![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by IsoM on January 25, 2003, at 16:26:39
Larry, please excuse me for not doing my own homework on this but there's been so much happening in my life, taking up my time, & taxing my brain, that I'm asking you a favour, please & even, PRETTY please!
1. Do all liquid cod liver oils sold in store shelves have basically the same levels of EFAs & vitamin A & D levels? Are they blended from a variety of sources that tend to equalize the nutrients?
2. Could you find the amount of ALA, EPA, & DHA in the omega-3 levels in cod liver oil (giving the measurements per volume of oil)?
3. Does cod liver oil contain any GLA, or is that only found in plant sources?
4. And lastly, does cod liver oil contain any CLA? Or is that strictly found in herbivores?
I do know what all the acronyms mean so there's no need to explain about them & what they do, it's just what amounts & what kinds are found in cod liver oil. I'd so appreciate this help now.
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 29, 2003, at 18:05:27
In reply to for Larry Hoover - about liquid cod liver oil, posted by IsoM on January 25, 2003, at 16:26:39
> Larry, please excuse me for not doing my own homework on this but there's been so much happening in my life, taking up my time, & taxing my brain, that I'm asking you a favour, please & even, PRETTY please!
Glad to help. I've been on the road for the last five days, or I'd have replied sooner.
> 1. Do all liquid cod liver oils sold in store shelves have basically the same levels of EFAs & vitamin A & D levels?
Different refining processes, and possibly different fish stock (raw materials) might skew the numbers a bit, but unless the label says otherwise, I'd go with the standard data found in the USDA database, or similar.
E.g. the USDA has 22:6 at 11% by weight, and 20:5 at 6.9%. Vitamins A and D are sometimes reduced in some products, both to procure a natural source of these vitamins for A and D supplements, and to permit a higher volume of cod liver oil to be safely consumed without risk of toxicity.
>Are they blended from a variety of sources that tend to equalize the nutrients?
I don't think there are more than a few sources of cod liver oil (wholesalers), who supply all the various distributors. I'd expect one oil to be much like any other.
> 2. Could you find the amount of ALA, EPA, & DHA in the omega-3 levels in cod liver oil (giving the measurements per volume of oil)?
EPA 6.9%
DHA 11%
18:3 (presumably ALA), just under one per cent.Those are by weight, but as the product is all lipid, the same percentages hold true for volume.
> 3. Does cod liver oil contain any GLA, or is that only found in plant sources?The only (good) sources I know are plants.
> 4. And lastly, does cod liver oil contain any CLA? Or is that strictly found in herbivores?Sunflower oil has some CLA. Certainly milk and beef have some, but I'm less sure if that's from diet or metabolic conversion. In any case, pasture-fed beef and dairy are the best sources, but all common meats have some CLA. Butter is an excellent source, particularly if you can find free-range fed dairy cattle as a source. Or, drink whole milk from pastured cows.
> I do know what all the acronyms mean so there's no need to explain about them & what they do, it's just what amounts & what kinds are found in cod liver oil. I'd so appreciate this help now.You're welcome. I like questions, just so you know.
Lar
Posted by IsoM on January 29, 2003, at 18:59:49
In reply to Re: for Larry Hoover - about liquid cod liver oil » IsoM, posted by Larry Hoover on January 29, 2003, at 18:05:27
I've had so many things coming at me from too many directions that I feel my brain is scrambled. My normally astute memory is shot & I'm having trouble knowing whether something is a memory from a vivid dream or a poorly installed memory. So any help right now is much appreciated. When these external factors finally get looked after, I'll find my mind among the left-overs & get back to normal. Surprisingly, I'm not getting depressed over everything but I can feel the physical & mental effects of the prolonged stresses.
I'm looking for a reliable source of grass fed meat, chicken, pork, & beef. I think there's a source of emu meat near me but I'll have to hunt for it. Now that we're really (for a certainty!!) going to have our own place, I'm going to get a couple of chickens. I love the silly critters & two chickens become best friends - no pecking order - & they'll lay all the eggs I need. I'm sure CLAs are found in the milk (& therefore butter), but maybe it'll be in the eggs from my chickens too.
Now a question about EPA conversion to DHA, if you don't mind. Humans are supposed to be able to make all the DHA needed from available EPA. Do you agree, or are there disruptions to the pathway because of diff reasons? Personally, I've thought that unless one's nutrition is quite off, our body is quite capable of supplying our non-essential nutrients from the essential nutrients we receive. Correct?
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 29, 2003, at 19:32:19
In reply to Thanks, Larry Hoover and one last question » Larry Hoover, posted by IsoM on January 29, 2003, at 18:59:49
> I've had so many things coming at me from too many directions that I feel my brain is scrambled. My normally astute memory is shot & I'm having trouble knowing whether something is a memory from a vivid dream or a poorly installed memory. So any help right now is much appreciated. When these external factors finally get looked after, I'll find my mind among the left-overs & get back to normal. Surprisingly, I'm not getting depressed over everything but I can feel the physical & mental effects of the prolonged stresses.
