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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 61. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Rosa on August 21, 2001, at 7:06:06
If you think you may have a problem with prescribed medications, the Just For Today Meditation may be for you.
Rosa
You can read the JFT online at http://www.jft.ca/jftmeditation
Posted by stjames on August 21, 2001, at 16:32:56
In reply to JUST FOR TODAY, posted by Rosa on August 21, 2001, at 7:06:06
> If you think you may have a problem with prescribed medications, the Just For Today Meditation may be for you.
>
> Rosa
>
> You can read the JFT online at http://www.jft.ca/jftmeditationJames here.....
Most of us here have serious mental illness and need our meds. We do not need Narcotics Anonymous.
James
Posted by Maisy on August 21, 2001, at 17:02:47
In reply to JUST FOR TODAY, posted by Rosa on August 21, 2001, at 7:06:06
Rosa, Would you post the same thing on a board for insulin dependent diabetics?
Posted by Rosa on August 21, 2001, at 18:03:27
In reply to Re: JUST FOR TODAY, posted by Maisy on August 21, 2001, at 17:02:47
Not unless there was some other form of drug dependency.
Rosa, Would you post the same thing on a board for insulin dependent diabetics?
Posted by stjames on August 21, 2001, at 18:38:31
In reply to Re: JUST FOR TODAY » Maisy, posted by Rosa on August 21, 2001, at 18:03:27
> Not unless there was some other form of drug dependency.
>
> Rosa, Would you post the same thing on a board for insulin dependent diabetics?james here.....
Then How is thei board different ?
james
Posted by Zo on August 21, 2001, at 22:15:51
In reply to Re: JUST FOR TODAY, posted by stjames on August 21, 2001, at 18:38:31
Posted by Rosa on August 22, 2001, at 6:47:00
In reply to Re: JUST FOR TODAY, posted by stjames on August 21, 2001, at 18:38:31
The 'Just For Today' post was meant to be helpful to those who have a problem with addiction to prescription medicines.
Do you think that it is possible to be addicted to prescription medicine?
Do you think drug abuse is a physical (chemical) or an emotional (social) problem?
Posted by KarenB on August 22, 2001, at 7:12:20
In reply to JUST FOR TODAY, posted by Rosa on August 21, 2001, at 7:06:06
Rosa,
It is my understanding that this board is here as a support group for those with prescription medication as a medical necesssity. And it is a good one. I get understanding, vital information for my illness and a group whom I consider to be "friends" here.
A suggestion of a Narcotics Anonymous board? What is YOUR motivation?
KarenB
Posted by Simcha on August 22, 2001, at 7:35:17
In reply to Re: JUST FOR TODAY, posted by Rosa on August 22, 2001, at 6:47:00
Rosa,
I am in several 12-step groups. If you go to an AA meeting and scan the literature on the back table you will find a handy pamphlet about the use of prescription medication in the treatment of mental illness. It describes how mental illness is a physical/medical problem whereas alcoholism/addiction is a spiritual problem. It also shows that some members of AA may need medication to restore chemical balance in the brain if they happen to be mentally ill. It also cautions overly zealous AAers who are not mentally ill to not judge an AAer who is mentally ill and to not deprive a fellow AAer of a very necessary medical treatment.
Another book which you might find useful is "I Can See Tomorrow" by Patricia Owen and it is published by Hazelden. In this book it cautions those of us who are in recovery suffering from clinical depression that we not judge ourselves if we need medication for this very physical/medical problem. It goes on to explain that since our depression is physical it requires a physical remedy (medication).
I suggest that you talk to your sponsor and other memvbers of your group if you have issues with this. Also I suggest that you try Al-Anon if you feel that you might be "saving" us from a prescription medication addiction.
In Peace I Wish You Serenity,
Simcha.> The 'Just For Today' post was meant to be helpful to those who have a problem with addiction to prescription medicines.
>
> Do you think that it is possible to be addicted to prescription medicine?
>
> Do you think drug abuse is a physical (chemical) or an emotional (social) problem?
