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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Hattree on July 25, 2002, at 9:14:11
Do you drink coffee and also take stimulants? Wondering how people respond.
Posted by Xevious on July 25, 2002, at 12:52:56
In reply to Prescrip Stimulants Caffeine, posted by Hattree on July 25, 2002, at 9:14:11
I take 30mg of Adderall daily, and use caffeine very carefully. I have yet to read anything stating an explicit danger in combining caffeine with pstims, but you have to realize that you will be amplifying the cardiovascular and perepheral nervous system stimulation effects of either drug by adding them together. So go easy.
I drink tea or coffee every now or then to help give me a morning boost on those days that the pstim doesn't seem to be doing much good, and have really abused ided tea in the evenings during finals to keep me functional when working on school papers. I find that in these cases, I tolerate little bit of caffeine much better than a corresponding increase in my dosage of Adderall.
That's my experience, anyway. I'd say go ahead and see how you respond. Some folks have reported that caffeine seems to cancel out some of the effectiveness of their pstim. Others drink caffeine with pstims on a regular basis. Just make sure that you're getting enough sleep (sleep deprivation is *very* dangerous) and monitoring yourself.
Happy jitters!
-Xevious
Posted by DiscoPuppy on July 25, 2002, at 18:11:24
In reply to Prescrip Stimulants Caffeine, posted by Hattree on July 25, 2002, at 9:14:11
I take 40mg Dexedrine a day and I really have no (immediate) problems drinking a cup of coffee in the morning. I do notice that the effects of stimulants on me vary day to day. There has been a time or two that I felt overly jittery and anxious, but for the most part, I seem to be doing okay with my morning coffee.
> Do you drink coffee and also take stimulants? Wondering how people respond.
Posted by velaguff on July 25, 2002, at 19:51:19
In reply to Prescrip Stimulants Caffeine, posted by Hattree on July 25, 2002, at 9:14:11
Simple caffeine is a wonderful antidepressant for many people. Until tolerance kicks in, which is too bad, really. Many people have the same experience as me, that is, if you quit, because your doc tells you to (heart quiver, or something) and then you fall off the wagon a week or so later, you catch a REALLY GOOD BUZZ (or relief from depression; subectively, I would argue, about the same thing). I'm obsessed with Memantine, it may prevent tolerance with caffeine, as supposedly it does with PrescriptoStims . Some who don't respond to caffeine may think I'm exagerrating, but it's true for quite a number of people that caffeine is a powerful antidepressant....until tolerance develops. If that happens, and one must (for whatever reason) go through withdrawal, 1mg of Klonopin (Clonazepam) every 4 hours for 4 days helps immensly with caffeine withdrawal headaches.
Posted by Shawn. T. on July 25, 2002, at 20:22:41
In reply to Prescrip Stimulants Caffeine, posted by Hattree on July 25, 2002, at 9:14:11
Posted by mist on July 26, 2002, at 0:18:26
In reply to Caffeine use can cause depression!, posted by Shawn. T. on July 25, 2002, at 20:22:41
Posted by Hattree on July 26, 2002, at 9:52:00
In reply to Re: Prescrip Stimulants Caffeine, posted by Xevious on July 25, 2002, at 12:52:56
I use stimulants and caffeine daily...I'm nowhere near giving up my morning coffee, but I have also been in the habit of having a late afternoon shot of caffeine instead of another dose of whatever (I have built up kind of an arsenal of stimulants and vary them somewhat, with doc's approval).
I've been toying with the idea of giving up caffeine altogether, as it seems to add jitters and insomnia. Then again, the stimulants can do that all by themselves.
I'm not concerned with safety, really--just wondering how people respond.
Posted by Hattree on July 26, 2002, at 10:00:24
In reply to Re: Prescrip Stimulants Caffeine, posted by velaguff on July 25, 2002, at 19:51:19
What Shawn's site says about caffeine:
<<The long-term (four hours or so) effects of caffeine are depression. Try to limit coffee to no more than one cup in the morning. Coffee can make you more alert for an hour or so, but later you get an opposite reaction. Caffeine tends to increase the release of insulin in the blood, and insulin lowers the blood sugar level. When you have low blood sugar levels, you begin to feel less sure of yourself, and have low energy levels, which can lead to the blues or depression.>>
I think caffeine behaves kind of like Ritalin or other short-acting stimulants...seems like the above might also be said about them. Doesn't contradict what velaguff said about caffeine's anti-depressant effects either.
