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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Collette1 on November 27, 2001, at 9:27:45
I was very excited to receive my Adrafinil and felt that I finally had "the answer" in my hands. The first thing I realized is that the directions, of course, are all in French and that if I wanted to know anything about this drug, like when to take it and how ( with food?), I would be relying on psycho-babble, since my pdoc knows nothing about this drug.
I felt relatively safe taking it, since my pdoc had recently given me Provigil to try.
Unfortunatly, I did have questions about the drug and possible side effects and whenever I posted a question online at Psycho-babble, I never received any responses. I even posted into old threads so as to get a response from some of the old posters about adrafinil. So now, here I am, not doing very well mentally and with no responsive support. MY MISTAKE.
I will get to see my pdoc today and stick with his recommendations, since at least I can usually get some sort of response from him when I need it.
Disappointed, Collette.
Posted by 3 Beer Effect on November 27, 2001, at 14:46:25
In reply to ADRAFINIL and why I must stop it (lack of support), posted by Collette1 on November 27, 2001, at 9:27:45
Adrafinil can cause, with long term use, an elevation in liver enzymes (this is bad). Provigil (Modafinil) has the same therapeutic action as adrafinil but was specifically designed to avoid this problem. Provigil does not elevate liver enzymes & is FDA approved & available by prescription. I bought some Adrafinil too, but now regret it because of the liver damage issue, I wish I had just gotten provigil (modafinil) instead. In the instructions it says to take 2 to 4 pills when you wake up in the morning.
Adrafinil information:
http://adrafinil.com/adrafinil.htmlhttp://smart-drugs.net/insert-adrafinil.htm
Provigil information:
http://www.provigil.com> I was very excited to receive my Adrafinil and felt that I finally had "the answer" in my hands. The first thing I realized is that the directions, of course, are all in French and that if I wanted to know anything about this drug, like when to take it and how ( with food?), I would be relying on psycho-babble, since my pdoc knows nothing about this drug.
> I felt relatively safe taking it, since my pdoc had recently given me Provigil to try.
> Unfortunatly, I did have questions about the drug and possible side effects and whenever I posted a question online at Psycho-babble, I never received any responses. I even posted into old threads so as to get a response from some of the old posters about adrafinil. So now, here I am, not doing very well mentally and with no responsive support. MY MISTAKE.
> I will get to see my pdoc today and stick with his recommendations, since at least I can usually get some sort of response from him when I need it.
> Disappointed, Collette.
Posted by stjames on November 27, 2001, at 14:59:38
In reply to ADRAFINIL and why I must stop it (lack of support), posted by Collette1 on November 27, 2001, at 9:27:45
Collette1,
You are on the internet now, just plug ADRAFINIL
into a search engine, you will get you answers. Be procative, advocate for yourself !James
Posted by Collette1 on November 28, 2001, at 8:54:06
In reply to Re: ADRAFINIL and why I must stop it (lack of support), posted by stjames on November 27, 2001, at 14:59:38
> Collette1,
>
> You are on the internet now, just plug ADRAFINIL
> into a search engine, you will get you answers. Be procative, advocate for yourself !
>
> James
Trust me, I have read just about everything I could find on the net. The problem is that there isn't that much and some of it is so scientific that I can't understand it at all. Still none of it gives the kind of information that is available here, when posters who actually use the product can give you advice. When discussed here in the past, many posters have lamented the fact that there is so little information available about adrafinil. Collette
Posted by stjames on November 28, 2001, at 18:40:20
In reply to ADRAFINIL and why I must stop it (lack of support), posted by Collette1 on November 27, 2001, at 9:27:45
Unfortunatly, I did have questions about the drug and possible side effects and whenever I posted a question online at Psycho-babble, I never received any responses. I even posted into old threads so as to get a response from some of the old posters about adrafinil. So now, here I am, not doing very well mentally and with no responsive support. MY MISTAKE.
