![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by EmilyAnn on July 25, 2002, at 21:24:35
hi all.
I recently was discharged from a mental hospital. I was there for about a week. I was having a really hard time w/ my depression. I cut again too...my arms and legs. I was having obsessive thoughts and plans about suicide. My friend called the ambulance and then I went into the hospital.
I am in a partial hospitalization program now (outpatient), on different meds, and going to my old counselor again.
The meds I'm on now are Depakote (again, but it wasn't monitored before) 1000/mg/day...Celexa 20mg/day and Naltrexone...the Naltrexone is for cutting..>I think it's crap, I don't need it, but I'll listen to the doc for now. Naltrexone is primarily used as an opiate blocker for those addicted to herione (one of the few drugs I have never done) and to treat alcoholism. But my doc said it helps w/ cutting, so she wants me on it.
She thinks I have ADHD, I think that's hillarious. I also think she must be on crack to think that. I am so obviously BP II that it's not even funny. On my discharge sheet she wrote major depression, ADHD and R/O Bipolar...does that mean rule out bipolar?
She had me taking Adderal...funny, an alcoholic/addict taking adderal! I don't need a damn stimulant anyway...sure it may be nice to not be so damn tired, but I know myself, I'll abuse it...and I don't need it. I can't concentrate sometimes due to the depression, I do not have ADHD. She's nutty. But she said I didn't have to take the adderal anymore, so I flushed them.
It's difficult, b/c I have to listen to her, or I'll be considered non-compliant, but some times I think they don't listen to us, ya know? But other than that she's pretty good so far.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. I'm still having trouble with my depression...I feel that I have no control over it...that it's still managing me, not the other way around. I need to get a handle on it in order to manage it.
Help, if you can.
-B
Posted by Shawn. T. on July 25, 2002, at 21:34:05
In reply to hospital, posted by EmilyAnn on July 25, 2002, at 21:24:35
Remeron and fish oils would do wonders for you. It's not your fault that you are having such a difficult time. Drugs like Celexa can cause suicidal thoughts, and you really do not need Naltrexone. Remeron plus fish oils will undoubtedly treat bipolar II disorder effectively. I feel bad for all of the people being lied to by certain pharmaceutical companies. They know that their products are dangerous, and I have even heard that they actually kept better products than SSRI's from reaching the market because they were making so much money. I hope you feel better; you're not crazy, a portion of our medical establishment is.
Here's a story that seems to point to unacceptable corruption. You may have to sign up for an account, but it's worth it.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/433017Shawn
Posted by EmilyAnn on July 25, 2002, at 21:42:34
In reply to Re: hospital, posted by Shawn. T. on July 25, 2002, at 21:34:05
Shawn...thanks for the validation and reassurance, it truly means alot to me right now. I'll look into what you suggested. I hope the doc listens to me. How do you get a pscy to listen to you? They all seem to hate when their patients give them feed back.
thanks again.
-B
Posted by Shawn. T. on July 25, 2002, at 23:47:44
In reply to Re: hospital, posted by EmilyAnn on July 25, 2002, at 21:42:34
That's a tough question; I'll give it a shot, but someone else may have better advice. One way that you could go about it is to sort of assist him or her in coming to your conclusions. Definitely do not engage yourself in a heated argument; try not to insult your doctor's intelligence. Try to establish a rapport so you can work together more easily. If you don't want to be put on a certain medication, explain that either it didn't work for you in the past or that you are related to someone with a condition similar to your own that did not respond to it (or responded negatively). Don't let anyone bully you around, especially when it comes to drugs (you can just say no). Also remember that not all doctors are the same; yours may actually appreciate some feedback. You're welcome.
Shawn
Posted by colin wallace on July 26, 2002, at 5:13:49
In reply to Re: hospital, posted by Shawn. T. on July 25, 2002, at 21:34:05
Shawn,
You've obviously had some success with fish oils, and/or researched them quite thoroughly.
I spent some (considerable) time poring over all the findings in relation to fish-oils too, and was very optimistic, particularly as regards their purported mood stabilizing properties/proven efficacy in treating depression, schizophrenia and a host of other ailments.
Sadly though, you should be aware that they are not a panacea for mental illness.
I have given fish oils, in varying doses, plenty of opportunity to work their wonders, and experienced absolutely no mood uplift/stabilization, or other noticable benefits.I did however experience plenty of interrupted sleep and increased(often unpleasant) dreaming.Others here have also had similar experiences.
