![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 117 to 141 of 350. Go back in thread:
Posted by IsoM on March 11, 2002, at 22:31:38
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by Helen on March 11, 2002, at 22:07:22
Helen, I'm not a good one to advise you. I find the more I learn, the more I realise how little I know. I think for a while that I'm pretty knowledgable about the mind & depression, relatively speaking, then something extra is thrown in & I have no answer for it.
My take on it: I feel the dopamine connection is too overlooked. So many people seem to have faulty dopamine receptors/production/blah, blah... Why is our society so lacking in this area. I don't even know the right words to use as I don't understand just what is wrong. All I know is dopamine is associated with energy, purpose, contentment, pleasure, happiness, all the opposite of what so many people feel today. We have a society filled with apathetic & indifferent people who don't like feeling this way. So we seek whatever it is that will give us that boost, temporary as it is.
Excuse my rant. I think the connection with this neurotransmitter is too over looked. Perhaps you should explore the possiblity of a medication that will enhance that area instead.
Posted by IsoM on March 12, 2002, at 1:26:51
In reply to Re: Feeling Slow (and porky) » Zo, posted by BarbaraCat on March 11, 2002, at 17:04:31
Barbara, don't feel so bad you went back to bed & didn't go for a walk. We can know what might be best for us, but it can be so difficult to work up enthusiasm for it by yourself, especially when the day's grey & your poor, old body aches.
It's hard to let go of that image of the young slip of a girl who used to look back in the mirror at us. I'm not fat by any means, but I used to have a 23" waist, it's more like 27" now. No, I'm not complaining but I was just a slip too, plus I really DO have small bones - my wedding ring was only a 4 1/2 & most people can circle my wrist with their thumb & forefinger.
It's one thing to get moving so your joints & muscles warm up & the pain almost leaves, but an hour or so after you stop, the pain comes back. I stay warm during the day if I'm active, but at night, I strangely get cold. In winter (& I mean the Pacific Northwest winter - not bad at all), I go to bed with flannel jammies, an undershirt, wool socks on (it keeps my feet from paining during the night) all under a down comforter in a heated water bed. It helps ease the pain to a bearable level & I can leave the window open a little for fresh air.
It sucks to grow old - everybody throughout history has hated it, but now our society doesn't honour age like it did in most cultures before. Even in Japan & China, cultures that used to revere their elders, it's fast disappearing. At least before, we could look forward to be honoured & our wisdom sought after.
Just a thought on pain & your fibromyalgia. I found that the more I used painkillers, the less my body was able to make its own. Nothing to do with dependence or addiction/tolerance developing, just with external painkillers, the ability of my body to produce my own went way down. I spent some painful weeks doing without. Now I'll only use them when I can't sleep for pain or if it gets too, too much. My pain tolerance has either improved or my body has adjusted. My Mom found the same thing. But maybe our similar body make-up accounts for this, rather than it being true for most people.
Posted by Lorraine on March 12, 2002, at 9:53:16
In reply to Re: Feeling Slow (and porky) » IsoM, posted by BarbaraCat on March 10, 2002, at 2:15:25
Barbara: What worked for me was low carb (then you don't have to worry about your fatty cravings). I lost 55 pounds low carb. Also, I cut back on my exercise vigorousness (switched to pilates and yoga).
Lorraine
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 12, 2002, at 12:00:15
In reply to Re: No Brainer Job » BarbaraCat, posted by IsoM on March 11, 2002, at 18:09:33
Oh, that sounds like so much fun! I compare your caring attitute and getting a good workout with sitting in a dreary cube all day running around to meetings and dealing with prima donna politic mongers and it's a no brainer who has the better job. - B.
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 12, 2002, at 12:09:58
In reply to Re: Feeling Slow (and porky) » BarbaraCat, posted by Lorraine on March 12, 2002, at 9:53:16
Did you work with any specific low carb diet? There are so many out there, some that are low fat, some that allow fat (Schwartzbein Diet). I'm also about to start another exercise (using VHSs), Oxycise, which uses a kind of deep breathing to burn fat. Like yoga, but more calisthenic. I've done some Pilates and will get back to it using my DVDs. One of the big problems for me is that I live in a little village in the middle of nowhere and there isn't much in the way of exercise classes. I'm looking forward to Spring when I can get outside and walk and rev up the metabolism. Also, a big dream is to get my bod in shape and then offer some classes to others around here. Lord knows, we all need it. - B.
> Barbara: What worked for me was low carb (then you don't have to worry about your fatty cravings). I lost 55 pounds low carb. Also, I cut back on my exercise vigorousness (switched to pilates and yoga).
>
> Lorraine
Posted by IsoM on March 12, 2002, at 12:11:05
In reply to Re: No Brainer Job » IsoM, posted by BarbaraCat on March 12, 2002, at 12:00:15
Posted by Cam W. on March 13, 2002, at 0:57:59
In reply to Re: Receptors and ADs (rather long) » BarbaraCat, posted by IsoM on March 9, 2002, at 14:23:19
IsoM - That was very interesting. Do you know if any studies have been done. I know that a lot of pdocs will use a low dose stimulant for the anergia some people get with the SSRIs. - Cam
... ADs for +15 years ... imipramine ... headaches ... no improvement with the headaches ... noticable improvement with my mood ... feel unhappy & irritable fairly often.
>
... due to the environment & circumstances ...
TCAs made life much more bearable ... wanted to go off my ADs ... 7 years, I've tried going it alone 3 times & each time, conceded defeat ... black, bleak, & a smoldering rage ... Without ADs, I hate the personality that emerges. Without them, I have no will or control to fight my feelings.
>
> I found that stopping Luvox was horrible but stopping Paxil was even worse. The discontinuation/withdrawal symptoms never went away, even after a year & now taking Celexa which was working very well. Brain zaps, vertigo, & spacey feeelings continued so I ended up going back on Paxil (10 mg only) along with my Celexa. The symptoms didn't clear completely but did become managable. But I still wanted off the Paxil. I hated being dependent on a drug that would make you feel that horrible from even being late with the dose.
