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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 0:12:59
In reply to Wanna talk on social? » Stavros, posted by femlite on November 12, 2003, at 0:06:08
Actually i am having trouble sleeping tonight mostly because I had an hour of normal self earlier this evening and then it was taken from me. I do no have regular hrs as i am inbetween things right now. Doesn't help thing but I will be fine. I have Ambien and all the others but i cannot wait to see my pdoc on fri. I hope you sleep well and thanks for your love and concern. feeling are mutual. God bless
Posted by femlite on November 12, 2003, at 0:13:22
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 0:05:34
I respond at the top. It seems easier on the reader to not have to reread the whole post to get to the answer. But Im flexible. Would you rather talk at the chat room you mentioned? Id have to get registered eh? I may not have enough brain power to do that to night. Are you okay? Is it late where you live. Do you usually stay up late? Are you up because your hurting, frustrated?
Im glad of your backround. My faith has pulled me through many a dark night.> > Do you respond at the bottom of the post or the top? I have both wonderful Family and friends. I come from a solid Christian background and that is the only place that i feel will get me out of myself. It's too bad they dont have chat rooms here. There is fantastic chat room with real supportive people it called http://www.walkers.org/ I used to help and get help from others there. I would love to hear your trials and tribulations
>
> s
> >
> >
> > Im glad to hear of your support system. Is it family or friends, or both?
> > If we want to talk about other things besides meds, probably the social board would be a good place.
> > I cant promise answers but I can share my own experience. Sometimes it helps to hear a new perspective.
> > femlite
> >
> >
> > > yes i do hurt and i don't know where to go even though i have a great support system, thanks talk where?
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 0:17:05
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind » Stavros, posted by femlite on November 12, 2003, at 0:13:22
Thanks i will be OK for tonight but you should check out that site it 12:15 here so i understand that you need to go but so seet of you to offer. I know other i that chat room too. I look forward to offering stories of my survival over the coming weeks I hope you can sleep well
sg
Posted by femlite on November 12, 2003, at 0:19:15
In reply to Re: Wanna talk on social?, posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 0:12:59
Is your pdoc relationship good?
Are you worried about your appointment?
i will pray it goes well.
I understand your disapointment in meds. They are limited.
I will look for you tomorrow.
Try to get some shut eye okay? Sleeping is easier on a weary heart than reality, eh?
femlite
> Actually i am having trouble sleeping tonight mostly because I had an hour of normal self earlier this evening and then it was taken from me. I do no have regular hrs as i am inbetween things right now. Doesn't help thing but I will be fine. I have Ambien and all the others but i cannot wait to see my pdoc on fri. I hope you sleep well and thanks for your love and concern. feeling are mutual. God bless
Posted by femlite on November 12, 2003, at 0:21:41
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 0:17:05
Posted by stacia on November 12, 2003, at 0:25:48
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 0:17:05
If you ever wanna talk sometime...I'm here. I can't offer any solutions, but I can listen (or rather read ;) ) My education/insomnia (bio-chem/clin psych) has given me a lot of information that may or may not be useful, but I'm often told that I sound condescending when I offer too much technical information. I guess that's why I'm afraid to post sometimes. I hope that everyone sleeps well. Good luck to all.
S
Posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 0:27:04
In reply to Is your screenname the same at the chat room? (nm) » Stavros, posted by femlite on November 12, 2003, at 0:21:41
no it atypical are you on now?
Posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 0:34:31
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by stacia on November 12, 2003, at 0:25:48
Thanks Stacia, I have a pharma background as well and also can get caught up in my shorts. Sometimes late at night is the only time i can think or it's the deepest darkness ever I look forward to talking in the future
sg
Posted by stacia on November 12, 2003, at 0:37:06
In reply to Re: Is your screenname the same at the chat room?, posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 0:27:04
If you don't mind my asking, where is there a chat room?
Posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 0:43:08
In reply to Re: Is your screenname the same at the chat room?, posted by stacia on November 12, 2003, at 0:37:06
this is the address I am on right now under alias of atypical. check it out when you have time
Posted by Adam Donahue on November 12, 2003, at 12:25:31
In reply to I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by Stavros on November 11, 2003, at 19:18:10
This is ME, right NOW. I know /exactly/ how you feel! You want to escape, just praying that one minute you'll snap out of it. It's a scary feeling. I can't concentrate, feel numb in the brain ... :(
Adam
Posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 12:35:33
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by Adam Donahue on November 12, 2003, at 12:25:31
Sorry you feel this way too. I am sitting at home under the covers just trying to breath as I wait to see my doc in a few days. hang in there
Posted by Darby on November 12, 2003, at 18:17:28
In reply to I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by Stavros on November 11, 2003, at 19:18:10
That's the term I'd use to describe this state of mind. I've dealt with this since my adolescence and it can become a tormenting thing.
