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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by utopizen on September 4, 2003, at 18:45:54
?
Posted by btnd on September 6, 2003, at 4:44:32
In reply to Anyone try Xyrem??, posted by utopizen on September 4, 2003, at 18:45:54
Yes. What information would you like?
Posted by utopizen on September 6, 2003, at 16:21:52
In reply to Re: Anyone try Xyrem?? » utopizen, posted by btnd on September 6, 2003, at 4:44:32
> Yes. What information would you like?
How'd it effect your sleep, alertness, productivity, possible mental disorders, etc.? How long did you sleep? 6 or 8 hours? What encouraged your doc to try it, and how long did you notice a benefit (many report a benefit after 8 weeks of nightly use, I noticed it the next day)
Posted by btnd on September 6, 2003, at 23:39:27
In reply to Re: Anyone try Xyrem??, posted by utopizen on September 6, 2003, at 16:21:52
> How'd it effect your sleep,
There is not a single treatment better for sleep than Xyrem, I guarantee you ;) The only drawback is you need to take two doses during the night, but if you'd try it - you'd see that it's not a hassle.
>alertness, productivity, possible mental disorders, etc.?
Well..its hard to say. I'm not so sleepy during the day as I used to (maybe I had symptoms of narcolepsy). As a result, I can say that I'm more productive.
>How long did you sleep? 6 or 8 hours?
>What encouraged your doc to try it, and how long did you notice a benefit (many report a benefit after 8 weeks of nightly use, I noticed it the next day)
I encouraged him ;) just like with almost any medication - I dig the stuff, browse through the studies/abstracts (especially on PubMed) - print them out and show them. And then we decide whether it should be a good treatment.
Actually, I've noticed few benefits of this medicine. First of all it works for insomnia and narcolepsy. But used during the day at a lower dosage it is a great antidepressant and social/general anxiety disorder smasher ;) Unfortunately it has a very short half-life - about 1.5 hours, but Orphan is working on the extended type form. But just like someone pointed out - first of all they should drop the price. It is outrageous.
Posted by Questionmark on September 7, 2003, at 22:36:34
In reply to Re: Anyone try Xyrem??, posted by btnd on September 6, 2003, at 23:39:27
i have not tried it.
What kinda of things could it be reasonably asked to help with (like to my psychiatrist) besides insomnia? Would depression or SP/SA be reasonable things to ask to use it for?
Posted by utopizen on September 8, 2003, at 1:31:20
In reply to Re: Xyrem, posted by Questionmark on September 7, 2003, at 22:36:34
> i have not tried it.
> What kinda of things could it be reasonably asked to help with (like to my psychiatrist) besides insomnia? Would depression or SP/SA be reasonable things to ask to use it for?
>It depends. If you somehow find yourself less anxious after a restful sleep or something, maybe. Or if it was associated with fatigue. But I'm skeptical that would happen. Plus, you don't want to mix Xyrem and Klonopin too much...
Posted by Questionmark on September 9, 2003, at 21:51:15
In reply to Re: Xyrem, posted by utopizen on September 8, 2003, at 1:31:20
> > i have not tried it.
> > What kinda of things could it be reasonably asked to help with (like to my psychiatrist) besides insomnia? Would depression or SP/SA be reasonable things to ask to use it for?>
>
> It depends. If you somehow find yourself less anxious after a restful sleep or something, maybe. Or if it was associated with fatigue. But I'm skeptical that would happen. Plus, you don't want to mix Xyrem and Klonopin too much...Nah yeah i dont really find myself that much less anxious after restful sleep or whatever. i'm not on Klonopin. Just Nardil right now. So Xyrem's only good for anxiety & depression for like an hour or so while it's working? (Thanks.)
Posted by utopizen on September 10, 2003, at 20:59:36
In reply to Re: Xyrem, posted by Questionmark on September 9, 2003, at 21:51:15
> Nah yeah i dont really find myself that much less anxious after restful sleep or whatever. i'm not on Klonopin. Just Nardil right now. So Xyrem's only good for anxiety & depression for like an hour or so while it's working? (Thanks.)
>I wouldn't even think of it if you're on Nardil. Alcohol, at all, is a no-no. Klonopin, or any benzo, is something you couldn't be on at all. Not even "as needed." I'm assuming that you've tried Klonopin at least "as needed" before trying Nardil, unless your depression is more of an issue. No CNS depressants (and the majority of meds mentioned on this board are, including Nardil) should be used with Xyrem.
Unfortunately for me, I spent a good 18 mos. trying everything from Buspar to ADs to Neurontin to Gabitril (which made me psychotic for a night) to antihistamines to geez...
I believe I exausted everything, except Straterra b/c it's new. Klonopin worked great for my social anxiety, but I can't use it anymore b/c I'd rather focus on my idiopathic hypersomnolence than social anxiety. (What's so great about being social if you slur your speech b/c you're so tired?)
Today is like Day 4 for me on Xyrem. I feel awake all day long.
To answer your question, yes, Xyrem is basically 90 minutes in its duration. About 1 1/2 to 3 1/2 hours is when one must re-dose on it during the night, typically using an alarm clock to do so. It's commonly reported that it awakens patients early so they only receive 6 hours of sleep, yet it's so effective as inducing restorative sleep that they feel better than if they slept for twice as long.
