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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ace on April 13, 2003, at 20:58:55
Looking through articles on Tardive dyskinesia I came across www.tardivedyskinesia.org -
After reading the stories I am now very reluctant to try an atypical for my problems.
Does anyone know about this site....is it objective in your opinion. Man...I want relief from my symptoms but at the expense of that...I don't know what to think or do.
When I'm on a drug that works I want to be on it a long time - not just 6months to a year. I ignore Peter Breggin's arguments, but this was something new.
Give me some advice.
Ace.
Posted by missliz on April 14, 2003, at 2:08:08
In reply to Guys I'm scared.... Atypicals and TD, posted by ace on April 13, 2003, at 20:58:55
My personal unpopular opinion is that anti psychotics are a quick easy fix for doctors, but not always the best thing for patients. The shrinks aren't having their brains iced down and having to deal with the side effects are they? I have refused APs for years and found that my quality of life is better- my pdoc has to actually think about what he's doing, and he grumbles, but he gets paid an obscene amount of money and he can damn well make the effort.I use a mood stabilizer, benzos, and an AD and I do well. (Bipolar two, multiple anxiety disorders) This may not be appropriate for your diagnosis, but ask your doc why you need APs and what are some alternative treatments.
Schizophrenics and some bipolar ones absolutely need APs, but they aren't required for a lot of us, just easy. If you aren't actively psychotic, ask your doc why you need these risky drugs and won't some of the other less difficult ones do instead? APs are over prescribed for anxiety disorder and don't really work as well as benzos for it- the drug co marketing machine at work. And if you have to take an AP, remamber that the market is really competitive and better ones come out every year.
Actually, I know old shcizophrenics who've been on Haldol for years and years and don't have any TD. Not everyone gets it, and if you have to take an AP it may not be an issue for you anyway. Besides, what are you gonna do? Run naked and raving in the streets? (Seen it happen ;) )
I think we all get scared and tired when we've tried drug after drug- it's exhausting. Grill your doctor, you may be able to avoid the whole AP issue.missliz
Posted by lauran on April 14, 2003, at 11:24:09
In reply to Re: Guys I'm scared.... Atypicals and TD, posted by missliz on April 14, 2003, at 2:08:08
I have to agree with missliz. I took Seroquel for 15 months and am now dealing with withdrawal symptoms that are much worse than what I took this med for. I took it for anxiety and to help with sleep. I began to feel like a zombie, withdrawing from people and having no motivation. It was stopped abruptly without tapering. It has been six weeks now off this med and I am just now starting to feel some subsiding of the symptoms of withdrawal.
I agree that AP's can be the right med for some people. But I believe they are prescribed way too often for people who really don't need them. Make informed choices and try alternatives if possible. If AP's are the right med for you then by all means pursue that direction. Just be sure to taper slowly off of them if you decide to stop. I cannot emphasis that point enough.
Posted by judy1 on April 14, 2003, at 13:02:14
In reply to Guys I'm scared.... Atypicals and TD, posted by ace on April 13, 2003, at 20:58:55
reading your very rational post it's difficult for me to believe you need an a/p for psychosis- and i firmly believe that is the only reason to take it. having had my moments during manic episodes (running through the streets naked isn't far off :-), i have had to take an a/p until my episode was under control. but once that happens, i go off the a/p- atypical or not, i have had some nasty s/e from this class of med. so, yes, i feel in some cases it's necessary- but only for a limited time (in bipolar 1 situations- i can't address schizophrenia) best of luck-judy
Posted by bookgurl99 on April 14, 2003, at 21:51:33
In reply to Guys I'm scared.... Atypicals and TD, posted by ace on April 13, 2003, at 20:58:55
do you mean an atypical antidepressant, or an anti-psychotic? i'm not sure what "atypical" means?
do you i have to be concerned about getting t.d. with a regular ssri?
Posted by ace on April 14, 2003, at 22:38:43
In reply to what is an atypical? » ace, posted by bookgurl99 on April 14, 2003, at 21:51:33
Posted by missliz on April 15, 2003, at 0:58:35
In reply to An Atypical ANTIPSYCHOTIC eg Zyprexa (nm) » bookgurl99, posted by ace on April 14, 2003, at 22:38:43
Yeah, seroquel was awful- I was taken off benzos and put on it for anxiety by an extremely uninformed doc, and by the time I realized what had happened to me and I took myself off of it, the lush garden off my mind had been reduced to a feild of ashes. Over time I became myself again, but that's a year out of my life I'll never get back.
