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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Francesco on August 23, 2003, at 6:28:27
the first time I tried Anafrail I didn't experience any side-effect. the reason was I didn't know that ADs have side-effects and therefore I didn't notice them. for example I was constipated but I didn't know I was and therefore I didn't suffer from it. what's my point ? I think that we are too concentrated about side-effects and that this attitude make side-effects worse. take for example sexual dysfunctions. I didn't want to say that these meds don't have this kind of side-effects ... but if you think all time long during sex something like "I suffer from delayed ejaculation" it's very likely that this problem will get worse and worse and that you won't enjoy sex. it's not the side-effects in themselves but our perception of them. I don't know if this post could *help* anyone.
Posted by JonW on August 23, 2003, at 9:22:51
In reply to some thoughts about side-effects, posted by Francesco on August 23, 2003, at 6:28:27
> the first time I tried Anafrail I didn't experience any side-effect. the reason was I didn't know that ADs have side-effects and therefore I didn't notice them. for example I was constipated but I didn't know I was and therefore I didn't suffer from it. what's my point ? I think that we are too concentrated about side-effects and that this attitude make side-effects worse. take for example sexual dysfunctions. I didn't want to say that these meds don't have this kind of side-effects ... but if you think all time long during sex something like "I suffer from delayed ejaculation" it's very likely that this problem will get worse and worse and that you won't enjoy sex. it's not the side-effects in themselves but our perception of them. I don't know if this post could *help* anyone.
Side-effects are definitely real, but how we view them can impact the emotional toll they take on us. Why cope with them, though, if more tolerable alternatives are available? I don't know what your experience on the SSRIs has been, but for me, it was complete anorgasmia, emotional blunting, and fatigue. It didn't matter what I focused on. Moclobemide has been a godsend for me.
Jon
Posted by francesco on August 23, 2003, at 12:04:35
In reply to Re: some thoughts about side-effects » Francesco , posted by JonW on August 23, 2003, at 9:22:51
I had had similar experiences with SSRI (Paxil and Celexa above all, Prozac was not that bad). At the moment I think my previuous post was quite stupid and unuseful (I really don't know why I wrote it). Anyway my pdoc yesterday precribed me moclobemide but my pharmacist says it's not available anymore in Italy ... If this is true (my pdoc was quite sursprised about it) I think I will try again Prozac and if it doesn't work I'll have to come back to the good old Anafranil. Very glad you're doing fine on it (even envious ;-)
Posted by DSCH on August 23, 2003, at 14:17:41
In reply to Re: some thoughts about side-effects » JonW, posted by francesco on August 23, 2003, at 12:04:35
> I had had similar experiences with SSRI (Paxil and Celexa above all, Prozac was not that bad). At the moment I think my previuous post was quite stupid and unuseful (I really don't know why I wrote it). Anyway my pdoc yesterday precribed me moclobemide but my pharmacist says it's not available anymore in Italy ... If this is true (my pdoc was quite sursprised about it) I think I will try again Prozac and if it doesn't work I'll have to come back to the good old Anafranil. Very glad you're doing fine on it (even envious ;-)
Francesco, did you ask your pdoc about Effexor (venlafaxine)? Did he give you much of a rationale for prescribing moclobemide?
What were good/bad effects you had with Prozac and Anafranil, again? There might be a chance of boosting the good and counteracting the bad with diet and nutrients.
How are feeling/functioning off medications for the time being?
Posted by DSCH on August 23, 2003, at 14:25:41
In reply to Re: some thoughts about side-effects » JonW, posted by francesco on August 23, 2003, at 12:04:35
If your pdoc has a good case for trying out a RIMA and you can't get moclobemide in Italy, you might be able to get toloxatone which is/has been(?) sold in France as Humoryl. I'm not aware of any other RIMA being on the market today anywhere (brofaromine and befloxatone have apparently been abandoned).
Posted by JonW on August 23, 2003, at 16:38:52
In reply to Re: some thoughts about side-effects » JonW, posted by francesco on August 23, 2003, at 12:04:35
> I had had similar experiences with SSRI (Paxil and Celexa above all, Prozac was not that bad). At the moment I think my previuous post was quite stupid and unuseful (I really don't know why I wrote it). Anyway my pdoc yesterday precribed me moclobemide but my pharmacist says it's not available anymore in Italy ... If this is true (my pdoc was quite sursprised about it) I think I will try again Prozac and if it doesn't work I'll have to come back to the good old Anafranil. Very glad you're doing fine on it (even envious ;-)
If you really are interested in trying moclobemide and it's not available in Italy, why not import it? Generic moclobemide from Canada at a dose of 450mg/day costs me about $1.20 (us dollars) per day (shipping included). That's around $445 per year -- not cheap, but not necessarily prohibitive, either. Just some info.
Good Luck,
Jon
Posted by francesco on August 23, 2003, at 19:33:50
In reply to Re: some thoughts about side-effects » francesco, posted by JonW on August 23, 2003, at 16:38:52
Hi DSCH, I've asked for Effexor, my doc said a lot of his patients became extremely anxious on it. I think he could be right and at the moment I don't wanna make experiments (apart from Aurorix). My plan is to get better with the meds that worked in the past and then think about it with the 100% of my brain. If I can't get Monoclobide I'll ask for generic or galenic (made by the pharmacist). I don't know if I want to order it from abroad (is it legal ? i don't care about it but I want to be followed by my doc and I don't wanna do anything he doesn't approve). Since I quit Wellbutrin (ten days ago) I'm very tired and fatigued during the day. Many stimulating drugs had this effect on me when I quit them. Anyway my main problem at the moment is a -psychological- one (hope not to be re-directed ;-): I want to take meds but my girlfriend doesn't want me to take them. My idea is not to tell it to her but I'm afraid she'll discover me (change of personality). Will I be re-directed ? ;-)
Posted by Viridis on August 23, 2003, at 19:55:22
In reply to Re: some thoughts about side-effects, posted by francesco on August 23, 2003, at 19:33:50
It's your decision -- other people shouldn't tell you whether to use meds or not. If your relationship depends on whether you feel normal or have to suffer because of the opinion of someone who really can't understand, then (if I were you) I wouldn't accept those terms. Of course, this is a personal decision, but I definitely know what I would do.
