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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ace on November 3, 2003, at 1:53:57
Lately I've been reading a lot of comments from Nardil users who are waiting for the 'kick-in'. 2 things I mentioned before and will mention again...
1. Time Of Onset- Remeber Nardil may take between 6-8 weeks to kick in. It might start kicking in at the 6 week mark and then need a couple more weeks to bring on the big effects.
2. DOSE- If 6-8 weeks at 60mg or lower is not rocking your world- I'd say you need a higher dose- 75-90mg. Many report nardil is only effective at higher doses...Love,
Ace.
Posted by JonW on November 3, 2003, at 18:16:10
In reply to For Nardil users, posted by ace on November 3, 2003, at 1:53:57
> 1. Time Of Onset- Remeber Nardil may take between 6-8 weeks to kick in. It might start kicking in at the 6 week mark and then need a couple more weeks to bring on the big effects.
I just wanted to add something that Dr. Liebowitz told me about the response time for Nardil. He informed me that in clinical trials Nardil is twice as effective at 12 weeks as it is at 6 weeks for social anxiety disorder. So basically, don't lose faith if you haven't been on it for more than a month or so. I suspect this would be true of most drugs for SAD, though. I mean, it's a disorder that takes a long time to fully recover from...
Jon :)
Posted by hockeygirlcanada on November 3, 2003, at 19:53:38
In reply to Re: For Nardil users, posted by JonW on November 3, 2003, at 18:16:10
Okay Ace, Nardil Heavyweight, some questions for you!
Parnate is too stimulating for me, as I have bad anxiety (GAD) with secondary depression. Headaches, and a feeling of speed after first dose and then crash about 2-3 hours later. I see my doc this week, and I am considering the Nardil route, as it is indicated for mixed anxiety and depression.
I am a single mom of a little boy, so I cannot take anything for sleep that would knock me out.
When you do get to sleep at night, do you wake up feeling refreshed or are you dragging your but out of bed?
Secondly, do you feel heavily sedated like a benzo would do (ativan, xanax, clonazepam) or just a calm once the drug is working?
I have to go back to work, and I am trying to find something I can live with. Right now I am treating the side effects, tylenol, every four hours, Clonazepam to sleep instead of for my anxiety, coffee to stay awake during the day (which doesn't always work).
I have been on Parnate for 2 months, I have read it is the third month that you feel the best, but unfortunately I don't have time to wait and see, then wash out for nardil..
What can you tell me? You did try parnate as well right?
Thanks!
Posted by RT on November 3, 2003, at 20:46:54
In reply to For Nardil users, posted by ace on November 3, 2003, at 1:53:57
> Lately I've been reading a lot of comments from Nardil users who are waiting for the 'kick-in'. 2 things I mentioned before and will mention again...
>
>
> 1. Time Of Onset- Remeber Nardil may take between 6-8 weeks to kick in. It might start kicking in at the 6 week mark and then need a couple more weeks to bring on the big effects.
>
>
> 2. DOSE- If 6-8 weeks at 60mg or lower is not rocking your world- I'd say you need a higher dose- 75-90mg. Many report nardil is only effective at higher doses...
>
>
>
> Love,
> Ace.I can see right now you are very well informed and I enjoy the posts that I read of yours , looking forward to success you have had
Posted by ace on November 3, 2003, at 20:55:44
In reply to Re: For Nardil users, posted by hockeygirlcanada on November 3, 2003, at 19:53:38
> Okay Ace, Nardil Heavyweight,
That's me!some questions for you!
> Parnate is too stimulating for me, as I have bad anxiety (GAD) with secondary depression. Headaches, and a feeling of speed after first dose and then crash about 2-3 hours later.Parnate was a bad experience for me- caused a depression and extreme fatigue.
I see my doc this week, and I am considering the Nardil route, as it is indicated for mixed anxiety and depression.You bet!
> I am a single mom of a little boy, so I cannot take anything for sleep that would knock me out.Understood.
> When you do get to sleep at night, do you wake up feeling refreshed or are you dragging your but out of bed?
I feel very refreshed and ready to face another day.
