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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by steve14226 on April 22, 2003, at 19:48:55
Does anyone know what might be the next new antidepressant to come out and when it will be available?
Posted by btnd on April 22, 2003, at 22:03:36
In reply to New Antidepressants?, posted by steve14226 on April 22, 2003, at 19:48:55
> Does anyone know what might be the next new antidepressant to come out and when it will be available?
No need for new ADs, at least for me :)
Simply start producing amineptine again. Unfortunately it was probably working TOO GOOD and any medication related to dopamine means addiction & recreational usage for the FDA. So we have what we have :(
As for your question, IMO med companies should start researching more dopamine-related meds, rather than serotonin-oriented.
Posted by McPac on April 22, 2003, at 23:15:43
In reply to New Antidepressants?, posted by steve14226 on April 22, 2003, at 19:48:55
I'm sure the next pile of trash will be out soon enough (after the ssri hype is over).
Posted by Bob on April 23, 2003, at 0:18:13
In reply to Re: New Antidepressants?, posted by McPac on April 22, 2003, at 23:15:43
> I'm sure the next pile of trash will be out soon enough (after the ssri hype is over).
I feel your pain McPac. The SSRIs are way overhyped, and when the next thing comes along everybody will start admitting how awful the SSRIs were. The only thing I'd have to disagree with is with they're being here soon. Seems like the development of new and novel drugs has slowed to a standstill. I have lost faith that they will come out with anything truly novel and effective in a timely enough manner to salvage my life.
Posted by btnd on April 23, 2003, at 1:27:36
In reply to Re: New Antidepressants? » McPac, posted by Bob on April 23, 2003, at 0:18:13
> > I'm sure the next pile of trash will be out soon enough (after the ssri hype is over).
>
> I feel your pain McPac. The SSRIs are way overhyped, and when the next thing comes along everybody will start admitting how awful the SSRIs were. The only thing I'd have to disagree with is with they're being here soon. Seems like the development of new and novel drugs has slowed to a standstill. I have lost faith that they will come out with anything truly novel and effective in a timely enough manner to salvage my life.
>It is definitely the time for SDRI (selective dopamine reuptake inhibitors), that will have a low side-effect profile.
Posted by Ritch on April 23, 2003, at 9:44:02
In reply to Amineptine (Survector) should be back :), posted by btnd on April 22, 2003, at 22:03:36
> > Does anyone know what might be the next new antidepressant to come out and when it will be available?
>
> No need for new ADs, at least for me :)
> Simply start producing amineptine again. Unfortunately it was probably working TOO GOOD and any medication related to dopamine means addiction & recreational usage for the FDA. So we have what we have :(
> As for your question, IMO med companies should start researching more dopamine-related meds, rather than serotonin-oriented.
I was listening to NPR a couple of weeks ago and it seems that amineptine is likely to be approved soon (or already has been approved or something-whatever) for late-stage Alzheimer's disease. The other Alzheimer's drugs apparently are relatively ineffective for the late stages, but clinical trials are showing amineptine to cause marked improvement in cognitive functioning and mood. The report also mentioned a significant reduction in the amount of time that patients needed to be supervised (they were less confused and upset).
Posted by Neo on April 23, 2003, at 12:03:48
In reply to Re: New Antidepressants?, posted by btnd on April 23, 2003, at 1:27:36
Posted by Jack Smith on April 23, 2003, at 12:32:55
In reply to Re: New Antidepressants? » McPac, posted by Bob on April 23, 2003, at 0:18:13
> I feel your pain McPac. The SSRIs are way overhyped, and when the next thing comes along everybody will start admitting how awful the SSRIs were. The only thing I'd have to disagree with is with they're being here soon. Seems like the development of new and novel drugs has slowed to a standstill. I have lost faith that they will come out with anything truly novel and effective in a timely enough manner to salvage my life.
>
>
I know you are frustrated but to say the ssri's are "awful" is ridiculous. An SSRI--celexa--saved my life a few years ago. It had hardly any side effects. While it eventually stopped working, I thank god that it was invented. Just because a particular class of meds did not work for you does not make them awful. Moreover, the SSRI's were great for the depressed population because drug companies, after the success of prozac, invested like 100 times more money in developing new AD's and they are continuing to do so.