The best way to describe it is as a kind of involutional mind trap in which my attention is rivetted to my "self" thinking about my own mind thinking in this immediate moment. It is literally just me (my "self")and the existential moment caught together. Terror and panic creep in when I realize I could be trapped in this self-absorbed "thought moment" forever, unable to distract myself from it ever again, unable to focus my attention to the external world. Of course, eventually my attention is taken elsewhere and I'm no longer obsessively self-aware. But I'm forever wary of "it" coming back into my everyday life, worried from moment to moment that it will never leave me and will always be hanging over me, ready to trap me back into my own head.
It seems to be a kind of attentional glitch in the brain, perhaps involving the temporal lobe and my perception of time passing from second to second. Usually a person's attentional apparatus shifts freely as we live our lives and experience the world. Voluntary attention can be harnessed to tasks that don't grab our interest. In this painful situation, it's as if my attentional apparatus is not under my control and I can't shed that tormenting sense of self-awareness or can't ever be destracted from myself. There's almost a taunting quality to its presence, a sense that I'm always going to have to fight it off.
A good analogy would be a person having to deal with tinnitis. There is the horrible, "caged animal" fear that one can never escape the high-pitched sound, no matter where you go and what you do. Or, like the unpredictable intrusiveness of auditory hallucinations a schizophrenic person experiences, always there and out of one's control.
It could be epilepsy-related and there definitely seems to be an obsessional component. It breeds depression, severe panic, chronic anxiety with traumatic stress reaction and a dreary sense of dissociation.
Of all the major meds I've tried, the most effective has been a combination of an SSRI(Prozac) with the anti-convulsant (Gabitril). It's been incredibly helpful for all of my symptoms.
Hope this helps you.
Darby
Posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 18:28:03
In reply to Attentional/Temporal Trapping, posted by Darby on November 12, 2003, at 18:17:28
Darby, Amazing that you can describe the same thing. I have tried all the ssri but had not heard of the other med.you mentioned. Thank you from sharing and I am so happy that you are able to manage this and go on with your life. As far as I know my mind will eternally be on how to get away from this prison or in my psychologist office (physically there or not, trying to make sense of this) I plead with God to let me go and go on with my life but i am just so stuck! i will ask my pdoc this week about Gab . . .
Posted by Liligoth on November 12, 2003, at 21:13:17
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by Stavros on November 11, 2003, at 23:38:40
it sounds like existential pain that becomes obsessive & relentless. I know this pain too. If you are not in a major depression along with this you may find yoga & meditation will give you complete relief. good luck in your struggle
Posted by gianpiero on November 12, 2003, at 23:34:26
In reply to Re: Attentional/Temporal Trapping, posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 18:28:03
Stavros, I read your post originally and it sounded very similar to what I'm experiencing. But, I still wasn't sure, because I often have a hard time describing what my problem is. Then Darby comes along and writes his description and just validated what I was thinking.
This feeling of self awareness and anxiety has become so common place for me, that it's almost always there. It just hangs there in my mind and manifests itself in this real strange feeling. I always feel so confused and just awkward about everything. Sometimes, it feels as though my consciousness/mind is trying to escape my body. Its so hard to focus my concentration away from it and just live and exist.
Anyways, thanks for your posts and good luck.
Gianpiero
> Darby, Amazing that you can describe the same thing. I have tried all the ssri but had not heard of the other med.you mentioned. Thank you from sharing and I am so happy that you are able to manage this and go on with your life. As far as I know my mind will eternally be on how to get away from this prison or in my psychologist office (physically there or not, trying to make sense of this) I plead with God to let me go and go on with my life but i am just so stuck! i will ask my pdoc this week about Gab . . .
Posted by octiigon on November 13, 2003, at 7:10:43
In reply to Re: Attentional/Temporal Trapping, posted by gianpiero on November 12, 2003, at 23:34:26
Hey Stavros..... reading your message sent flashbacks ripping through my mind. Memories of collapsing in a corner of a room, only to cry out to God asking to please let me move on. Memories that could easily be tied into Nine Inch Nails songs. Especially The Downward Spiral- basically an analogy to the entire procedure .I don't even know how long it lasted. Years.... that's all I know.
I find there is a loophole somewhere that you have to repair in your mind, at least that's what I found. You don't think there is one untill the thought triggers something in your mind, and then sends explosions of thoughts throughout. Mine was basically the fact that everything wasn't exactly what I thought it to be. I'm sure everyone else's is different....
I found lifting weigths and keeping a diary for thoughts to be extremely helpful.... It also is a way to let you know you have had progress, by being able to look back on things you wrote and say "Hey.. I didn't feel too good about that".
