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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by japonica on April 4, 2003, at 9:42:46
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » Sean9, posted by luckyspec on April 3, 2003, at 1:45:28
I'll assume you will convey your beliefs about medication and its professed, but errant, ability to control illness to your doctor when you are diagnosed with high blood pressure, heart disease, cancer, diabetes, or any number of serious medical illnesses like depression.
You are grievously uninformed. Please take the time to expand *your* mind and truly educate yourself about depression before you or someone you love needs your support.
Thanks
japonica
Posted by japonica on April 4, 2003, at 10:01:36
In reply to Effexor XR sucesses?, posted by Paco on April 3, 2003, at 21:56:29
I have had *great* success with Effexor XR. Had virtually no side effects when starting and continue to feel well. I have put on some weight after an initial loss but it's manageable. If that's the worst thing that happens in the course of my year it's been a pretty good one. I've been on it for 6 months and have slowly ramped up to 150 mgs. a day taken at mid-morning. This is where I plan to stay.
I took Prozac a while back. Had much success. I stopped then started again and the second time 'round it no longer worked. This is a commom occurence as I've come to understand. I tried Zoloft right before the Effexor and did not like it at all. It left me feeling very foggy and sluggish. Hope this helps.
Best to all. Thanks for the support you all provide.
japonica
Posted by DeeDee46 on April 4, 2003, at 10:20:18
In reply to Re: Effexor XR sucesses?, posted by japonica on April 4, 2003, at 10:01:36
You are going to be fine........ I can tell. Good Luck!!! I agree,,,,a weight gain is just a cross in the road.....
DeeDee46
Posted by KRM123 on April 4, 2003, at 11:28:03
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated luckyspec » luckyspec, posted by Napaba on April 4, 2003, at 9:22:14
Wow- I just wanted to tell you that I thought your post was amazing. Thank you for sharing- it brought a tear to my eye. I agree with everything you said. God Bless
Posted by KRM123 on April 4, 2003, at 11:46:20
In reply to Re: Effexor XR sucesses? » KRM123, posted by Paco on April 3, 2003, at 23:07:07
Thanks Paco
The Dr. says I have double depression- a condition in which a major depressive disorder is superimposed upon a dysthymic disorder.
I have tried Prozac and Zoloft in the past- prob for only gave them 2 months each before I discovered weight gain and not really making a difference.
At the beginning of March I tried Wellbutrin for 2 weeks and it messed me up bad- horrible experience...I think my dose was too high. From there I went straight to Lexapro- 3 weeks on that but I'm done with it cause it makes me so tired.
Now it's off to Effexor.
Posted by Napaba on April 4, 2003, at 13:34:46
In reply to Re: Effexor XR sucesses?Paco, posted by KRM123 on April 4, 2003, at 11:46:20
> Give Effexor a chance. I've tried Wellbutrin, Prozac, and Paxil. I gained weight on all three. I've been on Effexor for about 10 weeks and have lost 23 pounds. I didn't start losing until I was on it for 3 weeks.
Also think about why you eat. Do you eat because your depressed and/or anxious, if you do the medication should help once it lessons your depression and anxiety.
I've also been on a diet like Atkins. Low carb is the way to go. You get to eat more and are full.
Thanks Paco
>
> The Dr. says I have double depression- a condition in which a major depressive disorder is superimposed upon a dysthymic disorder.
>
> I have tried Prozac and Zoloft in the past- prob for only gave them 2 months each before I discovered weight gain and not really making a difference.
>
> At the beginning of March I tried Wellbutrin for 2 weeks and it messed me up bad- horrible experience...I think my dose was too high. From there I went straight to Lexapro- 3 weeks on that but I'm done with it cause it makes me so tired.
>
> Now it's off to Effexor.
>
Posted by DeeDee46 on April 4, 2003, at 13:41:47
In reply to Re: Effexor XR sucesses?Paco » KRM123, posted by Napaba on April 4, 2003, at 13:34:46
Yes.. give effexor a fair chance.. I wish I would of lost weight. I gained but I am also eating low carbs and more protein and it is working slowly. But that is ok.
