![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 45. Go back in thread:
Posted by petey on January 22, 2002, at 5:37:21
In reply to Re: I've been scared into quitting!, posted by christophrejmc on January 21, 2002, at 23:59:47
> it seems you've gotten this article from "http://benzo.org.uk". Have you taken a look at the rest of this site? Most of their benzo claims range from absurd to disturbing.. They also include anti-Antidepressant propaganda (in addition to some other equally disgusting misinformation that I won't include). They compare benzo's to heroin... < insert some not-so-civil comments here >
>
> -ChristophreBenzo org.uk may claim some pretty disturbing stuff, but I wouldn't say it is absurd at all. Maybe this site came into exsistance because of people like me. I am living proof that benzos are not for everybody and that the withdrawal from them can be hell. I am not saying that they "caused" my depression, but they definatley made it worse! I also have had VERY negative experiences with every antidepreeant I have ever taken. Since I have been off all meds., I am feeling better, but I don't feel "myself". I think ,for some people, that theses drugs can do real harm. I have said time and time again that I know these meds. help millions of people but there are SOME who experience negative responses and horrible withdrawal. I am one of them. So I wouldn't be so quick to condemn Benzo.org uk. It just may save someones life! I didn't know what the hell was going on with me until I found that site and this site. I thought that I just was going out of my mind! Then I started reading all the info. I could get my hands on and found so many side-effects and negative reactions to these drugs and slowly started weaning myself from the "culprits". Lo and behold, after some very intense withdrawal, I started to feel better. i am not saying this is the case for everybody, but IT DOES HAPPEN! I just had to be one of the unfortunate ones! Benzos have helped so many people I know, so don't think I'm "bashing" them. I just want to warn people that they CAN cause bad and rare reactions. Sorry if I offended anyone, but these are the facts!Take care and God bless!
Petey
Posted by Thrud on January 22, 2002, at 6:46:55
In reply to I've been scared into quitting!, posted by mr.scott on January 21, 2002, at 15:11:38
>
> currently take .25mg of Klonopin a day. And am stopping now and forever.
>Since my panic attacks are never ending unless treated, I have no intention of ever going off my Xanax, so stories of benzo withdrawl never interest me.
If I ever feel well enough to consider cutting the dose then that will be a blessed miracle.
Thrud
Posted by bob on January 22, 2002, at 13:55:23
In reply to Re: I've been scared into quitting!, posted by petey on January 22, 2002, at 5:37:21
Petey:
I have to agree with you. There is nothing wrong with benzos or ADs for many, many people. However, there are people out there like you and I who have problems with the drugs. I am extremely intolerant of most ADs... they make my life a physical hell. Ironically, though, I've found it impossible to live without them. Benzos on the other hand, aren't bad at all to take for me, but I do get many of the withdrawal symptoms that are described in the UK site (when I try to reduce the med), and the article that was posted from that Australian Journal. Those publishings may be somewhat alarmist, but that doesn't mean that there is truth in some of the things they say.
Posted by bob on January 22, 2002, at 15:09:23
In reply to Re: I've been scared into quitting! » petey, posted by bob on January 22, 2002, at 13:55:23
Correction from my last post:
"Those publishings may be somewhat alarmist, but that doesn't mean that there is truth in some of the things they say."
...should read...
"Those publications may be somewhat alarmist, but that doesn't mean that there is *no* truth in some of the things they say."
Posted by Mr. Scott on January 22, 2002, at 23:16:19
In reply to Re: I've been scared into quitting!, posted by jimmygold70 on January 21, 2002, at 23:43:26
Right now Effexor 75, Klonopin .25 PRN and I also take adrafanil without any worsening of anxiety.
Often a wreck!Scott
Posted by Mr. Scott on January 22, 2002, at 23:33:08
In reply to Re: I've been scared into quitting!, posted by christophrejmc on January 21, 2002, at 23:59:47
ignore previous typo post..
You are quite perceptive as to where I found my anxiety producing article! I didn't realize that group had a mission against benzos.
Scott
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by IsoM on January 23, 2002, at 0:09:11
In reply to Re: I've been scared into quitting! » jimmygold70, posted by Mr. Scott on January 22, 2002, at 23:16:19
Scott, I hope you don't mind me asking. If you do, just ignore my question.