Posted by akc on August 22, 2001, at 7:45:41
In reply to Re: JUST FOR TODAY Rosa Pay Attention » Rosa, posted by Simcha on August 22, 2001, at 7:35:17
Simcha,
As a member of AA (and Alanon) who suffered from some pretty extreme judgment early on in the program for taking psychiatric medications (the verbalization of that judgment stopped after my suicide attempt), I just want to say "Well put."
akc
> Rosa,
>
> I am in several 12-step groups. If you go to an AA meeting and scan the literature on the back table you will find a handy pamphlet about the use of prescription medication in the treatment of mental illness. It describes how mental illness is a physical/medical problem whereas alcoholism/addiction is a spiritual problem. It also shows that some members of AA may need medication to restore chemical balance in the brain if they happen to be mentally ill. It also cautions overly zealous AAers who are not mentally ill to not judge an AAer who is mentally ill and to not deprive a fellow AAer of a very necessary medical treatment.
>
> Another book which you might find useful is "I Can See Tomorrow" by Patricia Owen and it is published by Hazelden. In this book it cautions those of us who are in recovery suffering from clinical depression that we not judge ourselves if we need medication for this very physical/medical problem. It goes on to explain that since our depression is physical it requires a physical remedy (medication).
>
> I suggest that you talk to your sponsor and other memvbers of your group if you have issues with this. Also I suggest that you try Al-Anon if you feel that you might be "saving" us from a prescription medication addiction.
>
> In Peace I Wish You Serenity,
> Simcha.
>
>
>
> > The 'Just For Today' post was meant to be helpful to those who have a problem with addiction to prescription medicines.
> >
> > Do you think that it is possible to be addicted to prescription medicine?
> >
> > Do you think drug abuse is a physical (chemical) or an emotional (social) problem?
Posted by triedit on August 22, 2001, at 8:01:24
In reply to Re: JUST FOR TODAY » Simcha, posted by akc on August 22, 2001, at 7:45:41
In Rosa's (semi?) defense...
Not all doctors are on-track. We all have to be aware and responsible for our own use of medication. There are some psych drugs that are definitely addictive--in the physcial sense as well as the spiritual. Xanax is a prime example. Personally I believe that when we use this sort of drug INSTEAD OF doing the work of therapy and fixing our own lives, then there is an addiction issue. I'm in no way suggesting that we should all stop our drugs because of addiction.
In the insulin sense, yes I believe that can be an addiction of sorts as well--my father uses his insulin more than he should because he refuses to alter his diet. If he would alter his diet he could reduce his use of his insulin. In the same light, if someone can 'fix' parts of thier life in therapy and get off some of the tranq's then that person may need to think about the addiction issue.
Personally, I don't think Rosa meant any harm. And I think we all need to look at why we take our meds. Many, many people on this board need thier meds to live. But who's to say there isnt someone out there who found a doc who said "oh you are a little stressed out, take this for awhile". It happens every day.
Posted by Simcha on August 22, 2001, at 8:23:47
In reply to Re: JUST FOR TODAY, posted by triedit on August 22, 2001, at 8:01:24
Yes,
I do agree, we are all responsible for our own recovery. I need to question the therapy that my doctor offers and I need to consider my options.
After 10 years of therapy and 5 years of the 12-steps I was still majorly depressed. I tried all of the spiritual solutions I could think of. Medication had been suggested many times before and I fought it tooth and nail.
This past January I was in such a deep dark hole that I finally was willing to try anything to get out. Effexor came to the rescue, after a whole bunch of arguing with my therapist and a major resistance on my part. Now I see that even after changing my behavior, I still have a chemical imbalance that, for now, only medication seems to restore. I still seek therapy. I go to meetings. I work on my end of it. I let the medication work on the physical/medical side of it.
Depression for me has it's roots in a medical/physical condition. By doing therapy and the 12-steps I whacked away at the leaves and the branches of my depression. Until I got meds the roots were always there to grow another tree of depression. Now the meds have gotten to the roots and I can attend to my life more effectively. In my case, until something better comes along, I will not live without my medication. I have come to accept that. It is not addiction for me. It is a free choice to live a life worth living.
> In Rosa's (semi?) defense...
>
> Not all doctors are on-track. We all have to be aware and responsible for our own use of medication. There are some psych drugs that are definitely addictive--in the physcial sense as well as the spiritual. Xanax is a prime example. Personally I believe that when we use this sort of drug INSTEAD OF doing the work of therapy and fixing our own lives, then there is an addiction issue. I'm in no way suggesting that we should all stop our drugs because of addiction.
