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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by McPac on June 5, 2003, at 17:18:25
I was wondering what natural substances might be able to come closest to replacing lithium? (perhaps a natural "cocktail"?)
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2003, at 17:21:47
In reply to Larry/Anybody......Natural Lithium replacements?, posted by McPac on June 5, 2003, at 17:18:25
> I was wondering what natural substances might be able to come closest to replacing lithium? (perhaps a natural "cocktail"?)
Not that I know of......
All the things I've mentioned, in a variety of contexts, may help....
fish oil, magnesium, B-vitamins (particularly niacinamide), and so on.Replacement, though? Sorry.
Lar
Posted by McPac on June 5, 2003, at 17:30:57
In reply to Re: Larry/Anybody......Natural Lithium replacements? » McPac, posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2003, at 17:21:47
Thanks Lar!
Posted by McPac on June 5, 2003, at 19:19:28
In reply to Re: Larry/Anybody......Natural Lithium replacements? » McPac, posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2003, at 17:21:47
Lar,
I was just scanning a website that also mentioned lecithin, taurine & GABA as natural mood stabilizers.
Posted by Rick on June 5, 2003, at 23:02:40
In reply to Larry/Anybody......Natural Lithium replacements?, posted by McPac on June 5, 2003, at 17:18:25
This Medline abstract suggests that Ashwagandha (scientific name Withania somnifera) may have mood stabilizing properties -- although I'm not sure they're using the term "mood stabilizer" in the usual sense. It's a classic Ayurvedic herb that's widely available in health food stores.
Phytomedicine. 2000 Dec;7(6):463-9.
Anxiolytic-antidepressant activity of Withania somnifera glycowithanolides: an experimental study.
Bhattacharya SK, Bhattacharya A, Sairam K, Ghosal S.
Department of Pharmacology, Institute of Medical Sciences, Banaras Hindu University, Varanasi, India. salil@banaras.ernet.in
The roots of Withania somnifera (WS) are used extensively in Ayurveda, the classical Indian system of medicine, and WS is categorized as a rasayana, which are used to promote physical and mental health, to provide defence against disease and adverse environmental factors and to arrest the aging process. WS has been used to stabilize mood in patients with behavioural disturbances. The present study investigated the anxiolytic and antidepressant actions of the bioactive glycowithanolides (WSG), isolated from WS roots, in rats. WSG (20 and 50 mg/kg) was administered orally once daily for 5 days and the results were compared by those elicited by the benzodiazepine lorazepam (0.5 mg/kg, i.p.) for anxiolytic studies, and by the tricyclic anti-depressant, imipramine (10 mg/kg, i.p.), for the antidepressant investigations. Both these standard drugs were administered once, 30 min prior to the tests. WSG induced an anxiolytic effect, comparable to that produced by lorazepam, in the elevated plus-maze, social interaction and feeding latency in an unfamiliar environment, tests. Further, both WSG and lorazepam, reduced rat brain levels of tribulin, an endocoid marker of clinical anxiety, when the levels were increased following administration of the anxiogenic agent, pentylenetetrazole. WSG also exhibited an antidepressant effect, comparable with that induced by imipramine, in the forced swim-induced 'behavioural despair' and 'learned helplessness' tests. The investigations support the use of WS as a mood stabilizer in clinical conditions of anxiety and depression in Ayurveda.
Posted by samplemethod on June 5, 2003, at 23:34:01
In reply to Re: Larry/Anybody......Natural Lithium replacements? » McPac, posted by Rick on June 5, 2003, at 23:02:40
WOW, that Ashwagandha sounds really good doesn't it. More tests and action analyses would be great... I might try it out. Though I dont usually like herbs with wacky properties where they dunno what is actually goin on. I wonder about the long term affects of taking those herbs, and seem to question the "cleaness" of the drug. Manufactured drugs seem so much more reliable and clean.
Anyway in terms of a substitute for lithium I have recently been directed towards Glycine.Taken from http://www.internalhealth.com/l_glycine.htm
Useful in the treatment of manic (bipolar) depression. Clinical studies with individuals during acute manic attacks, calmness and cessation of the manic episode occurred within one hour. Patients taking lithium for depression have shown an increase in plasma glycine. Glycine is also effective for treatment of hyperactivity. Having too much within the body can cause fatigue, but the correct amount produces energy.
----
Now I havent looked into journal reports yet... Im especially interested in the study that they are apparently referring to.I have ordered some glycine and I'm gonna try it out. It's pretty damn cheap too.