But I'm curious how long you've taken adrafinil & what sort of effect you notice. I think you already know how much I like it but would really like to find more people who've taken it & what their reactions to it are. I can't assume that everyone will react like I do to it.>
> Right now Effexor 75, Klonopin .25 PRN and I also take adrafanil without any worsening of anxiety.
> Scott
Posted by Elizabeth on January 23, 2002, at 14:59:10
In reply to I've been scared into quitting!, posted by mr.scott on January 21, 2002, at 15:11:38
I don't get it. Why stop your (incredibly low, BTW) dose of clonazepam based on the risk of withdrawal symptoms (which are unlikely if you maintain the same dose, which most people are able to do)?
You knew the risk of dependence when you started taking it, didn't you? There are other medications, such as clonidine, propranolol, and prednisone, that must not be discontinued abruptly. Would you stop taking one of these at a low dose if you read something on the internet about the potential withdrawal reactions?
I hope you're going to be okay. BTW, British doctors and researchers seem to be *much* more conservative about benzos (i.e., benzophobic) than most others (I noticed that the site you got that stuff from is a UK site). It also appears that this site makes some generalizations and twists around the facts. It is important that people who need benzos not be scared away by hysteria on sites like this. As you've seen, this sort of hysteria is usually much more dangerous than the actual effects of the drugs are for most people!
best wishes,
-elizabeth
Posted by Mr. Scott on January 23, 2002, at 21:04:34
In reply to Question About Your Meds » Mr. Scott, posted by IsoM on January 23, 2002, at 0:09:11
I ordered it a long time ago, but only started taking it two weeks ago. I like it a lot, but ran out and had to get a Rx for Provigil while the Adrafanil is en route (start the Provigil tomorrow). The Provigil cost me $290.00 for 60 pills!!! What a frickin rip off! The adrafanil basically makes me wake up a bit and become less depressed and more enthusiastic about life, without the stimulant crash later on or tolerance (that I've noticed so far anyways). I feel a little more like everyone else looks (i know thats not helpful). I guess it sharpens the colors while the Effexor removes the horror.
Best I can put it right now. I think it might make my mouth dry though.
Scott
Posted by Mr. Scott on January 23, 2002, at 23:18:49
In reply to Re: I've been scared into quitting! » mr.scott, posted by Elizabeth on January 23, 2002, at 14:59:10
> "I don't get it. Why stop your (incredibly low, BTW) dose of clonazepam based on the risk of withdrawal symptoms (which are unlikely if you maintain the same dose, which most people are able to do)?
>
> You knew the risk of dependence when you started taking it, didn't you? There are other medications, such as clonidine, propranolol, and prednisone, that must not be discontinued abruptly. Would you stop taking one of these at a low dose if you read something on the internet about the potential withdrawal reactions?"
>
I would like some confirmation of my diagnosis before I proceed with the first thing that works. All the 'brilliant docs' disagree. I have seen many all with different and colorful theories. And since I have about a one in two chance of either being cured by pills or getting royally screwed by them, I want to know If I have an anxiety disorder or BP II before I make such a long term investment. No two shrinks can agree on what in the hell I have, And before I settle on the benzo's which I know will bring me sweet and immediate relief (like they do most everyone), I want to see if any of the other more currently en vogue and accepted modern and cool diagnoses fit and I can get away with taking a pill that isn't regulated, critiscized, and controversial! Not to mention one that somewhat dulls my cognitive abilities.Now granted my reasoning may be shallow, stupid, and even self-inflictual, but you did ask.
As always I look forward to your feedback.
Scott
Posted by IsoM on January 24, 2002, at 1:31:50
In reply to Re: Question About Your Meds » IsoM, posted by Mr. Scott on January 23, 2002, at 21:04:34
If you'd only been on it for 2 weeks & felt better then you'll probably feel even better after a couple more weeks. Glad to hear of it. Yes, Provigil's price is a killer - that's why I stick to adrafinil.
So, you never had any unpleasant side-effects at all beside dry mouth? I can't be certain if adrafinil contributes to my dry mouth as ADs tend to do that for me.