It kind of sounds like you are chastising us for not answering.Have you searched the archives ? This med has been discussed quite a bit, your answer might me there. If not I would contact the manufacture to see if there is an English insert to this med. Or do a search at Pub Med or some of the other medical databases. if you can find the info in english, the internet can define the big words or someone this list might be able to help.
james
james
Posted by Mark H. on November 28, 2001, at 18:55:40
In reply to ADRAFINIL and why I must stop it (lack of support), posted by Collette1 on November 27, 2001, at 9:27:45
Collette,
The problem is that many of the regular posters on this board are in the United States, where Adrafinil has not been approved by the FDA and may not be legally sold. No doctor in the United States will give you "approval" to use a drug that is not approved, ESPECIALLY since Provigil, its successor, is much more powerful, has far less risk of damaging your liver, and it is approved for use in the US.
Further, after lengthy discussion and consideration, Dr. Bob adopted a policy whereby posters are forbidden to facilitate the commission of a crime, including importing prescription drugs not approved by the FDA or for which you do not have a valid US prescription. While this policy does NOT mean that individuals cannot discuss their individual experiences with the medication, it does tend to put a damper on enthusiasm for such discussions.
Considering the unapproved / illegal status of Adrafinil and the availabilty to you of Provigil as recommended by your doctor, why exactly are you pursuing additional information about Adrafinil?
Scott has had more experience with Adrafinil than anyone else on this board, I suspect. You might wish to contact him directly for additional information.
Best wishes,
Mark H.
Posted by Collette1 on November 28, 2001, at 19:29:37
In reply to Re: ADRAFINIL and why I must stop it (lack of support), posted by Mark H. on November 28, 2001, at 18:55:40
> Collette,
>
> The problem is that many of the regular posters on this board are in the United States, where Adrafinil has not been approved by the FDA and may not be legally sold. No doctor in the United States will give you "approval" to use a drug that is not approved, ESPECIALLY since Provigil, its successor, is much more powerful, has far less risk of damaging your liver, and it is approved for use in the US.
>
> Further, after lengthy discussion and consideration, Dr. Bob adopted a policy whereby posters are forbidden to facilitate the commission of a crime, including importing prescription drugs not approved by the FDA or for which you do not have a valid US prescription. While this policy does NOT mean that individuals cannot discuss their individual experiences with the medication, it does tend to put a damper on enthusiasm for such discussions.
>
> Considering the unapproved / illegal status of Adrafinil and the availabilty to you of Provigil as recommended by your doctor, why exactly are you pursuing additional information about Adrafinil?
>
> Scott has had more experience with Adrafinil than anyone else on this board, I suspect. You might wish to contact him directly for additional information.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Mark H.Adrafinil is sold WITHOUT a perscription in Europe and therefore it is totally legal to buy this drug without a perscription from the US. I did not break any laws and I am not encouraging others to either. Actually, I am making the point that using a drug from overseas puts you at quite the disadvantage when you need questions answered!
Collette
Posted by stjames on November 28, 2001, at 22:26:08
In reply to Re: ADRAFINIL and why I must stop it (lack of support), posted by Mark H. on November 28, 2001, at 18:55:40
I do not see how it matters one bit that this med
is OTC in Europe, this has little bearing on it legality in the US.Mark raises valid points, you already are prescribed an analogue of Adrafinil. A little research and you would of known this. Also I assumed your Doc was on board with you taking
this; I would not of responded had I realized you were doing this on your own. This is "my mistake".I did find an insert, translated, on the internet.
james
Posted by Cecilia on November 30, 2001, at 2:02:21
In reply to ADRAFINIL and why I must stop it (lack of support), posted by Collette1 on November 27, 2001, at 9:27:45
> I was very excited to receive my Adrafinil and felt that I finally had "the answer" in my hands. The first thing I realized is that the directions, of course, are all in French and that if I wanted to know anything about this drug, like when to take it and how ( with food?), I would be relying on psycho-babble, since my pdoc knows nothing about this drug.
> I felt relatively safe taking it, since my pdoc had recently given me Provigil to try.
> Unfortunatly, I did have questions about the drug and possible side effects and whenever I posted a question online at Psycho-babble, I never received any responses. I even posted into old threads so as to get a response from some of the old posters about adrafinil. So now, here I am, not doing very well mentally and with no responsive support. MY MISTAKE.
