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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Tangerine on September 10, 2001, at 11:29:54
Has anyone NOT had increase appetite or weight gain on Zyprexa( 2.5 mgs) for SSRI augmentation?
I was very reluctant to try this med related to the weight issue. But things have gotten so lousy I need something to augment my AD. And other meds, like Geodon, etc. have failed.
Can anyone tell me their experience with Zyprexa? Side effects, appetite/weight changes and dosages, improvements, failures?
Many thanks all
T
Posted by Greg on September 10, 2001, at 11:49:48
In reply to Anyone NOT gain weight on ZYPREXA?, posted by Tangerine on September 10, 2001, at 11:29:54
Nope. 45 lbs increase in 10 months. But...my psych put me Topamax as a mood stabilizer about a month ago which he said should also help me lose weight. That along with the help of a dear friend who is assisting me with a new diet, I have managed to lose 5 lbs over the last week and half. I think good eating habits are really critical when taking Zyprexa, are you watching your diet closely? I wasn't. I'm a junk-food junkie :(
Greg
> Has anyone NOT had increase appetite or weight gain on Zyprexa( 2.5 mgs) for SSRI augmentation?
>
> I was very reluctant to try this med related to the weight issue. But things have gotten so lousy I need something to augment my AD. And other meds, like Geodon, etc. have failed.
>
> Can anyone tell me their experience with Zyprexa? Side effects, appetite/weight changes and dosages, improvements, failures?
>
> Many thanks all
> T
Posted by fluffykitty on September 10, 2001, at 12:30:20
In reply to Re: Anyone NOT gain weight on ZYPREXA? » Tangerine, posted by Greg on September 10, 2001, at 11:49:48
> Nope. 45 lbs increase in 10 months. But...my
>psych put me Topamax as a mood stabilizer about
>a month ago which he said should also help me
>lose weight. That along with the help of a dear
>friend who is assisting me with a new diet, I
>have managed to lose 5 lbs over the last week
>and half. I think good eating habits are really
>critical when taking Zyprexa, are you watching
>your diet closely? I wasn't. I'm a junk-food
>junkie :(This is actually something I wanted to start talking about. What exactly is it that makes people gain weight when they go on these drugs? Is it increased appettite so they just start eating more? Is it bad diet? Junk food? Water retention?
Im on Neurontin and Im determined not to gain more weight! I need to lose some as it is. Im really trying to watch what I eat, no junk food, and when Im still hungry after eating I make a slim fast shake or eat a Kashi bar. The cookies and cream kashi go lean bar tastes like a candy bar. So I figure its better to eat that then a 3 musketeers. You know?! High fiber veggies like brocolli also make you feel fuller.fk
Posted by Greg on September 10, 2001, at 12:55:55
In reply to Re: Anyone NOT gain weight on ZYPREXA?, posted by fluffykitty on September 10, 2001, at 12:30:20
fk,
For me, I don't know that is was so much of an increase in appetite as it was what I craved to eat. I found myself wanting more carbohydrates, especially pastas. If I understand correctly (note the disclaimer), carbos make you feel fuller but metabolize in the system much more slowly making exercise critical, which is not my strong suit. Without the proper exercise it turns into fat cells I believe.
I really don't know why some meds cause weight gain, but I'm sure Cam could shed some light on that and Tina knows her stuff about how food does it's thing in the body. Hopefully they'll be able to give us some input.
Sorry I can't be more help.
Greg
> This is actually something I wanted to start talking about. What exactly is it that makes people gain weight when they go on these drugs? Is it increased appettite so they just start eating more? Is it bad diet? Junk food? Water retention?
> Im on Neurontin and Im determined not to gain more weight! I need to lose some as it is. Im really trying to watch what I eat, no junk food, and when Im still hungry after eating I make a slim fast shake or eat a Kashi bar. The cookies and cream kashi go lean bar tastes like a candy bar. So I figure its better to eat that then a 3 musketeers. You know?! High fiber veggies like brocolli also make you feel fuller.
>
> fk
Posted by tina on September 10, 2001, at 16:52:35
In reply to Re: Anyone NOT...Cam? Tina? » fluffykitty, posted by Greg on September 10, 2001, at 12:55:55
Hey fluff
Since I seem to have been volunteered here, I'll take the reins for a second.
I don't have a clue what the meds do pharmacologically to the neurochemicals in the brain to facilitate weight gain so I won't even bother trying to go there!