>
> In the insulin sense, yes I believe that can be an addiction of sorts as well--my father uses his insulin more than he should because he refuses to alter his diet. If he would alter his diet he could reduce his use of his insulin. In the same light, if someone can 'fix' parts of thier life in therapy and get off some of the tranq's then that person may need to think about the addiction issue.
>
> Personally, I don't think Rosa meant any harm. And I think we all need to look at why we take our meds. Many, many people on this board need thier meds to live. But who's to say there isnt someone out there who found a doc who said "oh you are a little stressed out, take this for awhile". It happens every day.
Posted by Rosa on August 22, 2001, at 8:53:03
In reply to JUST FOR TODAY, posted by Rosa on August 21, 2001, at 7:06:06
I believe that the elderly are being given too many medications and that the possibility of addiction is there.
How many medications are your parents currently being prescribed?
I suggest checking for drug interactions at www.drkoop.com.
Rosa
---------------------
If you think you may have a problem with prescribed medications, the Just For Today Meditation may be for you.
>
> Rosa
>
> You can read the JFT online at http://www.jft.ca/jftmeditation
Posted by akc on August 22, 2001, at 9:05:03
In reply to Re: JUST FOR TODAY, posted by Rosa on August 22, 2001, at 8:53:03
My mom is seriously ill. She almost died Monday because her lungs could not bring in enough oxygen. She was terrified. She has panics from time to time -- one of those times is when she goes to shower -- I think it is because it is hard for her to breath. I am glad, very so, that the doctor has not hesitated to give my mom xanex -- to hell with the fact that it is highly addictive. My mom is not going to be around much longer. I want her to be as comfortable as she can be. Her father died a very painful death (bone cancer in his spine) -- noone should have to endure that. You may be right that some elderly are overprescribed medicines. But many, many are not.
We have to be careful of labeling. Throwing out blanket statements without explanation or thought can be highly offensive. Twice in this thread this has happened. One such statement was towards posters on psycho-babble, then a statement towards the elderly. The majority of patients, be those on psychiatric meds or be the elderly, are being treated by caring, conscientious doctors who are not oversubscribing medications. While some patients may have addiction problems, remember an important principle of AA -- it is a program of attraction, not promotion.
AKC
Posted by Simcha on August 22, 2001, at 9:50:27
In reply to Re: JUST FOR TODAY, posted by akc on August 22, 2001, at 9:05:03
AKC,
>While some patients may have addiction problems, remember an important principle of AA -- it is a program of attraction, not promotion.
You read my mind!!! I could not have said it better myself.
We addicts who have depression have a double whammy. Sometimes our 12-step groups are less than supportive around my depression issues. I need to remember that my 12-step programs are for treating my addiction. My depression is best treated by my therapist and my psychiatrist. Sometimes it is necessary for me to keep the two illnesses seperate. I have to be careful when relying on help from 12-steppers around my depression. I make sure that my support is positive and reassuring about the choices I need to make regarding my treatment. For me it is a matter of using the proper tool for the proper job. And you can't get water from a dry well...
> My mom is seriously ill. She almost died Monday because her lungs could not bring in enough oxygen. She was terrified. She has panics from time to time -- one of those times is when she goes to shower -- I think it is because it is hard for her to breath. I am glad, very so, that the doctor has not hesitated to give my mom xanex -- to hell with the fact that it is highly addictive. My mom is not going to be around much longer. I want her to be as comfortable as she can be. Her father died a very painful death (bone cancer in his spine) -- noone should have to endure that. You may be right that some elderly are overprescribed medicines. But many, many are not.
>
> We have to be careful of labeling. Throwing out blanket statements without explanation or thought can be highly offensive. Twice in this thread this has happened. One such statement was towards posters on psycho-babble, then a statement towards the elderly. The majority of patients, be those on psychiatric meds or be the elderly, are being treated by caring, conscientious doctors who are not oversubscribing medications. While some patients may have addiction problems, remember an important principle of AA -- it is a program of attraction, not promotion.
>
> AKC
Posted by Jane D on August 22, 2001, at 10:09:31
In reply to Re: JUST FOR TODAY, posted by stjames on August 21, 2001, at 18:38:31
> > Not unless there was some other form of drug dependency.
