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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Janelle on May 9, 2002, at 3:22:17
Given my bouts of severe depression and ongoing bad insomnia (extreme difficulty falling asleep), I'm going to talk to my pdoc about trying Remeron or Serzone. (I'm currently on Effexor for depression)
I got some great info as part of another thread above about one person's experience with both of these meds (thanks allisonm if you're reading this!) and now I would like to see if there's any kind of consensus of experience/feelings about Remeron and Serzone.
What I'd appreciate being addressed by those who have taken Remeron, Serzone or even both, is:
How sedating do/did you find whichever you take/took in terms helping you sleep and especially regarding a lingering *hang-over*, foggy effect the next day (if you take/took them at night) or how foggy do/did they make you feel during the day if that's when you take/took them?
For those who've tried BOTH of them, which one did you find more sedating?
How effective are/were whichever you take/took in terms of AD properties? (I've heard anecdotely that Remeron is the *better* of the two in this area and that Serzone is a *weak* AD and more of a sleeping pill.)
To those who've tried both of them, which did you find to be more effective for depression?
I realize that everyone's reactions to meds differs, but would appreciate feedback from whoever can share their experience(s) and thoughts about these particular ones. Thanks.
Posted by rainbowlight on May 9, 2002, at 3:30:20
In reply to To Remeron +/or Serzone users:, posted by Janelle on May 9, 2002, at 3:22:17
I have taken Remeron for about 9 months now. It brought me out of a suicidal depression. For me it has been on of the best anti-depressants I have ever used. It is supposed to be very sedating, but it is not sedating at all for me. In fact it doesn't even help put me to sleep. I have no day time grogginess either. I think it works very well for depression, but it doesn't work very well if you are using it for anxiety or OCD, in my opinion.
Posted by Janelle on May 9, 2002, at 3:34:23
In reply to Re: To Remeron +/or Serzone users:, posted by rainbowlight on May 9, 2002, at 3:30:20
Posted by allisonm on May 9, 2002, at 6:36:30
In reply to To Remeron +/or Serzone users:, posted by Janelle on May 9, 2002, at 3:22:17
You might want to look back in the archives, or on the two web sites people have made on mirtazapine (Remeron) and on nefazodone (Serzone)-- links to those pages can be found at the top of this page.
Would suggest looking or searching for posts on Remeron and Effexor XR together. It is supposed to be a very effective combination and has been nicknamed "California Rocketfuel."
Posted by Janelle on May 9, 2002, at 15:43:00
In reply to Janelle, one more thing - California Rocketfuel, posted by allisonm on May 9, 2002, at 6:36:30
Hi,
Thanks for the great suggestions. I sure will look back in the archives and the web sites people have made on mirtazapine (Remeron) and on nefazodone (Serzone) - I read the top of the page when I first found this website, but since then I seem to just automatically hit the page down or end key to go directly to posting - I should keep re-reading the top of the page, check it before I post because it has such valuable links!
In this case, I wanted to get some current/new people's experiences with Remeron and/or Effexor, but so far not much response!
Re: EffexorXR and Remeron - HOLY COW, cuz I'm already on EffexorXR so it would be easy for me to just add the Remeron and get going on some "California Rocketfuel!"
Thanks again! :-)
-Janelle
Posted by katekite on May 9, 2002, at 19:08:12
In reply to To Remeron +/or Serzone users:, posted by Janelle on May 9, 2002, at 3:22:17
I found remeron sleep inducing, with a hangover (for me), but it did work the first day as far as sleep help went. Serzone I found mildly sedating with no hangover. I would recommend remeron over serzone for a trial if sleep is a major problem. You would know within a few days if remeron would help since it is usually started at an effective dose, whereas with serzone I think you might have to work up to a helpful dose. Thus remeron would be a quick trial, ie make an appointment for one week later in case it is too sedating, then get serzone. -- kate
Posted by fachad on May 9, 2002, at 20:16:49
In reply to To Remeron +/or Serzone users:, posted by Janelle on May 9, 2002, at 3:22:17
Janelle,
I took Serzone for quite a while. It did not cause sleep problems, but it did not help with sleep either.