> Secondly, do you feel heavily sedated like a benzo would do (ativan, xanax, clonazepam) or just a calm once the drug is working?Once it has kicked in just very calm...a peaceful, confident calm. Before it kicks in, at 90mg it can knock me out sometimes- but I love this!
> I have to go back to work, and I am trying to find something I can live with. Right now I am treating the side effects, tylenol, every four hours, Clonazepam to sleep instead of for my anxiety, coffee to stay awake during the day (which doesn't always work).
> I have been on Parnate for 2 months, I have read it is the third month that you feel the best, but unfortunately I don't have time to wait and see, then wash out for nardil..I understand. I would cease the Parnate have a seven day washout then begin Nardil.
Here is a dosing schedule..
week 1. 45mg/day
week 2-6 - 60mg/day.then, if not kicked in go up to 90mg.
> What can you tell me? You did try parnate as well right?Yeah didn't help! Nardil is wonderful, but you have to be patient. When I start it, within a few days I notice some positive things. Within a few weeks it starts working a bit a then stops a bit. But after 6 weeks...BANG! Consistent Nardil Bliss! There are quite a few s/effects but they usually tend to go- just have to be patient. At 90mg I am so happy I don't care whether the s/effects go or not!
I think nardil is a great choice for you (especially since parnate didn't really work)- please ask any more questions! I'm happy to answer.
> Thanks!
Good luck!Ace.
Posted by ace on November 3, 2003, at 21:29:27
In reply to Re: For Nardil users, posted by RT on November 3, 2003, at 20:46:54
> I can see right now you are very well informed and I enjoy the posts that I read of yours , looking forward to success you have hadThanks! Let me know if you have any questions!
Take care,
Ace.
Posted by BigDave on November 4, 2003, at 5:11:42
In reply to Re: For Nardil users » hockeygirlcanada, posted by ace on November 3, 2003, at 20:55:44
Hi Ace/fellow Nardil users,
This is my first post..
I've been reading your posts with interest and encouragement as I've been giving some thought lately to going on Nardil.
Unfortunately I would have to do this on my own and buy the medication online as my doctor here in the UK has said it's not possible to prescribe Nardil for the usual reasons which I won't go into.
Anyway.. I have social phobia and had it for like 7 years bad now, tried a variety of treatments (SSRI's, beta blockers, benzo's, tranquilizers) and nothing works. At the moment I'm using alcohol and valium (not good idea I know) to manage the anxiety of social contact.
I'm reading everywhere that Nardil is the thing for social phobia and has the best chance of working, but I'm *really* worried about the diet restrictions. I'm a vegetarian and eat a lot of cheese and some other stuff on the restriction list which could be a big problem.
What I'd like to know is, how restrictive/serious is the diet issue? How do you know certain stuff you're eating won't have some interaction with Nardil?
And finally, drinking... I sorta have a drink minor problem. I'm dependent on alcohol for any kind of social interaction. I'm not a heavy drink, and one can of beer (2 at most) usually fixes me fine each day. But would this be a problem with taking Nardil? I'm sure I wouldn't need to drink if Nardil works for me but until it does I would need to.
Any advice would be greatfully received!
BigDave
Posted by hockeygirlcanada on November 4, 2003, at 7:23:51
In reply to Re: For Nardil users » ace, posted by BigDave on November 4, 2003, at 5:11:42
> Hi Ace/fellow Nardil users,
>
> This is my first post..
>
> I've been reading your posts with interest and encouragement as I've been giving some thought lately to going on Nardil.
>
> Unfortunately I would have to do this on my own and buy the medication online as my doctor here in the UK has said it's not possible to prescribe Nardil for the usual reasons which I won't go into.
>
> Anyway.. I have social phobia and had it for like 7 years bad now, tried a variety of treatments (SSRI's, beta blockers, benzo's, tranquilizers) and nothing works. At the moment I'm using alcohol and valium (not good idea I know) to manage the anxiety of social contact.
>
> I'm reading everywhere that Nardil is the thing for social phobia and has the best chance of working, but I'm *really* worried about the diet restrictions. I'm a vegetarian and eat a lot of cheese and some other stuff on the restriction list which could be a big problem.
