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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on December 30, 2001, at 14:14:51
I am growing continually frustrated with psychiatry & psychiatrists in general. Psychiatrists all seem to be threatened by patients who have any knowledge of psychopharmacology, I guess because it threatens their inflated, insecure egos.
I was in a Mental Hospital Outpatient Program for Depression & Chemical Dependency since I overdosed on Soma muscle relaxer/pain pills and ended up in a hospital. The program was an intensive outpatient one with an assigned psychiatrist and group therapy, about a month in length, 3 hours per day.
Anyways, the psychiatrist prescribed Asendin (Amoxapine) and not only could I not find this old tricyclic drug at 3 different pharmacies, it is also associated with tardive diskeneysia because of its neuroleptic (anti-psychotic) action.
I told the pharmacist that I have seen people with tardive diskenysia on the bus before, & that it is very disturbing & that additionally IRREVERSIBLE tardive diskeneysia has been seen in a few patients taking Asendin at small doses for short periods of time.He became angry & said there is only a 1 in 250,000 chance of that happening. I don't care if it is one in a million, I don't want that disorder, & I thought this was especially ridiculous since there are many safer alternatives than Asendin with similar action.
My pharmacist recommended Sinequan (Doxepin) as a safer alternative with similar therapeutic effects. I sent the doctor a fax telling him that I am still not willing to take the ascendin and that Sinequan or Remeron (which i've taken before with no problems besides somnolence/excessive sleep) would be better choices.
Apparently, my fax, even though it was written in a nice & civil tone (according to my Dad who read it to make sure), enraged this doctor who is the head psychiatrist of a large private mental hosptial. He immediately declared me a non-compliant patient (which means my insurance probably won't pay for the 3 days of group therapy I recieved) and TOTALLY DISCHARGED ME FROM THE PROGRAM, even the group therapy, which I thought was helping me.
I thought about reporting him to one of the state medical boards but am afraid that no psychiatrist would want to take me if I did that. Luckily, I have only depression and social phobia (which I used to self medicate with binge drinking at college parties)- What if I had been a suicidal patient or something (like many of the other people in this program)? I should probably sue this guy, but that would be a real pain.
Anyways, I talked to my former psychiatrist who I don't see anymore because he is in the college town where I went to college (until side effects from SSRIs & Effexor made me unable to go to class, let alone do my homework or study). He thinks I may have Bipolar Depression, and I am going to see him on Monday. The thing is is that I am pretty fed up with psychiatry & don't know if I want to continue taking anything, because they all see to be just mind numbing drugs that dull you intellect & your experience of life. I passed all my classes at a rigourously academic college even though I binged drank every thursday, friday, & saturday night & had the time of my life. But, as soon as I resorted to psychiatry & SSRI anti-depressants to cut down on my drinking, I turned into a blibbering idiot- kind of like in the new movie "A Beautiful Mind" where the lead character is brilliant until the psychiatry quacks load him up with mind-numbing drugs. I think I am going to try 2 months with no psychiatric drugs whatsoever, especially considering that it sounds like the drugs to treat bipolar make you as dumb as a brick- I can't finish college in the fall like that (Also, the only manic episodes I have had were from Zoloft, Celexa, & Effexor XR. Never had mania when I was on no drugs whatsoever.) I have just started an amino acid therapy plan (5-htp, l-tyrosine, & a multivitamin) which i'm hoping will restore the serotonin, norepinephrine, & dopamine to normal non-depressed levels, & just purchased a home gym and am going to start an exercise program. I think a "six pack of ripped abs" would probably do more for my social phobia & lack of self confidence around women than klonopin, anti-depressants or anything else.
Posted by OldSchool on December 30, 2001, at 15:01:45
In reply to Kicked out rehabilitation for refusing TCA Ascend!, posted by 3 Beer Effect on December 30, 2001, at 14:14:51
> I am growing continually frustrated with psychiatry & psychiatrists in general. Psychiatrists all seem to be threatened by patients who have any knowledge of psychopharmacology, I guess because it threatens their inflated, insecure egos.
Many of them are incomptent.
>
> I was in a Mental Hospital Outpatient Program for Depression & Chemical Dependency since I overdosed on Soma muscle relaxer/pain pills and ended up in a hospital. The program was an intensive outpatient one with an assigned psychiatrist and group therapy, about a month in length, 3 hours per day.Hmmmmmm make sure you never try to overdose again OK? When you attempt suicide at any time, this gives your psychiatrist power over you. They can put more pressure on you.
You can have the most severe depression possible, but if you resist it and make sure your psychiatrist knows you are not actively suicidal they have NO POWER over you.
>
> Anyways, the psychiatrist prescribed Asendin (Amoxapine) and not only could I not find this old tricyclic drug at 3 different pharmacies, it is also associated with tardive diskeneysia because of its neuroleptic (anti-psychotic) action.
> I told the pharmacist that I have seen people with tardive diskenysia on the bus before, & that it is very disturbing & that additionally IRREVERSIBLE tardive diskeneysia has been seen in a few patients taking Asendin at small doses for short periods of time.You were smart to refuse Ascendin. That is an "old school" drug used to treat psychotic depression. It can indeed cause EPS, TD and all the other nasty movement disorders you dont need. More problems.
Why cant you augment with atypical anti-psychotics like Zyprexa instead? I dont understand, Ascendin is VERY RARELY prescribed anymore.