>
> I now take adrafinil (Olmifon) along with my Celexa. Provigil is similar to Olmifon. It's supposed to increase over-all brain metabolism & I thought I'd see if I could do without Paxil & give it one more try. When I stopped the Paxil, I didn't even notice. No return of symptoms - nothing! I attribute it to the adrafinil. Nothing else is different. Nothing else explains it.
>
Posted by Lorraine on March 13, 2002, at 1:41:49
In reply to Re: Feeling Slow (and porky) » Lorraine, posted by BarbaraCat on March 12, 2002, at 12:09:58
Barbara: Started off with Atkins and have been low carb ever since. Atkins is pretty fast working. 55 lbs in 7 months. Now, I'm less aggressive about it--I'll eat some rice, beans. But I really fail to see the nutritional value in processed carbs, like bread, pasta, cake, sugar etc. So I stick with the low carb and now that the sugar and carb cravings are gone, it's an easy way of life. I do eat vegetables and fruit, of course, though I stay away from the more sugary ones like bananas. Anyway, good luck however you do it and starting an exercise class sounds like a great idea. You might even get a church or community center to donate space to start informally using one of your videos.
Lorraine
Posted by IsoM on March 13, 2002, at 23:19:13
In reply to Re: Receptors and ADs (rather long) » IsoM, posted by Cam W. on March 13, 2002, at 0:57:59
I hope you don't click on this post hoping to see a list of studies done on this. I think it's far too new (Provigil usage, I mean) to see any studies yet. I'm going to e-mail Dr. Ivan who posts here occasionally & ask him what he thinks.
Anecdotal experiences can get one thinking but I don't rely much on them - having a scientific bend, I want to see hard facts & credible, well-controlled studies too. I ran a little low on adrafinil a few days ago & cut back on my dosing. Interestingly, I found my long-time SSRI disonctinuation/withdrawal symtoms showing up again. Things like swinging my head quickly to one side to look at something (checking traffic or turning towards someone) made the vertigo feeling come back & I noticed a few, mild brain zaps again. Seems the adrafinil does something good for my brain chemistry that either 1) prevents the symptoms from happening, or 2) masks the symptoms so that it they happen, they're too mild to notice.
Cam, if you ever come across any more of the pharmokinetics of Provigl (or adrafinil) would you e-mail them to me, or let me know on this forum? Anything on brain scans on either of the meds would be interesting too. Part of my interest is simply because I can't stand not understanging something that interests me & the other reason is my ADHD working a topic to death. :-)
Posted by Cam W. on March 14, 2002, at 0:37:24
In reply to Re: SSRIs and Stims - Studies » Cam W., posted by IsoM on March 13, 2002, at 23:19:13
Posted by Em on March 14, 2002, at 13:52:01
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by MaddieGrace on October 18, 2001, at 11:56:00
Holy cow! Just when you think you are alone in all of this or just losing your marbles you type in "Zoloft Withdrawal" on the search engine...I took Zoloft during my last pregnancy as that was the only drug that was ok'd for use during pregnancy. After birth, I switched to Celexa and didn't have withdrawal that I recall. A couple months ago and pregnant again, I got on 50 mg of Zoloft. Then a week ago, a perinatologist said a new study was showing babies having withdrawal symptoms after birth. Can you imagine newborns suffering what you all have just described?! So I cut back to 25mg for two days then forgot to take them and just left off for good. So it has been less than a week, but I have cried about every day, thrown up with regularity and felt suicidal. Add that to being 7 months pregnant and I have been going out of my mind. Maybe I will go back or maybe I won't. I really don't want to put my newborn through this. I suppose he already is to some degree. I will definitely share this information with others. You have no idea what support this site has been to me.
Posted by IsoM on March 14, 2002, at 14:34:41
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by Em on March 14, 2002, at 13:52:01
If you go back to Zoloft, you can always nurse your baby & some will get through your milk, preventing the discontinuation symptoms from happening to him. Then you can taper off it yourself, enabling him/her to taper off at the same time.
Posted by Terry Grigg on March 18, 2002, at 18:44:28
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft » AW, posted by onlooker on August 31, 2000, at 15:30:47
My sex drive is dead, problem is it was very much alive before taking zoloft for 3 months, it's been 2 years now since my last zoloft tablet, going back before zoloft i did have a problem with sexual fantasty, every time I saw a beautiful female body I found it very hard to not want & not to keep looking at, to the extent of causing problems. Only one day after taking zoloft this problem went along with my sex drive. Now 2 years on I can get an erection & orgasm , but no Feeling
Posted by oona on March 27, 2002, at 21:47:14
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by BarbaraCat on February 26, 2002, at 0:21:09
I posted this under Zoloft Withdrawal but probably would get a wider response under "withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft:
I am a 50 plus female and I started on Wellbutrim about four days ago. The SR purple pill (with the happy face if you turn in upside down.. I started on Zoloft about 6 - 7 years ago, going from 25, up to 50, to 100, to 150, then going down again as needed.
The funny peculiar part of this is that my husband started Zoloft on a research project in 95/96 to get off alchol and it works for him and he is fine with it, says he may be on it for the rest of his life. He was doing so well that I started on it for my depression and anxiety which I have had since 15, before that I think I was ADHD or whatever they call it now. Then they would call you a problem child. So the zoloft really worked for me.
BUT, I dont want to be on it for the rest of my life. What would happen if we could not get our meds. If there was an attack or war which could very easily happen and we would be unable to get meds. What a mess..
I have been on 100, down to 50 down to 25 for about a year, going up and down as needed. Could not just stop as I got withdrawal and I really want to stop as my husband is on Zoloft and it tends to inhibit your libido so you do not care if you have sex or not. The doc said I may always be on Zoloft, except when I brought up the sex issue, he right away mentioned the Welbutrin. I stopped Zoloft about 3 days before I started the Wellbutrim. Yesterday was the worse and I knew I had to work today so I took a 50 mg Zoloft and felt better. Have to check with doc about this as it looks like people are taking zoloft and wellbutrim from reading this site. I will probably just try to take 25 mg. every other day and then cold turkey the easter weekend with four days off and just stay on the Wellbutrim. Does anyone think I should ask the doctor for Ativan to get me thru the weekend. I have been taking Tylenol pm or benedryl for sleep but it does not always work.