>
> What I'd like to know is, how restrictive/serious is the diet issue? How do you know certain stuff you're eating won't have some interaction with Nardil?
There is a new diet list, I have it bookmarked, and can send it to you, some cheeses are okay, but not beer, although every person is different. Liquor is fine, but the way beer is made could cause the hypertensive crisis.> And finally, drinking... I sorta have a drink minor problem. I'm dependent on alcohol for any kind of social interaction. I'm not a heavy drink, and one can of beer (2 at most) usually fixes me fine each day. But would this be a problem with taking Nardil? I'm sure I wouldn't need to drink if Nardil works for me but until it does I would need to.
>
> Any advice would be greatfully received!
>
> BigDave
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by RT on November 4, 2003, at 20:23:20
In reply to Re: For Nardil users » RT, posted by ace on November 3, 2003, at 21:29:27
Have you ever had any sexual problems on nardil, im experiencing problems with delayed ejaculation, or none at all ! seems like i cant ever reach that point. I am hoping this is something temporary because I really think nardil is going to be the one that works for my depression and social phobia.
Thanks !
Posted by ace on November 5, 2003, at 23:43:57
In reply to Re: For Nardil users » ace, posted by BigDave on November 4, 2003, at 5:11:42
> Hi Ace/fellow Nardil users,
>
> This is my first post..
>
> I've been reading your posts with interest and encouragement as I've been giving some thought lately to going on Nardil.
>
> Unfortunately I would have to do this on my own and buy the medication online as my doctor here in the UK has said it's not possible to prescribe Nardil for the usual reasons which I won't go into.The usual reasons which are preety stupid right?!
If you get it make sure you get the old formulation- the one wich is not gluten free.>
> Anyway.. I have social phobia and had it for like 7 years bad now, tried a variety of treatments (SSRI's, beta blockers, benzo's, tranquilizers) and nothing works. At the moment I'm using alcohol and valium (not good idea I know) to manage the anxiety of social contact.For my severe anxiety I was using large amounts of alcohol too...drinking heavily 5 or 6 days a week. Since I started Nardil almost a year ago I've drank on 1 occasion only! And my benzo use on Nardil basically stops- instead of taking them every second day I need once every three months on Nardil!
> I'm reading everywhere that Nardil is the thing for social phobia and has the best chance of working,This is true.
but I'm *really* worried about the diet restrictions. I'm a vegetarian and eat a lot of cheese and some other stuff on the restriction list which could be a big problem.
I'm sure you could manage with the diet even being a vegetarian. Processed cheese is fine.
>
> What I'd like to know is, how restrictive/serious is the diet issue?Well it's overrated IMO. It's quite a small list and a lot of things which used to be 'no-no's' have been taken off the list. It's not restrictive but it is serious if you eat a block of cheese!
How do you know certain stuff you're eating won't have some interaction with Nardil?You can get a special list- I personally don't even follow it apart from the cheese issue. I've only ever had one problem. I should be more focused but!
> And finally, drinking... I sorta have a drink minor problem. I'm dependent on alcohol for any kind of social interaction. I'm not a heavy drink, and one can of beer (2 at most) usually fixes me fine each day. But would this be a problem with taking Nardil?I'm not sure you will need it when the Nardil kicks in. But 2 cans or bottled beer would be fine...just don't drink tap beer.
I'm sure I wouldn't need to drink if Nardil works for me but until it does I would need to.
>
> Any advice would be greatfully received!
>
> BigDave
>
>
>
> Good luck Big Dave- I like that name!Ace.
>
Posted by BigDave on November 6, 2003, at 19:50:43
In reply to Re: For Nardil users » BigDave, posted by ace on November 5, 2003, at 23:43:57
Thanks for the reply Ace, I'm feeling better about trying it now. I found a supplier in UK for Nardil too this week.
Posted by hockeygirlcanada on November 6, 2003, at 21:10:55
In reply to Re: For Nardil users, posted by JonW on November 3, 2003, at 18:16:10
Day time drowsiness with Nardil? That is what is happening with my parnate, had to go down to 10mg, I have been given the option to washout and try nardil, as I feel agitated at night, and I have chronic anxiety (GAD) Parnate is like a burst of adrenaline, and then crash, even at 10 mg. Waking up with headache, I don't care about insomnia, I can get something for that, or weight gain, Just day time fatigue, energy.