Posted by linkadge on April 23, 2003, at 13:23:47
In reply to Re: New Antidepressants? » Bob, posted by Jack Smith on April 23, 2003, at 12:32:55
For those of you who are taking AD's to improve what was relativly normal to begin with, fine lets wait for the new drug to come out.
But for the rest of use who aren't really
here to get a high, Serotoin will never
go away. If you're genetically predisposed
to have nill Serotonin, then whatever med
you take - it'd better fix that problem.Prozac isn't a fad - it stopped me from
shooting myself in the head. So please,
have a little respect here. Yes new drugs
may come out to have improved response or
side effect profiles, but for us who are
in this for real, these drugs aren't just
the flavor of the month.
I've played this game before, you say
yeah, serotonin's nice but I need some
of this. Then you're back where you started
because you didn't learn from your past
mistakes.
So if you're just playing this game,
and never had problems in the first
place then fine, but I caution those
who've made it a long way on SSRI's
not to just toss them for the newest
thing that Comes along.For all intents and purposes, Remeron
was supposed to be that mirracle drug,
but it made me more suicidal than ever.
Please have respect for those of us
to which this is really an illness
not a game.
Linkadge
Posted by btnd on April 23, 2003, at 15:47:41
In reply to What SDRI is currently on the market? Tnx (nm) » btnd, posted by Neo on April 23, 2003, at 12:03:48
I believe NONE...correct me if i'm wrong.
Posted by Bob on April 23, 2003, at 16:11:57
In reply to Re: New Antidepressants? » Bob, posted by Jack Smith on April 23, 2003, at 12:32:55
>
> > I feel your pain McPac. The SSRIs are way overhyped, and when the next thing comes along everybody will start admitting how awful the SSRIs were. The only thing I'd have to disagree with is with they're being here soon. Seems like the development of new and novel drugs has slowed to a standstill. I have lost faith that they will come out with anything truly novel and effective in a timely enough manner to salvage my life.
> >
> >
>
> I know you are frustrated but to say the ssri's are "awful" is ridiculous. An SSRI--celexa--saved my life a few years ago. It had hardly any side effects. While it eventually stopped working, I thank god that it was invented. Just because a particular class of meds did not work for you does not make them awful. Moreover, the SSRI's were great for the depressed population because drug companies, after the success of prozac, invested like 100 times more money in developing new AD's and they are continuing to do so.
>
Ok, ok. "Awful" was the wrong word. How about flawed? I admit that I harbor extreme frustration and anger over the fact that SSRIs, and other ADs as well, have not helped me much. However, there are inherent problems with the SSRIs that are currently not mentioned which will definitely make them a second line choice one day. They have eventual weight gain for most people, significant sexual side-effects, akathisia, somnolence, apathy, etc, etc. They also don't work long term for many people (apparently this was the case for you also). BTW, just because a SSRI saves your life doesn't mean it will give you extended long term quality of life. I've taken every SSRI out there, and indeed my life has been "saved" more than once. However, nothing has brought me close to what my quality of life was pre-illness. Again, this is just me, but I don't think I'm the only one. I realize that there are "super responders" out there who are miraculously cured with an SSRI with absolutely no side effects. I maintain though, that this is not the typical case. Again, I admit, I'm frustrated and saddened by my lack of response to meds.
Posted by Bob on April 23, 2003, at 16:24:24
In reply to Serotonin isn't a fad ! ??!, posted by linkadge on April 23, 2003, at 13:23:47
> For those of you who are taking AD's to improve what was relativly normal to begin with, fine lets wait for the new drug to come out.
>
> But for the rest of use who aren't really
> here to get a high, Serotoin will never
> go away. If you're genetically predisposed
> to have nill Serotonin, then whatever med
> you take - it'd better fix that problem.
>
> Prozac isn't a fad - it stopped me from
> shooting myself in the head. So please,
> have a little respect here. Yes new drugs
> may come out to have improved response or
> side effect profiles, but for us who are
> in this for real, these drugs aren't just
> the flavor of the month.
>
>
> I've played this game before, you say
> yeah, serotonin's nice but I need some
> of this. Then you're back where you started
> because you didn't learn from your past
> mistakes.
>
>
> So if you're just playing this game,
> and never had problems in the first
> place then fine, but I caution those
> who've made it a long way on SSRI's
> not to just toss them for the newest
> thing that Comes along.