My general mental health is ok and I am at an ok place in my life after a lifetime of depression, neurosis, mania etc. etc. Just want to get to a place physically where I can deal with my mind and body.
Also did anyone hear the report tonight about the seratonin and chance of brain cancer if you take AD for too long?Next day, WED:
I take my Wellbutrin around 5:30 6:30, so maybe that is why I am feeling wierd around bedtime. I did not want to take it at the beginning of the business day as I am new at my job and thought it may seem odd if I start twitching and acting wierd.I took a Zoloft last night, 50 mg but am going to try not to take one tonight, just the Tylenol pm.
Does any one else know about switching to Wellbutrin from Zoloft. Should I take the Wellbutrin in the am. I thought since it is time released SR that it did not matter. Should I just not take the zoloft at all and hope for the best? My doctor always asks me what do I want to do as if I know, he would say, if you feel more comfortable on the Zoloft then stop the Wellbutrin. I just want to get off the Zoloft for good. I thought at first it was a wonder drug but now wish I had never started. Also, I have heard of Therapeautic oils, not the cheap ones but the ones that are slowly processed and potent. I tried some and they really seem to work. I want to order and read more about them. The process is to complicated for myself to explain but I read some of it on my.youngliving.com that was really interesting. Something just has to work.
We must be able to heal ourselves.Dont you all feel like standing on the mountain top or street corner (wherever you live) and scream HELP!
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 27, 2002, at 23:18:25
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft » BarbaraCat, posted by oona on March 27, 2002, at 21:47:14
Dear Oona,
I hear you, loud and clear. I especially relate to the part about 'what if we coudn't get our drugs if a war broke out, etc.'. I often think about that, but figure that in a situation like that, we'd do whatever it takes to get through. We'd never miss the meds because we'd be so busy handling life and before you know it, poof, we'd be clear of them. It's amazing what we can handle if pressed to the ground, depressed or not, if we're committed to staying among the living.
I know about Youngliving and like their philosophy about using natural essences and oils therapeutically. I'm also very much interested in natural healing and have been studying one form or another for about 30 years - yoga, meditation, herbs, etc. I use alot of nutritional support and it helps, I've not yet found the perfect combination that will let me stop taking my medications.
I haven't able to permanently call it quits with antidepressants and I've tried to taper off many times. In fact, I've been off them completely for 6-8 months at a time several times. I've always had to go back on them because I'd get blitzed out by the very severe stress I was experiencing in my life, money, jobs, so on and so forth. I'd start to unravel and lose it, crying constantly and becoming very fearful and sleepless. So I'd go back onto AD's and be very grateful for them. They've always helped and at this point I'm resigned to having to take them.
IF anything happens and my supply runs out, I'll probably hole myself up somewhere and scream and gnash my teeth for a few months, hoping that the drug wears off and my neurotramitters get back to a normal state. I don't know anymore if I need the meds because I started them in the first place, or if my chemistry really needs them. My plan is to take my current regiment, Remeron, lithium and klonopin, in order to really get my life in sync, get a good healthy regimen stabilized and then try to reduce again. I'm not working in a high stress environment any more so I'm hoping that my more peaceful lifestyle will prevent any relapses. I simply cannot handle stress, especially stupid unnecessary stress.
I would most definitely ask your doctor for an anti-anxiety med. Klonopin works well for me because it doesn't space me out at all. I also take Ambien to sleep at night. Again, if you can go without it's always better so that you don't have to deal with yet another drug to wean off, however, most benzos would be much safer and more effective than the Tylenol PM you're relying on. You have to be concerned about kidney problems with Tylenol.
Your comment about worrying about what might happen is a clear indication that you're suffering from worry and anxiety. In my experience, if this disorder (anxiety) is not first taken care of, the anxiety will break through the antidepressant and render the med ineffective. Many of us here on this board use ADs along with some kind of mood stabilizer and have been getting better results than with ADs alone. Good luck to you and keep in touch. - Barbara
Posted by oona on March 28, 2002, at 22:09:05
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft » oona, posted by BarbaraCat on March 27, 2002, at 23:18:25
Barbara,
Thanks for your reply. It has been a long time since I spoke with anyone regarding these problems. I will probably start seeing a psych doc or someone now that I have insurance again.I have had problems all my life, child abuse mentally, physically and sexually. Hospitalized in state hosp. from 15 years to 17, (the whole bit, isolation, drugged, straigt jackets, and some wierd drug I think is called paraldahyde or something like that. They used to inject you with it when you started acting out so it would knock you out and you woke up either in isolation or strapped down, depending on how bad you acted. After that period I was in and out of psych wards for awhile.
Thank god for the sixties, I think the LSD liberated me from the melaril/thorazine/librium. Of course I had to step out of the sixties and after many lifetimes, 2 husbands, 3 children, here it is, 2002.
If I was a writer, I would write a book about all of this but then who would be interested?? At least it would be therapeautic or cleansing.
I guess looking back at all this, the zoloft did help for awhile and I am thankful for that. I remember about 6 months on Zoloft, I thought, wow this is what is like to be normal!
So now onto the next step, Wellbutrin then hopefully, work into a health regime that will allow me to be drug free.
thanks again....oona..
> Dear Oona,
>
> I hear you, loud and clear. I especially relate to the part about 'what if we coudn't get our drugs if a war broke out, etc.'. I often think about that, but figure that in a situation like that, we'd do whatever it takes to get through. We'd never miss the meds because we'd be so busy handling life and before you know it, poof, we'd be clear of them. It's amazing what we can handle if pressed to the ground, depressed or not, if we're committed to staying among the living.
