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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by daizy on March 3, 2003, at 13:11:53
Have had a really rough time of the last few days. Feeling very sluggish and tired. Ive also not been able to stop thinking about everything and anything. Anyone relate? I just get horrible dark thoughts, and then start thinking about how good my life used to be, and how Im wasting time, also thoughts of death.
They have reduced my anxiety by some, but I just feel more depressed. I also got this with effexor. I dont get it, arent AD's supposed to stop depression not cause it??? When my anxiety drops down the scale, my depression goes up. I need suggestions :-(
Posted by zeugma on March 3, 2003, at 14:19:15
In reply to TCA's, cant stop thinking....Need HELP, posted by daizy on March 3, 2003, at 13:11:53
> Have had a really rough time of the last few days. Feeling very sluggish and tired. Ive also not been able to stop thinking about everything and anything. Anyone relate? I just get horrible dark thoughts, and then start thinking about how good my life used to be, and how Im wasting time, also thoughts of death.
>
> They have reduced my anxiety by some, but I just feel more depressed. I also got this with effexor. I dont get it, arent AD's supposed to stop depression not cause it??? When my anxiety drops down the scale, my depression goes up. I need suggestions :-(I think anxiety can serve as a distraction from depressing thoughts. (When I'm anxious, I can't think about anything at all.) Maybe now you're calmer and able to assess your situation- naturally it sucks being on medication for anxiety and depression. I started thinking about suicide for the first time in many years last October after a few months on a TCA. I know that part of it was simply that I could think about things without the constant distraction of anxiety. I could see that many years had gone by and it was still hard to do anything and basically my life was mostly unlived; who wouldn't feel bitter about that? It's been about five months since I've had suicidal thoughts; partly that's because of the progress I've made and partly that's because of the Buspar I added in December.
I think TCA's are good for clearing the fog and getting a dose of reality; the only problem is that sometimes reality can be depressing as hell. TCA's also affect *emotion* differently from other AD's in my opinion. They seem to create a more emotional state than SSRI's so it's possible to brood on negative feelings. This is NOT an unhealthy thing, but it can make it seem like the drug isn't working to get rid of the depression. I brought this up with my doctor several times and he agreed that the reason I felt worse was that my emotional responses were actually becoming more normal. That wasn't very consoling at the time, but in the long run I think he was right. Hope this helps
Posted by linkadge on March 3, 2003, at 17:04:12
In reply to Re: TCA's, cant stop thinking....my experiences » daizy, posted by zeugma on March 3, 2003, at 14:19:15
which TCA are you on. The symptoms you tell,
sound like an imballence between serotonin and
norepinephrine. Are you on Nortriptaline ?
You might want to try Amytryptaline. THis
raises serotonin to a greater degree than
nortryptaline.Linkadge
Posted by zeugma on March 3, 2003, at 17:34:35
In reply to Re: TCA's, cant stop thinking....my experiences, posted by linkadge on March 3, 2003, at 17:04:12
> which TCA are you on. The symptoms you tell,
> sound like an imballence between serotonin and
> norepinephrine. Are you on Nortriptaline ?
> You might want to try Amytryptaline. THis
> raises serotonin to a greater degree than
> nortryptaline.
>
> LinkadgeYes, I'm on nortriptyline.
I thought about switching to amitriptyline back when my insomnia was still severe. Also I was thinking its greater serotonin effect would help my mood. Buspar helped with that; it's a serotonin agonist, and my mood improved immediately.
Posted by linkadge on March 3, 2003, at 19:07:38
In reply to Re: TCA's, cant stop thinking....my experiences » linkadge, posted by zeugma on March 3, 2003, at 17:34:35
When you have too much norepinephrine (go chemical) and too little serotonin. (inhibitory) You will find it difficult to find peace. You might have very strong emotions that make tremendous sence but are very painful.
I too felt like this while on Effexor. I wasn't quite sad enough to be 'depressed' but couldn't stop thinking - sad songs - sad emotions - death life etc. When I switched to Celexa. All of this stopped immediately. I was much more peaceful and content. [though *much* less about death]
If depends of course on which chemicals need adjustment with you. Nortryptaline has little/no
effect on serotonin. You *may* find relief with a more serotogenic med.Good Luck
Linkadge
Posted by KrissyP on March 3, 2003, at 23:03:45
In reply to Re: TCA's, cant stop thinking....my experiences, posted by linkadge on March 3, 2003, at 19:07:38
I felt like what you speak of-"couldn't stop thinking - sad songs - sad emotions - death life etc" when I wasn't on Effexor-BUT I had moved to a different state to take a summer course last summer and the 1 year anniversary of 9/11 hit. I cried sooooooo bad. I wonder if it was stress or depression because I was ON Effexor at the time. Very weird. Anyone have any opinion? It would be greatly appreciated. I actually think you just explained it here-"When you have too much norepinephrine (go chemical) and too little serotonin. (inhibitory) You will find it difficult to find peace. You might have very strong emotions that make tremendous sence but are very painful". I'm a sensitive girl.