As far as daytime use, even if it were available in a 6-8 hour time-release formulation in a few years... I don't think it's a good idea. Dosing is not the issue, the side effect profile is. Vomitting, incontinence, etc. are common side effects (and are thought to be dose related, so one typically can adjust their dose accordingly).
Not to mention it's still a sedative/hypnotic, so think about the implications on one's driving, etc.-- it ain't no tranquillizer, this is a sedative at any dose, I don't care what Internet bunk is out there claiming otherwise. It's just as stupid to drive a car drunk, if not worse, no matter how smart one thinks they are about dosing.
Posted by Questionmark on September 11, 2003, at 14:16:31
In reply to Re: Xyrem-- clearing up the daytime use bunk » Questionmark, posted by utopizen on September 10, 2003, at 20:59:36
> > Nah yeah i dont really find myself that much less anxious after restful sleep or whatever. i'm not on Klonopin. Just Nardil right now. So Xyrem's only good for anxiety & depression for like an hour or so while it's working? (Thanks.)
> >> I wouldn't even think of it if you're on Nardil. Alcohol, at all, is a no-no. Klonopin, or any benzo, is something you couldn't be on at all. Not even "as needed." I'm assuming that you've tried Klonopin at least "as needed" before trying Nardil, unless your depression is more of an issue. No CNS depressants (and the majority of meds mentioned on this board are, including Nardil) should be used with Xyrem.
>
> Unfortunately for me, I spent a good 18 mos. trying everything from Buspar to ADs to Neurontin to Gabitril (which made me psychotic for a night) to antihistamines to geez...
>
> I believe I exausted everything, except Straterra b/c it's new. Klonopin worked great for my social anxiety, but I can't use it anymore b/c I'd rather focus on my idiopathic hypersomnolence than social anxiety. (What's so great about being social if you slur your speech b/c you're so tired?)
>
> Today is like Day 4 for me on Xyrem. I feel awake all day long.
>
> To answer your question, yes, Xyrem is basically 90 minutes in its duration. About 1 1/2 to 3 1/2 hours is when one must re-dose on it during the night, typically using an alarm clock to do so. It's commonly reported that it awakens patients early so they only receive 6 hours of sleep, yet it's so effective as inducing restorative sleep that they feel better than if they slept for twice as long.
>
> As far as daytime use, even if it were available in a 6-8 hour time-release formulation in a few years... I don't think it's a good idea. Dosing is not the issue, the side effect profile is. Vomitting, incontinence, etc. are common side effects (and are thought to be dose related, so one typically can adjust their dose accordingly).
>
> Not to mention it's still a sedative/hypnotic, so think about the implications on one's driving, etc.-- it ain't no tranquillizer, this is a sedative at any dose, I don't care what Internet bunk is out there claiming otherwise. It's just as stupid to drive a car drunk, if not worse, no matter how smart one thinks they are about dosing.Thanks for your reply.
i don't disagree that Xyrem is a full-fledged sedative and more than just a tranquilizer. That's a good point to make. But i have to somewhat disagree or at least question some of your other statements. For instance, it's probably not a good idea to use Klonopin with Nardil, but i have heard of it being done and it's not necessarily particularly dangerous (unless you already have excessive hypotension or something). i personally probably couldn't handle that combo but, yeah. (i have tried Klonopin alone in the past). Also, alcohol is not contraindicated with Nardil-- only certain ones, mostly tap beer. i mean they probably say that it's best NOT to use alcohol, especially in excess, with Nardil, but they say the same with SSRIs (why is this by the way? is it becuz it can reduce the effectiveness, or can overload the serotonin system, or just because it sounds good and safe to say that?). Whatta you think on that? But i think stimulants would be more of a danger to use with MAOIs than depressants, and even they are cautiously used in low doses. But i'm sure youre probably right that it's not a good idea to combine Xyrem with Nardil. i was mostly just curious about Xyrem alone or soemthing though. Anyway, there's my 2 cents. Sorry/thanks. Take care.
Posted by utopizen on September 11, 2003, at 18:14:23
In reply to Re: Xyrem-- clearing up the daytime use bunk, posted by Questionmark on September 11, 2003, at 14:16:31
I was referring to the combination of alcohol or Klonopin with Xyrem, not Nardil. And also the combo of Nardil with Xyrem, also not exactly an established, or safe, thing to try.
The result may be respiratory depression, as these are all CNS depressants.
As for GBL, bear in mind that's something to avoid-- I don't think anyone's case of fibro is severe enough to warrant the use of medicine that is *never* tested for dose potency, unlike FDA-approved drugs. Thus, this could kill you. It may sound harsh to realize $300/mo. of a drug is so you have peace in mind in its potency, but I think it's worth that price to know it's not going to kill you. Or give you tardive dyskinsea, a frequent occurency in GHB overdosage or daytime (continious) use.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 12, 2003, at 3:52:51
In reply to Re: Xyrem-- clearing up the daytime use bunk, posted by utopizen on September 11, 2003, at 18:14:23
> As for GBL, bear in mind that's something to avoid-- I don't think anyone's case of fibro is severe enough to warrant the use of medicine that is *never* tested for dose potency, unlike FDA-approved drugs.
That's why you only buy it from those far-too-hard-to-find chemical suppliers which actually guarantee 99.99% purity -- then there's no question as to your dose.
This is the end of the thread.
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