I didnt eat more because of emotions. I was so hungry all the time and my psych told me that can happen with it. When I went down to 37.5mg, I noticed a big change in my appetite. So maybe in time, I can get my weight to where it is supposed to be. However, I would take weight over depression any day. If I feel good, at least I can go out and walk.
Hang in there
DeeDee46
Posted by melley on April 4, 2003, at 15:22:54
In reply to Re: Effexor XR sucesses?Paco » KRM123, posted by Napaba on April 4, 2003, at 13:34:46
Hi all,
I was thinking of asking my Dr. if I could switch to welbutrin. What has been people's experience with this drug?
Also, there was an excellent program on depression on the Dianne Rehm show on NPR this morning. You can listen to it by going to the NPR website and then to the Diane Rehm show.
Thanks
Posted by DeeDee46 on April 4, 2003, at 15:29:37
In reply to Welbutrin?, posted by melley on April 4, 2003, at 15:22:54
I tried it. I did ok as far as depression but my stomach could not handle it for some reason. I do have a really sensitive stomach though.
Posted by Napaba on April 4, 2003, at 15:54:18
In reply to Welbutrin?, posted by melley on April 4, 2003, at 15:22:54
> I had a hard time remembering to take it twice a day. So it didn't do much for me. Out of the 14 pills I should have taken a week I was probably taking five. But I have a friend who takes it with Effexor and says this is the best she's felt sence her life fell apart a couple of years a go.
>
> Hi all,
>
> I was thinking of asking my Dr. if I could switch to welbutrin. What has been people's experience with this drug?
>
> Also, there was an excellent program on depression on the Dianne Rehm show on NPR this morning. You can listen to it by going to the NPR website and then to the Diane Rehm show.
>
> Thanks
Posted by hageshe on April 4, 2003, at 17:30:18
In reply to Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated, posted by juanantoniod on February 8, 2003, at 22:11:31
Higly over rated huh? I doubt you have gone through it. I tappered down over a month and am virtually incapacitated. I don't dare drive a vehicle and I have had to take a leave of absense from work. I am having severe and constant "brain shivers" as I have found many others are complaining of. Specifically, these "shivers" if you will, are somehow connected to eye movement and eye focus and they include ear ringing and short, bursty, miniture black outs. I have had them for days now and it is getting much worse. I also broke into several nasty sweats, headaches, and cold spells.
For what it is worth, I have suffered once in the past from food poisoning that I nearly died from. Until I had these "brain shivers" I would say that the 5-day food poison episode was the worst I ever felt...not any more.
I am a 36 year old 6'6" 275lb Military vet and I am no hypochondriac sir. This stuff sucks and if it does not subdue soon I will most certainly contact a lawyer. Why? Because there is obviously many people suffering from this crap and it is going completely ignored by the manufacturer. This is completely unacceptable.
Posted by hageshe on April 4, 2003, at 17:44:34
In reply to Re: any sexual side effects? » Elaine, posted by Tina P on February 3, 2003, at 12:30:07
> Hey, Elaine, I'm in the same boat as you are with the lack of desire. I just switched from Paxil to Effexor XL and I'm waiting to feel some changes. Did you find yourself a bit emotional during that transition period? Any weight issues?
Hi, I'm a 36yr male. Have been on Effexor XR for 3+ years. It is ruining my life. It was wrecked my sexual functions (no drive, no ejaculation, no orgasm...once in a while I can ejaculate but it is comes out whenever...no control). And the bad part is that I don't really care about the sexual part. The other problems:
-Can't focus eyes (this is a documented problem)
-Can't get energized (seriously risking my employment)
- can't think/concentrate (my IQ is 165...and I am a internationally rated chess player; well I was before Effexor)
- high blood pressure (another documented problem) I was once ready to try out for the US Olympic bike team...rode 400 miles per day. My blood pressure was as good as it gets.
