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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Edward on August 6, 2001, at 14:49:06
This is something I've been wondering about.
I used to smoke pot for a while. I don't need to describe how it made me feel, except that it turned a dull, meaningless world into a bright, beautiful one. Weed made me truly happy for the first time since I was about 11.
However, after a couple of months of daily, heavy smoking, I started experiencing something different. I would smoke up, have the normal, sparkly, joyful experience for the first couple of minutes, and then, instead of the experience intensifying, the world would quickly turn greyer, literally, like when you adjust the colour control on your t.v. set. Depression quickly set in afterwards. I didn't feel stoned, just bored, restless and miserable. Time seemed to slow down, and I could do nothing to make it pass. None of the normal pleasures of ganja, such as increased enjoyment of music and powerful emotions were apparent. After a several times like this, I gave up, as I was becoming severly depressed. A couple of suicide attempts later and I was an inpatient at the hospital I had been attending daily. After a couple of months I am virtually my old self.
I can't find any research to suggest that cannabis causes depression. I am confused that at first with large doses I used to be pleasantly and overwhelmingly stoned for hours and feel refreshed in the morning, whereas now I have the above experience followed by long hangovers spent in bed wishing to die. Nobody I know has the same experience. I know individuals who have smoked similar amounts over much longer periods that me without these constant unpleasant trips. Is it possible that I was more depressed anyway, and the weed was just intensifying it? Has anyone else experienced this? Will I ever be able to smoke again (perhaps in more moderate doses)? I was taking fluvoxamine at the time, could this have affected things?
Thanks,
Ed
Posted by Stef on August 6, 2001, at 15:10:06
In reply to Cannabis and depression, posted by Edward on August 6, 2001, at 14:49:06
> This is something I've been wondering about.
>
> I used to smoke pot for a while. I don't need to describe how it made me feel, except that it turned a dull, meaningless world into a bright, beautiful one. Weed made me truly happy for the first time since I was about 11.
>
> However, after a couple of months of daily, heavy smoking, I started experiencing something different. I would smoke up, have the normal, sparkly, joyful experience for the first couple of minutes, and then, instead of the experience intensifying, the world would quickly turn greyer, literally, like when you adjust the colour control on your t.v. set. Depression quickly set in afterwards. I didn't feel stoned, just bored, restless and miserable. Time seemed to slow down, and I could do nothing to make it pass. None of the normal pleasures of ganja, such as increased enjoyment of music and powerful emotions were apparent. After a several times like this, I gave up, as I was becoming severly depressed. A couple of suicide attempts later and I was an inpatient at the hospital I had been attending daily. After a couple of months I am virtually my old self.
>
> I can't find any research to suggest that cannabis causes depression. I am confused that at first with large doses I used to be pleasantly and overwhelmingly stoned for hours and feel refreshed in the morning, whereas now I have the above experience followed by long hangovers spent in bed wishing to die. Nobody I know has the same experience. I know individuals who have smoked similar amounts over much longer periods that me without these constant unpleasant trips. Is it possible that I was more depressed anyway, and the weed was just intensifying it? Has anyone else experienced this? Will I ever be able to smoke again (perhaps in more moderate doses)? I was taking fluvoxamine at the time, could this have affected things?
>
> Thanks,
>
> EdTheoretically pot is considered a downer in medical circles. But if you get past the stigma and paranoia you will find that aside from some common aspects of it,it's affects on people's body chemistry vary widely.
It also depends on amount used and frequency.
You may be using it too often,and now your body is changing it's reaction to it.
You should have periods where you lay off for some time and then go back. Or just have more time elapse before partaking.
Contrary to what many doctors have advised,it is a great source of pain relief,both mentally and physically for some people.
You may need to cut back and see if that helps.
Keep us updated!
Cheers,
Posted by pellmell on August 6, 2001, at 16:43:37
In reply to Re: Cannabis and depression, posted by Stef on August 6, 2001, at 15:10:06
I'm on Effexor XR, 150mg.
For the first time a few weeks ago I smoked enough to feel the effects. I was constantly supressing giggles, and maybe the music in the background had a bit more color. Everything around me had the texture of something filmed with 70's technology, which was kinda cool.
But the most pronounced effects were terrible dry mouth (now I know where the phrase "cotton mouth" comes from) and seriously slowed thinking. After the initial effects wore off, I felt depressed and lethargic for the rest of the day.
Has anyone else had a not-so-good experience with the stuff? Anyone have any experiences smoking while on Effexor? I know Cam W. mentioned a week or so ago that his friends on Effexor who smoke up say it takes more to get anywhere and that the high isn't as intense, but he didn't say their experiences went from good to blah.