Remeron, on the other hand, whoa! It really MADE me sleep, like there was NO choice. I slept very soundly and for along time, and the hangover was not too bad.
If you can avoid the weight gain, Remeron is sure nice. And it is supposed to be one of the more powerful ADs, especially when it’s combined with Effexor.
If you do try Remeron, ask your pdoc for regular tables rather than SolTabs. The SolTabs dissolve in your mouth, but you cannot split them to get different dosages - it's 30 mg or nothing. Some people find 7.5 mg or 15 mg better for sleep than 30mg, and there is less chance of hangover with lower doses.
Right now I am taking trimipramine (Surmontil) for sleep. It works very well and it has been extensively shown in studies not to mess up natural human sleep architecture.
> Given my bouts of severe depression and ongoing bad insomnia (extreme difficulty falling asleep), I'm going to talk to my pdoc about trying Remeron or Serzone. (I'm currently on Effexor for depression)
>
> I got some great info as part of another thread above about one person's experience with both of these meds (thanks allisonm if you're reading this!) and now I would like to see if there's any kind of consensus of experience/feelings about Remeron and Serzone.
>
> What I'd appreciate being addressed by those who have taken Remeron, Serzone or even both, is:
>
> How sedating do/did you find whichever you take/took in terms helping you sleep and especially regarding a lingering *hang-over*, foggy effect the next day (if you take/took them at night) or how foggy do/did they make you feel during the day if that's when you take/took them?
>
> For those who've tried BOTH of them, which one did you find more sedating?
>
> How effective are/were whichever you take/took in terms of AD properties? (I've heard anecdotely that Remeron is the *better* of the two in this area and that Serzone is a *weak* AD and more of a sleeping pill.)
>
> To those who've tried both of them, which did you find to be more effective for depression?
>
> I realize that everyone's reactions to meds differs, but would appreciate feedback from whoever can share their experience(s) and thoughts about these particular ones. Thanks.
Posted by jay on May 9, 2002, at 21:53:49
In reply to Remeron +/or Serzone users (I've Taken Both) » Janelle, posted by fachad on May 9, 2002, at 20:16:49
Hi:
I was just wondering, did you find the help of a benzo with Trimipramine and/or Remeron helpful? Have you ever taken Effexor, and how do Trimip and Remeron compare? Do you get that nice relaxed 'benzo' feeling with the Trimip or Remeron? Thanx..
Jay
Posted by JohnX2 on May 9, 2002, at 22:22:35
In reply to Remeron +/or Serzone users (I've Taken Both) » Janelle, posted by fachad on May 9, 2002, at 20:16:49
Janelle,
To each his own, as always.
Taken both Remeron and Serzone.
Both helped a lot with sleep.Serzone was more likely to make me drowsy during the day.
Remeron did not make me drowsy during the day.
I would like to note, that I have seen this go either
way (some people get hangover from Serzone, some from
Remeron, I don't personally see a clear trend).As far as weight gain goes, I gained a lot of weight on
Serzone the 1st go around (without Lamictal). I've gained
no weight with Lamictal. The medicine makes me much less
drowsy and lethargic while taking my lamictal. In general
weight gain doesn't seem to be a big issue on Serzone.
For Remeron, I had no weight gain. But a lot of people gain
weight on Remeron.I started Remeron to help with my sleep (as I developed
tolerance to Klonopin and severe rebound insomnia). Remeron
was an effective medicine.I dropped Remeron later in favor of Zyprexa, which worked just
as well for me.I then switched to Serzone (for the 2nd trial of Serzone), because
I needed a medicine to help with headaches.Remeron has an advantage over Serzone that it is quick acting.
Serzone takes a while to titrate the dose and the improvement in
sleep generally takes at least a week to be noted.Again, these are all anecdotal experiences and trends. How you
do may vary, yada, yada, default disclaimer..blah...Take Care,
John
> Janelle,
>
> I took Serzone for quite a while. It did not cause sleep problems, but it did not help with sleep either.