Also, whilst Remeron is undoubtedly a great med.(I took it for 9 months or so in high end doses)
and much less likely (IMHO and experience) to trigger mania/dysphoria than say, SSRI's, I have to say that my mood grew utterly and hopelessly unstable and erratic whilst taking it.
Why? Because my bipolar symptoms wre being exacerbated by the absence of an effective mood stabilizing medication.And fish oils, I'm afraid, for many bipolars (maybe even the majority of bipolars)just won't cut the mustard, especially when a prescription antidepressant is also being taken.
I'm not being argumentative here, just passing on my own observations, with the same good intentions as yourself.All the best,
Col.
Posted by Shawn. T. on July 28, 2002, at 6:02:51
In reply to Re: Bipolar/Fish OilsShawn T., posted by colin wallace on July 26, 2002, at 5:13:49
My position is that a person should try the solution with the least number of side effects first and only resort to other options if that solution is not working. My real concern is that everyone understands that such options exist. I am painfully aware of the side effects that certain antidepressants can have on a person, and I do not believe that someone should be forced to stack on medications to treat side effects. The real goal of medicine should be to reduce the number of medications consumed by patients, excluding vitamins, minerals, and other natural substances that the body has evolved a need for.
Side effects are a roadblock in the path to complete recovery; when possible, one should attempt to avoid them when an equally efficacious alternative is available. I believe that someone taking medications that affect emotions should be aware and educated of the options available to them. To simply accept the "default" option on blind faith should not be a viable choice for someone taking a strong active interest in their mental health. I do not believe that the most popular solution to a problem is always the best. Every option deserves consideration when a sea of choices exists. If I were to simply not say anything, I would be bowing to the authority of the majority; I believe in the ultimate authority of the individual in matters as personal as mental health.
I am convinced that most people likely to read posts on this message board are not satisfied with the default choice available to them. I am not afraid to attempt to explain to them in an intelligent manner what the pro's and con's of their options are. In a world where antidepressants are said to work via "unknown mechanisms," one cannot help but feel a certain degree of discomfort in that notion. I am not comfortable with taking medicines that drug companies guess might work for me. I want to perceive that they are using their vast resources of scientific intelligence to understand why their products work and to improve upon them. I'd like to have a notion that they chose a specific solution not because it was the popular or economical way to go, but because they applied rational scientific methods to creating a better product.
We live in a world where a vast selection of potently selective drugs is available for the treatment of mental health disorders. To accept what has worked in the past when the future is the present would be a terrible mistake. Change happens, and those who are best able to understand the nature of that change are those who will be best able to make an informed decision on how that change will affect them. To allow the marketing machines of corporate monoliths to dictate change in the intensely personal world of mental health is a terrible mistake in my opinion.
Perhaps it appears that I advocate certain options because they work for me. I do not consider my subjective experience to constitute an acceptable argument in favor of one option over another. With one exception, I have made every effort to gain a personally acceptable (i.e. extensive) degree of knowledge about the medications that I use to treat my mental health problems. I have thrown away scripts for drugs that I did not consider to be both effective and relatively side effect free for me to take on a long term basis. I will not hesitate to mention that I have experience with certain drugs when mentioning them; a combination of subjective and objective reasoning is often more powerful than either type employed alone. I am interested in getting people involved in the process of understanding their mental processes. I am not inclined to dumb any material down; I feel that such tactics are somewhat simplistic. Although I base my assumptions on vast numbers of scientifically and clinically performed experiments and trials, it is not always possible for me to reference every single one. I attempt to provide references when discussing new material that best display the reasoning behind my assumptions. When I say something that does not appear to be based on any sort of evidence, I will always be glad to provide that evidence. I value the courage of people who take the responsability for helping themselves into their own hands. When they ask for information or validation, I feel the need to give it to them if my knowledge of the subject is personally acceptable. If I were to take individual accounts of inefficacy into account when suggesting valid alternatives, silence would be my only choice. I attempt to use my critical intellect in aiding those who wish to have access to materials that they would likely not be able to as easily acquire on their own. If the reasoning behind any of my advice is ever unclear, I am always happy to provide additional resources which might aid in clarification.
