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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Alex J on January 16, 2002, at 9:29:23
I am looking for input regarding taking a drug "holiday" from a stimulant to help combat tolerance.
Do people have success with this approach? Also, how long a holiday must one take to experience some benefit? Is one day enough?
Thanks in advance,
Alex
Posted by Hattree on January 16, 2002, at 9:33:21
In reply to Drug holidays from stimulants, posted by Alex J on January 16, 2002, at 9:29:23
One day helps, more days help more.
Taking another med for a day or two sometimes helps me, even the decongestant sudafed can make the first day easier.
> I am looking for input regarding taking a drug "holiday" from a stimulant to help combat tolerance.
>
> Do people have success with this approach? Also, how long a holiday must one take to experience some benefit? Is one day enough?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Alex
Posted by IsoM on January 16, 2002, at 13:17:37
In reply to Re: Drug holidays from stimulants, posted by Hattree on January 16, 2002, at 9:33:21
Exactly with Hattree. Even one day makes a small difference. Two or three days & you can almost start from the beginning again.
> One day helps, more days help more.
>
> Taking another med for a day or two sometimes helps me, even the decongestant sudafed can make the first day easier.
>
> > I am looking for input regarding taking a drug "holiday" from a stimulant to help combat tolerance.
> >
> > Do people have success with this approach? Also, how long a holiday must one take to experience some benefit? Is one day enough?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Alex
Posted by cindylou on January 16, 2002, at 13:31:39
In reply to Re: Drug holidays from stimulants, posted by Hattree on January 16, 2002, at 9:33:21
Hattree --
I'm curious about the Sudafed helping out the first day after a stimulant crash (is that what you're saying?) I would do anything to be able to tolerate a stimulant without crashing on it. They help me so much, but only for 2 or 3 days, then i crash SO HARD I feel totally miserable. (I've tried Adderall, Ritilin, Provigil.)I wonder, would Sudafed help THAT kind of crash?
thanks, cindy
> One day helps, more days help more.
>
> Taking another med for a day or two sometimes helps me, even the decongestant sudafed can make the first day easier.
>
> > I am looking for input regarding taking a drug "holiday" from a stimulant to help combat tolerance.
> >
> > Do people have success with this approach? Also, how long a holiday must one take to experience some benefit? Is one day enough?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Alex
Posted by Hattree on January 16, 2002, at 17:57:28
In reply to Re: Drug holidays from stimulants » Hattree, posted by cindylou on January 16, 2002, at 13:31:39
Cindy,
I crash on stims fairly quickly too, but they help so much when they help that I keep working at it.
My strategies:
-take the smallest dose you can benefit from
-time it so you don't have to take more than one in a day--that lets out Ritalin unless you take it late. I find that one pill has to get most of the way out of my system before I take another.-I have several different stimulants and I vary them, both because that helps to slow the poop-out (which I don't find to be a good description in this case, but for lack of a better word...), and because sometimes if I just take a short-acting one one day, the next I'll do better on a longer-acting one. If your pdoc cooperates, try different ones.
-definitely take days off when possible
-sudafed helps because its a mild stimulant.
I spend a ridiculous amount of thought on speed management.
BTW, what have you taken and how do you sleep?
> Hattree --
> I'm curious about the Sudafed helping out the first day after a stimulant crash (is that what you're saying?) I would do anything to be able to tolerate a stimulant without crashing on it. They help me so much, but only for 2 or 3 days, then i crash SO HARD I feel totally miserable. (I've tried Adderall, Ritilin, Provigil.)
>
> I wonder, would Sudafed help THAT kind of crash?
>
> thanks, cindy
>
> > One day helps, more days help more.
> >
> > Taking another med for a day or two sometimes helps me, even the decongestant sudafed can make the first day easier.
> >
> > > I am looking for input regarding taking a drug "holiday" from a stimulant to help combat tolerance.
> > >
> > > Do people have success with this approach? Also, how long a holiday must one take to experience some benefit? Is one day enough?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > >
> > > Alex
Posted by IsoM on January 16, 2002, at 18:28:58
In reply to Re: Drug holidays from stimulants » Hattree, posted by cindylou on January 16, 2002, at 13:31:39
Cindy, you notice a crash after Provigil too? I'm curious to know more because I take adrafinil & it took a good week before I noticed anything.