>
>
> I ordered it a long time ago, but only started taking it two weeks ago. I like it a lot, but ran out and had to get a Rx for Provigil while the Adrafanil is en route (start the Provigil tomorrow). The Provigil cost me $290.00 for 60 pills!!! What a frickin rip off! The adrafanil basically makes me wake up a bit and become less depressed and more enthusiastic about life, without the stimulant crash later on or tolerance (that I've noticed so far anyways). I feel a little more like everyone else looks (i know thats not helpful). I guess it sharpens the colors while the Effexor removes the horror.
>
> Best I can put it right now. I think it might make my mouth dry though.
>
> Scott
Posted by mr.scott on January 24, 2002, at 18:08:02
In reply to Long-term Effects of Adrafinil » Mr. Scott, posted by IsoM on January 24, 2002, at 1:31:50
No other side effects I can think of...What did you have in mind?
Posted by IsoM on January 24, 2002, at 18:25:57
In reply to Re: Long-term Effects of Adrafinil » IsoM, posted by mr.scott on January 24, 2002, at 18:08:02
One son who just started it said he has a constant headache & upset stomach. He gets a sick stomach at the drop of a hat so I don't know whether it's from adrafinil or not. He's very anti-medication anyway. Thinks we should just tough it out but I hate to see feel the way he does.
He was absolutely the happiest baby & child I'd ever seen, always laughing & so cheerful, but it's like a black cloud over him now. No motivation, no drive, bleak, barren outlook & these 2 'side-effects' are making him resistant to continue. I'm not going to shove it down his throat but wanted him to give it a fair trial. I wanted to know if others felt like that & if they did how long it lasted.
> No other side effects I can think of...What did you have in mind?
Posted by Mr. Scott on January 25, 2002, at 20:41:57
In reply to Re: Long-term Effects of Adrafinil » mr.scott, posted by IsoM on January 24, 2002, at 18:25:57
Actually now that you mention it I did get a headache at first, but only in combination with Zoloft or Prozac.. Thats why I stopped a while back. No problem with Effexor?
I hope the best for your son.
Scott
Posted by IsoM on January 25, 2002, at 21:19:43
In reply to Re: Long-term Effects of Adrafinil » IsoM, posted by Mr. Scott on January 25, 2002, at 20:41:57
Posted by 2sense on April 7, 2002, at 17:53:13
In reply to Re: I've been scared into quitting! » mr.scott, posted by JohnX2 on January 21, 2002, at 15:28:08
I started on Klonopin/Clonazepam .5 - 1.0 mg 1 1/2 years ago because I was unable to sleep. I take Wellbutrin (150 SR -- 2X a day -- I have Hashimoto's which causes hypothyroidism so I also take Synthroid -- for the depression that comes when the antibodies from the Hashimoto's kick up and it cuts my smoking to nearly nothing. I also have AD/HD and take Ritalin (a life saver). My doctor who I had seen for 6 years moved and a new one took over and during a 4 month period I went from 0.5 - 1.0 of the Klonipin to 4.0 (just at bedtime). This doctor became very ill and someone else (another pyschiatrist) took over and decided because my one brother may be bipolar and I have a thyroid disorder then I must be bipolar also. I wanted to go off (slowly) the Klonipin BUT a) the doctor had no appointments because they are short on doctors so our discussions where over the phone and short; b) he simply believes this and there is no changing his mind because I talk fast (I grew up in NJ and am currently in W. PA). When I worked in CO and CA I learned to slow my processing and talking so that others who were 'mellow' could keep up -- when I taught at MIT I didn't have to adjust anything for anyone they all kept up fine. I have no other symptoms and have been evaluated by other psychiatrists having worked for the government and it was part of intake -- so my family got the flu and I didn't refill the script (meaning I called a day or two late and the doctor didn't call it in a day or two after that) -- I had a grand mal seizure on Good Friday. Someone said they could take it or leave it (a posting from 07/04/01 or there abouts) -- be very careful with regard to w/drawl of anti-convulsants that are benzos -- my doctor (not one of them) ever told me that this could happen. Ultimately given how much I research having had some less than pleasant experiences (not everyone is an "A" student and/or doctor) I have a bunch of medical books, etc. Interestingly he PDR doesn't state the danger of sudden withdrawl (and it should) what it does, is tell the reader to see anticonvulsants (a section with other groups of meds, antianemic meds for instance) and it is there they are very, very clear about the danger in sudden withdrawal. I am seeing an excellent therapist and if I leave the practice then I leave her too -- hence my delima. Any ideas? Sorry so long it is my first posting. (To dot the i's and cross the t's I am having an EEG tomorrow AM and a brain MRI with contrast on Tuesday -- this was order not by the pyschiatrist but by my internist who thinks I should get out while I am still able to ... well I am sure you get the picture. Thanks for any and all who made it through this "brain dump". :-)