I am not a doctor, but I have an ever increasing understanding of the mechanisms through which antidepressants work. I have seen several web sites, books, magazine articles, and the like which have disseminated information much less accurate than the information that I pass on here. Neither I nor any other person on this earth could give an exacting explanation of mental health and the medications used to treat it. However, I am ever pressed to further my knowledge of neuroscience, biochemistry, and empathetic concerns to provide what I hope will not be seen as personally gratifying suggestions concerning psychoactive drugs. I rarely feel a sense of enjoyment when answering questions; I only do it because I often feel that I have a unique perspective to throw at the problem. All that I ask is that anyone who wishes to tell me that my arguments are unsubstantiated provide something more evidence against them than a subjective argument. I apologize if I might seem defensive; I simply wish to make me intentions clear. If the results of my intentions are doing more harm than good here, I will persue them elsewhere.
http://www4.infotrieve.com/search/databases/detailsNew.asp?artID=15575193what I have been recently statinghttp://www.biopsychiatry.com/omega3.htm
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/protein-kinase-c.htm
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/bipolmech.htm
http://www4.infotrieve.com/search/databases/detailsNew.asp?artID=27129572
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/fattyacids.html
http://www4.infotrieve.com/search/databases/detailsNew.asp?artID=26728802
Shawn
Posted by colin wallace on July 29, 2002, at 12:49:48
In reply to Re: Bipolar/Fish OilsShawn T., posted by Shawn. T. on July 28, 2002, at 6:02:51
Shawn !
Don't even think of going elsewhere to pass on your most valuable insights- they are, as you rightly mention, intelligent and well-informed stances on the most infinitely complex subject-matter- us.
All our perspectives of course stem from a unique blend of the subjective/objective;if you delve into some of my earlier posts, you'll see that I actually agree wholeheartedly with the thrust of your approach,in that we should take nothing for granted and inform ourselves of the manifold treatment options available (in particular,those gifted to us by nature.)
I too balk at the idea of introducing drugs to my system which exert their benifits via 'unknown' mechanisms, and leave more questions unanswered than those they solve.
I don't mean to deviate from the line of reasoning taken in my earlier post- especially as I'm one of those hapless people for whom all natural alternatives to psych. meds have failed.But the fact that I first explored and sought those alternatives shows that we are in fact, coming from the same corner.
I apologize if the (unintended) tone of my post seemed chagrined- this perhaps even reflected some frustration or bitterness on my part, with the treatment failures I have experienced).
I do not for an instant believe that your views are unsubstantiated, because they are (on the 'fishy' subject in question),well reasoned and objectively held.
This, however does not invalidate my own standpoint, which on this issue leaned toward the subjective.
If, as you say, you rarely feel any enjoyment in answering questions, you can at least allow yourself the satisfaction of knowing they are always well-received.Col.*_-
(blissfully calm on depakote...and 3gms omega3!!)
Posted by Ron Hill on July 29, 2002, at 16:26:00
In reply to Re: Bipolar/Fish OilsShawn T., posted by colin wallace on July 29, 2002, at 12:49:48
Colin,
Your writing style in this post is vastly improved over all of your previous posts that I've read during the past six months or so. Is the improvement a byproduct of the Depakote or did you just take more care in drafting this one?
-- Ron
P.S. If you check the box located just below the subject line entitled "add name of previous poster" when you are writing your post it will automatically include the name of the person to whom you are responding.
------------------------
> Shawn !
>
> Don't even think of going elsewhere to pass on your most valuable insights- they are, as you rightly mention, intelligent and well-informed stances on the most infinitely complex subject-matter- us.
> All our perspectives of course stem from a unique blend of the subjective/objective;if you delve into some of my earlier posts, you'll see that I actually agree wholeheartedly with the thrust of your approach,in that we should take nothing for granted and inform ourselves of the manifold treatment options available (in particular,those gifted to us by nature.)
> I too balk at the idea of introducing drugs to my system which exert their benifits via 'unknown' mechanisms, and leave more questions unanswered than those they solve.
> I don't mean to deviate from the line of reasoning taken in my earlier post- especially as I'm one of those hapless people for whom all natural alternatives to psych. meds have failed.But the fact that I first explored and sought those alternatives shows that we are in fact, coming from the same corner.
> I apologize if the (unintended) tone of my post seemed chagrined- this perhaps even reflected some frustration or bitterness on my part, with the treatment failures I have experienced).