It was such a gently slow stimulation I didn't even initially notice it. I took it for 5 weeks then ran out. The effects took 4-5 days to all wear off. Not at all like Dexedrine or Ritalin for me, so I'm *very curious* to hear your experiences. Our brain chemistry can differ so much & mine may not be the norm.
> I'm curious about the Sudafed helping out the first day after a stimulant crash (is that what you're saying?) I would do anything to be able to tolerate a stimulant without crashing on it. They help me so much, but only for 2 or 3 days, then i crash SO HARD I feel totally miserable. (I've tried Adderall, Ritilin, Provigil.)
Posted by cindylou on January 16, 2002, at 19:27:48
In reply to Re: Crash after stopping stims » cindylou, posted by IsoM on January 16, 2002, at 18:28:58
Hi IsoM --
First I must warn you that I am so ridiculously med-sensitive that I'm not a good one to compare with ... I can only tolerate about 1/4 of the usual doses of most meds -- and I find relief on that low of a dose as well.
That said, I did crash after taking Provigil for about 3 or 4 days, and what a bummer that was. It worked so well for me, that I was crushed (emotionally and phsycially!) when it backfired on me. I tried it a few different times to see if it was all in my head, but it happened every time.
So, are you saying that you crashed with the Provigil too, but not the Adrafinil? That makes me think about trying the Adrafinil again ...
I tried Adrafinil about six months ago (JohnL got me on the adrafinil bandwagon), but felt really bad on it right away --disoriented, fatigued, cotton-headed, etc. I even ran a red light with my 2-year-old in the backseat, something I've NEVER done before. That time I took one whole tablet (300 mg I think?), then I tried again with 1/2 a tablet and had a similar reaction.
I am still toying with the idea of trying 1/4 tablet of the Adrafinil to see if that may work --It was 1/4 of the Provigil tablet (I can't remember the actual dose) that worked well for me before I crashed.
With Adderall, I feel great with 2.5 mg. (until that crashes as well!) Any more than that and I get the foggy-headed exhaustion. Very strange!
I'm also wondering about Hattree's Sudafed suggestion -- perhaps a Sudafed tablet every now and then could help give me the boost I need on my heavy fatigue days.
Sorry for the LOOOONNNNGGGGGGGG answer!
And so glad to hear the Adrafinil works well for you!
cindy
> Cindy, you notice a crash after Provigil too? I'm curious to know more because I take adrafinil & it took a good week before I noticed anything.
>
> It was such a gently slow stimulation I didn't even initially notice it. I took it for 5 weeks then ran out. The effects took 4-5 days to all wear off. Not at all like Dexedrine or Ritalin for me, so I'm *very curious* to hear your experiences. Our brain chemistry can differ so much & mine may not be the norm.
>
>
>
> > I'm curious about the Sudafed helping out the first day after a stimulant crash (is that what you're saying?) I would do anything to be able to tolerate a stimulant without crashing on it. They help me so much, but only for 2 or 3 days, then i crash SO HARD I feel totally miserable. (I've tried Adderall, Ritilin, Provigil.)
Posted by cindylou on January 16, 2002, at 19:33:42
In reply to Re: Drug holidays from stimulants, posted by Hattree on January 16, 2002, at 17:57:28
Hattree --
THANK YOU! I am going to print out your tips and keep them handy :)I am wondering if perhaps Sudafed might help me on my HEAVY fatigue days, instead of an actual presctiption stimulant ... I am SO sensitive to those things.
I have tried Adderall, Ritilin, and Provigil, and had to take very low doses of all of them. (2.5 mg. Adderall, and 1/4 of the usual Provigil and Ritilin doses). They all worked GREAT for a few days until I crashed.
I sleep pretty well at night ... sometimes I have trouble falling asleep after taking the Lamictal, but once I'm out, I'm out. I've been taking Klonapin to help fall asleep, but find I am so zombie-ish in the morning (and sometimes all day) after taking Klonapin at night that it's not really worth it.
Thanks again!
cindy> Cindy,
>
> I crash on stims fairly quickly too, but they help so much when they help that I keep working at it.