- weight gain (how about 100lbs? sound fun? I was 185lb...now 285.)
- No "zest" for life...didn't think of killing myself anymore after starting Effexor...but found I had no desire to get up in the morning anymore.There's more mind you.
Oh, and now that I have been working to get the heck off this terrible drug I am having withdrawal like nothing I could have ever imagined and the carppy maker of the drug acts like there is no problem whatsoever with withdrawl. OH MY GOD! I can't believe that a person is actually having to take apart capsules to remove individual balls on or two at a time over the period of several months AND THEY STILL HAVE WITHDRAWAL!
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 4, 2003, at 18:16:05
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated, posted by hageshe on April 4, 2003, at 17:30:18
hageshe,
You wrote,[...will contact a lawyer...].
Below is a link about a law suit , I believe, involves effexor in some way.
http://society.guardian.co.uk/mentalhealth/story/0,8150,547606,00.html
Best regards,
Lou
Posted by hageshe on April 4, 2003, at 18:17:15
In reply to Re: withdrawal » Maisy, posted by Lynnads on February 4, 2003, at 10:17:23
PLEASE tell me if your symptoms have subdued/continued. I am literally going out of my mind trying to get off this drug!!!!!!!!
r_man70 @ yahoo.com
Posted by PuraVida on April 4, 2003, at 18:36:07
In reply to Re: any sexual side effects?, posted by hageshe on April 4, 2003, at 17:44:34
Hagashe and others,
I have had a lot of similar problems with motivation, which I am sure in turn have affected my weight and general health. BUT I started having these problems pre-effexor, but they have been more noticeable now, because the depression has lifted. I am researching the possibility that I may have adult ADD, of which these motivation/cognition problems are a part of. I'm wondering if the depression was caused by the ADD, and now that the depression is pretty muych gone, it has unmasked the ADD. Just a thought. There is a good diagnostic at www.mindfixers.com.
PV
> -Can't get energized (seriously risking my employment)
> - can't think/concentrate (my IQ is 165...and I am a internationally rated chess player; well I was before Effexor)
> - No "zest" for life...didn't think of killing myself anymore after starting Effexor...but found I had no desire to get up in the morning anymore.
Posted by hageshe on April 4, 2003, at 19:03:55
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated luckyspec, posted by luckyspec on April 3, 2003, at 17:44:50
Yeah, I have had several of those observations and thoughts too....but they are only trivial intellectual meanderings and not serious treatment for a serious problem. Consider this one: If they didn't treat Depression before the drug industry existed, they also didn't treat cancer and baterial infections. What happened? People died. What happens when a brilliant mind is overcome with Depression? Perhaps the missed opportunity to reach full potential (if not with certainty).
Although being an intellectual myself and also suffering from despression, I also have opportunities to contemplate where the root of the problem resides. I think there is truth to some of the things you say (for instance, people most certainly do need to deal with thier problems, and yes, sadness is a very desireable part of life).
What bothers me most is this thought: There is no money in finding a cure; only treatment. I mean, drug companies won't make money from curing. Doing this would remove the recurring revenue from those ever-so-convenient daily dosages. And a weekly or monthly or yearly treatment doesn't fit well enough with the insurance industry's system: the $20 deductable for a 30-day supply.
So, having such brilliant minds all working together to find a treatment and avoid a cure....what a sad thing. The drug companies must be very proud of themselves. I wonder if they came across the cure and set it aside in favor of a treatment? I think so.
And worse, if the cure is something they can't patent (such as Grapefruit Seed Extract....St. Johns Wart....others) they have no interest in sharing the good news. If they did they could sit back and watch their revenue dry up.
Has anyone every read "The Yeast Connection"? A very interesting theory of yeast as a root cause for depression...which I think has real potential. In fact, I am going to try it. After all, what causes the famous "chemical imbalance in the brain" that is making the drug companies so rich? Perhaps the lack of a simple enzyme produced by a process somewhere in the digestive system? Well, if that sounds crazy, consider that the deadly poisons like cyanide stop the bodily enzymes that allow the brain to extract oxygen from the blood. Did you know food like Almonds have cyanide in them? Hmmm, not that I am saying everyone with depression needs to stop eating Almonds....hardly. Just that common folk like us don't have the luxury of finding root causes for systemic illnesses; the best we can expect is to kep trying these daily dose treatments.