Cheers
sampleM
> This Medline abstract suggests that Ashwagandha (scientific name Withania somnifera) may have mood stabilizing properties -- although I'm not sure they're using the term "mood stabilizer" in the usual sense. It's a classic Ayurvedic herb that's widely available in health food stores.
>
> Phytomedicine. 2000 Dec;7(6):463-9.
>
> Anxiolytic-antidepressant activity of Withania somnifera glycowithanolides: an experimental study.
>
> Bhattacharya SK, Bhattacharya A, Sairam K, Ghosal S.
>
> Department of Pharmacology, Institute of Medical Sciences, Banaras Hindu University, Varanasi, India. salil@banaras.ernet.in
>
> The roots of Withania somnifera (WS) are used extensively in Ayurveda, the classical Indian system of medicine, and WS is categorized as a rasayana, which are used to promote physical and mental health, to provide defence against disease and adverse environmental factors and to arrest the aging process. WS has been used to stabilize mood in patients with behavioural disturbances. The present study investigated the anxiolytic and antidepressant actions of the bioactive glycowithanolides (WSG), isolated from WS roots, in rats. WSG (20 and 50 mg/kg) was administered orally once daily for 5 days and the results were compared by those elicited by the benzodiazepine lorazepam (0.5 mg/kg, i.p.) for anxiolytic studies, and by the tricyclic anti-depressant, imipramine (10 mg/kg, i.p.), for the antidepressant investigations. Both these standard drugs were administered once, 30 min prior to the tests. WSG induced an anxiolytic effect, comparable to that produced by lorazepam, in the elevated plus-maze, social interaction and feeding latency in an unfamiliar environment, tests. Further, both WSG and lorazepam, reduced rat brain levels of tribulin, an endocoid marker of clinical anxiety, when the levels were increased following administration of the anxiogenic agent, pentylenetetrazole. WSG also exhibited an antidepressant effect, comparable with that induced by imipramine, in the forced swim-induced 'behavioural despair' and 'learned helplessness' tests. The investigations support the use of WS as a mood stabilizer in clinical conditions of anxiety and depression in Ayurveda.
>
Posted by Rick on June 6, 2003, at 15:26:29
In reply to Re: Larry/Anybody......Natural Lithium replacements?, posted by samplemethod on June 5, 2003, at 23:34:01
> WOW, that Ashwagandha sounds really good doesn't it. More tests and action analyses would be great... I might try it out. Though I dont usually like herbs with wacky properties where they dunno what is actually goin on. I wonder about the long term affects of taking those herbs, and seem to question the "cleaness" of the drug. Manufactured drugs seem so much more reliable and clean.
>Even though I am always intrigued by herbs, I agree with you on all counts. Nonetheless, assuming you've got an unadulterated batch (always a concern, especially with lesser-known brands), Ashwaghanda seems to have a record for being pretty safe.
I've attached the Ashwaghanda monograph from the Natural Medicines Comprehensive Database, which comes from a pharmacists' group that also produces a respected pharmicists' newsletter. They are evidence-based, and far from "rah rah" about all of the natural remedies out there. The numbers in parentheses refer to references -- usually Medline abstracts -- but I haven't listed those here.
As for glycine, while I am not personally seeking a mood stabilizer, I'm
intrigued by some of the other factors mentioned in the link you provided, as well as by a Medline abstract I found of a glycine supplementation study that found memory benefits in humans. I've pasted that abstract below the Ashwaghanda monograph.(Strange thing about glycine in the Natural Medicines Comprehensive Database: it's completely missing, even though they list just about every other supplement and herb out there, including many obscure ones. It used to be listed, but only as an alternate name for Dimethylglycine (or the related Pangamic Acid), which they cite as unsafe for reasons including potential carcinogenity). I wonder if there are products out there that are labeled simply "Glycine" but are actually DMG?
Rick
--------------ASHWAGANDHA
Also Known As:
Ajagandha, Amangura, Amukkirag, Asan, Asgand, Asgandh, Asgandha, Ashagandha, Ashvagandha, Ashwaganda, Asoda, Asundha, Asvagandha, Aswagandha, Avarada, Ayurvedic Ginseng, Clustered Wintercherry, Ghoda Asoda, Indian Ginseng, Kanaje Hindi, Kuthmithi, Samm Al Ferakh, Turangi-Ghanda, Winter Cherry, Withania.