I DO, however, know that what they do has a definite effect on metabolism and weight, in my own experience. As to Zyprexa, I've never taken it but the people I know who have, have gained differing amounts of weight. AD's affect everyone differently so I can't say whether everyone gains weight on them. Some actually lose(lucky them)
Anyhoos, if you have specific questions about weight loss while on AD's, you can email me privately at ashmod@hotmail.com because I would have some questions for you before giving you specific advice.
Hope this helps some.
Tina> fk,
>
> For me, I don't know that is was so much of an increase in appetite as it was what I craved to eat. I found myself wanting more carbohydrates, especially pastas. If I understand correctly (note the disclaimer), carbos make you feel fuller but metabolize in the system much more slowly making exercise critical, which is not my strong suit. Without the proper exercise it turns into fat cells I believe.
>
> I really don't know why some meds cause weight gain, but I'm sure Cam could shed some light on that and Tina knows her stuff about how food does it's thing in the body. Hopefully they'll be able to give us some input.
>
> Sorry I can't be more help.
>
> Greg
>
> > This is actually something I wanted to start talking about. What exactly is it that makes people gain weight when they go on these drugs? Is it increased appettite so they just start eating more? Is it bad diet? Junk food? Water retention?
> > Im on Neurontin and Im determined not to gain more weight! I need to lose some as it is. Im really trying to watch what I eat, no junk food, and when Im still hungry after eating I make a slim fast shake or eat a Kashi bar. The cookies and cream kashi go lean bar tastes like a candy bar. So I figure its better to eat that then a 3 musketeers. You know?! High fiber veggies like brocolli also make you feel fuller.
> >
> > fk
Posted by Cam W. on September 10, 2001, at 18:40:15
In reply to Anyone NOT gain weight on ZYPREXA?, posted by Tangerine on September 10, 2001, at 11:29:54
Tangerine - 70% of people who take Zyprexa do gain some weight. This means that 30% of people don't. The big thing to gaining weight is carbohydrate (and fat) cravings. If you are diligen, exercise and watch what you eat, (ie, keep a food diary) and do not change your intake, the weight gain can be minimized. The weight gain seems to occur within the first 8 months of Zyprexa use, then tapers off.
Therefore, if you can control the urges for 8 months, you will not gain much weight, if any. The drug is very effective, but those who ignore the weight gain aspects will be burnt. It does take a lot of diligence and will power, but it can be defeated.
Fill up on veggies, rather than the stuff you would like to. I hope that this is of some help. - Cam
Posted by Tangerine on September 10, 2001, at 19:07:23
In reply to Re: Anyone NOT gain weight on ZYPREXA? » Tangerine, posted by Cam W. on September 10, 2001, at 18:40:15
- 70% of people who take Zyprexa do gain some weight.
This is a remarkably high number. What an unfortunate side effect. I am pretty diligent about what and how much I eat. And I do get some kind of exercise most everyday, if only a walk. I was just hoping that I would not have to become "obsessed" with everything I eat...I guess I can't just trust my hunger pangs anymore.
BTW is the increased hunger at all dose related?Thanks for the great info, everyone
T
Posted by Cam W. on September 10, 2001, at 19:13:52
In reply to Re: Anyone NOT gain weight on ZYPREXA?-Greg, » Cam W., posted by Tangerine on September 10, 2001, at 19:07:23
Tangerine - No, the hunger does not seem to be dose related. Either you get it or you don't. Diligence, with what you eat, seems to be the key.
- Cam
Posted by tina on September 10, 2001, at 20:48:21
In reply to Re: Weight loss on Ad's » Greg, posted by tina on September 10, 2001, at 16:52:35
> Hey fluff
> Since I seem to have been volunteered here, I'll take the reins for a second.
> I don't have a clue what the meds do pharmacologically to the neurochemicals in the brain to facilitate weight gain so I won't even bother trying to go there!
> I DO, however, know that what they do has a definite effect on metabolism and weight, in my own experience. As to Zyprexa, I've never taken it but the people I know who have, have gained differing amounts of weight. AD's affect everyone differently so I can't say whether everyone gains weight on them. Some actually lose(lucky them)
> Anyhoos, if you have specific questions about weight loss while on AD's, you can email me privately at ashmod@hotmail.com because I would have some questions for you before giving you specific advice.
> Hope this helps some.