I'm a realist, and I'll use APs in an emergency, but psych treatment is ultimately about quality of life- choose carefully, and expect good treatment. And never be afraid to "discuss" with your doctor, nobody knows whats up in your head better than the person who lives there. You have a right to question and a right to say no to anything that scares you.missliz
Please excuse the overblown prose, but that's what happened. Seroquel was a very destructive drug for me.
Posted by mags on April 15, 2003, at 13:44:26
In reply to Re: An Atypical ANTIPSYCHOTIC eg Zyprexa, posted by missliz on April 15, 2003, at 0:58:35
Hi Missliz and others,
I am BPII and have been on Seroquel 100 mg for about a year. I was also on Depakote 750 mg, Lithium 500 mg, 150 Wellbutrin, and thyroid med.
I was SERIOUSLY complaining to doc about feeling so FLAT with no energy, so he has taken me off the Depakote and added 40 MG Ritalin.
I can still sleep right through the first 20 MG of Ritalin in the morning. (I don't work, on disability).
Do you think I should be off the Seroquel as well?
I was put on it to help me sleep and stop the business in my head at night. I can't understand why I can sleep so easy in day and not at night without major help. My sleep cycle is almost totally reversed.
Can you tell what you found bad about seroquel?
ANd if I do go off it what I can expect?
I know I could go to the site someone mentioned but to tell you the truth if I read ALL bad news about a drug it can scare me too much....
sorry for long post!!
Mags
Posted by missliz on April 15, 2003, at 15:30:30
In reply to Re: An Atypical ANTIPSYCHOTIC eg Zyprexa, posted by mags on April 15, 2003, at 13:44:26
So he took you off the moodstabilizer, which you probably really need, and given you speed? This is typical of how little doctors understand what it's actually like to live with meds.
Seroquel will make you feel flat, but I'm not your doctor and not the person to say whether you should be on it. I can only tell you it's really dicey stuff, read up on it, pester your doc with questions. You can say no to it. It's your desicion what meds you think help or hurt and what you'll take. When I quit it, I felt creepy for a couple of weeks from all the blank out Seroquel did to my brain but recovered as my brain adjusted and am much better in the long run.
If you sleep all day, you aren't sleepy at night. I'm on dis also, and the lack of structure in our days lets us slip off the usual schedule. This isn't nessacarily all your problem, I'm not your doctor, but it's your responsibility to have something to do all day, even if you only show up at day treatment. There's plenty of volunteer work around, you can take a course if you qualify for Pell grant money to pay for it, find something to do with your life. Get a hobby. It's boring to sit around, and it'll make you feel flat and lousy to be lonely and bored. If you have something to get up and out for, you'll get back on schedule. It's not easy, and people with other types of disability have the same problem. Worth working on though.missliz
Posted by judy1 on April 16, 2003, at 9:50:14
In reply to Re: An Atypical ANTIPSYCHOTIC eg Zyprexa, posted by mags on April 15, 2003, at 13:44:26
unless you have ADD (some people on this forum have bipolar and ADD), I don't understand the addition of ritalin. You seem pretty over-medicated for a person with bp2, and there is a lot of literature contraindicating ADs in bipolar patients (particularly those who rapid cycle).As I posted before, unless you are actively psychotic, there is no place for an a/p in your med regime- a benzo would be a far better choice if you have anxiety. The sleeping problem probably is just a matter of getting your body acclimated to staying up during the day- it takes a while (I know as a relatively new Mom). I would seek a second opinion from a pdoc and address your fears of the meds you are on. best of luck-judy
Posted by missliz on April 16, 2003, at 12:56:21
In reply to Re: An Atypical ANTIPSYCHOTIC eg Zyprexa, posted by mags on April 15, 2003, at 13:44:26
Judy is right- your meds are a strange choice, mags, and a second opinion is called for. The treatment for bipolar two is usually a mood stabilizer, and an anti depressent, and very often a benzodiazepine. Anti psychotics for people who aren't actively psychotic is for the convenience of doctors, not the best interest of the patient. It also has a lot to do with drug company marketing- theres a lot of money to be made off of psychiatric patients because we have no voice and little advocacy to protect us from being used as human sacrifice for the benefit of the stockholders. It's just like the cigarette makers- they don't care how brutally they wreck peoples health.