Sometimes I think that if you need a script for Ritalin, you might need one for espresso or, say, Sudafed.
Posted by velaguff on July 26, 2002, at 13:22:51
In reply to Prescrip Stimulants Caffeine, posted by Hattree on July 25, 2002, at 9:14:11
The research info on caffeine and depression is quite mixed. Just look around, you'll find studies to support either position on this...if you decide to take one, and I don't: I only maintain that for many people who are non-habituated to it, that it works, at least in the SHORT term.
Arguably if you use it as an AD, you should titrate your dose (maybe take caffeine pills instead of coffee to do so more precisely), so that it doesn't wear off till you're ready for bed. Like any other Stim that I've ever heard of, when it wears off, you get a letdown, and may well feel worse than B4 you took it. This may be the kind of depression often referred to RE: caffeine, since many people regard it as a "morning only" thing.
> Do you drink coffee and also take stimulants? Wondering how people respond.
Posted by MomO3 on July 28, 2002, at 23:43:12
In reply to Re: Stimulants-Caffeine, posted by Hattree on July 26, 2002, at 9:52:00
I still have to have my morning java - but after that, I am all caffeine-free diet Dr. Pepper...
Posted by Shawn. T. on July 29, 2002, at 21:06:54
In reply to Prescrip Stimulants Caffeine, posted by Hattree on July 25, 2002, at 9:14:11
Here's some information on caffeine. I quit consuming it after reading this.
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/feb2000/950223638.Cb.r.html
Shawn
Posted by Serio on July 30, 2002, at 0:16:15
In reply to Prescrip Stimulants Caffeine, posted by Hattree on July 25, 2002, at 9:14:11
Apparently Theanine (availible as supplement) is actually an adenosine precusor. Caffine is an adenosine antagonist. In response to heavy caffine consuption the brain may produce extra adenosine causing the well know let down when it wears off. The article implies green tea is more relaxing because of it's theanine content. Unlike kava/valerian it may make you more alert as it relaxes you. Since caffine can induce a panic attack, theanine might predictably have anti-panic properties.
Article:
In 1964, Japan approved theanine’s use in all food, except baby food. In Japan, you can buy over 50 different food items that contain theanine. Japanese soft drinks are spiked with the relaxant, and it has been put into chewing gum.The tranquilizing effects of theanine are not imaginary. Theanine readily crosses the blood-brain barrier of humans and exerts subtle changes in biochemistry. An increase in alpha waves has been documented, and the effect has been compared to getting a massage or taking a hot bath. Theanine is different than kava-kava in that it doesn’t cause drowsiness. And, unlike tranquilizing drugs, it doesn’t interfere with the ability to think. Studies on rodents show just the opposite: theanine enhances the ability to learn and remember. By shutting down the “worry” mode, theanine increases concentration and focuses thought. This is the concept behind the Japanese tea ceremony which causes a person to focus on the moment. Consider this: the risk of mortality for Japanese women who practice tea ceremony is half of other Japanese women. The Japanese are already the longest-lived people on earth.
Theanine is a caffeine antagonist -- it does the opposite. The effects can readily be seen in EEGs of rodents given caffeine, then theanine. One of the things that theanine changes is GABA -- a brain chemical known for its calming effect. Theanine increases GABA, while caffeine decreases it. GABA doesn’t just relax, it also creates a sense of well-being. Theanine’s ability to increase this brain chemical can put you in a better mood by changing biochemistry. Theanine also increases levels of dopamine -- another brain chemical associated with mood-enhancing effects and increased feelings associated with sex drive.
Other benefits are claimed,.. Step right up!
Posted by mist on July 30, 2002, at 3:00:00
In reply to Caffine Antagonist; L-Theanine,..big in Japan, posted by Serio on July 30, 2002, at 0:16:15
Yerba Mate tea is billed as an "energizing" drink but as far as I know the only energizing ingredient in it is caffeine. Does anyone know how it differs from other kinds of tea? I had some and felt better mood-wise than I usually do with coffee or other teas, but that could have just been a coincidence.
Posted by mist on July 30, 2002, at 3:01:04
In reply to Caffine Antagonist; L-Theanine,..big in Japan, posted by Serio on July 30, 2002, at 0:16:15
Posted by graybeard on August 25, 2002, at 10:26:26
In reply to Caffeine use can cause depression!, posted by Shawn. T. on July 25, 2002, at 20:22:41
In a 10-year study of 86,000 nurses, Harvard docs found that those who drank 2-3 cups of coffee a day were much LESS likely to commit suicide than those who had no caffeine.