> >
> > Rosa, Would you post the same thing on a board for insulin dependent diabetics?
>
> james here.....
>
> Then How is thei board different ?
>
> jamesJane here (I've always appreciated your adding that to long posts)
I think we ARE different. There seems to be a strong suggestion that some addictions are caused by an attempt to self medicate an underlying psychiatric illness. Years can go by in which you wonder why your friends can stop and you can't. Discovering effective meds can be a revelation but you can still be left with an addiction to the other drugs even though they are now unnecessary.
This doesn't seem to be the Narcotics Anonymous message (sponsors of that site) and I'm not sure of the motives of the original post. I'm choosing to give it a positive interpretation and think that it could help people who have chosen to stop using a drug stick with that decision. Still, I'd hope that in making a decision in the first place they would give more weight to sites like this one.
I don't want to mislead anyone by implying personal experience. I was lucky. For me it was only nicotine. But I've known people who weren't so lucky. I think you were luckier still in that you discovered meds so early. Often I am jealous of you for that. At other, more reasonable, times I am relieved and encouraged to know that I too may still be OK after another 20 years has gone by.
Jane
Posted by Jane D on August 22, 2001, at 10:38:15
In reply to Re: JUST FOR TODAY, posted by Rosa on August 22, 2001, at 6:47:00
> The 'Just For Today' post was meant to be helpful to those who have a problem with addiction to prescription medicines.
>
> Do you think that it is possible to be addicted to prescription medicine?Rosa,
Unfortunately I think you just proved st james right in his interpretation of your original post. Why would you expect to find "those with a problem with prescription medicine" here instead of on a diabetes board unless you think that all use is a problem?>
> Do you think drug abuse is a physical (chemical) or an emotional (social) problem?I also think you know the opinion on this of most posters. If this is the real issue you want to argue why not come out and say so?
Jane
Posted by Simcha on August 22, 2001, at 10:59:01
In reply to Re: JUST FOR TODAY, posted by Rosa on August 22, 2001, at 6:47:00
Here is a tasteless stab at humor from the folks at The Onion. It is a joke newspaper and this article happens to be on-target for this discussion:
Enjoy!!! ;-)
http://www.theonion.com/onion3729/bush_vows_to_wipe_out.html
> The 'Just For Today' post was meant to be helpful to those who have a problem with addiction to prescription medicines.
>
> Do you think that it is possible to be addicted to prescription medicine?
>
> Do you think drug abuse is a physical (chemical) or an emotional (social) problem?
Posted by Jane D on August 22, 2001, at 11:28:24
In reply to Re: JUST FOR TODAY All Funny! ;-), posted by Simcha on August 22, 2001, at 10:59:01
> Here is a tasteless stab at humor from the folks at The Onion. It is a joke newspaper and this article happens to be on-target for this discussion:
>
> Enjoy!!! ;-)
>
> http://www.theonion.com/onion3729/bush_vows_to_wipe_out.htmlThanks for the reminder that satire can beat all the calm argument in the world!
Jane
Posted by Duda on August 22, 2001, at 18:05:28
In reply to Re: JUST FOR TODAY, posted by triedit on August 22, 2001, at 8:01:24
I agree. Rosa's post doesn't seem to me to be a judgment on this site or the people using it. I myself have addiction problems and will be keeping her link on my mind.
> In Rosa's (semi?) defense...
>
> Not all doctors are on-track. We all have to be aware and responsible for our own use of medication. There are some psych drugs that are definitely addictive--in the physcial sense as well as the spiritual. Xanax is a prime example. Personally I believe that when we use this sort of drug INSTEAD OF doing the work of therapy and fixing our own lives, then there is an addiction issue. I'm in no way suggesting that we should all stop our drugs because of addiction.
>
> In the insulin sense, yes I believe that can be an addiction of sorts as well--my father uses his insulin more than he should because he refuses to alter his diet. If he would alter his diet he could reduce his use of his insulin. In the same light, if someone can 'fix' parts of thier life in therapy and get off some of the tranq's then that person may need to think about the addiction issue.