Posted by stjames on August 24, 2003, at 2:06:42
In reply to some thoughts about side-effects, posted by Francesco on August 23, 2003, at 6:28:27
I do think that those who are excessivly worried about SE's tend to be hypervigilant about them. I have always felt it is better to worry about them
when you get them and not before. Otherwise you set yourself up for failure or quit the meds without giving things a chance to work themselves out. But, there is no question that many psycomeds do have significant SE's in some people.
Posted by KimberlyDi on August 25, 2003, at 10:59:10
In reply to Re: some thoughts about side-effects » JonW, posted by francesco on August 23, 2003, at 12:04:35
Your previous post was NOT stupid and unuseful.
Question: Before you were on any AD, did you experience headaches before? some nausea? insomnia? constipation occassionally? loss of memory?
I do know that Side Effects happen. The one problem I see is that once a person starts taking AD's, they think everything that happens to their body is a Side Effect. I've yet to experience anything with worse Side Effects than abusing alcohol, or that has worse withdrawal than alcohol. Effexor is no way near as bad as what I had been going through.
I think we can be influenced by the power of suggestion (reading the listed side effects) and also, I think the majority of us overanalyze everything, especially ourselves.
Your post was very interesting to me. Not at all stupid. :)
KDi in Texas> I had had similar experiences with SSRI (Paxil and Celexa above all, Prozac was not that bad). At the moment I think my previuous post was quite stupid and unuseful (I really don't know why I wrote it). Anyway my pdoc yesterday precribed me moclobemide but my pharmacist says it's not available anymore in Italy ... If this is true (my pdoc was quite sursprised about it) I think I will try again Prozac and if it doesn't work I'll have to come back to the good old Anafranil. Very glad you're doing fine on it (even envious ;-)
Posted by Francesco on August 25, 2003, at 12:43:39
In reply to Re: some thoughts about side-effects, posted by KimberlyDi on August 25, 2003, at 10:59:10
Thanks Kimberly, I still believe in what I wrote in the post but I labelled it as "stupid" because I couldn't see the point in it. Part of our problem is, as you said, the vice of over-analyse anything that regards us. But once you know that SSRIs, for example, have sex side effects, is extremely difficult not to think about them while you're having sex (which worsen the quality of sex of course). So my post was, above all, the expression of a regret: what I wanted to say is that my quality of life was better when I didn't know anything about side effects of any sort. This I suppose is the reason why docs don't like to talk about side-effects ... if you tell someone that that med can cause sexual dysfunctions he will experience almost inevitably sexual dysfunctions. I don't know which is the solution of the dylemma (right to be informed vs. right to be cured in the best way) but I don't think that reading all these post about meds has helped my mental health. If part of the effects of the meds is placebo, and at least a part it is, being informed about every possibile side-effect is the worse way to let the placebo kicks in. So my purpose for the new year is following my pdoc prescriptions and stop monitoring myself to discover how much irritable I am. Blaming the meds for my irritability in fact makes my irritability worse, and besides, in these days I'm very irritable and I'm not taking any meds.
Posted by Francesco on August 25, 2003, at 12:56:55
In reply to Re: some thoughts about side-effects » francesco, posted by Viridis on August 23, 2003, at 19:55:22
Thanks for the support. You said what I needed to be said. People who have not these kind of problems simply can't undestand. I'm sorry about not be able to share my problems with my friends or girlfriend but maybe this strategy is the best for many reasons. If you are aggressive, for ex., while you're on Prozac and the people around you know you're on in it and disapprove it, nobody will doubt that that is the cause for your being aggressive. I want to be free to kill my mom without anybody doubting that my mom deserved to be killed ;-)
Posted by KimberlyDi on August 25, 2003, at 13:10:08
In reply to Re: some thoughts about side-effects, posted by francesco on August 23, 2003, at 19:33:50
<Anyway my main problem at the moment is a -psychological- one (hope not to be re-directed ;-): I want to take meds but my girlfriend doesn't want me to take them. My idea is not to tell it to her but I'm afraid she'll discover me (change of personality). Will I be re-directed ? ;-) >
I wish significant others would keep their mouth shut about our medical needs. Trust your pdoc more than a girlfriend. Be honest with her, there is nothing wrong with taking care of yourself through doctor-prescribed medicine. And be firm, she has to accept you, all of you, and your decisions.
KDi in Texas
Posted by francesco on August 25, 2003, at 18:02:42
In reply to Re: some thoughts about side-effects » francesco, posted by KimberlyDi on August 25, 2003, at 13:10:08
Thanks again Kimberly. I agree with you. She thinks that I'm not taking care of myself taking meds, like I were masochistic or something like that. "You don't need them" is her favourite refrain. Unfortunately I'm not that depressed or obsessed when I'm with people (my main problem is ADD) and so they can't understand. But I won't listen to my significant others anymore. It's my life and it's my brain and it's more important than any relationship. anyway thanks again
Posted by Francesco on August 25, 2003, at 18:12:46
In reply to Re: some thoughts about side-effects » KimberlyDi, posted by francesco on August 25, 2003, at 18:02:42
does anybody knows why monoclobide is not available anymore in Italy (and in other countries) ? i can understand why MAOIs could have been banned somewhere but what's the point in banning RIMAs ? aren't they relatively safe?
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