> Tina
>
> > fk,
> >
> > For me, I don't know that is was so much of an increase in appetite as it was what I craved to eat. I found myself wanting more carbohydrates, especially pastas. If I understand correctly (note the disclaimer), carbos make you feel fuller but metabolize in the system much more slowly making exercise critical, which is not my strong suit. Without the proper exercise it turns into fat cells I believe.
> >
> > I really don't know why some meds cause weight gain, but I'm sure Cam could shed some light on that and Tina knows her stuff about how food does it's thing in the body. Hopefully they'll be able to give us some input.
> >
> > Sorry I can't be more help.
> >
> > Greg
> >
> > > This is actually something I wanted to start talking about. What exactly is it that makes people gain weight when they go on these drugs? Is it increased appettite so they just start eating more? Is it bad diet? Junk food? Water retention?
> > > Im on Neurontin and Im determined not to gain more weight! I need to lose some as it is. Im really trying to watch what I eat, no junk food, and when Im still hungry after eating I make a slim fast shake or eat a Kashi bar. The cookies and cream kashi go lean bar tastes like a candy bar. So I figure its better to eat that then a 3 musketeers. You know?! High fiber veggies like brocolli also make you feel fuller.
> > >
> > > fk
Posted by Tangerine on September 10, 2001, at 20:48:33
In reply to Re: Anyone NOT gain weight on ZYPREXA?-Greg, » Tangerine, posted by Cam W. on September 10, 2001, at 19:13:52
Posted by Zo on September 10, 2001, at 21:55:58
In reply to Re: Anyone NOT gain weight on ZYPREXA?-Greg, » Tangerine, posted by Cam W. on September 10, 2001, at 19:13:52
Despite a boringly healthy diet, of all whole foods, and the same exercise as before, I gained more than 60lbs with Zyprexa. And wanted so much to stay on it, I *combed* the web. . and found nothing. Not a thing. Except plaintive cries; I'm 50 lbs heavier, I've gained 80. Everywhere, it was women who said it was, like me, the best med they'd ever been on -- and the weight gain was killing them.
In this case, literally: it's all insulin fat, which puts you at risk for Type I Diabetes and heart attack. Manufacturer NOW says, Take 300mg Axid twice a day, even pretreat, prevents weght gain is a certain %.
But what we have here is a *problem.* Geodon was developed and is marketed as the alternative to Zyprexa. . .but they're not remotely interchangable.
I don't know how much stringent appetite control would have helped. With me, it was an overall low-blood-sugar type hunger, I was just simply famished. Well beyond "carbo cravings."
And I almost considered life as a fat person, I felt *so* good otherwise. Then my pdoc suggested taking it with Glucophage. Let me know when you find the answer! For now, I'm on Buprenorphine, and hardly hungry. It's been a *very* pleasant med, for me.
Good luck!
Zo
Posted by NikkiT2 on September 11, 2001, at 6:52:55
In reply to Re: Anyone NOT gain weight on ZYPREXA?-Greg,, posted by Zo on September 10, 2001, at 21:55:58
After a nightmare effexor weight gain, I finally started getting my weight under control (no more weight gain and slowly started coming off) and then I started on Zyprexa... I am hungry ALL the time.. I wake up in the night famished.. its a total nightmare... theres only so many carrots you can eat before going orange, I swear!!!
Luckily the gym I am a member of (haven;t visisted for 6 months as it was next to work) is opening a branch near my flat - Just dying for it to open so I can start going...
Nikki
> Despite a boringly healthy diet, of all whole foods, and the same exercise as before, I gained more than 60lbs with Zyprexa. And wanted so much to stay on it, I *combed* the web. . and found nothing. Not a thing. Except plaintive cries; I'm 50 lbs heavier, I've gained 80. Everywhere, it was women who said it was, like me, the best med they'd ever been on -- and the weight gain was killing them.
>
> In this case, literally: it's all insulin fat, which puts you at risk for Type I Diabetes and heart attack. Manufacturer NOW says, Take 300mg Axid twice a day, even pretreat, prevents weght gain is a certain %.
>
> But what we have here is a *problem.* Geodon was developed and is marketed as the alternative to Zyprexa. . .but they're not remotely interchangable.
>
> I don't know how much stringent appetite control would have helped. With me, it was an overall low-blood-sugar type hunger, I was just simply famished. Well beyond "carbo cravings."