CAUTION: See separate listings for Blue Cohosh, Canaigre, Codonopsis, Ginseng American, Ginseng Panax, Ginseng Siberian, and Winter Cherry.Scientific Names:
Withania somnifera.Family: Solanaceae.
People Use This For:
Orally, ashwagandha is used for arthritis, anxiety, insomnia, tumors, tuberculosis, and chronic liver disease. Ashwagandha is also used as a so-called "adaptogen," for increasing resistance to environmental stress, and as a general tonic. It is also used orally for immunomodulatory effects, improving cognitive function, decreasing inflammation, and preventing the effects of aging. Ashwagandha is also used orally for emaciation, infertility in men and women, menstrual disorders, and hiccups. It is also used orally as an aphrodisiac, and emmenagogue; and for treating asthma, leukoderma, bronchitis, backache, and arthritis.
Topically, ashwagandha is used for treating ulcerations, backache, and hemiplegia.Safety:
POSSIBLY SAFE ...when used orally and appropriately (12,3710).
There is insufficient reliable information available about the safety of ashwagandha for its other uses.PREGNANCY: LIKELY UNSAFE ...when used orally. Ashwagandha has abortifacient effects (12,19).
LACTATION: Insufficient reliable information available; avoid using.
Effectiveness:
There is insufficient reliable information available about the effectiveness of ashwagandha.Mechanism of Action:
The applicable parts of ashwagandha are the root and berry. Ashwagandha contains several active constituents including withanolides (4116), the essential oil known as ipuranol, and withaniol (6). Ashwagandha does not contain nicotine as some researchers have reported (3710). Ashwagandha is thought to have a variety of pharmacological effects including analgesic, antipyretic, sedative, hypotensive, anti-inflammatory, and antioxidant effects (3710,3711,4113,4116). It might also stimulate respiratory function, cause smooth muscle relaxation, and stimulate thyroid synthesis and/or secretion (3710). Ashwagandha was once thought to act as a diuretic, but preliminary evidence shows it does not have this effect (6). Some researchers think ashwagandha has a so-called "antistressor" effect. There is preliminary evidence that ashwagandha might suppress stress-induced increases in dopamine receptors in the corpus striatum of the brain (3710). Ashwagandha might also have anxiolytic effects, possibly by acting as a gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) mimetic agent. It might also have anticonvulsant activity, by binding to the GABA receptor (3710). Ashwagandha and its constituents also seem to have immunomodulatory effects. The constituents withaferin-A and withanolide-D seem to cause immunosuppression (6), but other constituents seem to have immunostimulating and antitumor activity. It is unclear what net effect whole ashwagandha preparations have on the immune system (3710,3711); however, there is preliminary evidence that ashwagandha might reduce cyclophosphamide-induced immunosuppression and leukopenia (3711,4114). Ashwagandha also seems to increase bone marrow cell and white blood cell count in radiation-treated animals (3711).Adverse Reactions:
Orally, ashwagandha seems to be well tolerated at typical doses. Large doses may cause gastrointestinal upset, diarrhea, and vomiting secondary to irritation of the mucous and serous membranes (3710).Interactions with Herbs & Supplements:
HERBS/SUPPLEMENTS WITH SEDATIVE PROPERTIES: Theoretically, concomitant use with herbs that have sedative properties might enhance therapeutic and adverse effects. Some of these include 5-HTP, calamus, calendula, California poppy, catnip, capsicum, celery, couch grass, elecampane, Siberian ginseng, German chamomile, goldenseal, gotu kola, hops, Jamaican dogwood, kava, lemon balm, sage, St. John's wort, sassafras, scullcap, shepherd's purse, stinging nettle, valerian, wild carrot, wild lettuce, and yerba mansa (4,19).Interactions with Drugs:
AMPHETAMINE: Theoretically, concomitant use of ashwagandha extracts might increase the effects of amphetamine (6).
BARBITURATES, OTHER SEDATIVES AND ANXIOLYTICS: Theoretically, ashwagandha's sedative effect can potentiate the effects of barbiturates, other sedatives, and anxiolytics (19).
BENZODIAZEPINES: Theoretically, ashwagandha might increase the effects of benzodiazepines (3710). There is preliminary evidence that ashwagandha might have an additive effect with diazepam (Valium) and clonazepam (Klonopin) (3710). This can probably also occur with other benzodiazepines such as alprazolam (Xanax), flurazepam (Dalmane), lorazepam (Ativan), and midazolam (Versed).