>
> Remeron, on the other hand, whoa! It really MADE me sleep, like there was NO choice. I slept very soundly and for along time, and the hangover was not too bad.
>
> If you can avoid the weight gain, Remeron is sure nice. And it is supposed to be one of the more powerful ADs, especially when it’s combined with Effexor.
>
> If you do try Remeron, ask your pdoc for regular tables rather than SolTabs. The SolTabs dissolve in your mouth, but you cannot split them to get different dosages - it's 30 mg or nothing. Some people find 7.5 mg or 15 mg better for sleep than 30mg, and there is less chance of hangover with lower doses.
>
> Right now I am taking trimipramine (Surmontil) for sleep. It works very well and it has been extensively shown in studies not to mess up natural human sleep architecture.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Given my bouts of severe depression and ongoing bad insomnia (extreme difficulty falling asleep), I'm going to talk to my pdoc about trying Remeron or Serzone. (I'm currently on Effexor for depression)
> >
> > I got some great info as part of another thread above about one person's experience with both of these meds (thanks allisonm if you're reading this!) and now I would like to see if there's any kind of consensus of experience/feelings about Remeron and Serzone.
> >
> > What I'd appreciate being addressed by those who have taken Remeron, Serzone or even both, is:
> >
> > How sedating do/did you find whichever you take/took in terms helping you sleep and especially regarding a lingering *hang-over*, foggy effect the next day (if you take/took them at night) or how foggy do/did they make you feel during the day if that's when you take/took them?
> >
> > For those who've tried BOTH of them, which one did you find more sedating?
> >
> > How effective are/were whichever you take/took in terms of AD properties? (I've heard anecdotely that Remeron is the *better* of the two in this area and that Serzone is a *weak* AD and more of a sleeping pill.)
> >
> > To those who've tried both of them, which did you find to be more effective for depression?
> >
> > I realize that everyone's reactions to meds differs, but would appreciate feedback from whoever can share their experience(s) and thoughts about these particular ones. Thanks.
Posted by johnj on May 9, 2002, at 22:33:40
In reply to To Remeron +/or Serzone users:, posted by Janelle on May 9, 2002, at 3:22:17
I took remeron for 3 months. I was excercising and started having sleep problems again. At first I took 30 mg and it knocked me out and I had good sleep. I then slowly raised my dose to 45 and the spacey feeling never got any better. The best term I have heard was "sponge brain", that is the best description of how I felt. I went back down to 30 and then down to 15. At 15 I could not shake the zoned out feeling and was always foggy. I went lower to 7.5 and slept 10 hours only to wake totally wiped out. Went back to 15 and just couldn't take the zoned out feeling any longer. Remeron gave me better concentration at work i.e. less anxiety, but my ability to learn seemed hampered. Very strange if you ask me.
I also had lots of stumbling with words at higher doses. I then added 20 mg of imipramine to my 50 mg of nortryptline and felt much better(both are TCA's). Remeron just dulled everything for me, even sex, and that was very difficult for me. I know feel better and even if I don't sleep 7 hours I can function and learn. People dismiss the TCA's but I think they are underated. They have helped me. I am in the process of switching to imipramine since I have hopes it may not cause the problems I have had with excercise while on nortryptline. I also take 600 mg of lithobid and 7.5 mg of tranxen(a benzo). With some people I have heard that the spaced out feeling goes away, but for me it just didn't work. If you NEED to try something new remeron might be it. Personally, I would have tried serzone first. Good luck.
