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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Nolan on September 4, 2003, at 13:39:53
Hello, I'm new to the group. Been looking for something like this for quite some time. THank you for this resource.
I'm going to a pdoc in 10 days, and I would like to argue for a Parnate script. I've just read a lot about how these are very powerful, affect multiple neurotransmitters (not just serotonin) etc.
I have tried Paxil, which was somewhat effective but gave me hairloss (stopped that sucker cold turkey, came through it ok.) Paxil drained my wallet nicely too.
Also tried Zoloft, which didn't do anything (except for aforementioned wallet effect).
Also I've tried Klonopin (got mail order from Namibia via internet) and that works great but the rumors of permanent memory loss from long term usage frighten me.
I need something powerful, and it needs to work. I feel like I'm at the end of my rope here. Going on 24 years with this stupid extreme shyness (well, can't really count those first couple years as a toddler). Please let me know what you think. Thanks.
Nolan
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 4, 2003, at 17:50:12
In reply to Are the MAOIs the big-guns or what? Avoidant pers., posted by Nolan on September 4, 2003, at 13:39:53
Nardil or Parnate may be helpful, though I've tried Nardil and it had no effect whatsoever on me -- my primarily problems are social anxiety, depression, panic, agoraphobia, avoidant personality, obsessive-compulsive personality, and ADD. What you said about long-term memory loss with Klonopin? That shouldn't even be considered an issue. The majority of people taking Klonopin will have no difficulties at all with memory; a few may have some very minor problems with short-term memory, but usually nothing to get overly concerned about. There is even one study that suggests Klonopin may help to prevent dementia/Alzheimer's! I've been taking a very high dosage of Klonopin for years, and I find I can think *more* clearly while taking it because of the lack of anxiety which would normally preoccupy my mind.
A very great combination for a lot of people on this board with social phobia, it seems, is a benzodiazepine (almost always Klonopin, occasionally Xanax or Ativan) in combination with an amphetamine (Adderall, Dexedrine, DextroStat, Desoxyn). The former rids you of any anxiety you may have, and the latter is pro-social -- i.e. it gives you motivation to seek out and talk to people, go to parties, make friends, etc.
FWIW, Ultram, Klonopin, and DextroStat work beautifully for me, and my SP is extremely severe.
Posted by cosis on September 4, 2003, at 20:25:51
In reply to Are the MAOIs the big-guns or what? Avoidant pers., posted by Nolan on September 4, 2003, at 13:39:53
> Hello, I'm new to the group. Been looking for something like this for quite some time. THank you for this resource.
>
> I'm going to a pdoc in 10 days, and I would like to argue for a Parnate script. I've just read a lot about how these are very powerful, affect multiple neurotransmitters (not just serotonin) etc.
>
> I have tried Paxil, which was somewhat effective but gave me hairloss (stopped that sucker cold turkey, came through it ok.) Paxil drained my wallet nicely too.
>
> Also tried Zoloft, which didn't do anything (except for aforementioned wallet effect).
>
> Also I've tried Klonopin (got mail order from Namibia via internet) and that works great but the rumors of permanent memory loss from long term usage frighten me.
>
> I need something powerful, and it needs to work. I feel like I'm at the end of my rope here. Going on 24 years with this stupid extreme shyness (well, can't really count those first couple years as a toddler). Please let me know what you think. Thanks.
>
> Nolan
>Nardil killed my depression and social anxiety, it is the best :)
Posted by jonh kimble on September 4, 2003, at 20:38:09
In reply to Are the MAOIs the big-guns or what? Avoidant pers., posted by Nolan on September 4, 2003, at 13:39:53
For most people nardil and parnate are great for sp, if not the best. Nardil is generally recommended over parnate, although if you have more add like symptoms parnate might be better because it is more stimulating. Ame is right about about the clonazepam, i wouldnt worry about memory problems. Neither nardil nor parnate worked for me though and im now trying mirapex and take clonazepam which definitly works.