>
> And I almost considered life as a fat person, I felt *so* good otherwise. Then my pdoc suggested taking it with Glucophage. Let me know when you find the answer! For now, I'm on Buprenorphine, and hardly hungry. It's been a *very* pleasant med, for me.
>
> Good luck!
> Zo
Posted by shelliR on September 11, 2001, at 8:48:30
In reply to Re: Anyone NOT gain weight on ZYPREXA?-Greg,, posted by Zo on September 10, 2001, at 21:55:58
>
> But what we have here is a *problem.* Geodon was developed and is marketed as the alternative to Zyprexa. . .but they're not remotely interchangable.
>
For you they were obviously not interchangable. I don't think there is enough data out yet to make that assumption for everyone. If it were me, I'd try geodon first, then move on, and make a decision about trying zyprexa. Hopefully geodon will be a good med for some. I appreciate your posts on zyprexa and weight gain; they help balance JohnL.'s unbridled enthusiam.
>
Shelli
Posted by fluffykitty on September 12, 2001, at 12:17:42
In reply to Re: above post is for fluffykitty not Greg--oops, posted by tina on September 10, 2001, at 20:48:21
> > Hey fluff
> > Since I seem to have been volunteered here, I'll take the reins for a second.Ok I got it thanks and thanks all!
Yea this med stuff with what it can do to the metabolism and feelings of hunger is a mixed bag, double edged sword.
I try to do a more healthy version of a Atkins/Zone kind of diet. People talk about "carbohydrates" and eating them or not or craving them. Technically speaking from what I understand, one can supposedly get all the carbos they need from specific vegetables. The other stuff bread et all is enriched carbos or something. I try to balance eating protein and lots of veggies and fruits with some enriched carbos like rice and a little bread or oatmeal or cereal. The problem of course is that as people have said before is that protein blocks reception of serotonin which enriched carbos create and make people feel better. Or something like that. So carbo cravings are for those foods which do the thing with serotonin that make people feel better or feel good. There was an article in the paper about it too saying sometimes if you feel blue then have some carbos. I know that I certainly feel better after a nice bagel with cream cheese! :) So my task is to balance not only portion size but protein and carbos so dont eat too much of one or the other which isnt good. And get some excersize!Someone mentioned low blood sugar and I have a somewhat low blood sugar problem. I generally eat oatmeal in the morning but if I dont have some protein for lunch and then dinner Im in trouble. I know some people feel better with carbos only but I dont. If I dont eat protein I dont have energy. I had wished I could be a vegetarian but I cant do it. I know what goes in those slaughter houses and the horror that it is, for all types of animals, but I cant do without it. The only thing that makes me feel ok about it to some degree is that way back when, people routinely killed animals for thier food just as those animals, some of them anyway, killed other animals for food as well. Or as for the veggie animals, they get killed by carnivores like wolves and lions etc.
Anyway, I used to eat food I shouldnt have and in quantity due to stress and not feeling well mentally. Now that Im on the med, Im feeling better and less stressed. So even if I may feel more hunger sometimes due to the med, I feel like I have more will power to resist and eat healthier things. I just hope I can keep it up on a regular basis to at least not gain weight if not lose some. Ill let you know!
fk
Posted by MB on September 12, 2001, at 20:42:31
In reply to Re: above post is for fk - et all DIET/Weight gain, posted by fluffykitty on September 12, 2001, at 12:17:42
Also, I've heard that aminos compete to cross the blood-brain barrier so when you eat lots of protein, all the aminos in the protein compete with l-tryptophan to get into your brain so less l-tryptophan can get in there and convert to seratonin. However, if you exercise hard daily, your muscles will utilize the extra aminos that you eat, leaving the l-tryptophan to get into the brain...or something like that. Why the muscles don't use up the l-tryptophan too, I don't know. But BUT BUT, as we all know, it is FRIGGIN' HARD to exercise when depression and anxiety have rendered you fatigued and shaky
Posted by Collete on September 14, 2001, at 8:19:16
In reply to Anyone NOT gain weight on ZYPREXA?, posted by Tangerine on September 10, 2001, at 11:29:54
I > Has anyone NOT had increase appetite or weight gain on Zyprexa( 2.5 mgs) for SSRI augmentation?
>
> I was very reluctant to try this med related to the weight issue. But things have gotten so lousy I need something to augment my AD. And other meds, like Geodon, etc. have failed.