URL (abstract): http://biopsychiatry.com/caffsui.htm
I found that caffeine's AD properties were greater when I was already on Prozac & Remeron.
Posted by Cindylou on August 27, 2002, at 6:36:26
In reply to Yerba Mate tea, posted by mist on July 30, 2002, at 3:00:00
Hi,
My husband was a Yerba Mate enthusiast for a long time. He told me to tell you the energizing properties are not caffeine, but something called "Mateine." In their website they say that mateine "has a unique pharmacology and is unfair to compare it to caffeine." Their website is www.yerba-mate.com, if you want more info.I found it to taste awful, and didn't get any help from it, but my husband drank pots of it a day. I'm skeptical. Does it help you?
Hope this helps!
cindy> Yerba Mate tea is billed as an "energizing" drink but as far as I know the only energizing ingredient in it is caffeine. Does anyone know how it differs from other kinds of tea? I had some and felt better mood-wise than I usually do with coffee or other teas, but that could have just been a coincidence.
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Posted by Randal on August 28, 2002, at 13:08:53
In reply to Caffeine as anti-depressant, posted by graybeard on August 25, 2002, at 10:26:26
I'm wondering whether anyone out there sweats--sometimes a lot!-- when they drink tea (and to a lesser extent when they drink coffee).
I've talked with a number of friends about this and it seems like a small percentage of people experience this effect. Does anyone know what causes it? Is it a serotonin thing? I've never looked into it. I've experienced it when I'm not on SSRIs, and I'm not sure whether or not it's greater when I'm on them.
This is not a subtle effect due to temperature--I can be dripping with sweat! It doesn't always happen, but it seems to correlate with a temporary improvement in mood.
Just curious,
Randal
> In a 10-year study of 86,000 nurses, Harvard docs found that those who drank 2-3 cups of coffee a day were much LESS likely to commit suicide than those who had no caffeine.
>
> URL (abstract): http://biopsychiatry.com/caffsui.htm
>
> I found that caffeine's AD properties were greater when I was already on Prozac & Remeron.
Posted by graybeard on August 29, 2002, at 5:39:58
In reply to Tea vs. Coffee and Sweat? » graybeard, posted by Randal on August 28, 2002, at 13:08:53
Caffeine (in coffee or Coke) doesn't make me sweat. I just feel warm & fuzzy inside. About the only time I drink tea is at Chinese restaurants, and I sweat then -- but I think that's from the spicy sauces I put on my egg rolls.
Posted by IsoM on August 29, 2002, at 13:59:38
In reply to Tea vs. Coffee and Sweat? » graybeard, posted by Randal on August 28, 2002, at 13:08:53
Randal:
I'm wondering whether anyone out there sweats--sometimes a lot!-- when they drink tea (and to a lesser extent when they drink coffee).IsoM:
I loathe coffee & only drink tea. Tea is the only hot beverage I drink. Since I started ADs (not just the SSRIs), I started sweating too. TCAs made me sweat but when I switched to SSRIs, it became much worse. I found it strange that I rarely sweated before, even if I was hot. Mind you, I know I did perspire but not noticably, & I was comfortable. But since SSRIs, I'm generally too warm & was so, even when my TSH was high. It was one reason that it never occurred to me that I had hypothyroidism.Drinking tea always made me nice & warm. Now it makes me sweat. Only if I'm very cold being outside in winter with very light clothing would I not sweat.
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Randal:
Does anyone know what causes it? Is it a serotonin thing? I've never looked into it. I've experienced it when I'm not on SSRIs, and I'm not sure whether or not it's greater when I'm on them.
It doesn't always happen, but it seems to correlate with a temporary improvement in mood.IsoM:
I know it's not the caffeine in tea (I don't steep it long enough or drink it strong enough) as I take caffeine pills & don't experience it. I also don't notice any elevation in mood, no matter how slight. I've attributed my sweating to the fact that since being on SSRIs, it takes very little to make me uncomfortably hot & to the fact that ingesting any hot liquid warms me up rapidly. Have you experimented with eating/drinking steaming hot soup? It has the same effect on me as tea.
This is the end of the thread.
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