Anyway... I know EXACTLY what you're going through and i'm available to talk most any time.
Keep Surviving.
Posted by Darby on November 13, 2003, at 15:04:08
In reply to Re: Attentional/Temporal Trapping, posted by Stavros on November 12, 2003, at 18:28:03
Stavros,
I really think one of the anti-convulsants with the SSRI of your choice might help. Any one of the following meds added to your SSRI might
be helpful:Gabitril (tiagabine)- fewest side effects (for me)
Lamictal (lamotrigine)
Topomax
Neurontin
Oxcarbazepine or Carbemazepine....talk to your doctor.
There seem to be pathways in the brain that cause us to be unusually aware of our own pain, physical and psychic. When this awareness goes haywire and we get hung up with our own anguish and don't seem to be able to leave the immediate moment behind, the best help is pharmacological help, I think. Some of the newer epilepsy drugs have fewer side effects and, like the older AEDs, seem to stabilize the electrochemical "hiccups" that interfere with normal activity in various parts of the brain.
I have found that the serotonergic meds seem to tell my brain, "relax, everything's fine...chill...don't worry." The anti-convulsants, on the other hand, seem to be almost quietly repairative, helping to fine-tune neuron level stuff I can't comprehend.
In my situation, there is a quality to my helplessness that seems to stem from from me (I) (my observing self) existing "outside" my own mind/brain's neurological stream of consciousness. It's as if there are two separate, unintegrated "tracks," or "sets of attention," operating simultaneously in my psychic universe.
It's the terrifying, disorienting sense that I'm literally trapped in the process of trying to "think" two "thoughts" at once and that I can't leave one thought/reflection behind to move on the the next!This condition may involve an irregularity in the way the brain takes a thought in the present and either smoothly goes on to the next thought or "labels/red-flags" that thought as "important" and stores it as a memory. In my head, every thought/moment seems to be red-flagged as "important" and simply CANNOT be left behind.
For me, Gabitril (added to SSRI) was the only med that helped smooth out these thought traps.
Good Luck,
Darby
Posted by Stavros on November 13, 2003, at 16:13:04
In reply to More On Attentional/Temporal Trapping , posted by Darby on November 13, 2003, at 15:04:08
Darby,
I thoroughly appreciate your responses. I have not had very good exp. with the SSRIs but currently am on Welbutrin XL 150/day. I was on Lamictial/ Effexor then just lamictal recently . Lamictal is pretty activating however I was on it for about a year adding on various other meds, Clomipramine, ambilify and Serazone i think? I am off it now but my doc may add it onto my Wellbutrin tomorrow? It makes me motivated and i need that as am in between jobs.
I took Neurontin with a combo of Paxil or Zoloft,I can't remember as I am in my 10th year of medication hell including a recent washout. I still don't remember the old me. I have also taken Carbomazapine a while ago too; dont remember the outcome. I have just taken so many meds like all of us here. i feel like i may have to go back and start all over again, again.Like you stated your mind has two thoughts going on and you switch back and forth. I feel ya on that. Or your mind cannot go to step 2 w/o processing step 1. My mind will not let it go even as my conscious mind is willing to let x go. I am so so confused at this point as to what med is making me upset or is just the fact that this illness has taken me out of the game upseting me? I just give up and maybe that's what i need to do and let the pdoc have complete control over me? Because of the same things you mentioned about not letting one thouhgt go for another i just cannot move on without resolution.
I have not tried Topomax or Gabitril yet. All i know is that I want to forget about what i am feeling and thinking and just be. How reat would it be to wake up and your mind not instantly go there? This would depress anyone. Then you get an AD which brings out a different me? God hlep us all. I am just venting I guess here. Viewing these post is my full time job right now as i just don't feel that comfortable leaving the house? I will definitly inquire about Gabitril so many people have said positive things about it. Right now I am addicted with all these posting. Since the signals that my mind receives are all about this self-indulging prison i live in It seems to help to try and understand/help others too. Thanks so much and i don't know if all this made much sense but usually after I eat i get a bit uneasy and lose concentration? In will keep you in formed about if I go on Gabitril.
Stavros
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 15, 2003, at 15:38:01
In reply to Wanna talk on social? » Stavros, posted by femlite on November 12, 2003, at 0:06:08
> Im going to bed now. (its 1 am where I live)
> I will look for you in the morning.
> If your there, we can talk and share some thoughts.Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20031113/msgs/280058.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Stavros on November 18, 2003, at 1:46:54
In reply to I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by Stavros on November 11, 2003, at 19:18:10
Well I off Wellbutrin XL and onto Strattera. I am so hurting and realy want to get away from me!! Thanks for everyones help> Hello all and I appreciate anyone who takes the time to read my babble. I feel like I am an anomaly. I have taken almost every medicine mentioned on here and many, many combinations but still cannot let this thing, or my mind will not let this thing go from my consciousness?