Do you think it does depend upon course on which chemicals need adjustment with you.?
Thanks in advance, I am really wondering.
Kristen
Posted by daizy on March 4, 2003, at 7:29:39
In reply to Re: TCA's, cant stop thinking....my experiences, posted by linkadge on March 3, 2003, at 17:04:12
> which TCA are you on. The symptoms you tell,
> sound like an imballence between serotonin and
> norepinephrine. Are you on Nortriptaline ?
> You might want to try Amytryptaline. THis
> raises serotonin to a greater degree than
> nortryptaline.
>
> Linkadge
Im on amitriptyline now, a quite amall dose, I think you might be right about the seratonin. I think that because of previous drug use, I have depleted a lot anyway! SSRI's and SNRI's just reminded me of being on drugs, so thats why they didnt work for me. I havnt had a proper diagnosis but its something like panic dissorder, and depression, but the anxiety being the worst. TCA's seem to be less harsh, and dont have many side effects for me. I think I need more dopamine! Thats where the suggestion of something like Buspar sounds like it might work???
Posted by KrissyP on March 4, 2003, at 11:27:18
In reply to Re: TCA's, cant stop thinking....my experiences, posted by daizy on March 4, 2003, at 7:29:39
Just my experience... I hope it helps a little. BuSpar did not help the anxiety ASAP. It took too long to work and I was so anxious at the time, I didn't want to wait, plus I also broke out and had headaches-I stick with the benzos.
BuSpar may work for you though.
All the best,
Kristen
which TCA are you on. The symptoms you tell,
sound like an imballence between serotonin and
norepinephrine. Are you on Nortriptaline ?
You might want to try Amytryptaline. THis
raises serotonin to a greater degree than nortryptaline.
Linkadge
>
>
> Im on amitriptyline now, a quite amall dose, I think you might be right about the seratonin. I think that because of previous drug use, I have depleted a lot anyway! SSRI's and SNRI's just reminded me of being on drugs, so thats why they didnt work for me. I havnt had a proper diagnosis but its something like panic dissorder, and depression, but the anxiety being the worst. TCA's seem to be less harsh, and dont have many side effects for me. I think I need more dopamine! Thats where the suggestion of something like Buspar sounds like it might work???
Posted by linkadge on March 5, 2003, at 13:15:35
In reply to Re: TCA's, cant stop thinking....my experiences » daizy, posted by KrissyP on March 4, 2003, at 11:27:18
Amytryptaline has aproximately equal reputake
of serotonin and norepiniphrine. The other tend to lean more towards the norepinephrine side.Anxiety can be influenced by both imbalences.
For instance.Too much Serotonin and not enough norepephrine,
can make *some* nervous that they might not be capable enough for to do something.But - Too much norephinephrine will make it difficult to stop thinking about an upcoming event.
When I was on Just celexa, I felt very nervous,
because I felt incapable. But when on Remeron, I felt capable, but just couldn't stop thinking about the upcoming event.
Linkadge
Posted by daizy on March 5, 2003, at 15:50:20
In reply to Re: TCA's, cant stop thinking....my experiences, posted by linkadge on March 5, 2003, at 13:15:35
> Amytryptaline has aproximately equal reputake
> of serotonin and norepiniphrine. The other tend to lean more towards the norepinephrine side.
>
> Anxiety can be influenced by both imbalences.
> For instance.
>
> Too much Serotonin and not enough norepephrine,
> can make *some* nervous that they might not be capable enough for to do something.
>
> But - Too much norephinephrine will make it difficult to stop thinking about an upcoming event.
>
> When I was on Just celexa, I felt very nervous,
> because I felt incapable. But when on Remeron, I felt capable, but just couldn't stop thinking about the upcoming event.
>
>
> LinkadgeIs it possible to combine the two to get a perfect result?!!!!!!!!!!! What meds did the trick?
This is the end of the thread.
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