JOhnj
Posted by JohnX2 on May 9, 2002, at 22:52:12
In reply to Re: To Remeron +/or Serzone users:, posted by katekite on May 9, 2002, at 19:08:12
> I found remeron sleep inducing, with a hangover (for me), but it did work the first day as far as sleep help went. Serzone I found mildly sedating with no hangover. I would recommend remeron over serzone for a trial if sleep is a major problem. You would know within a few days if remeron would help since it is usually started at an effective dose, whereas with serzone I think you might have to work up to a helpful dose. Thus remeron would be a quick trial, ie make an appointment for one week later in case it is too sedating, then get serzone. -- kate
Ditto. Maybe try the Remeron 1st as it is a quick experiment, and if it
doesn't pan out then consider alternatives.John
Posted by Janelle on May 10, 2002, at 2:44:45
In reply to Remeron +/or Serzone users (I've Taken Both) » Janelle, posted by fachad on May 9, 2002, at 20:16:49
Posted by fachad on May 10, 2002, at 8:21:04
In reply to Question Re: Remeron/Trimipramine » fachad, posted by jay on May 9, 2002, at 21:53:49
I recently tried benzos, specifically temazepam and lorazepam, for the first time, for sleep. I did not like the feeling they gave me. It was a dysphoric, dull, lethargic feeling.
On the other hand, I really do enjoy the feeling from sedating TCAs. Doxepin and trimipramine both give me a very nice, warm, quieted feeling that still feels sharp and pleasant compared to the dull benzo feeling. Same for Remeron.
I also sleep better on TCAs than beznos. The only reason I still take benzos for sleep is that they do not make me gain weight like the TCAs.
I have taken Effexor, and as far as how Trimipramine and Remeron compare to Effexor, I don’t really know because I was taking Effexor at full dosages for depression, and I take Remeron or Trimip at very low dosages for sleep.
> Hi:
>
> I was just wondering, did you find the help of a benzo with Trimipramine and/or Remeron helpful? Have you ever taken Effexor, and how do Trimip and Remeron compare? Do you get that nice relaxed 'benzo' feeling with the Trimip or Remeron? Thanx..
>
> Jay
Posted by fachad on May 10, 2002, at 8:22:03
In reply to Fachad: Why did you stop the Remeron? (nm) » fachad, posted by Janelle on May 10, 2002, at 2:44:45
Q: Fachad: Why did you stop the Remeron?
A: Weight Gain.
Posted by MoBe on November 15, 2002, at 21:03:40
In reply to Re: Question Re: Remeron/Trimipramine » jay, posted by fachad on May 10, 2002, at 8:21:04
> I recently tried benzos, specifically temazepam and lorazepam, for the first time, for sleep. I did not like the feeling they gave me. It was a dysphoric, dull, lethargic feeling.
>
> On the other hand, I really do enjoy the feeling from sedating TCAs. Doxepin and trimipramine both give me a very nice, warm, quieted feeling that still feels sharp and pleasant compared to the dull benzo feeling. Same for Remeron.
>
> I also sleep better on TCAs than beznos. The only reason I still take benzos for sleep is that they do not make me gain weight like the TCAs.
>
> I have taken Effexor, and as far as how Trimipramine and Remeron compare to Effexor, I don’t really know because I was taking Effexor at full dosages for depression, and I take Remeron or Trimip at very low dosages for sleep.
>
>
>
> > Hi:
> >
> > I was just wondering, did you find the help of a benzo with Trimipramine and/or Remeron helpful? Have you ever taken Effexor, and how do Trimip and Remeron compare? Do you get that nice relaxed 'benzo' feeling with the Trimip or Remeron? Thanx..
> >
> > Jay
>
> I've been taking remeron 15 mg and wellbutrin 150mg on and off (but mostly on) for quite some time now. I've never slept better than when I've taken remeron. Unfortunately, like everyone else I find the weight gain and constipation a problem. I'm determined to solve the problems in order to save the good sleep remeron gives me. Anyone out there count calories, in order to determine if remeron makes you actually gain weight when you take in, let's say, only 1500 calories? Or is it only because people have carb cravings and they do indeed overeat? And the constipation - yikes!! I've been solving it with prunes, but too many of those, not only are high in calories; but also leave a water logged, bloated feeling. I'm hesitant to routinely use senna as I have read that stimulant laxatives will eventually cause your intestine not to work without it. Any ideas appreciated!!
Thanks
MoBe
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