I do hope things settle down soon. Prolonged stress is something I try to minimize by any means possible.
> I'm looking for a reliable source of grass fed meat, chicken, pork, & beef. I think there's a source of emu meat near me but I'll have to hunt for it. Now that we're really (for a certainty!!) going to have our own place, I'm going to get a couple of chickens. I love the silly critters & two chickens become best friends - no pecking order - & they'll lay all the eggs I need. I'm sure CLAs are found in the milk (& therefore butter), but maybe it'll be in the eggs from my chickens too.
If you can at all manage to do so, allow your chickens to forage. They'll give you eggs of superb quality, flavour and nutrition. Since we're a little squeemish (sp?) about eating insects, but the birds aren't, you can utilize the most nutritious food on the planet (yes, insects) by secondary means.
> Now a question about EPA conversion to DHA, if you don't mind. Humans are supposed to be able to make all the DHA needed from available EPA. Do you agree, or are there disruptions to the pathway because of diff reasons?Dogma dies hard, and that bit of dogma needs to die. Humans most assuredly *do not* convert omega-3 fatty acids efficiently. I've posted some abstracts below. Males may not convert *any*, whereas females are about 9% efficient, probably to ensure a supply of DHA for the developing fetus and supplies for lactation.
>Personally, I've thought that unless one's nutrition is quite off, our body is quite capable of supplying our non-essential nutrients from the essential nutrients we receive. Correct?
The key concept being essential/non-essential. DHA should certainly be shifted over to the essential category. The concluding sentence from the first abstract reads (for emphasis): "These findings indicate that future attention will have to focus on the adequate provision of DHA which can reliably be achieved only with the supply of the preformed long-chain metabolite."
Int J Vitam Nutr Res 1998;68(3):159-73
Can adults adequately convert alpha-linolenic acid (18:3n-3) to eicosapentaenoic acid (20:5n-3) and docosahexaenoic acid (22:6n-3)?
Gerster H.
Vitamin Research Department, F. Hoffman-Roche Ltd, Basel, Switzerland.
A diet including 2-3 portions of fatty fish per week, which corresponds to the intake of 1.25 g EPA (20:5n-3) + DHA (22:6n-3) per day, has been officially recommended on the basis of epidemiological findings showing a beneficial role of these n-3 long-chain PUFA in the prevention of cardiovascular and inflammatory diseases. The parent fatty acid ALA (18:3n-3), found in vegetable oils such as flaxseed or rapeseed oil, is used by the human organism partly as a source of energy, partly as a precursor of the metabolites, but the degree of conversion appears to be unreliable and restricted. More specifically, most studies in humans have shown that whereas a certain, though restricted, conversion of high doses of ALA to EPA occurs, conversion to DHA is severely restricted. The use of ALA labelled with radioisotopes suggested that with a background diet high in saturated fat conversion to long-chain metabolites is approximately 6% for EPA and 3.8% for DHA. With a diet rich in n-6 PUFA, conversion is reduced by 40 to 50%. It is thus reasonable to observe an n-6/n-3 PUFA ratio not exceeding 4-6. Restricted conversion to DHA may be critical since evidence has been increasing that this long-chain metabolite has an autonomous function, e.g. in the brain, retina and spermatozoa where it is the most prominent fatty acid. In neonates deficiency is associated with visual impairment, abnormalities in the electroretinogram and delayed cognitive development. In adults the potential role of DHA in neurological function still needs to be investigated in depth. Regarding cardiovascular risk factors DHA has been shown to reduce triglyceride concentrations. These findings indicate that future attention will have to focus on the adequate provision of DHA which can reliably be achieved only with the supply of the preformed long-chain metabolite.
Br J Nutr 2002 Oct;88(4):355-63
Eicosapentaenoic and docosapentaenoic acids are the principal products of alpha-linolenic acid metabolism in young men*.
Burdge GC, Jones AE, Wootton SA.