>
> I know about Youngliving and like their philosophy about using natural essences and oils therapeutically. I'm also very much interested in natural healing and have been studying one form or another for about 30 years - yoga, meditation, herbs, etc. I use alot of nutritional support and it helps, I've not yet found the perfect combination that will let me stop taking my medications.
>
> I haven't able to permanently call it quits with antidepressants and I've tried to taper off many times. In fact, I've been off them completely for 6-8 months at a time several times. I've always had to go back on them because I'd get blitzed out by the very severe stress I was experiencing in my life, money, jobs, so on and so forth. I'd start to unravel and lose it, crying constantly and becoming very fearful and sleepless. So I'd go back onto AD's and be very grateful for them. They've always helped and at this point I'm resigned to having to take them.
>
> IF anything happens and my supply runs out, I'll probably hole myself up somewhere and scream and gnash my teeth for a few months, hoping that the drug wears off and my neurotramitters get back to a normal state. I don't know anymore if I need the meds because I started them in the first place, or if my chemistry really needs them. My plan is to take my current regiment, Remeron, lithium and klonopin, in order to really get my life in sync, get a good healthy regimen stabilized and then try to reduce again. I'm not working in a high stress environment any more so I'm hoping that my more peaceful lifestyle will prevent any relapses. I simply cannot handle stress, especially stupid unnecessary stress.
>
> I would most definitely ask your doctor for an anti-anxiety med. Klonopin works well for me because it doesn't space me out at all. I also take Ambien to sleep at night. Again, if you can go without it's always better so that you don't have to deal with yet another drug to wean off, however, most benzos would be much safer and more effective than the Tylenol PM you're relying on. You have to be concerned about kidney problems with Tylenol.
>
> Your comment about worrying about what might happen is a clear indication that you're suffering from worry and anxiety. In my experience, if this disorder (anxiety) is not first taken care of, the anxiety will break through the antidepressant and render the med ineffective. Many of us here on this board use ADs along with some kind of mood stabilizer and have been getting better results than with ADs alone. Good luck to you and keep in touch. - Barbara
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 29, 2002, at 1:14:41
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by oona on March 28, 2002, at 22:09:05
Oona,
Ah, yes I think I remember the 60's. I thank God for psychedelics as well because they introduced me to the possibility of a higher minded, more spirit oriented way of living. I've always kept those ideals. However, I also was self-medicating with way too much methadrine at that time, as well as anything else I could get my hands on. Oh well, those were the times I guess.I too was abused as a child and there are studies showing that the structure of the brain gets changed as a result of early trauma. But I think there's always hope and healing. I have to say now that I'm feeling so much better that all those experiences made me a much stronger and more compassionate person and I don't have too many regrets. I only hope that eventually I learn how to not worry so much when I'm having a bad episode. I want very much to learn trust in this lifetime. That's difficult when fear and trauma were constant companions as a child.
I hope you do start a journal, at least. It sounds like your life was very 'interesting'. When you say institutionalized from 15 to 17, do you mean agewise, or that many years?
If the Wellbutrin doesn't work, try not to be too discouraged. Ask the folks here on this board for advice, their experiences, anything you want to know. I've found the combined knowledge and experience here to be very powerful. All the best to you. - Barbara
> Barbara,
> Thanks for your reply. It has been a long time since I spoke with anyone regarding these problems. I will probably start seeing a psych doc or someone now that I have insurance again.
>
> I have had problems all my life, child abuse mentally, physically and sexually. Hospitalized in state hosp. from 15 years to 17, (the whole bit, isolation, drugged, straigt jackets, and some wierd drug I think is called paraldahyde or something like that. They used to inject you with it when you started acting out so it would knock you out and you woke up either in isolation or strapped down, depending on how bad you acted. After that period I was in and out of psych wards for awhile.
>
> Thank god for the sixties, I think the LSD liberated me from the melaril/thorazine/librium. Of course I had to step out of the sixties and after many lifetimes, 2 husbands, 3 children, here it is, 2002.
>
> If I was a writer, I would write a book about all of this but then who would be interested?? At least it would be therapeautic or cleansing.
>
> I guess looking back at all this, the zoloft did help for awhile and I am thankful for that. I remember about 6 months on Zoloft, I thought, wow this is what is like to be normal!
>
> So now onto the next step, Wellbutrin then hopefully, work into a health regime that will allow me to be drug free.
>
> thanks again....oona..
>
> > Dear Oona,
> >
> > I hear you, loud and clear. I especially relate to the part about 'what if we coudn't get our drugs if a war broke out, etc.'. I often think about that, but figure that in a situation like that, we'd do whatever it takes to get through. We'd never miss the meds because we'd be so busy handling life and before you know it, poof, we'd be clear of them. It's amazing what we can handle if pressed to the ground, depressed or not, if we're committed to staying among the living.
> >
> > I know about Youngliving and like their philosophy about using natural essences and oils therapeutically. I'm also very much interested in natural healing and have been studying one form or another for about 30 years - yoga, meditation, herbs, etc. I use alot of nutritional support and it helps, I've not yet found the perfect combination that will let me stop taking my medications.
> >
> > I haven't able to permanently call it quits with antidepressants and I've tried to taper off many times. In fact, I've been off them completely for 6-8 months at a time several times. I've always had to go back on them because I'd get blitzed out by the very severe stress I was experiencing in my life, money, jobs, so on and so forth. I'd start to unravel and lose it, crying constantly and becoming very fearful and sleepless. So I'd go back onto AD's and be very grateful for them. They've always helped and at this point I'm resigned to having to take them.
> >
> > IF anything happens and my supply runs out, I'll probably hole myself up somewhere and scream and gnash my teeth for a few months, hoping that the drug wears off and my neurotramitters get back to a normal state. I don't know anymore if I need the meds because I started them in the first place, or if my chemistry really needs them. My plan is to take my current regiment, Remeron, lithium and klonopin, in order to really get my life in sync, get a good healthy regimen stabilized and then try to reduce again. I'm not working in a high stress environment any more so I'm hoping that my more peaceful lifestyle will prevent any relapses. I simply cannot handle stress, especially stupid unnecessary stress.