>
> Personally, I don't think Rosa meant any harm. And I think we all need to look at why we take our meds. Many, many people on this board need thier meds to live. But who's to say there isnt someone out there who found a doc who said "oh you are a little stressed out, take this for awhile". It happens every day.
Posted by Zo on August 22, 2001, at 18:46:38
In reply to Re: JUST FOR TODAY » triedit, posted by Simcha on August 22, 2001, at 8:23:47
Simcha, beautifully said! And am rolfing on that link.
Zo
> Depression for me has it's roots in a medical/physical condition. By doing therapy and the 12-steps I whacked away at the leaves and the branches of my depression. Until I got meds the roots were always there to grow another tree of depression. Now the meds have gotten to the roots and I can attend to my life more effectively. In my case, until something better comes along, I will not live without my medication. I have come to accept that. It is not addiction for me. It is a free choice to live a life worth living.
Posted by jason60 on August 22, 2001, at 21:17:47
In reply to JUST FOR TODAY, posted by Rosa on August 21, 2001, at 7:06:06
Rosa
I have had very serious substance abuse problems
In the past and go to AA meeting and have been to NA and I work the steps. I could care less if I
Am addicted to prescribed medications. I have
Not been prescribed any medication that have
Caused me to crash my car, assault a person,
Spend all my money on drug deals, are end up
In jail(like alcohol and street drugs have). The prescribed medications I take
Help me from going back to my old alcoholic, drug
Addict ways. Thank for the suggestion but the
People on this board have serious psychological
Problems that NA just will not fix.> If you think you may have a problem with prescribed medications, the Just For Today Meditation may be for you.
>
> Rosa
>
> You can read the JFT online at http://www.jft.ca/jftmeditation
Posted by stjames on August 23, 2001, at 0:09:14
In reply to Re: JUST FOR TODAY, posted by jason60 on August 22, 2001, at 21:17:47
If you think you may have a problem with prescribed medications, the Just For Today Meditation may be for you.
james here....
How about this, Rosa. I'll meditate on this "I like my meds, my meds are good. I can leave the house and hold a job because of meds.
james
Posted by Zo on August 23, 2001, at 1:30:06
In reply to Re: JUST FOR TODAY, posted by stjames on August 23, 2001, at 0:09:14
Posted by Rosa on August 23, 2001, at 8:01:38
In reply to Re: JUST FOR TODAY, posted by jason60 on August 22, 2001, at 21:17:47
In my early twenties, I was prescribed Valium ...
I kept renewing the prescription ... while continuing to drink alcohol. I did this for nearly fifteen years ... I also took Benzedrine for awhile. When I returned from overseas my doctor refused to refill my prescription ...
After talking to the doctor, he said, "you don't need a tranquilizer, you need an antidepressant and changed my medication.
Shortly after that I decided to quit drinking to see if it was really a problem ... it wasn't as easy as I thought it would be. I was a problem drinker, I drank when I had a "problem". It is still a temptation. I have attended A.A. ever since.
I have been on and off antidepressants since then ... Now, I only take them when I need them ... I only take them at night. (Trazadone) My doctor recommended taking them earlier in the evening or cutting them in half because I said I felt so bad in the morning after taking them.
Prescription drugs have been more of a problem than alcohol ever was.
Two years ago, I finally got up enough courage to go to N.A. I got there by using and abusing prescription drugs.
Today, I am extremely careful what drugs I take.
I have bradycardia (slow heart rate) and passed out during a heart cath. There are a number of heart medications I cannot take.
I also take medications for high blood pressure. There are drug interactions between heart medications and blood pressure medication.
That's my story.
Rosa
-------------------------
> I have had very serious substance abuse problems
> In the past and go to AA meeting and have been to NA and I work the steps. I could care less if I
> Am addicted to prescribed medications. I have
> Not been prescribed any medication that have
> Caused me to crash my car, assault a person,
> Spend all my money on drug deals, are end up
> In jail(like alcohol and street drugs have). The prescribed medications I take
> Help me from going back to my old alcoholic, drug
> Addict ways. Thank for the suggestion but the
> People on this board have serious psychological
> Problems that NA just will not fix.
>
>
>
> > If you think you may have a problem with prescribed medications, the Just For Today Meditation may be for you.
> >
> > Rosa
> >
> > You can read the JFT online at http://www.jft.ca/jftmeditation
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