Posted by JohnX2 on April 7, 2002, at 20:51:05
In reply to Re: I've been scared into quitting!, posted by 2sense on April 7, 2002, at 17:53:13
> I started on Klonopin/Clonazepam .5 - 1.0 mg 1 1/2 years ago because I was unable to sleep. I take Wellbutrin (150 SR -- 2X a day -- I have Hashimoto's which causes hypothyroidism so I also take Synthroid -- for the depression that comes when the antibodies from the Hashimoto's kick up and it cuts my smoking to nearly nothing. I also have AD/HD and take Ritalin (a life saver). My doctor who I had seen for 6 years moved and a new one took over and during a 4 month period I went from 0.5 - 1.0 of the Klonipin to 4.0 (just at bedtime). This doctor became very ill and someone else (another pyschiatrist) took over and decided because my one brother may be bipolar and I have a thyroid disorder then I must be bipolar also. I wanted to go off (slowly) the Klonipin BUT a) the doctor had no appointments because they are short on doctors so our discussions where over the phone and short; b) he simply believes this and there is no changing his mind because I talk fast (I grew up in NJ and am currently in W. PA). When I worked in CO and CA I learned to slow my processing and talking so that others who were 'mellow' could keep up -- when I taught at MIT I didn't have to adjust anything for anyone they all kept up fine. I have no other symptoms and have been evaluated by other psychiatrists having worked for the government and it was part of intake -- so my family got the flu and I didn't refill the script (meaning I called a day or two late and the doctor didn't call it in a day or two after that) -- I had a grand mal seizure on Good Friday. Someone said they could take it or leave it (a posting from 07/04/01 or there abouts) -- be very careful with regard to w/drawl of anti-convulsants that are benzos -- my doctor (not one of them) ever told me that this could happen. Ultimately given how much I research having had some less than pleasant experiences (not everyone is an "A" student and/or doctor) I have a bunch of medical books, etc. Interestingly he PDR doesn't state the danger of sudden withdrawl (and it should) what it does, is tell the reader to see anticonvulsants (a section with other groups of meds, antianemic meds for instance) and it is there they are very, very clear about the danger in sudden withdrawal. I am seeing an excellent therapist and if I leave the practice then I leave her too -- hence my delima. Any ideas? Sorry so long it is my first posting. (To dot the i's and cross the t's I am having an EEG tomorrow AM and a brain MRI with contrast on Tuesday -- this was order not by the pyschiatrist but by my internist who thinks I should get out while I am still able to ... well I am sure you get the picture. Thanks for any and all who made it through this "brain dump". :-)
Take this with a grain of salt... Its my understanding that people with seizure disorders develop tolerance to Klonopin's antiseizure activity much quicker than people with anxiety disorder develop tolerance to the anti-anxiety effects. The medicine was looked into to treat seizures, but dropped due to the tolerance issue.
Some people feel that bipolar disorder is a form of a seizure disorder..I found that the medicine Topamax, which is a non-habit forming antiseizure medicine that also works on the same Gaba receptors as Klonopin, was a very effective medicine to substitute for Klonopin (for my symptoms).
Best wishes with your testing.
Regards,
John
Posted by 2sense on April 8, 2002, at 11:40:06
In reply to Re: I've been scared into quitting! » 2sense, posted by JohnX2 on April 7, 2002, at 20:51:05
John --
Thanks for answering so quickly. I am not certain I fully understood whether you think that I have a seizure disorder and therefore had the grand mal due to the tolerance issue or not. Can you clarify for me?