> >
> > I would most definitely ask your doctor for an anti-anxiety med. Klonopin works well for me because it doesn't space me out at all. I also take Ambien to sleep at night. Again, if you can go without it's always better so that you don't have to deal with yet another drug to wean off, however, most benzos would be much safer and more effective than the Tylenol PM you're relying on. You have to be concerned about kidney problems with Tylenol.
> >
> > Your comment about worrying about what might happen is a clear indication that you're suffering from worry and anxiety. In my experience, if this disorder (anxiety) is not first taken care of, the anxiety will break through the antidepressant and render the med ineffective. Many of us here on this board use ADs along with some kind of mood stabilizer and have been getting better results than with ADs alone. Good luck to you and keep in touch. - Barbara
Posted by oona on April 7, 2002, at 17:16:04
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft » oona, posted by BarbaraCat on March 29, 2002, at 1:14:41
Barbara,
Did I ever answere this?" When you say institutionalized from 15 to 17, do you mean agewise, or that many years?"
It was when I was 15 1/2 to 17 1/2. Almost 2 years.
I was just reviewing these old posts about Zoloft withdrawal and I see more questions than I do answers.
Do you know if the Wellbutrin 150 SR does the same stuff that the Zoloft does??? I am not very knowledeable about Seratonin etc. SO are WB and Zoloft both for Anti depression or anxiety?
It has been almost 3 weks off the zoloft and I am still having symptoms and don't know if it is zoloft withdrawal or getting used to the WB???
Has anyone ever sufferred damage from coming off the zoloft or are we all just doomed.I would love to get all the docs together and make them take some of this crap they give us and then take it from them cold turkey so they could experience all this and stop patronizing us when we ask about the withdrawal symptoms.
Just complaining, can't complain around the house anymore because my husband is getting tired of it and says I am always sick. Maybe I am always sick because of the meds??
Well, thanks for the support.
> Ah, yes I think I remember the 60's. I thank God for psychedelics as well because they introduced me to the possibility of a higher minded, more spirit oriented way of living. I've always kept those ideals. However, I also was self-medicating with way too much methadrine at that time, as well as anything else I could get my hands on. Oh well, those were the times I guess.
>
> I too was abused as a child and there are studies showing that the structure of the brain gets changed as a result of early trauma. But I think there's always hope and healing. I have to say now that I'm feeling so much better that all those experiences made me a much stronger and more compassionate person and I don't have too many regrets. I only hope that eventually I learn how to not worry so much when I'm having a bad episode. I want very much to learn trust in this lifetime. That's difficult when fear and trauma were constant companions as a child.
>
> I hope you do start a journal, at least. It sounds like your life was very 'interesting'. When you say institutionalized from 15 to 17, do you mean agewise, or that many years?
>
> If the Wellbutrin doesn't work, try not to be too discouraged. Ask the folks here on this board for advice, their experiences, anything you want to know. I've found the combined knowledge and experience here to be very powerful. All the best to you. - Barbara
>
> > Barbara,
> > Thanks for your reply. It has been a long time since I spoke with anyone regarding these problems. I will probably start seeing a psych doc or someone now that I have insurance again.
> >
> > I have had problems all my life, child abuse mentally, physically and sexually. Hospitalized in state hosp. from 15 years to 17, (the whole bit, isolation, drugged, straigt jackets, and some wierd drug I think is called paraldahyde or something like that. They used to inject you with it when you started acting out so it would knock you out and you woke up either in isolation or strapped down, depending on how bad you acted. After that period I was in and out of psych wards for awhile.
> >
> > Thank god for the sixties, I think the LSD liberated me from the melaril/thorazine/librium. Of course I had to step out of the sixties and after many lifetimes, 2 husbands, 3 children, here it is, 2002.
> >
> > If I was a writer, I would write a book about all of this but then who would be interested?? At least it would be therapeautic or cleansing.
> >
> > I guess looking back at all this, the zoloft did help for awhile and I am thankful for that. I remember about 6 months on Zoloft, I thought, wow this is what is like to be normal!
> >
> > So now onto the next step, Wellbutrin then hopefully, work into a health regime that will allow me to be drug free.
> >
> > thanks again....oona..
> >
> > > Dear Oona,
> > >
> > > I hear you, loud and clear. I especially relate to the part about 'what if we coudn't get our drugs if a war broke out, etc.'. I often think about that, but figure that in a situation like that, we'd do whatever it takes to get through. We'd never miss the meds because we'd be so busy handling life and before you know it, poof, we'd be clear of them. It's amazing what we can handle if pressed to the ground, depressed or not, if we're committed to staying among the living.
> > >
> > > I know about Youngliving and like their philosophy about using natural essences and oils therapeutically. I'm also very much interested in natural healing and have been studying one form or another for about 30 years - yoga, meditation, herbs, etc. I use alot of nutritional support and it helps, I've not yet found the perfect combination that will let me stop taking my medications.
> > >
> > > I haven't able to permanently call it quits with antidepressants and I've tried to taper off many times. In fact, I've been off them completely for 6-8 months at a time several times. I've always had to go back on them because I'd get blitzed out by the very severe stress I was experiencing in my life, money, jobs, so on and so forth. I'd start to unravel and lose it, crying constantly and becoming very fearful and sleepless. So I'd go back onto AD's and be very grateful for them. They've always helped and at this point I'm resigned to having to take them.
> > >
> > > IF anything happens and my supply runs out, I'll probably hole myself up somewhere and scream and gnash my teeth for a few months, hoping that the drug wears off and my neurotramitters get back to a normal state. I don't know anymore if I need the meds because I started them in the first place, or if my chemistry really needs them. My plan is to take my current regiment, Remeron, lithium and klonopin, in order to really get my life in sync, get a good healthy regimen stabilized and then try to reduce again. I'm not working in a high stress environment any more so I'm hoping that my more peaceful lifestyle will prevent any relapses. I simply cannot handle stress, especially stupid unnecessary stress.