Institute of Human Nutrition, Level C, West Wing, Southampton General Hospital, Tremona Road, Southampton, SO16 6YD, UK. gcb@soton.ac.uk
The capacity for conversion of alpha-linolenic acid (ALNA) to n-3 long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids was investigated in young men. Emulsified [U-13C]ALNA was administered orally with a mixed meal to six subjects consuming their habitual diet. Approximately 33 % of administered [13C]ALNA was recovered as 13CO2 on breath over the first 24 h. [13C]ALNA was mobilised from enterocytes primarily as chylomicron triacylglycerol (TAG), while [13C]ALNA incorporation into plasma phosphatidylcholine (PC) occurred later, probably by the liver. The time scale of conversion of [13C]ALNA to eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosapentaenoic acid (DPA) suggested that the liver was the principal site of ALNA desaturation and elongation, although there was some indication of EPA and DPA synthesis by enterocytes. [13C]EPA and [13C]DPA concentrations were greater in plasma PC than TAG, and were present in the circulation for up to 7 and 14 d, respectively. There was no apparent 13C enrichment of docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) in plasma PC, TAG or non-esterified fatty acids at any time point measured up to 21 d. This pattern of 13C n-3 fatty acid labelling suggests inhibition or restriction of DHA synthesis downstream of DPA. [13C]ALNA, [13C]EPA and [13C]DPA were incorporated into erythrocyte PC, but not phosphatidylethanolamine, suggesting uptake of intact plasma PC molecules from lipoproteins into erythrocyte membranes. Since the capacity of adult males to convert ALNA to DHA was either very low or absent, uptake of pre-formed DHA from the diet may be critical for maintaining adequate membrane DHA concentrations in these individuals.
Br J Nutr 2002 Oct;88(4):411-20Conversion of alpha-linolenic acid to eicosapentaenoic, docosapentaenoic and docosahexaenoic acids in young women.
Burdge GC, Wootton SA.
Institute of Human Nutrition, University of Southampton, Southampton, UK. g.c.burdge@soton.ac.uk
The extent to which women of reproductive age are able to convert the n-3 fatty acid alpha-linolenic acid (ALNA) to eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), docosapentaenoic acid (DPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) was investigated in vivo by measuring the concentrations of labelled fatty acids in plasma for 21 d following the ingestion of [U-13C]ALNA (700 mg). [13C]ALNA excursion was greatest in cholesteryl ester (CE) (224 (sem 70) micromol/l over 21 d) compared with triacylglycerol (9-fold), non-esterified fatty acids (37-fold) and phosphatidylcholine (PC, 7-fold). EPA excursion was similar in both PC (42 (sem 8) micromol/l) and CE (42 (sem 9) micromol/l) over 21 d. In contrast both [13C]DPA and [13C]DHA were detected predominately in PC (18 (sem 4) and 27 (sem 7) micromol/l over 21 d, respectively). Estimated net fractional ALNA inter-conversion was EPA 21 %, DPA 6 % and DHA 9 %. Approximately 22 % of administered [13C]ALNA was recovered as 13CO2 on breath over the first 24 h of the study. These results suggest differential partitioning of ALNA, EPA and DHA between plasma lipid classes, which may facilitate targeting of individual n-3 fatty acids to specific tissues. Comparison with previous studies suggests that women may possess a greater capacity for ALNA conversion than men. Such metabolic capacity may be important for meeting the demands of the fetus and neonate for DHA during pregnancy and lactation. Differences in DHA status between women both in the non-pregnant state and in pregnancy may reflect variations in metabolic capacity for DHA synthesis.
Posted by IsoM on January 30, 2003, at 3:24:10
In reply to Re: Thanks, Larry Hoover and one last question, posted by Larry Hoover on January 29, 2003, at 19:32:19
Thanks, Larry, that's interesting. No way one person can keep up with new knowledge that's out there. I have such a broad range of interests that I try to cover all my interests but the bit about DHA is new for me. I wonder if the higher intake of fish liver oil & the other EFA capsules I've been taking has made the stress less damaging to me than normal. Somehow, I'm weathering this a little better than normal.
Lately, when I've been surfing the computer, I've been spending time drooling over exotic plants I'd like to acquire, plus building up a database of plant horticultural requirements for future customers of mine (I hope). Plants are my stress buster. I bought myself a present for the house sale going through - a beautiful Vriesea splendos cultivar & cheap too! So I haven't been keeping up on latest nutritional developments like I often do. The turmeric was new to me too plus the mention viridis made of theanine. Getting lazy in my old age!
I'm doing all I can to minimize the stresses but some things do need looking after. I hate paper work & bureaucracy. I swear phones complicate our lives. I've spend literally hours on the phone getting recorded messages that lead nowhere. Trying to track one governmental agency, I went through 7 phone numbers that were wrong. And these came from other gov listings & the 800 directory assistance. I've been wanting to pull my hair out over the sheer frustration & stupidity of bureaucracy. I never did find the number I was looking for & I'm very good at tracking info down too.
You bet my chickens are going to be free range! I wouldn't do otherwise for them. I only plan on putting them in a coop for the evening as there's coyotes that come about. Two chickens wouldn't need a great deal of room to range. I'm not at all squeamish about bugs (it's one of my passions - there's very little I'm squeamish about) & I'll even hand pick bugs for them from the other parts of my garden.I've had birds many years ago - ducks, geese, chickens, & even pheasants, but chickens are my favourite. Their waddle when they run is quite endearing.
Thanks again for the info & quick reply!
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.