Posted by Francesco on September 5, 2003, at 6:35:30
In reply to Re: Are the MAOIs the big-guns or what? Avoidant pers., posted by jonh kimble on September 4, 2003, at 20:38:09
Pardon me for my intrusion. My psychiatrist once suggested Parnate for my ADHD but I refused to take it, mainly because in Italy where I live is available only linked to an antipsychotic (trifluoperazine, brand name Stelazine). Does anyone know how this linking can affect the side-effects profile of Parnate ? Who do I have to expect if I take it ?
Posted by linkadge on September 5, 2003, at 8:05:16
In reply to Re: Are the MAOIs the big-guns or what? Avoidant pers. » jonh kimble, posted by Francesco on September 5, 2003, at 6:35:30
The amphetamine like action of parnate can exasperate the condition of anyone who has a propensity towards psychosis. The two combined
may be a way to prevent this, infact it may even be more effective than parnate alone.In canada there is a combination of amitrypaline and an antipsychotic, and in certain depression it is very effective.
Linkadge
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 5, 2003, at 8:23:24
In reply to Re: Are the MAOIs the big-guns or what? Avoidant pers. » jonh kimble, posted by Francesco on September 5, 2003, at 6:35:30
Though I don't know the doses of the trifluoperazine/tranylcipromine in the medication you're describing, I'd have to assume that the neuroleptic would dull the effects of the MAOI. Tranylcipromine is said to be among the more stimulating MAOIs (all we have here in the U.S. to compare it to are phenelzine and selegiline), presumably due to active amphetamine metabolites, as well as the MAO inhibition factor. I would think that this has quite a bit to do with increased/improved/altered functioning of the dopaminergic system, and antipsychotics are dopamine antagonists... not to mention that the old, "dirty" neuroleptics like Stelazine, Thorazine, Mellaril, et al carry with them a host of horrible side effects.
But anyway, do you have any idea what the dose of each drug in the pill is? Or whether there are any other MAOIs available in Italy? I'm sure the tranylcipromine/trifluoperazine combo isn't the only one... there are so many of them.
Posted by Tepiaca on September 5, 2003, at 8:47:09
In reply to Re: Are the MAOIs the big-guns or what? Avoidant pers., posted by linkadge on September 5, 2003, at 8:05:16
Here in Mexico we have , this drug , is a combination of amitryptiline , diazepam , and an anptypsichotic perfenazine .I used to take for SP , although I was not happy with the risk of a possible TD , so I stopped , but it helped me anyway .
Tepiaca
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 5, 2003, at 8:59:34
In reply to Re: Are the MAOIs the big-guns or what? Avoidant pers., posted by Tepiaca on September 5, 2003, at 8:47:09
Wow, all three meds in one, huh? Here in the States we have combinations of perphenazine and amitriptyline available under the trade names Etrafon and Triavil. No diazepam in those, but there's also a combination of amitriptyline and chlordiazepoxide (a benzo -- Librium) available, called Limbitrol.
Posted by Francesco on September 5, 2003, at 9:59:02
In reply to Re: Are the MAOIs the big-guns or what? Avoidant pers. » Tepiaca, posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 5, 2003, at 8:59:34
Once there were also Aurorix and Umoril(RIMA) but now they aren't available anymore (don't know why). I know for sure Parmodanil (Parnate + Stelazine) is the only IMAO available here but unfortunately I don't know how much Stelazine there is in the compound. The psychiatrist who suggested the med 'forgot' to tell me about this particul issue, I discovered that there is an antipsychotic in Parmodanil reading a thread posted by Anna Laura a couple of years ago. Anyway I don't think to have psychotic features (the psychiatrist suggested Parmodalin for ADHD problems since I could not tolerate anymore SSRIs and TCAs) and I'm not sure I want to experience antipsychotic side-effects + diet restrictions + MAOIs side-effects.