> > >
> > > I would most definitely ask your doctor for an anti-anxiety med. Klonopin works well for me because it doesn't space me out at all. I also take Ambien to sleep at night. Again, if you can go without it's always better so that you don't have to deal with yet another drug to wean off, however, most benzos would be much safer and more effective than the Tylenol PM you're relying on. You have to be concerned about kidney problems with Tylenol.
> > >
> > > Your comment about worrying about what might happen is a clear indication that you're suffering from worry and anxiety. In my experience, if this disorder (anxiety) is not first taken care of, the anxiety will break through the antidepressant and render the med ineffective. Many of us here on this board use ADs along with some kind of mood stabilizer and have been getting better results than with ADs alone. Good luck to you and keep in touch. - Barbara
Posted by BarbaraCat on April 7, 2002, at 20:08:30
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft » BarbaraCat, posted by oona on April 7, 2002, at 17:16:04
Hi Oona, Good to hear from you. In answer to your questions:
> Do you know if the Wellbutrin 150 SR does the same stuff that the Zoloft does???
No, not really. Wellbutrin acts on a different mechanism/chemical in the brain - more dopamine and norepinephrine, which are activating, than serotonin, which is more sedating (or can be, but not always). In fact, there is the exact same drug as Wellbutrin called Zyban that's used to wean people off cigarettes, the theory being that the reward and pleasure centers in the brain are stimulated by the drug and that helps people kick the nicotine habit. I guess the same theory holds that these pleasure and reward centers will get activated long enough to kick a person out of the depths of depression and despair. It seems to work for some people. I didn't have much luck with it. It all depends on how you are wired and that drug didn't fix my bad wiring.
>I am not very knowledeable about Seratonin etc. SO are WB and Zoloft both for Anti depression or anxiety?
They are both antidepressants, but once the depression is under control the anxiety is usually minimized because your thinking is less black and white and more optimistic as the disease lessens it's hold. If the anxiety persists you probably need to discuss it with your doc and have a antianxiety med in addition. That's what I finally ended up with after many many years. I should have done that long ago since it's the mismanagement of my unusually stressful life that plunges me into overwhelm, despair and depression.
>
> It has been almost 3 weks off the zoloft and I am still having symptoms and don't know if it is zoloft withdrawal or getting used to the WB???Three weeks isn't very long, really, it isn't when you're coming off and starting another med. It can take a good 12 weeks until you feel fully stable, but generally start looking at 6 for noticeable improvement.
VERY IMPORTANT:
Are you getting sufficient sleep(7-9 hours)? Taking 50-100 mg daily of B vitamins? Calcium and magnesium (1000 mg)? (along with a good balanced women's multi-vitamin) 8-10 glasses of filtered water daily? 20-30 minutes of walking? Eating balanced wholesome meals? Had your thyoid checked? If you're not doing ALL of these things then no matter how many psychiatric meds you're taking, you're wasting your time and money.> Has anyone ever sufferred damage from coming off the zoloft or are we all just doomed.
There are some stories about people having backlashes of violence when they've abruptly stopped SSRI's, but I haven't heard of any permanent damage as far as singed receptors or anything like that. It's too soon to tell since these things haven't been around that long. One good piece of news thats come about just lately is that lithium, an old standard for manic depression, has been shown to actually grow new branches in the neurons of the brains - contributing to the brain's 'plasticity'. It's actually healthy for the brain and people have started taking it in small doses for it's neuro protective properties even though there's nothing wrong with them neurologically.
Some studies have said that some of these SSRI's show some promise in resetting part of the brain that gets stuck in fear, like healing a broken record that keeps playing the same old scary part over and over and smooths over the scratch so it can move on to other grooves in the record, so to speak. So I wouldn't worry too much about permanent damage. I believe that dwelling on something too much gives it more power than it should have and might even create a situation that might not have even existed, you know what it mean?
>
> Just complaining, can't complain around the house anymore because my husband is getting tired of it and says I am always sick. Maybe I am always sick because of the meds??
>
That could be. You are sick and there's no doubt about it. Depression is a whole body thing, not just the mind. Add the insult of the weirdness of the meds effects and, well, it's a challenge to any relationship. Unless he's felt as down in the dirt lower than a snake's belly full of misery then it's hard for anyone to imagine the kind of agony we go through day after day year after year. I'd strongly suggest finding another source to confide your worst feelings in. It's too much to expect your spouse to deal with. For one thing, most men feel real frustrated because they want to 'fix' it and when they can't they feel impotent and resentful towards you. Plus, it's really no fun to be around someone who is pointing out all the nasty evil depressing sides to life. Unfortunate but true. It's OK for our mates to see us weak and fearful and hopeless but those times MUST be balanced out by just as many if not more of the strong, capable, prideful things. It just works that way. I have truly found that getting myself to a place where I could drag myself into a pair of walking pants, shoes and shirt and then hoisting myself around the block and doing this a few times would perform a miracle by day 7, no matter how awful I felt. Well, keep coming back here. We've been where you're at and all care. - Barbara
>
>
> > Ah, yes I think I remember the 60's. I thank God for psychedelics as well because they introduced me to the possibility of a higher minded, more spirit oriented way of living. I've always kept those ideals. However, I also was self-medicating with way too much methadrine at that time, as well as anything else I could get my hands on. Oh well, those were the times I guess.
> >
> > I too was abused as a child and there are studies showing that the structure of the brain gets changed as a result of early trauma. But I think there's always hope and healing. I have to say now that I'm feeling so much better that all those experiences made me a much stronger and more compassionate person and I don't have too many regrets. I only hope that eventually I learn how to not worry so much when I'm having a bad episode. I want very much to learn trust in this lifetime. That's difficult when fear and trauma were constant companions as a child.
> >
> > I hope you do start a journal, at least. It sounds like your life was very 'interesting'. When you say institutionalized from 15 to 17, do you mean agewise, or that many years?