This is a big factor because I have to return to work, and from what I read, although sleep on Nardil is not long, you feel refreshed in the am.
Maybe my increased anxiety is due to the coffee I have to drink to stay awake on parnate.
This is totally up to me, my doctor is pretty awesome, but to wash out to only feel tired all day on something else is not really what I want to do,
Thanks guys
Posted by JonW on November 6, 2003, at 22:57:45
In reply to Re: For Nardil users, posted by hockeygirlcanada on November 6, 2003, at 21:10:55
> Day time drowsiness with Nardil?
I've been on both Parnate and Nardil. It seems to me that parnate would be less likely to cause those problems, but obviously not in your case. The one thing I can say is that Nardil is much smoother and feels a lot more natural. I mean, it's not so up and down like Parnate. If the up and down and stimulant-like effects are what's causing the problem for you, then Nardil may be an apropriate solution. If you're still fatigued on Nardil, you could talk about adding something like Provigil. I'm not sure how safe that is, but I've heard of people on that combination before. There's always moclobemide which is unlikely to cause fatigue, but it also seems unlikely you would get the same therapeutic response from it that you'd get from Nardil or Parnate.
Jon :)
Posted by hockeygirlcanada on November 7, 2003, at 7:08:36
In reply to Re: For Nardil users » hockeygirlcanada, posted by JonW on November 6, 2003, at 22:57:45
I am not knocking parnate, for my secondary depression it is the first med that has helped, but anxiety is the main concern, and the agitation I feel is not good, and i am not so sure it is a s/e that will go away, but how the drug should act on your system.
I am patient with letting drugs work, it has been almost 7 years so what is another couple of months if it is going to improve my life.
One question, did you ever try parnate?
Posted by JonW on November 7, 2003, at 8:37:03
In reply to Re: For Nardil users, posted by hockeygirlcanada on November 7, 2003, at 7:08:36
> One question, did you ever try parnate?
I was on Parnate, but had to discontinue it for the agitation, irritability, and the rollercoaster of ups and downs throughout the day. It was the most mood elevating drug I've ever been on, though. I didn't have any of those problems with Nardil, and it had a greater effect on my social anxiety. It can take awhile to really kick in, but if you respond like Ace, it's worth the wait. Unfortunately, I was forced to stop due to side-effects.
Good Luck,
Jon :)
Posted by hockeygirlcanada on November 7, 2003, at 9:17:03
In reply to Re: For Nardil users » hockeygirlcanada, posted by JonW on November 7, 2003, at 8:37:03
> > One question, did you ever try parnate?
>
> I was on Parnate, but had to discontinue it for the agitation, irritability, and the rollercoaster of ups and downs throughout the day. It was the most mood elevating drug I've ever been on, though. I didn't have any of those problems with Nardil, and it had a greater effect on my social anxiety. It can take awhile to really kick in, but if you respond like Ace, it's worth the wait. Unfortunately, I was forced to stop due to side-effects.
>
> Good Luck,
> Jon :)Thank you so much Jon, for taking the time to respond to my post, I truly appreciate it.
Was it parnate or Nardil you had to stop due to side effects? Was it parnate that was the most mood elevating drug?
Thanks again,
All the best
Jill
Posted by JonW on November 7, 2003, at 15:43:06
In reply to Re: For Nardil users » JonW, posted by hockeygirlcanada on November 7, 2003, at 9:17:03
> Was it parnate or Nardil you had to stop due to side effects?
Nardil. I experienced some weird side-effects and complete anorgasmia, but the deal-breaker was that I simply couldn't sleep on the med. I tried everything, but I could never get more than a couple hours of sleep. Great med for depression and anxiety, though.
>Was it parnate that was the most mood elevating drug?
Yes. It was sort of like a drug of abuse. I didn't abuse it or anything, but I could understand how someone might.
Jon :)
This is the end of the thread.
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