EVERYTHING and EVERY medical professional except this psychiatrist who wrote the script, and also believes that bipolar is a type of seizure or whatever, believes unequivocally that the rapid withdrawal from 4 mg. of Klonopin to 0 mg. PLUS my becoming lax with making sure my Wellbutrin doses (2 150 SR's a day) are a minimum of 6 hours apart (if not this lowers seizure tolerance), plus my 3 kids and husband had the flu and I wasn't sleeping well (and the night before the grand mal I didn't sleep a single wink) -- collectively along with an electrical re-entry anode heart problem needing to be fixed and I had a hysterectomy (TAH) and had been hemorrhaging since last May and my electrolytes were whacked out, plus I am anemic, plus my blood sugar was low. Still another's interpretation and input is always of interest to me. The EEG went fine but will not know the results until end of the week; MRI (w/ contrast) is tomorrow at 11 AM and will not know those results either until?? Even though I own 'The Pill Book' and the Nurses PDR manual and the slip from the pharmacist states not to withdraw suddenly because grand mal seizures can result -- I think it was negligent of the psychiatrist not to state so very clearly to me. I think he is juggling too many balls and it is my own humble opinion that mistakes can be made when one does not recognize and rectify situations that indicate they are overbooked, so to speak; it is still just my opinion!
As to the other medication you mentioned, Topiramate -- do you take this for seizures, bipolar, anxiety? I did a search on this medication (and the Depakote he is pushing also) and along with some pretty scary side effects (ex. grand mal seizures) -- the internet search comes up with attorneys who are taking cases of people who use the drug and have developed other health problems, some fatal. All drugs have side effects and at least to me, it is both a very pharmaceutical and litigious world we know live in.
My biggest issue is I do not believe I am bipolar, and since I have atypical anorexia (in times of mega stress I don't eat very well -- but dealing with this in therapy and it has been effective) I am a searcher, a reader, a learner -- I don't believe every problem one has can be given a label and a pill to fix. Now there are other "problems" <-- I don't like using that term -- issues; I had AD/HD and Ritalin not only stabilized my weight but made a great difference for me in many ways. It was not until I was in my early 30's that I even knew about it; it is very genetic (we are an entire family of it -- my immediate and both sides -- his and mine --> it isn't all bad; like anything there is good and bad). Thanks for reading, I type very fast and being a stay at home mom for 6 1/2 years has proved to be the most difficult and stressful time of my life. Just my ... 2sense :-)
PS I found this web page on the Topiramate – (http://www.nursespdr.com/members/database/ndrhtml/topiramate.html). I am including it ONLY for the 'FYI category' – obviously side effects are VERY individual, and the Nurse’s PDR, I suspect, lists everyone under the sun that anyone, anywhere has EVER experienced even a single time.
Posted by JohnX2 on April 8, 2002, at 17:04:44
In reply to Re: I've been scared into quitting! » JohnX2, posted by 2sense on April 8, 2002, at 11:40:06
> John --
>
> Thanks for answering so quickly. I am not certain I fully understood whether you think that I have a seizure disorder and therefore had the grand mal due to the tolerance issue or not. Can you clarify for me?
>
> EVERYTHING and EVERY medical professional except this psychiatrist who wrote the script, and also believes that bipolar is a type of seizure or whatever, believes unequivocally that the rapid withdrawal from 4 mg. of Klonopin to 0 mg. PLUS my becoming lax with making sure my Wellbutrin doses (2 150 SR's a day) are a minimum of 6 hours apart (if not this lowers seizure tolerance), plus my 3 kids and husband had the flu and I wasn't sleeping well (and the night before the grand mal I didn't sleep a single wink) -- collectively along with an electrical re-entry anode heart problem needing to be fixed and I had a hysterectomy (TAH) and had been hemorrhaging since last May and my electrolytes were whacked out, plus I am anemic, plus my blood sugar was low. Still another's interpretation and input is always of interest to me. The EEG went fine but will not know the results until end of the week; MRI (w/ contrast) is tomorrow at 11 AM and will not know those results either until?? Even though I own 'The Pill Book' and the Nurses PDR manual and the slip from the pharmacist states not to withdraw suddenly because grand mal seizures can result -- I think it was negligent of the psychiatrist not to state so very clearly to me. I think he is juggling too many balls and it is my own humble opinion that mistakes can be made when one does not recognize and rectify situations that indicate they are overbooked, so to speak; it is still just my opinion!