> I will get to see my pdoc today and stick with his recommendations, since at least I can usually get some sort of response from him when I need it.
> Disappointed, Collette.John L. doesn`t seem to be posting any more, but if you look in the archives there are sure to be lots of his posts about Adrafinil. It worked wonders for him, but it did nothing for me except increase my insomnia.
Posted by per ekstrom on November 30, 2001, at 10:48:47
In reply to Re: ADRAFINIL and why I must stop it (lack of support), posted by Cecilia on November 30, 2001, at 2:02:21
I tried both Adra and Moda finil, if you respond ti either one of them, the response is quite similar. I never had a good respone so Adrafinil so I switched to Modafinil, but this is all very individual. Modafinil has been excellent for me. Gives drive and motivation without the PUSH you feel from typical psychostimulants.
Adrafinil is NOT OTC in any European country. If you can get your insurers to pay for Modainil in the US, try it out first. Risk of liverdamage is very limited, but its there. Modafinil is basically a metabolite of Adrafinil....no use to get into that now...
1. As always start low....100mg x 3 days 200mg x 3days 400 mg x 3 days 600mg x 3days and upto 800mg...MAYBE 1000mg per day. Just try to listen to your body before you increase the dosage and try to reach steady state as low as possible.Monitor liver values after a month or two, or if felt needed.
Try Modafinil if it fails.
+ as other posters said, seach the archives.
+ GOOD LUCK !
> > I was very excited to receive my Adrafinil and felt that I finally had "the answer" in my hands. The first thing I realized is that the directions, of course, are all in French and that if I wanted to know anything about this drug, like when to take it and how ( with food?), I would be relying on psycho-babble, since my pdoc knows nothing about this drug.
> > I felt relatively safe taking it, since my pdoc had recently given me Provigil to try.
> > Unfortunatly, I did have questions about the drug and possible side effects and whenever I posted a question online at Psycho-babble, I never received any responses. I even posted into old threads so as to get a response from some of the old posters about adrafinil. So now, here I am, not doing very well mentally and with no responsive support. MY MISTAKE.
> > I will get to see my pdoc today and stick with his recommendations, since at least I can usually get some sort of response from him when I need it.
> > Disappointed, Collette.
>
> John L. doesn`t seem to be posting any more, but if you look in the archives there are sure to be lots of his posts about Adrafinil. It worked wonders for him, but it did nothing for me except increase my insomnia.
Posted by per ekstrom on November 30, 2001, at 10:49:04
In reply to Re: ADRAFINIL and why I must stop it (lack of support), posted by Cecilia on November 30, 2001, at 2:02:21
I tried both Adra and Moda finil, if you respond ti either one of them, the response is quite similar. I never had a good respone so Adrafinil so I switched to Modafinil, but this is all very individual. Modafinil has been excellent for me. Gives drive and motivation without the PUSH you feel from typical psychostimulants.
Adrafinil is NOT OTC in any European country. If you can get your insurers to pay for Modainil in the US, try it out first. Risk of liverdamage is very limited, but its there. Modafinil is basically a metabolite of Adrafinil....no use to get into that now...
1. As always start low....100mg x 3 days 200mg x 3days 400 mg x 3 days 600mg x 3days and upto 800mg...MAYBE 1000mg per day. Just try to listen to your body before you increase the dosage and try to reach steady state as low as possible.Monitor liver values after a month or two, or if felt needed.
Try Modafinil if it fails.
+ as other posters said, seach the archives.
+ GOOD LUCK !
> > I was very excited to receive my Adrafinil and felt that I finally had "the answer" in my hands. The first thing I realized is that the directions, of course, are all in French and that if I wanted to know anything about this drug, like when to take it and how ( with food?), I would be relying on psycho-babble, since my pdoc knows nothing about this drug.
> > I felt relatively safe taking it, since my pdoc had recently given me Provigil to try.
> > Unfortunatly, I did have questions about the drug and possible side effects and whenever I posted a question online at Psycho-babble, I never received any responses. I even posted into old threads so as to get a response from some of the old posters about adrafinil. So now, here I am, not doing very well mentally and with no responsive support. MY MISTAKE.