This morning I've discovered it's possibile to find Nardil in the Vatican Pharmacy (I live in Rome so it wouldn't be a big deal) but I don't anything about the price (it could be very very expensive) and eventually how to find a psychiatrist who would prescribe it. Currently I'm on Prozac (10th day) but the only thing I want to do is sleeping and reading psycho-babble threads.
Best wishes to everyone
Posted by Questionmark on September 6, 2003, at 1:50:03
In reply to Re: Are the MAOIs the big-guns or what? Avoidant pers. » Ame Sans Vie, posted by Francesco on September 5, 2003, at 9:59:02
Question: i've never tried the combo of a benzo and stimulant together (though one or the other i have many times, esp. the latter). But while stims have often been useful for SP/SA for a short time after i take one (couple hours or so), i can't understand how they would be useful on a continual basis. Is this combo really that effective, or just while the stim is working (for the two or so hours)? Thanks.
Francesco, i'm not sure but i wonder if having the antipsychotic along with the Parnate might actually help prevent hypertensive reactions (since it would block many dopamine and/or norepinephrine receptors). i like your comment of "but the only thing I want to do is sleeping and reading psycho-babble threads" -- i can identify with that. Good luck to you. Man, i wonder if having SP in Italy would be even worse-- being surrounded by all those outgoing Italians. Like i'd think that living with SP in say, England, might be a little easier. i wonder. But, i dunno, that could just be a moronic thought. Anyway, good luck.
Oh, to Nolan & others: i was on Parnate for a couple months recently and i'm sorry to say it didn't really help my SP at all-- may have even made it worse. i'm on about 2 weeks of Nardil though and it's helped considerably. Just me. good lucks.
Posted by francesco on September 6, 2003, at 7:38:26
In reply to Re:, posted by Questionmark on September 6, 2003, at 1:50:03
Hi Questionmark I think you may be right about the antypsichotic add-on. In fact the doctor minimized the MAOIs diet-restrictions when I asked about it.
Social Phobia isn't my main problem but occurs to me when I'm on meds (Anafranil) which I take for ADHD (and maybe OCD).
Today I've skipped my Prozac dose and took Sam-E. I can feel my emotions coming back even if I don't know which is the cause (maybe both).
I'm consering to try MAOIs in the future and I was wondering if you experienced sexual dysfunctions while on it. I've red some posts about it and my general impression is that if they are they are less severe than SSRI's ones.
Is that correct ?Thanks and good luck
(yeah, I think that GB should be a good place for social phobics ... and with all that drinking nobody cares about you ;-)
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 6, 2003, at 8:37:30
In reply to Re:, posted by Questionmark on September 6, 2003, at 1:50:03
> Question: i've never tried the combo of a benzo and stimulant together (though one or the other i have many times, esp. the latter). But while stims have often been useful for SP/SA for a short time after i take one (couple hours or so), i can't understand how they would be useful on a continual basis. Is this combo really that effective, or just while the stim is working (for the two or so hours)? Thanks.
Hmm... two hours? I find that a single 15mg dose of dextroamphetamine IR begins working in 30 minutes and peaks for about five hours. Maybe it's just my metabolism, maybe yours, maybe differences between brands... who knows. Either way, this probably wouldn't be such a great combination for you unless you use the timed-release forms, which are inferior, IMHO.
Posted by Questionmark on September 7, 2003, at 22:31:12
In reply to Re: » Questionmark, posted by francesco on September 6, 2003, at 7:38:26
Francesco, is your problem just ("just") ADHD and/or OCD? Because if so it seems odd that you have been taking these different antidepressants and considering an MAOI. Just wondering.
Parnate is definitely usually pro-sexual. Nardil generally seems to have considerable anorgasmia as a side effect-- seems comparable to the SSRIs from what people say but i think it's not quite as bad as the SSRIs.
> "(yeah, I think that GB should be a good place for social phobics ... and with all that drinking nobody cares about you ;-)" . Hah, yeah, good point.Ame Sans Vie, thanks for your input on stims.