>I think it is *very bad* for anyone to abuptly stop taking a strong dose of a benzodizepine.
> As to the other medication you mentioned, Topiramate -- do you take this for seizures, bipolar, anxiety? I did a search on this medication (and the Depakote he is pushing also) and along with some pretty scary side effects (ex. grand mal seizures) -- the internet search comes up with attorneys who are taking cases of people who use the drug and have developed other health problems, some fatal. All drugs have side effects and at least to me, it is both a very pharmaceutical and litigious world we know live in.
>This is what I would do in term of looking at side effects. Find the PDR that did the actual clinical studies and look at the incidence of side effects compared to those who took a placebo. If the placebo caused 20% of the patients to have headaches, and the medicine caused 20% of the patients to have headaches, then the medicine probably doesn't cause headaches. Regardless of what medicatin you are looking at , whatever it is treating, it is going to be reported as a side effect, correct? What if I have epilepsy and Depakote doesn't work for me and I have a seizure, do I report that depakote has a seizure side effect? Every antidepressant will list depression as a side effect too. This is where looking for *statistical significance* is important. The placebo will also have seizure as a side effect. So usually in the actual physicians PDR they list side effects that were much more common than those listed on the placebo pill. These are the ones to look out for. If the medicine did not cause a side effect more often than the placebo pill, then probably the medicine was not the culprit. And yes, topamax has a reputation for causing cognitive decline.
> My biggest issue is I do not believe I am bipolar, and since I have atypical anorexia (in times of mega stress I don't eat very well -- but dealing with this in therapy and it has been effective) I am a searcher, a reader, a learner -- I don't believe every problem one has can be given a label and a pill to fix. Now there are other "problems" <-- I don't like using that term -- issues; I had AD/HD and Ritalin not only stabilized my weight but made a great difference for me in many ways. It was not until I was in my early 30's that I even knew about it; it is very genetic (we are an entire family of it -- my immediate and both sides -- his and mine --> it isn't all bad; like anything there is good and bad). Thanks for reading, I type very fast and being a stay at home mom for 6 1/2 years has proved to be the most difficult and stressful time of my life. Just my ... 2sense :-)
>FYI, Topamax may not be good for anorexia. It kills the apetite pretty bad.
Take care,
John> PS I found this web page on the Topiramate – (http://www.nursespdr.com/members/database/ndrhtml/topiramate.html). I am including it ONLY for the 'FYI category' – obviously side effects are VERY individual, and the Nurse’s PDR, I suspect, lists everyone under the sun that anyone, anywhere has EVER experienced even a single time.
Posted by JohnX2 on April 8, 2002, at 17:24:41
In reply to Re: I've been scared into quitting! » 2sense, posted by JohnX2 on April 8, 2002, at 17:04:44
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic2/topiram_ad.htmLook under "side effects drug interactions"
John
> > John --
> >
> > Thanks for answering so quickly. I am not certain I fully understood whether you think that I have a seizure disorder and therefore had the grand mal due to the tolerance issue or not. Can you clarify for me?
> >
> > EVERYTHING and EVERY medical professional except this psychiatrist who wrote the script, and also believes that bipolar is a type of seizure or whatever, believes unequivocally that the rapid withdrawal from 4 mg. of Klonopin to 0 mg. PLUS my becoming lax with making sure my Wellbutrin doses (2 150 SR's a day) are a minimum of 6 hours apart (if not this lowers seizure tolerance), plus my 3 kids and husband had the flu and I wasn't sleeping well (and the night before the grand mal I didn't sleep a single wink) -- collectively along with an electrical re-entry anode heart problem needing to be fixed and I had a hysterectomy (TAH) and had been hemorrhaging since last May and my electrolytes were whacked out, plus I am anemic, plus my blood sugar was low. Still another's interpretation and input is always of interest to me. The EEG went fine but will not know the results until end of the week; MRI (w/ contrast) is tomorrow at 11 AM and will not know those results either until?? Even though I own 'The Pill Book' and the Nurses PDR manual and the slip from the pharmacist states not to withdraw suddenly because grand mal seizures can result -- I think it was negligent of the psychiatrist not to state so very clearly to me. I think he is juggling too many balls and it is my own humble opinion that mistakes can be made when one does not recognize and rectify situations that indicate they are overbooked, so to speak; it is still just my opinion!