> > I will get to see my pdoc today and stick with his recommendations, since at least I can usually get some sort of response from him when I need it.
> > Disappointed, Collette.
>
> John L. doesn`t seem to be posting any more, but if you look in the archives there are sure to be lots of his posts about Adrafinil. It worked wonders for him, but it did nothing for me except increase my insomnia.
Posted by Mark H. on November 30, 2001, at 15:17:29
In reply to Re: ADRAFINIL and why I must stop it (lack of support), posted by Collette1 on November 28, 2001, at 19:29:37
>I did not break any laws and I am not encouraging others to either. > Collette
Collette,
I didn't say you were. I was trying to answer your question about why you may have not received as much support as you wanted, and directing to you where such support might be available.
My apologies if my posting seemed accusatory to you -- I certainly did not intend it to be.
Best wishes,
Mark H.
Posted by Collette1 on November 30, 2001, at 15:59:26
In reply to Re: ADRAFINIL and why I must stop it (lack of support), posted by Mark H. on November 30, 2001, at 15:17:29
Thanks to everyone who responded to my whining. Just to clear a few things up, I DID seach the internet and I DID read every archive here that I could find. I must say that John L's posts were the most informative and did pretty much convince me to try Adrafinil. The site that I used seemed to indicate that all this was perfectly legal. One of my problems is that I have NO insurance coverage for anything psychological and that includes my Prozac, Geodon and Aprazolam. My pdoc started my on Provigil with some samples and as you may know, it too is a very costly drug. I was just trying to find a less costly and possibly even better solution. At any rate, I will rechallenge the Provigil(modafrinil) in two weeks when I get back from a trip. Maybe it won't even work for me anyway, and if it does, I guess it will be worth the hundreds of dollars it costs me to be "normal"( not to mention the cost of the pdoc himself)! I do save a bit by getting the drugs I can from Canadadrugs.com WITH perscriptions AND my pdocs approval. Collette
Posted by manowar on November 30, 2001, at 16:54:14
In reply to Re: ADRAFINIL and why I must stop it (lack of support), posted by stjames on November 28, 2001, at 22:26:08
> I did find an insert, translated, on the internet.
>
> james
Can you give me the web address? I bought some Adrafinil from overseas and mistakenly threw away the translated insert.
Thanks
--Tim
Posted by manowar on November 30, 2001, at 17:10:11
In reply to Re: ADRAFINIL and why I must stop it (lack of support), posted by per ekstrom on November 30, 2001, at 10:48:47
> Monitor liver values after a month or two, or if felt needed.
Hi,
Thanks for the info. I was hoping that you could answer some questions for me. If I were to start the Adrafinil in a trial what are the chances of liver problems? How could I get a liver function test without telling my pdoc about the Adrafinil? I just had a physical recently and my blood work was okay. My liver should be fine, right? Is it even necessary to worry about my liver before I know if the drug would work for me or not?
Thanks for your help.
Tim
Posted by IsoM on December 3, 2001, at 16:52:58
In reply to ADRAFINIL question » per ekstrom, posted by manowar on November 30, 2001, at 17:10:11
Tim, just because you had blood tests done doesn't mean that liver functions were done too. There's two types of liver function tests that are done by blood work - liver enzyme levels are tested to see if any are out of norm, & serum albumin or prothrombin time tests. There are some enzymes that can be tested looking for liver cell damage; these include alanine aminotransferase (ALT) & aspartate aminotransferase (AST), formerly referred to as the SGPT and SGOT.
Why not ask your doctor if any liver enzyme tests were done? If you're taking any other meds, you can simply say you're curious if they've had any effect on your liver as you've read that many drugs do.
You only have one liver & it's not expendable like an appendix is. You want to take good care of it. I'd be certain to check that I had a good functioning one before I'd start any meds.
(RE: following message)
> > Monitor liver values after a month or two, or if felt needed.
> Hi,
> Thanks for the info. I was hoping that you could answer some questions for me. If I were to start the Adrafinil in a trial what are the chances of liver problems? How could I get a liver function test without telling my pdoc about the Adrafinil? I just had a physical recently and my blood work was okay. My liver should be fine, right? Is it even necessary to worry about my liver before I know if the drug would work for me or not?