> I do not for an instant believe that your views are unsubstantiated, because they are (on the 'fishy' subject in question),well reasoned and objectively held.
> This, however does not invalidate my own standpoint, which on this issue leaned toward the subjective.
> If, as you say, you rarely feel any enjoyment in answering questions, you can at least allow yourself the satisfaction of knowing they are always well-received.
>
>
>
> Col.*_-
>
> (blissfully calm on depakote...and 3gms omega3!!)
>
>
>
Posted by colin wallace on July 30, 2002, at 5:49:44
In reply to Re: Bipolar/Fish Oils » colin wallace , posted by Ron Hill on July 29, 2002, at 16:26:00
Hi Ron,
Writing style is something I've forlornly sacrificed this past few years;it has deteriorated to such an extent, that I never bother examining my semi-intelligble slapdash before hitting the post button.
That would take a coherance of thought that I just don't seem to have any longer, so there would be little point.
Believe it or not, I was once able to write at least reasonably well - short stories and the like.
Although I have taught for a living and last year managed to pass some ludicrously technical IT exams (greatly worsening my illness in the process), I doubt whether my faculties will ever return to normal.
I think I may just amble on through life and join JohnJ in his lawn-mowing enterprise.Seems quite appealing from where I'm sitting!Col.
Posted by Shawn. T. on July 30, 2002, at 17:59:30
In reply to Re: Bipolar/Fish OilsShawn T., posted by colin wallace on July 29, 2002, at 12:49:48
Thanks... I believe that I was moreso feeling exhausted than responding to any sort of tone that you may have implied. I am very often afraid that I may make a mistake and result in someone being negatively affected by my advice. I really don't take much of an offense to what anyone says to me; it's hard to live your life while constantly considering what others think of you. I appreciate your encouragement.
Shawn
Posted by johnj on July 30, 2002, at 22:26:49
In reply to Re: Bipolar/Fish Oils » Ron Hill, posted by colin wallace on July 30, 2002, at 5:49:44
Hey Colin:
Maybe we could start an international lawn service or maybe we could cut the lawn for meds!!
How is the Depkote trial going? Lamactil is something I will look into. Hope the stabilizer is working some magic for you.
I don't know if you saw the post, but I find it somewhat interesting that fish oil did the same thing to you as it did me. Broken sleep and dreams. I lasted about 10 days or so on it. At frist I felt great and sleep was good, but it didn't last as usual. How long did you take it?
Keep us posted on how it goes. I think lithium would be a good try for you, but that is just from personal experience and from our similiarity in certain ways. BTW your writing is quite impressive.
How's the nugget?
take care
johnj
Posted by colin wallace on July 31, 2002, at 7:27:02
In reply to Re: Bipolar/Fish Oils » colin wallace, posted by johnj on July 30, 2002, at 22:26:49
> Cheers John,
>
> How is the Depkote trial going? Lamactil is something I will look into. Hope the stabilizer is working some magic for you.I wouldn't call it magic exactly John, but it has definitely helped to cap the anger etc.
I actually feel like hell today though-woke up feeling super depressed.Could be a touch of zoloft withdrawal, foul weather (shuts down my brain within days and really sets off the depression)or a bit of both.Can't rule out the dep. either. Sleep pattern is totally shagged right now, but its very early days.>
> I don't know if you saw the post, but I find it somewhat interesting that fish oil did the same thing to you as it did me. Broken sleep and dreams. I lasted about 10 days or so on it. At frist I felt great and sleep was good, but it didn't last as usual. How long did you take it?Tried the codpiece for around two months-up to 4 or 5 gms.Really didn't help at all I'm sorry to say. However, I do find evening primrose oil to have a (slight) calming effect. I take 1g fish oil (just to finish off the huge bottle I bought) and 1g EPO.
>
> Keep us posted on how it goes. I think lithium would be a good try for you, but that is just from personal experienceI do intend to switch to lithobid once things settle a bit.Can't take a chance on the depression slamming in again.I'm going to aim eventually for a low-dose lithobid and lamotragine combo.
> How's the nugget?
Well, I wish they were always that big.Am forcing myself to cycle quite often too, as I always feel great afterwards.Seems to compliment the Depakote actually- no grogginess afterward at all.Are you managing to grab any exercise at all, or is the tyrannical boss sapping all your energy?
Stay well,
Col.