> >
>
> I think it is *very bad* for anyone to abuptly stop taking a strong dose of a benzodizepine.
>
> > As to the other medication you mentioned, Topiramate -- do you take this for seizures, bipolar, anxiety? I did a search on this medication (and the Depakote he is pushing also) and along with some pretty scary side effects (ex. grand mal seizures) -- the internet search comes up with attorneys who are taking cases of people who use the drug and have developed other health problems, some fatal. All drugs have side effects and at least to me, it is both a very pharmaceutical and litigious world we know live in.
> >
>
> This is what I would do in term of looking at side effects. Find the PDR that did the actual clinical studies and look at the incidence of side effects compared to those who took a placebo. If the placebo caused 20% of the patients to have headaches, and the medicine caused 20% of the patients to have headaches, then the medicine probably doesn't cause headaches. Regardless of what medicatin you are looking at , whatever it is treating, it is going to be reported as a side effect, correct? What if I have epilepsy and Depakote doesn't work for me and I have a seizure, do I report that depakote has a seizure side effect? Every antidepressant will list depression as a side effect too. This is where looking for *statistical significance* is important. The placebo will also have seizure as a side effect. So usually in the actual physicians PDR they list side effects that were much more common than those listed on the placebo pill. These are the ones to look out for. If the medicine did not cause a side effect more often than the placebo pill, then probably the medicine was not the culprit. And yes, topamax has a reputation for causing cognitive decline.
>
>
> > My biggest issue is I do not believe I am bipolar, and since I have atypical anorexia (in times of mega stress I don't eat very well -- but dealing with this in therapy and it has been effective) I am a searcher, a reader, a learner -- I don't believe every problem one has can be given a label and a pill to fix. Now there are other "problems" <-- I don't like using that term -- issues; I had AD/HD and Ritalin not only stabilized my weight but made a great difference for me in many ways. It was not until I was in my early 30's that I even knew about it; it is very genetic (we are an entire family of it -- my immediate and both sides -- his and mine --> it isn't all bad; like anything there is good and bad). Thanks for reading, I type very fast and being a stay at home mom for 6 1/2 years has proved to be the most difficult and stressful time of my life. Just my ... 2sense :-)
> >
>
> FYI, Topamax may not be good for anorexia. It kills the apetite pretty bad.
>
>
> Take care,
> John
>
> > PS I found this web page on the Topiramate – (http://www.nursespdr.com/members/database/ndrhtml/topiramate.html). I am including it ONLY for the 'FYI category' – obviously side effects are VERY individual, and the Nurse’s PDR, I suspect, lists everyone under the sun that anyone, anywhere has EVER experienced even a single time.
Posted by 2sense on April 8, 2002, at 17:48:49
In reply to Re: I've been scared into quitting! » 2sense, posted by JohnX2 on April 8, 2002, at 17:04:44
John
I didn't think it possible, and my apologies to other posters I have not yet read (I have been reading for two (2) years but just started posting recently) -- but I have finally found someone who researches thoroughly, exhaustively, and without question intellectually "facts" put in evidence.
I am relieved to hear that you are saying this about the other drug, though I do not know that I will need it. I need to get through these tests, the electrophysiology tests, the ablation, and I think find another doctor. I am glad you and others are around to interact with.
Just my 2sense
Posted by JohnX2 on April 8, 2002, at 18:12:40
In reply to Re: I've been scared into quitting! » JohnX2, posted by 2sense on April 8, 2002, at 11:40:06
> As to the other medication you mentioned, Topiramate -- do you take this for seizures, bipolar, anxiety? >
I take topamax to help with bipolar II, and mainly to treat a facial neuralgia (tension headaches, weird pains around my face/head).