>
> It's feels like the pain when you first get your heart broken. You wake up with that pain you take it to work; everywhere you go it's there with you. Eventually it reduces its strength and you wake up one morning and think 'wow I didn't even think of that' ? Now that sort of pain has a name to it, a broken heart or dream etc. My pain feels the same but I have no heartbreak? Although I have had great difficulty in relationships. This 'X' thing that my mind seems to grab on to or needs to, consumes my consciousness and the best I can do is distract myself from myself. As soon as there is no greater thing to displace this ‘X thing’ I am back to the "X prison". Like a dog chained to a tree, I cannot get away?
>
> If consciousness is like a PC desktop then my consciousness is covered with icons that are meaningless, take up space and make me anxious? I need to reboot my brain but every morning X is there again? As a result of not being able to get away from this I get more anxious/depressed etc. Currently I am trying Wellbutrin XL 150 and Klonopin as needed.
>
> I know this is an anxiety related issue as it initially occurred after over-thinking going forward with a relationship (almost 20 yrs ago) Initially I was so relieved when a pdoc told me there was a medicine for this mild anxiety/depression (possible ADHD)problem. He Rxed Wellbutrin IM and 12 years ago when it came out Wellbutrin seemed to work great. I was almost immediately relieved and soon after the X thing in my head just wasn't something my mind wanted to go to? I only took Wellbutrin for 4 months and I was pretty much fine for 3-4 years.
>
> After college and working a few years I started to feel like life was passing me by and began to get anxious which led my mind to becoming consumed again. Terrified of this I went back on Wellbutrin but did not get the same relief.
>
> I quit work because I wanted to try and get to the bottom of this instead of having to rise to the occasion every morning which is what I have had to do over the past 9 years. I am exhausted and now isolating myself? Does this resonate with anyone else?
>
Posted by femlite on November 18, 2003, at 11:35:11
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by Stavros on November 18, 2003, at 1:46:54
Hi Stavros,
Why are you quitting the Wellbutrin?
I'll check the social board tonight around 10:00pm central standard time, if you want to chat. I have some other questions for you but they are not medicinal in nature and we will get redirected. Look for you tonight
femlite
Posted by Stavros on November 18, 2003, at 12:36:54
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind » Stavros, posted by femlite on November 18, 2003, at 11:35:11
Femlite,
Thanks for your concern. I was very anxious on Wellbutrin XL and that would make me become like ending it all very easily. I was more clear in the mind but I had a hard time eating and leaving the house. Now on Strattera only 3 days i am so discouraged and depressed I will look for you on the social board around 10
s
> Hi Stavros,
> Why are you quitting the Wellbutrin?
> I'll check the social board tonight around 10:00pm central standard time, if you want to chat. I have some other questions for you but they are not medicinal in nature and we will get redirected. Look for you tonight
> femlite
Posted by KimberlyDi on November 18, 2003, at 13:36:45
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind, posted by Stavros on November 18, 2003, at 1:46:54
What if "X" isn't the problem? Maybe you hold onto "X" because you don't know what to replace it with. I hold onto my pain, wrongly, because it's how I define myself. There's a void without "X" that I'm afraid of. The void that is supposed to be filled with what I want out of life and which direction I'm supposed to be headed in.
Or... maybe it's just the ADHD in ya, and Strattera will help you focus. I had some success with Strattera and I wish you luck.
KDi in TX
Posted by Stavros on November 18, 2003, at 14:01:20
In reply to Re: I cannot get away from myself and free my mind » Stavros, posted by KimberlyDi on November 18, 2003, at 13:36:45
KDi, Thanks for your response.
You maybe correct? I have not idea what is what any longer? For all I know now is that my mind wants to know why x is there instead of the pain of x? X is dismantleing/consuming my life even more and I cannot get out. I resigned from work to get to the bottom of this and now it's really consuming me. I am so sick of rising above the terrible feeling inside of me and I cannot get away at all. The time in between meds is killing me also. I cannot enjoy myself in anything. I am very very deep in hopeless feelings and just hope that I can some how get out. God bless this Strattera to give me a bit of a break from me.
Ever so helpless,
Stavros
> What if "X" isn't the problem? Maybe you hold onto "X" because you don't know what to replace it with. I hold onto my pain, wrongly, because it's how I define myself. There's a void without "X" that I'm afraid of. The void that is supposed to be filled with what I want out of life and which direction I'm supposed to be headed in.
>
> Or... maybe it's just the ADHD in ya, and Strattera will help you focus. I had some success with Strattera and I wish you luck.
>
> KDi in TX
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