>
> My strategies:
> -take the smallest dose you can benefit from
> -time it so you don't have to take more than one in a day--that lets out Ritalin unless you take it late. I find that one pill has to get most of the way out of my system before I take another.
>
> -I have several different stimulants and I vary them, both because that helps to slow the poop-out (which I don't find to be a good description in this case, but for lack of a better word...), and because sometimes if I just take a short-acting one one day, the next I'll do better on a longer-acting one. If your pdoc cooperates, try different ones.
>
> -definitely take days off when possible
>
> -sudafed helps because its a mild stimulant.
>
> I spend a ridiculous amount of thought on speed management.
>
> BTW, what have you taken and how do you sleep?
>
>
>
> > Hattree --
> > I'm curious about the Sudafed helping out the first day after a stimulant crash (is that what you're saying?) I would do anything to be able to tolerate a stimulant without crashing on it. They help me so much, but only for 2 or 3 days, then i crash SO HARD I feel totally miserable. (I've tried Adderall, Ritilin, Provigil.)
> >
> > I wonder, would Sudafed help THAT kind of crash?
> >
> > thanks, cindy
> >
> > > One day helps, more days help more.
> > >
> > > Taking another med for a day or two sometimes helps me, even the decongestant sudafed can make the first day easier.
> > >
> > > > I am looking for input regarding taking a drug "holiday" from a stimulant to help combat tolerance.
> > > >
> > > > Do people have success with this approach? Also, how long a holiday must one take to experience some benefit? Is one day enough?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance,
> > > >
> > > > Alex
Posted by IsoM on January 16, 2002, at 19:43:48
In reply to Re: Crash after stopping stims » IsoM, posted by cindylou on January 16, 2002, at 19:27:48
No, Cindy, I never used Provigil. It's expensive & if I could get by on adrafinil, I'd rather. You must be super-sensitive alright. Some rare individuals are. Not me though.
The adrafinil did nothing when I took it. It wasn't till I took one a day for about a week that I started to notice the difference. If you can feel the effects immediately from Provigil or adrafinil, your metabolism of it must be very different from mine. Maybe even less than 1/4 tablet would work for you. If it did, it would at least not cost much at all.
If you do have any adrafinil left, you might want to try less than 1/4 tablet, but at a time where you know you can stay home & not have to do much. If you still want to give it a shot, I really would start very, very low for you. Is there any way a doctor could check your reactions to drugs?
I don't know about Sudafed. It doesn't do much for me even when I've used it for bad congestion. Again, I'd try only a very small amount.
>
>
> That said, I did crash after taking Provigil for about 3 or 4 days, and what a bummer that was. It worked so well for me, that I was crushed (emotionally and phsycially!) when it backfired on me. I tried it a few different times to see if it was all in my head, but it happened every time.
>
> So, are you saying that you crashed with the Provigil too, but not the Adrafinil? That makes me think about trying the Adrafinil again ...
>
> I tried Adrafinil about six months ago (JohnL got me on the adrafinil bandwagon), but felt really bad on it right away --disoriented, fatigued, cotton-headed, etc. I even ran a red light with my 2-year-old in the backseat, something I've NEVER done before. That time I took one whole tablet (300 mg I think?), then I tried again with 1/2 a tablet and had a similar reaction.
>
> I am still toying with the idea of trying 1/4 tablet of the Adrafinil to see if that may work --It was 1/4 of the Provigil tablet (I can't remember the actual dose) that worked well for me before I crashed.
Posted by Hattree on January 16, 2002, at 20:31:34
In reply to Re: Drug holidays from stimulants » Hattree, posted by cindylou on January 16, 2002, at 19:33:42
By the way, I'm like you in the small doses category. Which may be why I get wired from Sudafed and Iso doesn't. I've taken a lot of stims, so I'm more tolerant now, but I also started Provigil at 1/4 of a tablet.
Posted by IsoM on January 16, 2002, at 20:49:35
In reply to Re: Drug holidays from stimulants-Cindy, posted by Hattree on January 16, 2002, at 20:31:34
Posted by JohnX2 on January 16, 2002, at 22:58:40
In reply to Drug holidays from stimulants, posted by Alex J on January 16, 2002, at 9:29:23
If you live in Germany, get a prescription
for the medication Akatinol (memantine).