More food for thought: Once upon a time the US Govt. invested in research institutes that looked for cures. When was the last cure for anything developed? I can't think of it happening in my lifetime....just more daily dose treatments. I wonder if thr drug companies have lobbied Congress to put a stop to the "cures" so they can enjoy the spoils of the daily dose system?
Posted by luckyspec on April 4, 2003, at 19:29:28
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » luckyspec, posted by japonica on April 4, 2003, at 9:42:46
Well...actually, about cancer,
I hear there are therapies...
But what do I know.I hear there are ways of treating Cancer that do not destroy the immune system...Yes actually did you know that radiation destroys your immune systems ability to fight disease? It destroys you, radiation does.
Interestingly enough all of the cancer patients I have read about and heard about, after their so called radiation therapy gets rid of their tumor, the tumor would reapear. But ofcourse it is prescribed by a doctor, the radiation is. I am not saying I have all the answers. I just know of a couple. I do not know this personally; as in first hand. But I read that cancer can be treated.
But I am learning. I can not talk. I dare not talk until I see it for myself first hand. I can only point into the direction.So do the research for yourself-
American Odessey- Book edited by Mary Higgins Boyd. If you are interested about an 'uncurable' disease...
Ofcourse, it is not my knowledge so do not place me in the middle of it. I am only a messenger, even though I've been shot, I am.Also-
http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/has some interesting information...seems promising-who knows- I am only doing research
Thank you
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2003, at 19:34:59
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » luckyspec, posted by japonica on April 4, 2003, at 9:42:46
> I'll assume you will convey your beliefs about medication and its professed, but errant, ability to control illness to your doctor when you are diagnosed with high blood pressure, heart disease, cancer, diabetes, or any number of serious medical illnesses like depression.
>
> You are grievously uninformed. Please take the time to expand *your* mind and truly educate yourself about depression before you or someone you love needs your support.Please be sensitive to the feelings of others and don't be sarcastic or
post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down, thanks.Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2003, at 19:38:39
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » japonica, posted by luckyspec on April 4, 2003, at 19:29:28
> Has anyone every read "The Yeast Connection"?
> American Odessey- Book edited by Mary Higgins Boyd.
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by luckyspec on April 4, 2003, at 19:59:37
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated luckyspec, posted by hageshe on April 4, 2003, at 19:03:55
Quite an interesting thought process have you.
I know much of what you speak. Understand that I am not asking you to stop taking a 'necessary evil'. I know that it is necessary. Otherwise you would not need it, would you?
I am asking you to open your minds. To learn about other potential methods of treatment. Other ways of dealing with problems. Deal with them yes.
I am learning that in the industrialized countries the spread of cancer and such disease is higher then in non industrialized countries. But I could be wrong in that.. I understand that you heard drug companies lobbied or you think they might, or could in order to prevent an actual cure. Correct you are in that.
If you have watched Problem Solvers ...it is a news channel program. I think channel 4. They have done an entire hour on the Pharmeceutical Industry. One interesting fact they have pointed out was that a company has 10 years of patent rights on a drug which no other company can sell for that duration. You would think that after 10 years the generic brands can start to sell drugs, and you would be fooling yourself because something else happens.
What usually happens after 10 years; the drug gets changed a tiny bit..instead of it being normal, now it is time released or has a different use ie. Asperin is now a 'Daily Therapy' for heart patients(it is used to thin blood). This allows the company to extend the patent by another 10 years. Sad but true. This is but one practice that the Pharmaceutical industry has perfected.
You are right, there is little you can do as an individual. Or is there. That is another paradox. One man has changed the world I recall...One man has changed the country also...It takes but one.