IMMUNOSUPPRESSANTS: Theoretically, ashwagandha might decrease the effectiveness of immunosuppressant therapy because of its potential immunostimulating effects. There is preliminary evidence that ashwagandha might decrease immunosuppression caused by cyclophosphamide (3711,4114). It might also decrease the effectiveness of other immunosuppressant drugs such as azathioprine (Imuran), basiliximab (Simulect), cyclosporine (Neoral, Sandimmune), daclizumab (Zenapax), muromonab-CD3 (OKT3, Orthoclone OKT3), mycophenolate (CellCept), tacrolimus (FK506, Prograf), sirolimus (Rapamune), prednisone (Deltasone, Orasone), and other corticosteroids (glucocorticoids).
THYROID, LEVOTHYROXINE (Synthroid), LIOTHYRONINE (Cytomel): Theoretically, ashwagandha might have additive effects when used with thyroid supplements. There is preliminary evidence that ashwagandha might boost thyroid hormone synthesis and/or secretion (3710).Interactions with Foods:
None known.Interactions with Lab Tests:
THYROID FUNCTION TESTS: Theoretically, ashwagandha might suppress thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) or increase triiodothyronine (T3) or thyroxine (T4) values. There is some evidence that ashwagandha might stimulate thyroid hormone synthesis or secretion (3710).Interactions with Diseases or Conditions:
PEPTIC ULCER DISEASE: Theoretically, ashwagandha should be avoided by people with peptic ulcer disease because of its irritant effect on the gastrointestinal tract (3710).Dosage/Administration:
ORAL: People typically use 1 to 6 grams daily of the whole herb in capsule or tea form (3710). The tea is prepared by boiling ashwagandha roots in water for 15 minutes and cooled. The usual dose is 3 cups daily. Tincture or fluid extracts are dosed 2 to 4 mL 3 times per day (6006).
TOPICAL: No typical dosage.Comments:
The name Ashwagandha is from the Sanskrit language and is a combination of the word ashva, meaning horse, and gandha, meaning smell. The root has a strong aroma that is described as "horse-like" (3710). In Ayurvedic, Indian, and Unani medicine, ashwagandha is described as "Indian ginseng" (6). Ashwagandha is sometimes substituted or adulterated with a similar plant, Withania coagulans (3710). Avoid confusing ashwagandha with Physalis alkekengi, also known as winter cherry.---------------------------
J Clin Psychopharmacol. 1999 Dec;19(6):506-12.
Beneficial effects of glycine (bioglycin) on memory and attention in young and middle-aged adults.
File SE, Fluck E, Fernandes C.
Psychopharmacology Research Unit, United Medical and Dental Schools of Guy's and St Thomas' Hospitals, Guy's Hospital, London, United Kingdom. sandra.file@kcl.ac.uk
The N-methyl D-aspartate receptor complex is involved in the mechanism of long-term potentiation, which is thought to be the biological basis of learning and memory. This complex can be manipulated in a number of ways, one of which is through the strychnine-insensitive glycine receptor coagonist site. The effects of Bioglycin(Konapharma, Pratteln, Switzerland), a biologically active form of the amino acid glycine, were therefore studied in healthy students (mean age, 20.7 years) and middle-aged men (mean age, 58.9 years) with tests that measured attention, memory and mood, using a double-blind, randomized, crossover design. Compared with the young group, the middle-aged group had significantly poorer verbal episodic memory, focused, divided, and sustained attention; they also differed in their subjective responses at the end of testing. Bioglycin significantly improved retrieval from episodic memory in both the young and the middle-aged groups, but it did not affect focused or divided attention. However, the middle-aged men significantly benefited from Bioglycin in the sustained-attention task. The effects of Bioglycin differed from those of other cognitive enhancers in that it was without stimulant properties or significant effects on mood, and it primarily improved memory rather than attention. It is likely to be of benefit in young or older people in situations where high retrieval of information is needed or when performance is impaired by jet lag, shift work, or disrupted sleep. It may also benefit the impaired retrieval shown in patients with schizophrenia, Parkinson's disease, and Huntington's disease
Posted by McPac on June 7, 2003, at 0:34:52
In reply to Re: Larry/Anybody......Natural Lithium replacements? » samplemethod, posted by Rick on June 6, 2003, at 15:26:29
Thanks Rick and Sample!!
This is the end of the thread.
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