Posted by Ron Hill on July 31, 2002, at 12:48:08
In reply to Re: Bipolar/Fish Oils » » johnj, posted by colin wallace on July 31, 2002, at 7:27:02
Colin,
>I'm going to aim eventually for a low-dose lithobid and lamotragine combo.
Have you ever given any consideration to a low dose of Neurontin (gabapentin) as a candidate for a place on your med combo roster? As I was telling Mitch above, for a couple of years I've been trying to decide whether or not to give gabapentin a trial as an add-on to my 600 mg/day Lithobid.
The supposed benign side effects profile of gabapentin is attractive to me because, as you know, I am hypersensitive to medication side effects. Also it is purported to reduce irritability and, although the SAM-e rage thing disappeared shortly after discontinuation of the substance, I have always had some irritable mood problems associated with my BP II disorder.
Just a thought.
-- Ron
Posted by colin wallace on July 31, 2002, at 13:00:15
In reply to Re: Gabapentin » colin wallace, posted by Ron Hill on July 31, 2002, at 12:48:08
I'll look into this one Ron- I know next to nothing about this med at present.If it shows promise- it'll be considered.
I think that lithobid is looking the likliest candidate for a low-dose trial very soon.
If it helps at all with depression, does it take long to exert this AD effect (generally)?
Also, I wondered how much I should be paying roughly, for lithobid 300mg? - if I decide to trial it.Cheers,
Col.
ps. You sound as though you're faring quite well right now- hope this is so ?
Posted by Ron Hill on July 31, 2002, at 13:52:13
In reply to Re: Gabapentin » Ron Hill, posted by colin wallace on July 31, 2002, at 13:00:15
Colin,
> I think that lithobid is looking the likliest candidate for a low-dose trial very soon. If it helps at all with depression, does it take long to exert this AD effect (generally)?
I don't feel as though I get any AD effect from Lithobid, but YMMV. On the other hand, Lamictal is supposed to provide a fairly good AD benefit.
> Also, I wondered how much I should be paying roughly, for lithobid 300mg? - if I decide to trial it.
That's the good news about Lithobid (and other lithium based products); it's dirt cheap compared with most other psychotropic medications. I use name brand Lithobid and it costs me about $25 per month for my 600 mg/day habit. Of course, that's without health insurance (i.e. I pay the entire cost of medication). Generic is substantially less (I think about half the cost(?)).
> ps. You sound as though you're faring quite well right now- hope this is so?
I'm doing well, thanks. My wife and I bought a new house, so we are busy getting settled (unpacking, buying furniture, hiring a landscape architect, etc). The house has an open floor plan with lots of windows. The roominess and extra interior daylight seem to help my mood and depression.
Check out this recent post regarding AED's (or maybe you’ve already seen it). I found it informative:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020725/msgs/113879.html
I consider you a good e-friend, Colin. If you ever visit this side of the pond, bring your road bike and mountain bike. We’ll do a ride.-- Ron
Posted by Ron Hill on July 31, 2002, at 14:01:42
In reply to Re: Gabapentin » Ron Hill, posted by colin wallace on July 31, 2002, at 13:00:15
Colin,
FYI, the main reason I have not tried gabapentin is that, although the drug manufacturer and many studies have shown that it has a very benign side effect profile, several posters here report a cognitive stupor associated with the med.
-- Ron
Posted by cybercafe on July 31, 2002, at 16:46:53
In reply to Re: Gabapentin » Ron Hill, posted by colin wallace on July 31, 2002, at 13:00:15
> I think that lithobid is looking the likliest candidate for a low-dose trial very soon.
... i hear lithane has a more benign side effect profile, can anyone confirm this?
Posted by cybercafe on July 31, 2002, at 16:48:58
In reply to Re: FYI - Gabapentin » colin wallace, posted by Ron Hill on July 31, 2002, at 14:01:42
> FYI, the main reason I have not tried gabapentin is that, although the drug manufacturer and many studies have shown that it has a very benign side effect profile, several posters here report a cognitive stupor associated with the med.wow, i have always heard that it improves cognitive function (not just related to remission of illness) ....