> >
> > If the Wellbutrin doesn't work, try not to be too discouraged. Ask the folks here on this board for advice, their experiences, anything you want to know. I've found the combined knowledge and experience here to be very powerful. All the best to you. - Barbara
> >
> > > Barbara,
> > > Thanks for your reply. It has been a long time since I spoke with anyone regarding these problems. I will probably start seeing a psych doc or someone now that I have insurance again.
> > >
> > > I have had problems all my life, child abuse mentally, physically and sexually. Hospitalized in state hosp. from 15 years to 17, (the whole bit, isolation, drugged, straigt jackets, and some wierd drug I think is called paraldahyde or something like that. They used to inject you with it when you started acting out so it would knock you out and you woke up either in isolation or strapped down, depending on how bad you acted. After that period I was in and out of psych wards for awhile.
> > >
> > > Thank god for the sixties, I think the LSD liberated me from the melaril/thorazine/librium. Of course I had to step out of the sixties and after many lifetimes, 2 husbands, 3 children, here it is, 2002.
> > >
> > > If I was a writer, I would write a book about all of this but then who would be interested?? At least it would be therapeautic or cleansing.
> > >
> > > I guess looking back at all this, the zoloft did help for awhile and I am thankful for that. I remember about 6 months on Zoloft, I thought, wow this is what is like to be normal!
> > >
> > > So now onto the next step, Wellbutrin then hopefully, work into a health regime that will allow me to be drug free.
> > >
> > > thanks again....oona..
> > >
> > > > Dear Oona,
> > > >
> > > > I hear you, loud and clear. I especially relate to the part about 'what if we coudn't get our drugs if a war broke out, etc.'. I often think about that, but figure that in a situation like that, we'd do whatever it takes to get through. We'd never miss the meds because we'd be so busy handling life and before you know it, poof, we'd be clear of them. It's amazing what we can handle if pressed to the ground, depressed or not, if we're committed to staying among the living.
> > > >
> > > > I know about Youngliving and like their philosophy about using natural essences and oils therapeutically. I'm also very much interested in natural healing and have been studying one form or another for about 30 years - yoga, meditation, herbs, etc. I use alot of nutritional support and it helps, I've not yet found the perfect combination that will let me stop taking my medications.
> > > >
> > > > I haven't able to permanently call it quits with antidepressants and I've tried to taper off many times. In fact, I've been off them completely for 6-8 months at a time several times. I've always had to go back on them because I'd get blitzed out by the very severe stress I was experiencing in my life, money, jobs, so on and so forth. I'd start to unravel and lose it, crying constantly and becoming very fearful and sleepless. So I'd go back onto AD's and be very grateful for them. They've always helped and at this point I'm resigned to having to take them.
> > > >
> > > > IF anything happens and my supply runs out, I'll probably hole myself up somewhere and scream and gnash my teeth for a few months, hoping that the drug wears off and my neurotramitters get back to a normal state. I don't know anymore if I need the meds because I started them in the first place, or if my chemistry really needs them. My plan is to take my current regiment, Remeron, lithium and klonopin, in order to really get my life in sync, get a good healthy regimen stabilized and then try to reduce again. I'm not working in a high stress environment any more so I'm hoping that my more peaceful lifestyle will prevent any relapses. I simply cannot handle stress, especially stupid unnecessary stress.
> > > >
> > > > I would most definitely ask your doctor for an anti-anxiety med. Klonopin works well for me because it doesn't space me out at all. I also take Ambien to sleep at night. Again, if you can go without it's always better so that you don't have to deal with yet another drug to wean off, however, most benzos would be much safer and more effective than the Tylenol PM you're relying on. You have to be concerned about kidney problems with Tylenol.
> > > >
> > > > Your comment about worrying about what might happen is a clear indication that you're suffering from worry and anxiety. In my experience, if this disorder (anxiety) is not first taken care of, the anxiety will break through the antidepressant and render the med ineffective. Many of us here on this board use ADs along with some kind of mood stabilizer and have been getting better results than with ADs alone. Good luck to you and keep in touch. - Barbara
Posted by oona on April 9, 2002, at 0:18:19
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft » oona, posted by BarbaraCat on April 7, 2002, at 20:08:30
Thanks Barbara for your info.
I see my med doc tommorow (or his nurse pract. if he is to busy) so I will ask about the anti-anxiety meds. Woke up with fever, body aches and muscle pain, so maybe really "sick". Or is this one of the side presents of new WB or Zoloft withdrawal.
I do exercise, drink lots of water, had my thyroid checked but have been lax lately with the vitamins.
Will probably see a nutritionist as I also have stomach problems that they can not identify (maybe IBS, maybe diverticuloses, also sensitive to some foods and also milk intolerant) This one is funny (peculiar) as my doc gave me a med for my stomach to ease the diarhea and cramping and the med had lactose in it so it made me gassy and sick. ( I will have to read the info on the meds they give you ) The doc had no idea, I wonder if they read the materials the drug salesmen leave with the free samples? Maybe the people on this board should get together and advise the docs on meds and get paid for it instead of giving them all this free information.
Ha ha.
Posted by BarbaraCat on April 9, 2002, at 1:22:43
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft » BarbaraCat, posted by oona on April 9, 2002, at 0:18:19
My personal feeling is that going to see a good naturopath is probably going to save a whole lot of time, money, and pain in the ass factor when it comes to diagnosing stuff like what you're describing. It could be something like gluten sensitivity or some other dietary thing. I don't think there's anything herbal or nutritional by itself that can handle a serious case of clinical depression. But when other things go wrong, most doctors don't seem to have the time to take the whole person into account and just pile on the pills to patch up the parts. Our poor livers are toxic waste sites so it's no wonder we don't feel so good. Well, good luck with your doc and I hope you check out that nurtritionist.