> My biggest issue is I do not believe I am bipolar, and since I have atypical anorexia (in times of mega stress I don't eat very well -- but dealing with this in therapy and it has been effective) I am a searcher, a reader, a learner -- I don't believe every problem one has can be given a label and a pill to fix. Now there are other "problems" <-- I don't like using that term -- issues; I had AD/HD and Ritalin not only stabilized my weight but made a great difference for me in many ways. It was not until I was in my early 30's that I even knew about it; it is very genetic (we are an entire family of it -- my immediate and both sides -- his and mine --> it isn't all bad; like anything there is good and bad). Thanks for reading, I type very fast and being a stay at home mom for 6 1/2 years has proved to be the most difficult and stressful time of my life. Just my ... 2sense :-)
>Personally, I don't like labels (bipolar, whatever). There are certain classes of medicines that do certain things. Membrane stabilizers such as Lamictal and Depakote are good for many things (seizures, bipolar, migraine). I may not have text book symptoms of bipolar, but since I have other problems that can use membrane stabilizers, I feel that there is a likelihood that they will help my mood issue too.
John
Posted by Zo on April 8, 2002, at 21:37:58
In reply to Re: I've been scared into quitting! » 2sense, posted by JohnX2 on April 8, 2002, at 18:12:40
Posted by JohnX2 on April 10, 2002, at 19:55:27
In reply to Re: I've been scared into quitting!, posted by 2sense on April 7, 2002, at 17:53:13
> I started on Klonopin/Clonazepam .5 - 1.0 mg 1 1/2 years ago because I was unable to sleep. I take Wellbutrin (150 SR -- 2X a day -- I have Hashimoto's which causes hypothyroidism so I also take Synthroid -- for the depression that comes when the antibodies from the Hashimoto's kick up and it cuts my smoking to nearly nothing. I also have AD/HD and take Ritalin (a life saver). My doctor who I had seen for 6 years moved and a new one took over and during a 4 month period I went from 0.5 - 1.0 of the Klonipin to 4.0 (just at bedtime). This doctor became very ill and someone else (another pyschiatrist) took over and decided because my one brother may be bipolar and I have a thyroid disorder then I must be bipolar also. I wanted to go off (slowly) the Klonipin BUT a) the doctor had no appointments because they are short on doctors so our discussions where over the phone and short; b) he simply believes this and there is no changing his mind because I talk fast (I grew up in NJ and am currently in W. PA). When I worked in CO and CA I learned to slow my processing and talking so that others who were 'mellow' could keep up -- when I taught at MIT I didn't have to adjust anything for anyone they all kept up fine. I have no other symptoms and have been evaluated by other psychiatrists having worked for the government and it was part of intake -- so my family got the flu and I didn't refill the script (meaning I called a day or two late and the doctor didn't call it in a day or two after that) -- I had a grand mal seizure on Good Friday. Someone said they could take it or leave it (a posting from 07/04/01 or there abouts) -- be very careful with regard to w/drawl of anti-convulsants that are benzos -- my doctor (not one of them) ever told me that this could happen. Ultimately given how much I research having had some less than pleasant experiences (not everyone is an "A" student and/or doctor) I have a bunch of medical books, etc. Interestingly he PDR doesn't state the danger of sudden withdrawl (and it should) what it does, is tell the reader to see anticonvulsants (a section with other groups of meds, antianemic meds for instance) and it is there they are very, very clear about the danger in sudden withdrawal. I am seeing an excellent therapist and if I leave the practice then I leave her too -- hence my delima. Any ideas? Sorry so long it is my first posting. (To dot the i's and cross the t's I am having an EEG tomorrow AM and a brain MRI with contrast on Tuesday -- this was order not by the pyschiatrist but by my internist who thinks I should get out while I am still able to ... well I am sure you get the picture. Thanks for any and all who made it through this "brain dump". :-)
Hi 2sense,May I ask what you taught at MIT?
John
Posted by 2sense on April 10, 2002, at 20:08:08
In reply to Re: I've been scared into quitting! » 2sense, posted by JohnX2 on April 10, 2002, at 19:55:27
I was teaching computer science/engineering, but by and large any and all of the scientists who used our machines, how to use the new CRAY supercomputers (I used to test the s/w and h/w and find security holes before taking to the road to teach at all the sites around the country, and sometimes taught other stuff -- seems like a lifetime ago) at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory National Energy Supercomputing Center -- that's a mouthful.
I found out today that my EEG and my MRI were very bad news. It looks like I have both a seizure disorder and MS.
Sue
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