It probably will help prevent the
tolerance issue. It has helped a
few people on this news group completely
eliminate tolerance to Adderall (dexedrine).
If you live in the US you need to wait
till about 2003 for the FDA approval
probably to Forrest Labs (although it
will be for something else, but you can test
it for drug tolerance).-john
> I am looking for input regarding taking a drug "holiday" from a stimulant to help combat tolerance.
>
> Do people have success with this approach? Also, how long a holiday must one take to experience some benefit? Is one day enough?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Alex
Posted by jane d on January 17, 2002, at 4:02:52
In reply to Re: Drug holidays from stimulants, posted by Hattree on January 16, 2002, at 17:57:28
> -time it so you don't have to take more than one in a day--that lets out Ritalin unless you take it late. I find that one pill has to get most of the way out of my system before I take another.
Hattree:
My own trial with Ritalin was unsuccessful and I've always thought that the problem was probably in how I timed the doses. Specifically additional doses later in the day would leave me exhausted. What happened when you took a second pill too soon after the first?
Jane
Posted by Hattree on January 17, 2002, at 8:16:58
In reply to Re: Drug holidays from stimulants » Hattree, posted by jane d on January 17, 2002, at 4:02:52
It would make me spaced out, edgy and exhausted. I do much better with one dose of a longer-acting pill.
> My own trial with Ritalin was unsuccessful and I've always thought that the problem was probably in how I timed the doses. Specifically additional doses later in the day would leave me exhausted. What happened when you took a second pill too soon after the first?
>
> Jane
Posted by Hattree on January 17, 2002, at 8:35:17
In reply to Re: Does caffeine affect you? (nm) » Hattree, posted by IsoM on January 16, 2002, at 20:49:35
Pretty much in the standard way...moderate, short-term energy & mood boost, jitters if overdone.
Posted by Alex J on January 17, 2002, at 9:27:12
In reply to Re: Drug holidays from stimulants » Alex J, posted by JohnX2 on January 16, 2002, at 22:58:40
John,
Although I live in Canada, I have tried memantine to combat Dexedrine tolerance. Unfortunately I could not tolerate memantine due to side effects so I could not determine if it provided any benefit.
For me, at this point, it looks like the best option is periodic drug holidays.
Alex
Posted by cindylou on January 17, 2002, at 11:26:09
In reply to Re: Drug holidays from stimulants-Cindy, posted by Hattree on January 16, 2002, at 20:31:34
Thanks Hattree -- it's good to know I'm not the only out there who reacts to such small doses!
> By the way, I'm like you in the small doses category. Which may be why I get wired from Sudafed and Iso doesn't. I've taken a lot of stims, so I'm more tolerant now, but I also started Provigil at 1/4 of a tablet.
Posted by IsoM on January 17, 2002, at 11:34:56
In reply to Re: Does caffeine affect you? » IsoM, posted by Hattree on January 17, 2002, at 8:35:17
I was curious if you had an over-reaction to caffeine too. Sounds fairly normal alright. Chalk that up to another drug that has little effect on me. It's not that all are like that. Every now & then, one will really affect me. Wish I knew why the differences.
> Pretty much in the standard way...moderate, short-term energy & mood boost, jitters if overdone.
Posted by Andy123 on January 17, 2002, at 17:42:52
In reply to Re: Drug holidays from stimulants » Hattree, posted by cindylou on January 16, 2002, at 13:31:39
They help me so much, but only for 2 or 3 days, then i crash SO HARD I feel totally miserable. (I've tried Adderall, Ritilin, Provigil.)
>
> I wonder, would Sudafed help THAT kind of crash?So would everyone please describe the type of crash they are talking about? Are you describing a crash in your affect or in your energy? Stimulants regularly give me accute dysphoria which is kind of a crash, but 20mg of dexedrine daily has never pooped out on me as far as energy goes. I've found that for the (almost daily) dysphoria that I get from dexedrine spansules that anticholinergic antidepressants work fairly well. Also effexor has been moderately helpful in reducing the severity of these mood crashes.