P.S. You have a point on your last comment. I wonder how many pdocs read this board? - BCat
Posted by oona on April 10, 2002, at 7:32:46
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft » oona, posted by BarbaraCat on April 9, 2002, at 1:22:43
I forgot to ask about anti anxiety drug at my docs yesterday, so I will ask next thursday. Have to go in again cuz my blood presssure was sky high. They think it is because of the WB as I also feel like I am speeding and my heart felt like it was pounding. She listened to my heart and it was fine? You mentioned coffee, does that affect the WB? I am only taking one cup today and will try to quit.
oona> My personal feeling is that going to see a good naturopath is probably going to save a whole lot of time, money, and pain in the ass factor when it comes to diagnosing stuff like what you're describing. It could be something like gluten sensitivity or some other dietary thing. I don't think there's anything herbal or nutritional by itself that can handle a serious case of clinical depression. But when other things go wrong, most doctors don't seem to have the time to take the whole person into account and just pile on the pills to patch up the parts. Our poor livers are toxic waste sites so it's no wonder we don't feel so good. Well, good luck with your doc and I hope you check out that nurtritionist.
>
> P.S. You have a point on your last comment. I wonder how many pdocs read this board? - BCat
Posted by BarbaraCat on April 10, 2002, at 11:50:40
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft » BarbaraCat, posted by oona on April 10, 2002, at 7:32:46
One cup a day doesn't sound like too much, but you know your body's limits on such things. If you're overweight, that can send your blood pressure up, as can anxiety. WB is also known to speed up bp. These are things you have to discuss with your doc. Doesn't sound like you had enough time at your visit.
> I forgot to ask about anti anxiety drug at my docs yesterday, so I will ask next thursday. Have to go in again cuz my blood presssure was sky high. They think it is because of the WB as I also feel like I am speeding and my heart felt like it was pounding. She listened to my heart and it was fine? You mentioned coffee, does that affect the WB? I am only taking one cup today and will try to quit.
> oona
>
> > My personal feeling is that going to see a good naturopath is probably going to save a whole lot of time, money, and pain in the ass factor when it comes to diagnosing stuff like what you're describing. It could be something like gluten sensitivity or some other dietary thing. I don't think there's anything herbal or nutritional by itself that can handle a serious case of clinical depression. But when other things go wrong, most doctors don't seem to have the time to take the whole person into account and just pile on the pills to patch up the parts. Our poor livers are toxic waste sites so it's no wonder we don't feel so good. Well, good luck with your doc and I hope you check out that nurtritionist.
> >
> > P.S. You have a point on your last comment. I wonder how many pdocs read this board? - BCat
Posted by oona on April 12, 2002, at 22:56:53
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by BarbaraCat on April 10, 2002, at 11:50:40
It was the WB that gave me the high reading on my blood presure - combine that with Starbucks, a high stress day at work and arguing with your sig other because you are irritable behind the WB.
A good perscription for heart disease or stroke.... I am not sure why i can not follow a healthy regime when I know what is good for me and what is not. I guess it is a matter of focus and determination. I did change taking the WB in the evening instead of the morning so I won't be so jacked up at work, that did seem to help for the day, but not for the night. Have been geeting at least five hours of direct sleep and maybe another hour or so of broken sleep, so that is pretty good for me.
I am wondering if I can take the WB SR150 every other day since it is sustained release and I am so sensitive to meds. Or maybe taking the plain 100's once a day might be better. I will check with my doc on that and the other meds when I go on Thursday. I will have to remember to take a list this time since this WB seems to give you Alzhiemers.
How long have you been on Lithium? They gave it to me for a while when I was diagnosed as bi-polar but then they were not sure. I stopped taking it because I was in my born again stage and was talked into relying on the lord instead of the meds. One drug for another, worked too until I dropped out from being born again and decided to try life again...
Now that I have been full circle, I would really like to see what it is like to be off drugs. I hope I could handle it and find ways to deal with life. Of course the deep depresions are scary and since this is supposed to be physiological and maybe not completely psycho - I am not sure if I am ready to do it yet. What did humans do in the old days, Got drunk or got obsessive. My mom is 84 and if she does not stay on her Thyroid meds she really gets manic, thank god we fould a good nursing home as she would not live with any of us and frankly, we probably could not live with her. At least in the home they keep her on her thyroid meds and monitor her there. She is the happiest that I have seen her, ever.
Sorry this is so long but I tend to ramble when I am blowing off steam.... or is ramblin' another side effect of somthin'
oona
Posted by BarbaraCat on April 15, 2002, at 21:41:45
In reply to Coming off zoloft-going onto WB » BarbaraCat, posted by oona on April 12, 2002, at 22:56:53
Hi Oona,
You asked about how long I've been on Lithium. Since the beginning of February and I wish I'd started years ago. After all these 25 or so years of thinking I was unipolar depressed and being treated as such, it's fairly evident now that I have all the symptoms of bipolar II. I stop responding to antidepressants after a while and increasing them makes me more depressed, I have mixed depression with anxiety, have had hypomanic phases where I spent money like I'd won the lottery (oh, if only I had a fraction of that money now!) and other tell-tale symptoms like starting grandiose schemes, not sleeping, zipping around and then - booom, crash! I also tried relying on God but the miracle cure has not yet been granted to me. I have a suspicion that God is either depressed him/herself or just sick of the whole lot of us. However, praying is still a great comfort to me. I just don't need a bunch of, ummm, fanatically inclined folk to tell me how to do it.You also said that you think it could be mainly biological and not just psycho. Couldn't agree with you more. Although many of us, myself included, have had more than our share of traumatic childhoods or other incidents, I've come to believe that there's a basic malfunctioning going in our bio/chemical/electrical system. The methods we have right now at our disposal, like drugs and ECT are pretty crude, but it's not that long ago that doctors were applying leaches.
I'm curious, Oona, why has your doctor settled on Wellbutrin? You probably mentioned it a while back, but if you could refresh my memory? I tried it a while back and it wasn't the drug for me - made me feel too wired and didn't do much to relieve the depression. For me, and quite a few of us here on this board, adding mood stabilisers has really done the trick. I've heard some good reports about others as well, like Lamactil, but so far the Lithium has been good for me.
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