I am just asking you to open your mind and see the truth instead of hiding behind false hope, that one day you will be ok. That day is today. I believe in all of you, that you can do well.
But I am no one.
Posted by luckyspec on April 4, 2003, at 20:01:44
In reply to Re: please be civil » japonica, posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2003, at 19:34:59
Sometimes I'm wondering if Dr. Bob is a list of generic replies...
Posted by luckyspec on April 4, 2003, at 20:08:37
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » hageshe, posted by Lou Pilder on April 4, 2003, at 18:16:05
The lawsuit alleges that the manufacturer, GlaxoSmithKline, has deliberately failed to warn doctors and patients that Paxil/Seroxat can cause severe withdrawal reactions. It says that the company has wrongly claimed the bad reactions are caused by a relapse into depression when people stop the drug, yet some people experience symptoms when they stop taking the drug which they did not have before they first took it.
Interesting...very.
Thank you for your information.Sincerely,
Luckyspec
Posted by luckyspec on April 4, 2003, at 20:11:08
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » hageshe, posted by Lou Pilder on April 4, 2003, at 18:16:05
With SSRIs that linger in the system for longer, by the time the symptoms appear it may seem that depression has set in again - and so the doctor's answer is another SSRI prescription.
_____
I am curious at the word used in this paragraph...'seem'.
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 4, 2003, at 20:35:02
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » Lou Pilder, posted by luckyspec on April 4, 2003, at 20:11:08
uckyspeck,
I think that the passage that you refer to here, is importing that the doctors make a [hasty genralization] by conluding that the withdrawal is depression and not withdrawal and hence, the doctor creates a cycle of more psychotropic drugs by issuing another drug, hence creating even a bigger problem to the suffering paitiant. How do you see it?
Lou
Posted by luckyspec on April 4, 2003, at 21:25:14
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » luckyspec, posted by Lou Pilder on April 4, 2003, at 20:35:02
> uckyspeck,
> I think that the passage that you refer to here, is importing that the doctors make a [hasty genralization] by conluding that the withdrawal is depression and not withdrawal and hence, the doctor creates a cycle of more psychotropic drugs by issuing another drug, hence creating even a bigger problem to the suffering paitiant. How do you see it?
> Lou
>Lou,
I am talking about a problem with drugs. In the article it shows that we had drugs that were highly addictive and then the drug companies changed the form of addiction.-GlaxoSmithKline insists there is no problem with its drug. "There is absolutely no reliable scientific evidence that Paxil is addictive or leads to dependence," said a spokesman.
He added: "As far as we're concerned, all of the regulatory bodies are quite happy with the product."
But Social Audit, which has monitored antidepressant drugs for decades, sees history repeating itself. Morphine was used for years to treat opium addiction. Barbiturates, found to be horribly addictive, were replaced by the benzodiazepines - such as Librium, Valium and Mogadon - which were liberally prescribed as safer and non-addictive. Then came Ativan, which like Paxil/Seroxat had a short half-life, and the symptoms of benzodiazepine dependence became clear.
The SSRIs have largely taken their place, but according to Mr Medawar, little has changed.
http://society.guardian.co.uk/mentalhealth/story/0,8150,547606,00.html
As you can plainly see from reading this...there is nothing wrong with addiction. No it simply does not exist in the 'scientific evidence' realm. And the withdrawls you feel are simply your depression kicking in again. How nice, that must mean that if I were a smoker then stopped cold turkey, I must have depression, because I felt like shit by not smoking something.
Along finer lines we have an article from the same website that reads as follows:
Princess Diana was right: counselling is good for you. After it was satirised for years as the touchy-feely sharing of pain, a major medical investigation has confirmed therapy works.
In a £500,000 project, patients receiving treatment for depression and anxiety were closely monitored. After four months, therapy had reduced their depressive symptoms 'to a significantly greater extent' than GP care, which usually involves anti-depressant drugs.
__________________http://society.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,7838,406218,00.html
Sincerely,
Luckyspec
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