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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by methinks on June 11, 2003, at 0:53:32
Had been taking Dexedrine 5 mg tablets for several weeks until it caused my GERD (heartburn) to flare up uncontrollably. Dexedrine really helped with focusing and served as an effective anti-depressant, and the price was reasonable!
Would appreciate recommendations for other ADD medications that are reasonably priced that I could ask my pdoc to prescribe.
Posted by Ritch on June 11, 2003, at 10:20:23
In reply to Want a new stimulant for ADD!, posted by methinks on June 11, 2003, at 0:53:32
> Had been taking Dexedrine 5 mg tablets for several weeks until it caused my GERD (heartburn) to flare up uncontrollably. Dexedrine really helped with focusing and served as an effective anti-depressant, and the price was reasonable!
>
> Would appreciate recommendations for other ADD medications that are reasonably priced that I could ask my pdoc to prescribe.Try switching to the generic Adderall. It releases slowly instead of all-at-once, which should help.
Posted by utopizen on June 11, 2003, at 13:27:11
In reply to Re: Want a new stimulant for ADD! » methinks, posted by Ritch on June 11, 2003, at 10:20:23
> > Had been taking Dexedrine 5 mg tablets for several weeks until it caused my GERD (heartburn) to flare up uncontrollably. Dexedrine really helped with focusing and served as an effective anti-depressant, and the price was reasonable!
> >
> > Would appreciate recommendations for other ADD medications that are reasonably priced that I could ask my pdoc to prescribe.
>
> Try switching to the generic Adderall. It releases slowly instead of all-at-once, which should help.Try Desoxyn. It lasts for a few hours. The company that bought it last year for $40 million (bundled with the sale of Tranxene) from Abbott is working on an extended release version.
Unfortunately, Abbott use to make one of the most sophisticated extended release system around with Desoxyn, until 2000, when they claimed they had manfacturing issues and only continued with the immediate release version. Desoxyn GRADUMET(R) released two differently-timed parts at once, and it lasted 12 hours.
Posted by paxvox on June 11, 2003, at 18:47:14
In reply to Want a new stimulant for ADD!, posted by methinks on June 11, 2003, at 0:53:32
Wellbutrin. Non-addictive and effective.
PAX
Posted by methinks on June 11, 2003, at 23:54:21
In reply to Re: Want a new stimulant for ADD!, posted by utopizen on June 11, 2003, at 13:27:11
> > > Had been taking Dexedrine 5 mg tablets for several weeks until it caused my GERD (heartburn) to flare up uncontrollably. Dexedrine really helped with focusing and served as an effective anti-depressant, and the price was reasonable!
> > >
> > > Would appreciate recommendations for other ADD medications that are reasonably priced that I could ask my pdoc to prescribe.
> >
> > Try switching to the generic Adderall. It releases slowly instead of all-at-once, which should help.
>
> Try Desoxyn. It lasts for a few hours. The company that bought it last year for $40 million (bundled with the sale of Tranxene) from Abbott is working on an extended release version.
>
> Unfortunately, Abbott use to make one of the most sophisticated extended release system around with Desoxyn, until 2000, when they claimed they had manfacturing issues and only continued with the immediate release version. Desoxyn GRADUMET(R) released two differently-timed parts at once, and it lasted 12 hours.
Desoxyn would be my first choice except for the high price: $1.25 per 5 mg tablet based on ordering a quanity of 100. Seems that none of the pharmacies around here stock Desoxyn. One pharmacist said he would order it only if I had a script for 100, because that is the minimum he could order, and he didn't want to get stuck with any in his inventory. Anyone know why there isn't a generic for Desoxyn? Surely it's been around long enough to go off patent.
Posted by utopizen on June 12, 2003, at 18:54:53
In reply to Re: Want a new stimulant for ADD! » utopizen, posted by methinks on June 11, 2003, at 23:54:21
> . Anyone know why there isn't a generic for Desoxyn? Surely it's been around long enough to go off patent.