>
> For all intents and purposes, Remeron
> was supposed to be that mirracle drug,
> but it made me more suicidal than ever.
>
>
> Please have respect for those of us
> to which this is really an illness
> not a game.
>
>
> Linkadge
My dear, dear Linkadge:How, in God's dear name, do you know that I was "relatively normal"? How do you come to the conclusion that I'm "playing a game"? Those are two of the largest and most unjustified assumptions I've seen in quite awhile. BTW, I don't know who called serotonin a "fad", but it wasn't me. Please don't accuse me of having no respect - I don't think it has anything to do with disrepect towards another individual who takes these meds. I to have been faced with suicide many times, and as you probably can imagine, it was not pretty. I have to admit that the drugs "saved" my life, but that doesn't mean I like them. I hate that I have to live with them. My quality of life on them ever since I got sick and had to take them has suffered tremendously.
I too have been stung by going off meds to try the latest and greatest. The best example of that for me was Topomax. It very nearly killed me and that is absolutely no exaggeration. The problem is, I have never found a drug that restores an adequate enough level of funtioning to say to my self, "ok, I can live with this indefinitely." That's why me, people like me, and the drug companies will always be feverishly searching for something better. There's no question that the current pharmacologic armamentorium has brought significant benifits to people - nobody is disputing that. No one can dispute however, that there is massive room for improvement, both in side effect profiles, as well as ability to treat a broader range of patients and conditions.
I've taken a whole, whole lot of drugs (Prozac and Remeron included) and been through a hell of a lot of pain. I can honestly say that I never discontinued a drug for a frivolous reason. It was because of either an unacceptable side-effect profile, or inappropriate/insufficient response. Those decisions are never taken lightly.
Posted by SLS on April 23, 2003, at 20:39:20
In reply to Re: Amineptine (Survector) should be back :) » btnd, posted by Ritch on April 23, 2003, at 9:44:02
> I was listening to NPR a couple of weeks ago and it seems that amineptine is likely to be approved soon (or already has been approved or something-whatever) for late-stage Alzheimer's disease.
Are you sure they weren't talking about memantine?I hope it is amineptine that they were talking about. I don't think memantine is to be approved specifically for late-stage DAT.
- Scott
Posted by Ritch on April 23, 2003, at 23:37:25
In reply to Re: Amineptine (Survector) should be back :) » Ritch, posted by SLS on April 23, 2003, at 20:39:20
>
> > I was listening to NPR a couple of weeks ago and it seems that amineptine is likely to be approved soon (or already has been approved or something-whatever) for late-stage Alzheimer's disease.
>
>
> Are you sure they weren't talking about memantine?
>
> I hope it is amineptine that they were talking about. I don't think memantine is to be approved specifically for late-stage DAT.
>
>
> - ScottWhoops! Yes it was Memantine instead they were talking about evidently. Here's a link from the NIH. Glutamate inhibition. Hmmm. Sounds pretty interesting to me. Isn't lithium and Topamax and Lamictal involved somehow with this mechanism of action (directly or indirectly)?
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_12227.html
Posted by jack smith on April 24, 2003, at 19:42:52
In reply to Re: New Antidepressants? » Jack Smith, posted by Bob on April 23, 2003, at 16:11:57
> I admit that I harbor extreme frustration and anger over the fact that SSRIs, and other ADs as well, have not helped me much. However, there are inherent problems with the SSRIs that are currently not mentioned which will definitely make them a second line choice one day.
Of course they will become a second line choice one day, just as the TCA's are not a first line choice because of newer meds.
I agree with you that today they are not always the best first choice for unipolar depressives but in a plurality of cases, they are. Lazy doctors who only meet with a patient for 20 minutes thus prescribe them as a first line because of this.
> They have eventual weight gain for most people, significant sexual side-effects, akathisia, somnolence, apathy, etc, etc.
So do all AD's. I wish you luck on finding something and I wish myself luck as well.