>
> Can anyone tell me their experience with Zyprexa? Side effects, appetite/weight changes and dosages, improvements, failures?
>
> Many thanks all
> T
I started Zypexa(2.5mg) one month ago and it has changed my life( to put it mildly), so when the weight started coming on, I was pretty upset. At first, the hunger seemed to just come in the evening, when that chemical kind of drowsyness hits. But shortly after, it was all day. Constant HUNGER and also CRAVINGS! I tried very hard to at least eat things that were healthy and not junk, but the need to eat was almost uncontrollable. As of exactly two days ago, the cravings and hunger have SUBSIDED almost completely, so I am hopeful about getting the fast 10 lb gain off. Another thing is that I was RETAINING water like a sponge. I haven't heard anyone mention this, but when I told my pdoc, he said it WAS a side effect and perscribed a water pill(lasic) and a potassium pill(K-dur). My eyes were looking like slits, my fingers were sausages and my shoes were too tight! This AM was my first water pill and in just a few hours, I have "lost" a few lbs and my rings fit! My pdoc said that NOT everyone maintains the side effect of weight gain...I hope to be one of them and certainly will fight it any way I can, because this drug is like a miracle for me. HTH, Collette
Posted by Tangerine on September 15, 2001, at 10:33:56
In reply to Re: Anyone NOT gain weight on ZYPREXA? » Tangerine, posted by Collete on September 14, 2001, at 8:19:16
Thanks Collette,
I am so glad you have a pdoc who is on top of your side effect situation. Most people go off great meds due to bad effects. It great your pdoc was able to address the water retention. I bet you will lose your 10 pounds in a day!I have had alot of hunger with Zyprexa. But no real cravings. I have not gained weight, but I do always feel hungry, which annoys me so much.
One thing I notice on Z is that I am annoyed alot. I feel like I have less patience. I wonder if this is from the Z or is it pms or being hungry and being afraid to eat because of this infamous weight gain?I would really like to increase from 2.5 to 5 mgs. I think I might sleep more soundly, and be less grumpy. I have the ok from my pdoc, but I am aware of some teeth clenching that worries me. I wonder if this is an extra pyramidal symptom which could lead to TD???
Does anyone else feel "annoyed" or less patient on Zyprexa? I also am rather bummed the sedation has worn off. I had two nights of phenomenal sleep where I didn't wake up once in the night. That is a miracle for me! But now I am back to my old ways of waking every few hours :(.
Sorry for the rant! Any info appreciated.
T
Posted by Collete on September 15, 2001, at 10:48:55
In reply to Re: ZYPREXA, weight, eps? » Collete, posted by Tangerine on September 15, 2001, at 10:33:56
> Thanks Collette,
> I am so glad you have a pdoc who is on top of your side effect situation. Most people go off great meds due to bad effects. It great your pdoc was able to address the water retention. I bet you will lose your 10 pounds in a day!
>
> I have had alot of hunger with Zyprexa. But no real cravings. I have not gained weight, but I do always feel hungry, which annoys me so much.
> One thing I notice on Z is that I am annoyed alot. I feel like I have less patience. I wonder if this is from the Z or is it pms or being hungry and being afraid to eat because of this infamous weight gain?
>
> I would really like to increase from 2.5 to 5 mgs. I think I might sleep more soundly, and be less grumpy. I have the ok from my pdoc, but I am aware of some teeth clenching that worries me. I wonder if this is an extra pyramidal symptom which could lead to TD???
>
> Does anyone else feel "annoyed" or less patient on Zyprexa? I also am rather bummed the sedation has worn off. I had two nights of phenomenal sleep where I didn't wake up once in the night. That is a miracle for me! But now I am back to my old ways of waking every few hoursT, how long have you been on Zyprexa? I have been on a month and the last three nights seem to be bringing a return of some sleep problems along with a reduction of the tremedous appetite. Hopefully, if I increase my dose, I will sleep better but not have the other side effects. Cam seemed to say that the hunger was NOT dose related. I have not had any increase in irritability...quite the opposite, which is one reason why I am happy with this drug.
I don't know about the teeth clenching...I haven't had that either.
BTW, I can't really say my pdoc was "on top" of things. It was I who called him and asked for a water pill. I am lucky that he listens though, since it was also ME who asked for Zyprexa after his trial with Depakote was a failure.
Collette
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