I feel it's not my place to tell you to go off a med- thats your choice. Ritalin is used as an anti depressent, but doesn't work very well over the long term. The Seroquel is, in my opinion, a bad drug for anybody other than the schizophrenics it was developed for. It was largly ignored till recently, then they apparently hired a marketing firm. I've been harrassed by Seroquel reps in the powder room at my Pdocs clinic. Bad sign.
Depakote will make you fat and flat. The new favorite first linr drug is Trileptal, which I'm on now and VERY impressed with. There's a new drug called Strattera wich is used for ADD and as an antideppressent, but it isn't speed, it's something all new and nonaddicting. BP2s often are mired down at the lower half of mood cycles and need a boost, and this drug is really impressive for me so far.
There are lots of more constructive options, and you need to educate yourself and feel free to disagree with your doc. It's your life, and you deserve better care. If he doesn't want to be a team player find somebody who will be.missliz
Posted by mags on April 16, 2003, at 17:29:26
In reply to Re: An Atypical ANTIPSYCHOTIC eg Zyprexa, posted by mags on April 15, 2003, at 13:44:26
Thanks miss liz and judy,
I really appreciate your comments and concerns.
I guess I should have mentioned that my doc is very open to suggestions and changes etc. I have total confidence in him and he does listen.Problem is we are going around in circles a lot of the time. I am very prone to side effects and so we keep playing with meds. I was on Ativan for sleep but it turned me into a suicidal zombie. AD's caused hypomania and I would get all excited thinking I had found my magic pill. Then the inevitable crash would come. It took awhile to figure out I was BP.
I have been hospitalized a number of times (once for three months)and also had ECT's to no avail. The Depakote was for cycling but doc feels that was what was making me flat.
My biggest comcern is the cycling from low to suicidal. As you said with BPll it isn't the highs that are a concern but the lows(I would give anything for a high right now!) but I know a major crash always follows.
Although the Seroquel may be not the best choice it has given me the much needed peace at night.
The Ritalin is to try and get me up and at it...
Although on Disability I do have kids to look after and I try to get to some of the group therapy at the hospital.
I made myself go to bed last night at 11:00 PM and laid in bed for hours tossing and turning. I also made myself get up at 7:00 Am this morning. I am VERY tired right now and hoping to get to sleep tonight...
again thanks for support, sorry for rambling!
Mags
Posted by missliz on April 17, 2003, at 22:24:16
In reply to Thanks for support miss liz and judy (long post), posted by mags on April 16, 2003, at 17:29:26
You're completely welcome, Miss mags. Anytime.
I wonder, though, If ADs are giving you hypo mania, that's leaning more into BP1. If you feel the Seroquel is helping you now, then its helping you. Just as long as you're educated about what you're taking and have a say in the matter. Too many patients just take the little pill they're told to, and too many docs just throw drugs at people. Self awareness and education are the core of getting better, and you can get better. I've trod the same path you have, just refused the ECT, too creepy. Went to school and got a Masters instead, depressed and nutty but at least distracted from it. You have to have a self and a life, don't get caught in the"I am my diagnoses trap". It's dehumanizing.
Ask about the new anti seizure/ mood stabilizer drugs like Trieptal or Zonegren(?). I think that"s the name, I've been on so many. The newer drugs don't have the "flat and fat" effect Depakote is famous for, and do well at keeping you off the bottom of the pit. Ther's better meds than you're on, and more coming out this year. I think you'll br amazed at the difference they can make.missliz
Posted by mags on April 18, 2003, at 14:11:33
In reply to Re: Thanks for support miss liz and judy (long po, posted by missliz on April 17, 2003, at 22:24:16
Thanks again missliz..
I will keep checking and discussing new meds with my doc...
You should be SO PROUD of yourself getting your Masters!!! WOW...I am very impressed..I am definately going to have to try harder..I find it hard some days to read the newspaper!Mags
This is the end of the thread.
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