>
Very few generic companies have the resources to handle the paperwork the goes along with handling a Class-II Scheduled drug. All ADD stims are C-II's. Desoxyn, however, is methamphetamine, which has its own act of congress to add to the paperwork.Ovation Pharmaceuticals purchased Desoxyn because their market research determined it was "under-marketed" by Abbott, and by simply marketing it through their sales people, they could justify the $40 million they spent on buying the brand-name rights to it. According to a techie I know who works for Abbott, it requires so much investment in reverse engineering a brand name drug in order to sell it as a generic that $40 million is probably more attractive to them.
This way, they don't have to spend millions on reverse engineering it only to have to compete against the brand name. They can charge a higher price knowing generic companies don't want to bother with the hassle of dealing with all the paperwork that is required to distribute methamphetamine, thus having no generic competition.
The first pharmacy I went to, which is in a very affluent suburb where Ritalin is a hot item there, the manager told me his safe was full as it was and he couldn't justify overstocking it just for one patient. So I went to a Wallgreens, which was much less busy than this other pharmacy, and they said they always carry it in stock and see it filled once every few months.
I get prescribed 10mg 2x/day, which is 4 5mg pills a day. 4 pills x 30 days = 120 pills.
Average daily dose for Desoxyn is 20-25mg according to the PDR, so if your pharmacist had a clue, he'd know you'd need more than 100 pills in a single month's quantity.
Posted by Jack Smith on June 12, 2003, at 19:15:14
In reply to Re: Want a new stimulant for ADD! » methinks, posted by utopizen on June 12, 2003, at 18:54:53
> According to a techie I know who works for Abbott, it requires so much investment in reverse engineering a brand name drug in order to sell it as a generic that $40 million is probably more attractive to them.
>Pardon my ignorance but what is "reverse engineering?"
By buying the rights from Abbot, did they get by the paperwork?
Also, don't you think a generic could compete well with brand Desoxyn? I mean desoxyn is not exactly a recognized name like ritalin or dexedrine? Yet there are plenty of generics for those.
I have always been puzzled by why some drugs never have generics. Most notably the MAOI's. I think utopizen is right that desoxyn's problems stems from the fact that it has been notoriously abused to the point where it has several acts of congress to deal with. MAOI's, I just don't know.
JACK
Posted by utopizen on June 12, 2003, at 20:40:40
In reply to Generics/Reverse Engineering » utopizen, posted by Jack Smith on June 12, 2003, at 19:15:14
It's simple- reverse engineering means you produce the drug without prior knowledge of the brand name drug's production methods.
It requires a person to sign a statement claiming they've never seen any information on how to produce the product, then they take the drug and the certain information that the FDA requires the brand name drug's maker to hand over to the generic companies, and make it from scratch. Then they have to prove it's to a certain point similar in potentcy, etc., to the brand name.
Desoxyn hasn't been made generic because even if it wasn't scheduled, its sales are so slow that even Abbott didn't bother to ever market it (they did when it came out in 1943, and even made compounds that included barbituate Nembutal to produce "Desbutal" in the 60's, but it was too abused and the FDA told them to stop making it).
So it was popular in the 60's, but the Controlled Substances Act of 1970 stifled its sales to the point where my past pdoc, who's a Harvard Med grad and child + adult psychopharmacologist since '68, told me with an odd look "I've never heard of that." Many doctors haven't.
Abbott is a big company. It's not worth it to them to market Desoxyn because they'd rather spend whatever that would cost on their more profitable drugs. But to a small, 20-employee upstart, Ovation thinks it's an under-marketed drug and wants to focus in on it to make a profit, along with the Traxene they also bought.
As far as the MAOIs go, I read in California there's about 800 prescribed a year. And that's one of the most populated states in the country! Distribution alone is a problem whenever you're dealing with a rarely prescribed drug, so it's not justifiable to spend tens of millions of dollars to reverse engineer a drug that you would be lucky to not LOSE money simply distributing it.
Posted by stjames on June 13, 2003, at 14:42:29
In reply to Re: Generics/Reverse Engineering, posted by utopizen on June 12, 2003, at 20:40:40
> It's simple- reverse engineering means you produce the drug without prior knowledge of the brand name drug's production methods.
Patents are on molecules, not production methods
This is the end of the thread.
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