-Andy
Posted by cindylou on January 17, 2002, at 22:30:45
In reply to Re: Drug holidays from stimulants, posted by Andy123 on January 17, 2002, at 17:42:52
>
> So would everyone please describe the type of crash they are talking about? Are you describing a crash in your affect or in your energy?Hi Andy,
My "crashes" are down and out crushing blows to my energy and my mood. I become exhausted, cloudy-headed, depressed, almost sick, like with the flu or the world's worst hangover. No amount of caffeine or other stimulants can break through it -- they only make it worse. Also, often my ears ring like crazy, so I'm not able to sleep even though I am so sick and tired. Is that the definition of "strung out?"
Posted by Rick on January 18, 2002, at 3:28:45
In reply to Re: Crash after stopping stims » IsoM, posted by cindylou on January 16, 2002, at 19:27:48
> That said, I did crash after taking Provigil for about 3 or 4 days, and what a bummer that was. It worked so well for me, that I was crushed (emotionally and phsycially!) when it backfired on me. I tried it a few different times to see if it was all in my head, but it happened every time.
A couple thoughts re Provigil and crashing or poop-out:
-- Provigil often causes a mild euphoria for the first few days, and when this goes away users may mistake it for poop-out. Could be it just doesn't work for you, or that you need to give it more time or work with the dosage, as discussed.
-- On the flip side, Provigil has the unusual property -- although typically only at higher doses -- of occasionally inducing its own metabolism...i.e., eating itself up, if you will. This lasts only a day or two, during which time you can just take more.
-- Speaking of "taking more", I've found that an occasional spike from my usual 100 mg to 200 mg can be re-energizing. I don't need to do this for more than a day or two at a time. In fact, if I keep it up longer I tend to get a tad wired.
My current meds for non-depressive social phobia are 100 mg Provigil + 1 mg Klonopin, all in the morning.
Rick
Posted by Hattree on January 18, 2002, at 8:28:36
In reply to Re: Crash after stopping stims » cindylou, posted by Rick on January 18, 2002, at 3:28:45
One more thought--I know if I feel a big old rush of good feeling right when the stimulant kicks in, I've taken too much and later on will feel rotten.
Posted by JohnX2 on January 19, 2002, at 22:46:27
In reply to Re: Drug holidays from stimulants » JohnX2, posted by Alex J on January 17, 2002, at 9:27:12
Hi Alex,What type of memantine side affects were interlorable?
Dizziness, loss of speech?Also, what was your dosing regimine,
how long did you take the med, etc?I have a copy of the German PDR translated
to English, and the recommended dosing schedule
is quite slow over 3 weeks and I recall AndrewB
complaining about startup dizziness which
subsided.Also, were you taking any other meds at the time?
Thanks for any feedback.
It would be useful for other members reading
this newsgroup.-John
> John,
>
> Although I live in Canada, I have tried memantine to combat Dexedrine tolerance. Unfortunately I could not tolerate memantine due to side effects so I could not determine if it provided any benefit.
>
> For me, at this point, it looks like the best option is periodic drug holidays.
>
> Alex
Posted by Alex J on January 21, 2002, at 19:36:02
In reply to Re: Drug holidays from stimulants » Alex J, posted by JohnX2 on January 19, 2002, at 22:46:27
Hi John,
I experienced two side effects when I tried memantine, slight dizziness and extreme light sensitivity. The light sensitivity was so bad that wearing sun glasses indoors did not completely alleviate it. As a result I gave up on memantine after only two days, having taken only one morning dose each day. The only other med that has caused light sensitivity for me (to a much lesser degree) has been amisulpride.
When I tried memantine, I was on Dexedrine, low dose Stelazine and Klonopin.
I hope this helps,
Alex
> Hi Alex,
>
> What type of memantine side affects were interlorable?
> Dizziness, loss of speech?
>
> Also, what was your dosing regimine,
> how long did you take the med, etc?
>
> I have a copy of the German PDR translated
> to English, and the recommended dosing schedule
> is quite slow over 3 weeks and I recall AndrewB
> complaining about startup dizziness which
> subsided.
>
> Also, were you taking any other meds at the time?
>
> Thanks for any feedback.
> It would be useful for other members reading
> this newsgroup.
>
> -John
This is the end of the thread.
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