think the bad thoughts, if I don't concentrate on my body, I am fine. I have talked to many many people lately about my issues, and I have found that people without anxiety disorder, do not think the thoughts that we think, which is why they aren't anxious.
I have been searching these boards for weeks now looking for someone to say that Klonopin is bad, and causes memory problems, but from what everyone has been telling me (professionals) anxiety is the culpret behind my cognitive issues. Your post only reaffirms the latter.
I would like to hear more about whats going on with you. You say you are taking Klonopin, but have a great memory, so you are not being effected in any way cognitively? What did you find in the American Textbook of Psychopharmacology, and could you tell me where I could find the same information? I have access to quite a few books, and I'd like to look this up for myself.
If you want to, I'd like to talk to you more directly. You can email me at SirarisTMO at yahoo dot com if you want.
Thanks again for your great post.
Posted by psychlover on January 6, 2004, at 22:31:16
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by Siraris on January 6, 2004, at 21:57:45
Siraris,
You are of course right that everyone is different. It's a good point.
Also, I am happy that you feel so relieved from reading Utopizen's post. It feels good to know that someone else has had the same experiences and feels the same way.
One more thing, I know exactly what you mean when you talk about thinking about being anxious causing the anxiety. Same thing happens here, or it does when I am not on enough meds (Klonopin and whatever else). But I always thought that was a sign of obsessive thinking (OCD without the C), which is what my pdoc said I have. What do you think about that?
All the best,
plover
Posted by psychlover on January 6, 2004, at 22:41:52
In reply to Did CBT help you overcome panic attacks?, posted by psychlover on January 6, 2004, at 16:25:47
Hey, what a coincidence!
This article about scanning the brains of people who underwent CBT for depression vs. those who took meds just came out today. It's very interesting. From the Boston Globe. Enjoy!
What do people think about this article? I think the findings are fascinating, but I see that the CBT proponents see this as proof that meds are unnecessary, which is definitely not the case for everyone.
All the best,
psychlover
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 6, 2004, at 23:36:15
In reply to Did CBT help you overcome panic attacks?, posted by psychlover on January 6, 2004, at 16:25:47
> I am wondering if the CBT therapy actually made a difference for you...
I'd like follow-ups regarding CBT to be redirected to Psycho-Babble Psychology. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20040102/msgs/297458.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Kon on January 6, 2004, at 23:45:56
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by Mr. Scott on January 5, 2004, at 22:37:02
>in fact, benzos will increase your IQ if you have a clinically signifigant degree of anxiety to begin with.
When one is preoccupied by their anxiety, one has less ability to focus on a task but there is no evidence I've come across suggesting long-term benzo use will increase one's IQ. If you have any such studies, please post them. In fact, a number of studies suggest that long-term psychotropic drug use (including benzos)can cause cognitive problems even in anxious individuals; that is, anxious patients who aren't on medication score higher on cognitive/memory tests than anxious patients that have been on long-term psychotropic drug treatment (including benzos). Moreover, a number of studies suggest improvement in memory/cognition tests following withdrawl of benzos. See studies below.
--------------------------------------------------
Psychol Med. 1999 Mar;29(2):421-8.Anxiety, depression, psychotropic drug use and cognitive impairment.
Paterniti S, Dufouil C, Bisserbe JC, Alperovitch A.
Institut National de la Sante et de la Recherche Medicale, Unit 360, Paris, France.
BACKGROUND: Numerous studies have shown that anxiety and depression are related to cognitive impairment, but the concomitant association between anxious symptoms, depressive symptoms and cognitive function has not been investigated, and, most studies have not considered psychotropic drug use as a possible confounding factor. METHODS: We assessed the independent association between depression, anxiety, psychotropic drug use and cognitive performance in 457 men and 659 women, aged 59-71 years living in the community. Data on demographic background, occupation, medical history, drug use and personal habits were obtained using a standardized questionnaire. The Spielberger Inventory Trait and the Center for Epidemiologic Study-Depression (CES-D) scales were used to evaluate anxious and depressive symptomatology respectively. Cognitive assessment included six traditional tests covering the main areas of cognitive functioning. RESULTS: In men, anxious and depressive symptomatologies had independent significant associations with most cognitive abilities, independent of psychotropic drug use. In women, the association between anxiety or depression and cognitive functioning was less strong and disappeared after adjustment for psychotropic drug use. Psychotropic drug use was associated with lower cognitive scores in both sexes. In men with high CES-D scores, we found positive correlations between anxiety level and cognitive scores. CONCLUSIONS: The study showed that anxiety, depression and psychotropic drug use were significantly and independently associated with cognitive functioning in elderly men. The high prevalence of psychotropic drug use in women with or without psychological disorders may explain its major effect in women. Results suggested that anxiety may partly compensate for some negative effects of depression on cognitive functioning.
--------------------------------------------------
Psychol Med. 1994 Feb;24(1):203-13.Lack of cognitive recovery following withdrawal from long-term benzodiazepine use.
Tata PR, Rollings J, Collins M, Pickering A, Jacobson RR.
Department of Psychology, St George's Hospital Medical School, University of London.
Twenty-one patients with significant long-term therapeutic benzodiazepine (BZ) use, who remained abstinent at 6 months follow-up after successfully completing a standardized inpatient BZ withdrawal regime, and 21 normal controls matched for age and IQ but not for anxiety, were repeatedly tested on a simple battery of routine psychometric tests of cognitive function, pre- and post-withdrawal and at 6 months follow-up. The results demonstrated significant impairment in patients in verbal learning and memory, psychomotor, visuo-motor and visuo-conceptual abilities, compared with controls, at all three time points. Despite practice effects, no evidence of immediate recovery of cognitive function following BZ withdrawal was found. Modest recovery of certain deficits emerged at 6 months follow-up in the BZ group, but this remained significantly below the equivalent control performance. The implications of persisting cognitive deficits after withdrawal from long-term BZ use are discussed.
Posted by psychlover on January 7, 2004, at 0:13:45
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by Kon on January 6, 2004, at 23:45:56
Uh-oh. The second study you cited that showed that congnitive function did not improve after discontinuation from long-term benzo use, even after 6 months, is especially disconcerting. This is what I intuitively felt was the case, but I am rather disturbed that this study seemed to confirm that hypothesis.
Do you have any other studies that also concur with this finding (that discontinuation of benzos does not result in improvement of cognitive function to pre-treatment levels)? I would very much like to read them.
Thanks,
psychlover
Posted by Siraris on January 7, 2004, at 0:15:05
In reply to Re: Long Term Klonopin Usage, posted by Kon on January 6, 2004, at 23:45:56
*The study showed that anxiety, depression and psychotropic drug use were significantly and independently associated with cognitive functioning in elderly men.*
Elderly men... do you think that's even relevant to this situation? I am not elderly, I'm in my early 20's. When I am elderly, I expect to lose cognitive abilities because my brain is old. My Grandmother is 92 and is losing her cognitive abilities because she's ELDERLY. She takes no medication whatsoever and is not sick in any way.
Regarding both tests, what evidence do they have of the cognitive abilities of these patients before the testing.
In the second test, how do they know that the Benzo's were causing the cognitive ability loss and not the fact that they were anxious and depressed? It says nowhere that they were anxiety and depression free.
I mean granted here are two studies of people on Benzo's, but they don't seem to be very good if you ask me. If you show me a test where they found that 50 people had a 120 IQ before taking Benzos, and then started taking them and their IQ dropped to 110, then I'd say Benzos are the issue.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.