> Thanks for your help.
> Tim
Posted by manowar on December 3, 2001, at 18:46:11
In reply to Re: ADRAFINIL question » manowar, posted by IsoM on December 3, 2001, at 16:52:58
Thanks a lot for the info. I'll call my doctor's office in the morning, and if these tests haven't been done I will ask my pdoc about having them done.
I've heard that Pstims can damage the liver, is this true?
Back to the Adrafinil: I guess I best leave it alone, right?> Tim, just because you had blood tests done doesn't mean that liver functions were done too. There's two types of liver function tests that are done by blood work - liver enzyme levels are tested to see if any are out of norm, & serum albumin or prothrombin time tests. There are some enzymes that can be tested looking for liver cell damage; these include alanine aminotransferase (ALT) & aspartate aminotransferase (AST), formerly referred to as the SGPT and SGOT.
>
> Why not ask your doctor if any liver enzyme tests were done? If you're taking any other meds, you can simply say you're curious if they've had any effect on your liver as you've read that many drugs do.
>
> You only have one liver & it's not expendable like an appendix is. You want to take good care of it. I'd be certain to check that I had a good functioning one before I'd start any meds.
>
> (RE: following message)
> > > Monitor liver values after a month or two, or if felt needed.
> > Hi,
> > Thanks for the info. I was hoping that you could answer some questions for me. If I were to start the Adrafinil in a trial what are the chances of liver problems? How could I get a liver function test without telling my pdoc about the Adrafinil? I just had a physical recently and my blood work was okay. My liver should be fine, right? Is it even necessary to worry about my liver before I know if the drug would work for me or not?
> > Thanks for your help.
> > Tim
Posted by IsoM on December 3, 2001, at 19:12:49
In reply to Re: ADRAFINIL question » IsoM, posted by manowar on December 3, 2001, at 18:46:11
Heck no, Tim, I'm not saying don't bother with the adrafinil, I'm just saying be careful & make sure your liver is healthy. If you want to take adrafinil, that's your (& perhaps your doctor's) decision. Just be aware that no drug is without its problems. That doesn't mean everyone experiences problems though. I've been on adrafinil for 3 1/2 weeks & I plan to monitor my liver. So far, everything's fine.
I'm not sure how this address will post as I'm not sure if this site is HTML-enabled but here's a web address that gives a list of various OTC & prescription drugs that can affect the liver. And yes, many psychiatric meds can cause liver damage - it's just not very common. You'll see at the following site that there's a long list & most are trouble-free for the average person. The site is < a href="http://www.hepcnet.net/drugsandliverdamage.html" >< B >< font color=blue >Drugs & Liver Damage< /b >< /font >< /a >
If you do develop liver problems you'll feel nauseous, feverish, develop jaundice (first noticable in yellowing of the white of your eye), dark yellow urine, severe tirednees, & abdominal pain. Mind you, you don't want to wait before you feel that bad.
(RE: following message)
> Thanks a lot for the info. I'll call my doctor's office in the morning, and if these tests haven't been done I will ask my pdoc about having them done.
> I've heard that Pstims can damage the liver, is this true?
> Back to the Adrafinil: I guess I best leave it alone, right?
Posted by manowar on December 3, 2001, at 21:41:55
In reply to Re: ADRAFINIL question » manowar, posted by IsoM on December 3, 2001, at 19:12:49
Thanks again for the info,
How's the Adrafinil going for you so far? Did you try the Modafinil first?
My doctor swears up and down that pstims DO NOT work as ADs, but I swear that the Ritalin analogs help me. I just got the doctor to admit to me today that for some people adderal (real amphetamine) can cause people to get depressed. I've been taking that for the last three weeks, thinking that it might be more effective on my mood and energy than the Ritalin type drugs. I guess it is for some people, but for me it just brought me down even further than I've been. He told me that amphetamine can cause nerve cells to get depleted of dopamine for some people and that depression is a common side effect. He said it's not a problem with Ritalin. Anyway, since the Ritalin analogs seem to help me with my mood, and the Adrafinil is a stimulating AD, it seems to me that it may be helpful.