... though i know that if i take too much it does certainly cause sedation -- not necessarily anymore than other drugs though
Posted by johnj on July 31, 2002, at 17:13:26
In reply to Re: Bipolar/Fish Oils » » johnj, posted by colin wallace on July 31, 2002, at 7:27:02
Colin,
I haven't been getting much exercise since sweating really fouls up my mood. I am pretty sure it is the nortryptline and not the lithium. Although, I have increased my salt intake and it helps me if I do some garden work outside. We have about 7 acres of land in the country and I planted about 75 trees so I have been trying to keep them alive in this horrible heat. If I overdo it, which I tend to do, I feel like crap. So, I make sure I take good water breaks and bring something salty.
Doc is most likely to push a low dose lexapro when it comes out. I have reservations, but I need to get off the TCA. If I can work out I can make things shape up. Today I feel ok, yesterday and Monday were not good. Decided I am going to have to give up my Guinness since alcohol, even in small amounts, messes me up now. I guess I will have to settle for slobbering like an idiot when the Guinness truck goes by, what a pity.
Sorry to hear about your father. I lost mine 13 years ago this October from lung cancer. This was about 4 years before my depression. the range of emotions may be related to depression, but most of them are natural responses, and healthy. I could expound on this, but I don't want to approach the subject unless you are comfortable. I cursed god, and even my father for smoking at the time, but a good friend set me straight and helped me deal with it. You will find support from people you didn't expect. My prayers are with you and your father.
take care and keep fighting!
Johnj
Posted by Ron Hill on July 31, 2002, at 23:45:43
In reply to Re: FYI - Gabapentin, posted by cybercafe on July 31, 2002, at 16:48:58
Cybercafe,
How long have you been taking gabapentin and at what dosage? What other meds do you take with it? Do you like it? What are its benefits and what don't you like about it? Are you taking it for bipolar disorder?
-- Ron
Posted by cybercafe on August 1, 2002, at 2:32:13
In reply to Re: FYI - Gabapentin » cybercafe, posted by Ron Hill on July 31, 2002, at 23:45:43
> How long have you been taking gabapentin and at what dosage? What other meds do you take with
i have been taking gabapentin for about a year
>it? Do you like it? What are its benefits and
yes i like it :)
>what don't you like about it? Are you taking it for bipolar disorder?
i like it because it keeps me from getting h-manic and much more so because it gets rid of my social anxiety....
... in the past it was the best thing i had tried -- it got rid of anxiety with none of the sedation i was used to from benzos or valproate...
however now that i'm taking parnate -- a stimulating AD with anxiolytic effects -- gabapentin seems to be a little sedating to me -- though perhaps it's just getting rid of parnate's highs .... (parnate took me from sleeping 10 hours to sleeping 3 or 4, with a little gabapentin i can go back to a good 7 or 8 hours of sleep)originally i took 2700 mg / day of gabapentin for anxiety, now i'm taking about 400 mg / day for sleep, mood stability, anxiety, etc
actually i'm taking less now but i probably feel more sedated because i take it so irregularly that my body has little chance to get used to it
Posted by Ron Hill on August 1, 2002, at 11:38:07
In reply to Re: FYI - Gabapentin, posted by cybercafe on August 1, 2002, at 2:32:13
Posted by johnj on August 1, 2002, at 13:26:23
In reply to Re: Thank you for the good information (nm) » cybercafe, posted by Ron Hill on August 1, 2002, at 11:38:07
Ron: Thought you migh have missed this so I reposted.
HI Ron:
On the FE front. I have gone through the subjects that I have taken and since I haven't taken any electrical so I don't think I will even review that section. I hated dynamics too, but I will give it my all. I am an environmental engineer and I have started the afternoon environmental section study as of yesterday. (you are an env too right?) Did you take your PE? My moods really regulate my motivation and retention. I did the thermo review while I remeron so I don't know if I retained anything at all or not!!
My boss has one huge flaw: He is never wrong and has never apologized in his 25 years at work. We are government employees...quite different from my past jobs, and the pay is not so good, but I was thankful to find a job while my wife was finishing up school and I could actually bike to work! The main thing at work is that another young engineer's personality clashes with our boss and I have been dragged into the middle since I am new too. He did it to prove the other guy didn't hear him correctly. Acutally, our boss just makes things difficult and you are right he needs some meds bad!!! At least a benzo!! It is a difficult situation and to make a long story short 3 of us went to his boss and had a talk. But, as you know if it is bad down the ranks it is because somebody up above is too lax. It has gone one step further and on Thursday one more higher up is meeting. I am out of it right now and am able to keep my distance, but, I am not a guy to stand and watch someone get raked over for no real reason that someone wanting to flex their muscle.