Another option is old fashioned ECT, its quite effective for mood disorders with psychotic symptoms. But it comes without the risk of the development of nasty movement disorders and neurological problems.
>
> He became angry & said there is only a 1 in 250,000 chance of that happening. I don't care if it is one in a million, I don't want that disorder, & I thought this was especially ridiculous since there are many safer alternatives than Asendin with similar action.Thats bull...there is more than that chance of you developing TD on Ascendin. BTW, I just got diagnosed with EPS (a mild form of a movement disorder) from taking low dose Seroquel for slightly over a month, combined with an SSRI. Seroquel has a reputation for causing extremely low incidences of movement disorders...well I guess I hit the jackpot on side effects then.
>
> My pharmacist recommended Sinequan (Doxepin) as a safer alternative with similar therapeutic effects. I sent the doctor a fax telling him that I am still not willing to take the ascendin and that Sinequan or Remeron (which i've taken before with no problems besides somnolence/excessive sleep) would be better choices.Um...Sinequan is a lot different than Ascendin. Ascendin is an older tricyclic antidepressant with built in dopamine receptor blocking action (anti-psychotic action). Ascendin is an antidepressant which was engineered with psychotic depression in mind. Sinequan on the other hand is just an older, sedating type tricyclic antidepressant, with no anti-psychotic properties to it like Ascendin has.
Sinequan is a much safer drug, with no chance of inducement of movement disorders.
>
> Apparently, my fax, even though it was written in a nice & civil tone (according to my Dad who read it to make sure), enraged this doctor who is the head psychiatrist of a large private mental hosptial. He immediately declared me a non-compliant patient (which means my insurance probably won't pay for the 3 days of group therapy I recieved) and TOTALLY DISCHARGED ME FROM THE PROGRAM, even the group therapy, which I thought was helping me.Yes, many psychiatrists very badly have a need to be in charge of their patients.
>
> I thought about reporting him to one of the state medical boards but am afraid that no psychiatrist would want to take me if I did that. Luckily, I have only depression and social phobia (which I used to self medicate with binge drinking at college parties)- What if I had been a suicidal patient or something (like many of the other people in this program)? I should probably sue this guy, but that would be a real pain.You should report him to your state medical board. Doing this will NOT impact whether or not other psychiatrists will treat you! Your reporting this psychiatrist to the board is usually kept private anyway.
Just dont OD anymore. Dont attempt suicide ever again. That will keep you out of the hospital. I think you were smart not taking Ascendin, there are many other drugs with better side effect profiles. As well as ECT.
Old School
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on December 30, 2001, at 18:37:33
In reply to Re: Kicked out rehabilitation for refusing TCA Ascend!, posted by OldSchool on December 30, 2001, at 15:01:45
Old School,
I just took the Soma muscle relaxer tablets to get stoned basically. I was sick of not being able to sleep from SSRI induced insomnia. I only meant to take 3 350 mg soma tablets but I guess I blacked out & didn't remember the first 3 and ended up taking 13 & then ended up in the hospital.3 beers
Posted by ST on December 30, 2001, at 23:20:48
In reply to Kicked out rehabilitation for refusing TCA Ascend!, posted by 3 Beer Effect on December 30, 2001, at 14:14:51
> >The thing is is that I am pretty fed up with psychiatry & don't know if I want to continue taking anything, because they all see to be just mind numbing drugs that dull you intellect & your experience of life. > >
I know the feeling, but there is a reason psychiatry and psychopharmacology exist - it does help people. You simply need to take charge. Do research to find out about all the drugs out there. Find a good - and more up to date - doctor and talk with him openly about your concerns and be firm. I have orchestrated my medication choices, dosage and drug combinations for the past few years and what a difference it makes! I'm the one who suggests lowering a dose of one of my meds and raising another, or whether it's time I tried something else.
< < I passed all my classes at a rigourously academic college even though I binged drank every thursday, friday, & saturday night & had the time of my life. But, as soon as I resorted to psychiatry & SSRI anti-depressants to cut down on my drinking, I turned into a blibbering idiot... > >
I went through four years of an extremely intensive conservatory for the arts while completely off my rocker. I don't know how I did it and passed with flying colors and rave reviews! When I got so depressed that I HAD to see a pdoc, I began to get numb and un-creative and dull. But I knew that I could find the right med to help me and not hinder. So I kept tweaking my meds with my doc till I began to feel like my old self again - but more consistent and stable.
Please hang in there. Take control, arm yourself with knowledge, yet keep an open mind. Good luck!
-Sarah
Posted by stjames on December 31, 2001, at 17:45:13
In reply to Kicked out rehabilitation for refusing TCA Ascend!, posted by 3 Beer Effect on December 30, 2001, at 14:14:51
I am growing continually frustrated with psychiatry & psychiatrists in general. Psychiatrists all seem to be threatened by patients who have any knowledge of psychopharmacology, I guess because it threatens their inflated, insecure egos.
I was in a Mental Hospital Outpatient Program for Depression & Chemical Dependency since I overdosed on Soma muscle relaxer/pain pills and ended up in a hospital. The program was an intensive outpatient one with an assigned psychiatrist and group therapy, about a month in length, 3 hours per day.
How about the ego of someone who OD's yet claims
knowledge of psychopharmacology ? I would think this act makes a doc less likly to listen to what you have to say about meds.I will agree that your doc should of been willing
to try another TCA based on your complaints. Given the possibility fo bi polar, any AD by itself would be a bad idea.james
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