And, yes this site is HTML-enabled. Thanks again,
Tim
Posted by IsoM on December 3, 2001, at 22:12:39
In reply to Re: ADRAFINIL question » IsoM, posted by manowar on December 3, 2001, at 21:41:55
This site automatically adds web addresses as hyperlinks. I was used to adding my own hyperlinks & HTML text to other forum sites (I post answers at Answer Point at Jeeves & on a garden forum too).
Anyway, it's too soon for me on adrafinil to know how it'll turn out. I'm quite used to meds taking a LONG time to fully kick in. I have noticed mood enhancement! I'm by nature a very perky, happy person but with full blown depression, I'm not typically sad but very bleak & irritable - ready to pull the driver ahead of me out & beat him to a pulp for minor infractions (not that I'm physically capable of it but people do back away when I'm feeling like that).
I'm already on Celexa & a small amount of Paxil but needed something for my ADHD & medium-level narcolepsy. My previous doctor was convinced I had mild/medium narcolepsy - all the signs - but I would've needed to wait for more than a year for an appointment at the university's sleep lab & would have to be off all other meds. I didn't want to go through that. I read science journals & came across the info on modafinil first but before I could be prescribed that it would have to be the sleep lab... So I read everything I could find on adrafinil & thought I'd give it a try.
Before I tried adrafinil, I was fighting to stay bright & alert through the day. I could fall asleep so easily & even while working & being active, I was yawning for 15-45 minutes a stretch, 2 or 3 times a day. Within a week, I was rarely yawning. I felt awake! In a few more days, I started feeling simply more content in a quiet, sweet way - not as hyper as I normally do when I'm happy. My memory seems a little better too, but it's hard to be objective with yourself in some matters. I just seem to be more aware of where I've last put things & other things similar.
I've tried both Ritalin & Dexedrine for my ADHD but while it helps me focus, it speeds up my 'hyperness' too much & I hate the peaks & valleys. Adrafinil is giving me a nice level feeling, something I really appreciate. One thing I have noticed with stimulants is they make me feel very expansive & kind to other people but that may just be my reaction & not necessarily normal.
What your doctor said about dopamine levels becoming depleted is very true. There certainly is a let-down when CNS stimulants wear off. Adrafinil is supposed to work differently.
Sorry for such a long post but I'm not sure what to include & what not to. Better too much info than too litlle. :)
> Thanks again for the info,
>
> How's the Adrafinil going for you so far? Did you try the Modafinil first?
>
> My doctor swears up and down that pstims DO NOT work as ADs, but I swear that the Ritalin analogs help me. I just got the doctor to admit to me today that for some people adderal (real amphetamine) can cause people to get depressed. I've been taking that for the last three weeks, thinking that it might be more effective on my mood and energy than the Ritalin type drugs. I guess it is for some people, but for me it just brought me down even further than I've been. He told me that amphetamine can cause nerve cells to get depleted of dopamine for some people and that depression is a common side effect. He said it's not a problem with Ritalin. Anyway, since the Ritalin analogs seem to help me with my mood, and the Adrafinil is a stimulating AD, it seems to me that it may be helpful.
>
> And, yes this site is HTML-enabled. Thanks again,
> Tim
Posted by manowar on December 4, 2001, at 13:51:33
In reply to Re: ADRAFINIL question » manowar, posted by IsoM on December 3, 2001, at 22:12:39
Thanks a mil for all the info. I really appreciate your detailed post.
I don't know if anyone has done this before, but more than a few times I have gotten frustrated with my meds not working. On a couple of occasions I have ordered several promising drugs from overseas. Luckily, by the time I've got my meds in the mail, I've regained my rational mind. Therefore, I have two or three meds from Europe I've never even bothered to open! One of them is the Adrafinil. It's nice to know that if all else fails and I decide to try Adrafinil, I don't have to wait four weeks to get it in the mail.
Please keep us posted on your progress.
Good luck,
--Tim
Posted by IsoM on December 5, 2001, at 0:41:41
In reply to Re: ADRAFINIL question » IsoM, posted by manowar on December 4, 2001, at 13:51:33
This is the end of the thread.
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