Posted by garylee on April 24, 2003, at 20:10:58
In reply to Re: What SDRI is currently on the market? NONE, posted by btnd on April 23, 2003, at 15:47:41
extract from: http://www.acnp.org/g4/GN401000115/CH113.html
"Effect of DA Agonists on Negative Symptoms
If negative symptoms were related to decreased function of the mesocortical DA system, one would expect treatment with DA agonists to improve negative symptoms of schizophrenia. Various studies have attempted to improve schizophrenic symptoms by increasing DA activity. Most have failed to find clinically meaningful effects (see ref. 38). However, recently the DA reuptake inhibitor, mazindole (2 mg/day), improved negative symptoms as compared to placebo (39). In that study, mazindole or placebo were added to neuroleptic treatment after patients had been stabilized on neuroleptic for 4 weeks. However, well-controlled large studies are needed to explore the efficacy of increasing DA activity in the negative symptoms of schizophrenia, although the data reviewed here certainly encourage such an approach. "
Amineptine IS on the market - in Brazil... It's manufactured by Servier Brazil. I have spoke with them and confirmed that it is still in production, under the original brand name Survector.
Posted by Questionmark on April 24, 2003, at 20:58:19
In reply to Re: What SDRI is currently on the market? Some..., posted by garylee on April 24, 2003, at 20:10:58
> extract from: http://www.acnp.org/g4/GN401000115/CH113.html
>
> "Effect of DA Agonists on Negative Symptoms
>
> If negative symptoms were related to decreased function of the mesocortical DA system, one would expect treatment with DA agonists to improve negative symptoms of schizophrenia. Various studies have attempted to improve schizophrenic symptoms by increasing DA activity. Most have failed to find clinically meaningful effects (see ref. 38). However, recently the DA reuptake inhibitor, mazindole (2 mg/day), improved negative symptoms as compared to placebo (39). In that study, mazindole or placebo were added to neuroleptic treatment after patients had been stabilized on neuroleptic for 4 weeks. However, well-controlled large studies are needed to explore the efficacy of increasing DA activity in the negative symptoms of schizophrenia, although the data reviewed here certainly encourage such an approach. "
>
>
> Amineptine IS on the market - in Brazil... It's manufactured by Servier Brazil. I have spoke with them and confirmed that it is still in production, under the original brand name Survector.Alright, wait a minute now. What the heck? Does anything make sense?!
They use DA antagonists to reduce the positive symptoms of schizophrenia and now they're using DA agonists to reduce the negative symptoms?? i'm sorry, but how the **** does that work? These doctors think they know what they're doing but they barely have a freaking clue. We don't know what's going on. We think we know how things work but we don't.
i really feel bad for the schizophrenics. They must have it especially bad. i can't imagine..
God help them. and all of us. please. i hope.
Posted by SLS on April 25, 2003, at 7:42:16
In reply to Re: What SDRI is currently on the market? Some..., posted by garylee on April 24, 2003, at 20:10:58
Hi garylee.
> Amineptine IS on the market - in Brazil... It's manufactured by Servier Brazil. I have spoke with them and confirmed that it is still in production, under the original brand name Survector.
I know someone who had been getting amineptine from Brazil for quite awhile. She recently e-mailed me, saying that she couldn't get it there anymore. Can you provide me with the phone number or address of the person you spoke to at Servier? I'd like to help her find an alternate source. She would be greatly appreciative as a combination of amineptine + sulpiride is the only thing that has helped her with depression.
You can e-mail me directly if you are uncomfortable posting the info. Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by garylee on April 25, 2003, at 11:52:33
In reply to Re: What SDRI is currently on the market? Some... » garylee, posted by SLS on April 25, 2003, at 7:42:16
Hi Scott
Just sent you an email. Hope it helps. Please contact me if you find out anymore. It would be appreciated than you'll ever know.
Cheers
Gary
Posted by garylee on April 25, 2003, at 12:07:40
In reply to Re: What SDRI is currently on the market? Some... » garylee, posted by SLS on April 25, 2003, at 7:42:16
Hi Scott
Just re-read you last post. Can you tell me what dose of Sulpiride your friend is taking? Along with my other meds (Klonopin, Seroquel, Donepezil, Lamictal and Mirapex <just started Mirapex>) I take 100mg for social phobia. I have heard of the Amineptine + Sulpiride combo before and it interests me.
Thanks again
Gary
Posted by elegantuniverse on October 7, 2007, at 23:04:02
In reply to What SDRI is currently on the market? Tnx (nm) » btnd, posted by Neo on April 23, 2003, at 12:03:48
I believe Wellbutrin would classify, although it is also a norephinephrine RI as well.
This is the end of the thread.
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