Posted by Francesco on September 9, 2003, at 14:27:02
In reply to Re:, posted by Questionmark on September 7, 2003, at 22:31:12
>Francesco, is your problem just ("just") ADHD >and/or OCD?
I don't have OCD at the moment but I can remember that I had OCD when I was a child. Moreover when I take antidepressants I tend to devolop some OCD features (and sometimes some OCD syntoms in the first phase of the treatment). Therefore I probably have some OCD traits ... but I don't have compulsions and/or obsessions.
>Because if so it seems odd that you have been >taking these different antidepressants and >considering an MAOI. Just wondering.
I was considering a MAOI because the last psychiatrist I went suggested it. The problem is, as I have posted somewhere that the only MAOI available in Italy is a compound linking Parnate and Trifluoperazine (brand name Stelazine). The last should be an antipsychotic even if my encyclopedia puts it in the "anxiolitics class" with benzos (and it's the only fenotiazin in that class ... I can't understand this point). Therefore I'm not so sure that the compound would be pro-sexual and I'm scared of the consequences in the long run ...
Any input ? : )
Bye !
Posted by Questionmark on September 11, 2003, at 14:01:57
In reply to Re: » Questionmark, posted by Francesco on September 9, 2003, at 14:27:02
> >Francesco, is your problem just ("just") ADHD >and/or OCD?
>
> I don't have OCD at the moment but I can remember that I had OCD when I was a child. Moreover when I take antidepressants I tend to devolop some OCD features (and sometimes some OCD syntoms in the first phase of the treatment). Therefore I probably have some OCD traits ... but I don't have compulsions and/or obsessions.
>
> >Because if so it seems odd that you have been >taking these different antidepressants and >considering an MAOI. Just wondering.
>
> I was considering a MAOI because the last psychiatrist I went suggested it. The problem is, as I have posted somewhere that the only MAOI available in Italy is a compound linking Parnate and Trifluoperazine (brand name Stelazine). The last should be an antipsychotic even if my encyclopedia puts it in the "anxiolitics class" with benzos (and it's the only fenotiazin in that class ... I can't understand this point). Therefore I'm not so sure that the compound would be pro-sexual and I'm scared of the consequences in the long run ...
>
> Any input ? : )
>
> Bye !Yeah that's weird if it's the only phenothiazine considered an anxiolytic. i dunno. But yeah, i guess it would depend on the relative doses, but i imagine that this (or any) phenothiazine/ antipsychotic would negate any prosexual effects from the Parnate-- good chance may even reduce libido, but i'm not sure. That's just my guess. Plus yeah you also might still run the risk of long-term side effects such as Tardive Dyskinesia. Good luck.
Posted by Francesco on September 20, 2003, at 12:46:58
In reply to Re: Are the MAOIs the big-guns or what? Avoidant pers. » Francesco , posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 5, 2003, at 8:23:24
Sorry to resume this old post. I managed to discover the doses of trifluoperazine/tranylcipromine in Parmodalin. For 10mg of tranylcipromine (Parnate) 1mg of trifluoperazine ... I think Parnate reccomended dosage is 20-40 mg each day so it should be 2-4 mg trifluoperazine ... Can this dosage of trifluoperazine cause side-effects (short and long term)? Thanks !
Posted by Tepiaca on September 24, 2003, at 9:00:16
In reply to Re: Are the MAOIs the big-guns or what? Avoidant pers. » Ame Sans Vie, posted by Francesco on September 20, 2003, at 12:46:58
I did what you are trying to do with another medicine that contains an old antypshicotic.
In my personal experencience I dont recomend you to do that. Maybe you shoul try to import the Parnate from another country , is safer .
I still have this movements on my body , which began when I started taking this drug that has perfenazine . Even now that Im not taking it , the movements are still here , I stopped the medicine one year ago but this side effect is not gone , dont know why , maybe Im gonna have it for the rest of my life , I dont knowGood luck Franceso
This is the end of the thread.
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