You hit the nail on the head about my AD's. They do make me feel rotten if I sweat or work out. I don't think it is the lithium or benzo. My pdoc said that lexapro is more effective at lower doses. like 10 mg lexapro is equal to 40 mg of celexa, that is why the lower side effect. He said we need to find something I can tolerate that doesn't give me such nasty side effects. I agree and if I can at least replace the nortryptline I can excercise and blow off some stress. Also, my benzo is making my mornings really crappy. My sleep is not so good and I start to perk up around late afternoon. The benzo drag is just that, a drag. Wish there was a benzo that didn't make me so tired.
I am really going to push my pdoc about a possible bipolar II. I sometimes wonder if I need another mood stabilizer and just a tad bit of AD. With excercise I can at least help myself.
The tracking is a good idea. I am reading that book by David Burns and I haven't been a very good proponent of therapy, but wonder if I might benefit. Have you tried any Cog Behavior therapy? I think I am going to hit the hay earlier tonight feeling kind of tired.
Thanks for the support I will keep posting on what has worked and what hasn't. I know you take the same amount of lithium as I do (600mg?), but do you ever take any AD's?
Take care my friend
Johnj
Posted by colin wallace on August 2, 2002, at 9:13:50
In reply to Re: Bipolar/Fish Oils » colin wallace, posted by johnj on July 31, 2002, at 17:13:26
John,
>>I haven't been getting much exercise since sweating really fouls up my mood. I am pretty sure it is the nortryptline and not the lithium..
My money's on the nortriptyline. I found tricyclics and remeron to be very detrimental to exercise.SSRI's (whetever else I may hold against them), didn't adversely affect my exercise (cycling) program.
>>Doc is most likely to push a low dose lexapro when it comes out. I have reservations...
Why wait for lexapro in particular?A LOW dose trial of celexa, prozac,or zoloft wouldn't harm.And if you happen to be bipolar11, at least you're alert as to what to look out for!Unfortunately, these things have to be tried out to know for certain.
>> Decided I am going to have to give up my Guinness since alcohol, even in small amounts, messes me up now.
Alcohol did that to me on amitriptyline too.As for giving up guinness....my God, that's drastic...rather amputate a limb with a swiss army knife.
>>Sorry to hear about your father. I lost mine 13 years ago this October from lung cancer..
My prayers are with you and your father.Thanks for that John...I think that once I fully get these awful, angry mood disruptions under wraps, I'll be much better equipped to deal with it.That's been the worse aspect- being needed, but not being in the driving seat with my moods has meant I haven't been responding anywhere near as well as I should be.
But I'm definitely retaking the 'reins'- I can feel an almost forgotten friend making his way to the surface- me.Col.
Posted by johnj on August 2, 2002, at 16:31:18
In reply to Re: Bipolar/Fish Oils » johnj, posted by colin wallace on August 2, 2002, at 9:13:50
Colin:
yes, my bet is on the nortryptiline too, I am somewhat stable right now so I may wait until my exam is over in October. I like what I hear about the low doses are effective, but with less side effects. Maybe I am just looking for the holy grail, but I feel if I can get back to working out I can help myself a lot more. I just need something that doesn't have such horrible side effects, and make me feel like a pile of dung after expending some energy with excercise.
My prayers are with you and your father too. Don't let yourself be guilted that you might not be doing enough because of your moods. I had the same exact feeling and that was before I became ill. It wasn't until a few years later when I became ill that I had this horrible guilt like I didn't do enough. It was the illness and nowhere near the truth. In fact, I did a lot because I was the only sibling living in the same city. It was rough, but my mother and I became closer, and I look back, albeit somewhat tearful, happy I had even the rough moments with my dad.
<<<That's been the worse aspect- being needed, but not being in the driving seat with my moods has meant I haven't been responding anywhere near as well as I should be.>>>
You just saying that confirms to me you are performing most admirably under the circumstances. Remember you pops isn't seeing the "depression" when he sees you he is seeing his son. Just a person's voice or presence is powerful stuff. I wish you peace and strength. If you ever have any questions fire away. I don't mind discussing it at all. But, I need to discuss things whereas others have other ways of coping. You are doing fine.
Have a Guinness with him for me.
Cheers
Johnj
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