Not for any particularly urgent reason, I'm curious about whether I might have the same reaction if I weren't taking an antidepressant. My girlfriend smokes a few times a month and thinks it's a wonderful thing, and I'm a little disappointed that I can't share that with her.
-pm
Posted by grapebubblegum on August 6, 2001, at 17:47:35
In reply to Re: Cannabis and depression (and Effexor), posted by pellmell on August 6, 2001, at 16:43:37
I'll leave this up to the more scientifically-minded here, but my doctor says that marijuana is a dopamine down-regulator.
I cannot interpret that; I'll leave it up to someone who understands neurochemistry.
Posted by MM on August 6, 2001, at 17:59:07
In reply to Re: Cannabis and depression (and Effexor), posted by grapebubblegum on August 6, 2001, at 17:47:35
I was a pot head for a few years (no I don't think cops can do anything about confessing to past use, only future purchases) and it was fun (not that I ever had any profound experiences. It was always something I could live without, and I couldn't understand the way some people feen for it), but gradually it became less and less enjoyable, and I started to get more paranoid, and more anxious and more socially inhibited. I would get panicky sometimes too or just want to eat and go to sleep. After enough bad experiences, I decided to stay away from it. If it works for you, have fun, but I think that stef was right when she said it's affects vary greatly (you also have to consider what quality it is) with people's different chemistry. Some people can smoke insane amounts and then go to their job, or whatever but I can barely tie my shoes sober anymore.
Posted by mickey on August 6, 2001, at 20:06:25
In reply to Re: Cannabis and depression (and Effexor), posted by MM on August 6, 2001, at 17:59:07
People who seem to be at ease with themselves, are not conflicted internally, mentally or emotionally, seem to handle pot well. And it stands to reason that if a person is troubled the high will intensify those troubled feelings.
Posted by pellmell on August 6, 2001, at 20:34:15
In reply to Re: Cannabis and depression (and Effexor), posted by mickey on August 6, 2001, at 20:06:25
> People who seem to be at ease with themselves, are not conflicted internally, mentally or emotionally, seem to handle pot well. And it stands to reason that if a person is troubled the high will intensify those troubled feelings.
>I've always been under the impression that there isn't much about pot to "handle," at least not any more than there is with alcohol (which I handle pretty well).
I see your point, but I think it's probably more applicable to stuff like LSD. Not that I haven't seen my share of "troubled" frat boys who've left their kicked kegs for the streets...
Fun fact: PCP is actually a neuroprotective drug. (Except, of course, for the part where you slip into psychosis and decide to test the hardness of your skull).
-pm
Posted by Stef on August 6, 2001, at 21:36:16
In reply to Re: Cannabis and depression (and Effexor), posted by pellmell on August 6, 2001, at 16:43:37
> I'm on Effexor XR, 150mg.
>
> For the first time a few weeks ago I smoked enough to feel the effects. I was constantly supressing giggles, and maybe the music in the background had a bit more color. Everything around me had the texture of something filmed with 70's technology, which was kinda cool.
>
> But the most pronounced effects were terrible dry mouth (now I know where the phrase "cotton mouth" comes from) and seriously slowed thinking. After the initial effects wore off, I felt depressed and lethargic for the rest of the day.
>
> Has anyone else had a not-so-good experience with the stuff? Anyone have any experiences smoking while on Effexor? I know Cam W. mentioned a week or so ago that his friends on Effexor who smoke up say it takes more to get anywhere and that the high isn't as intense, but he didn't say their experiences went from good to blah.
>
> Not for any particularly urgent reason, I'm curious about whether I might have the same reaction if I weren't taking an antidepressant. My girlfriend smokes a few times a month and thinks it's a wonderful thing, and I'm a little disappointed that I can't share that with her.
>
> -pm
I am on effexor and I smoke,so what I wrote about were my experiences as well.
No problems at all.
Cheers,
Posted by afatchic on August 7, 2001, at 10:13:41
In reply to Re: Cannabis and depression (and Effexor), posted by Stef on August 6, 2001, at 21:36:16
I'm on Effexor and I've only smoked once while taking it. My experience was positive but I only obtained a mild effect. I attributed this to the quality of the herb. When I came down I felt deliciously mellow. After 15 years in the Air Force, being able to smoke on rare occasions seems like sweet forbidden fruit.
> > I'm on Effexor XR, 150mg.
> >
> > For the first time a few weeks ago I smoked enough to feel the effects. I was constantly supressing giggles, and maybe the music in the background had a bit more color. Everything around me had the texture of something filmed with 70's technology, which was kinda cool.
> >
> > But the most pronounced effects were terrible dry mouth (now I know where the phrase "cotton mouth" comes from) and seriously slowed thinking. After the initial effects wore off, I felt depressed and lethargic for the rest of the day.
> >
> > Has anyone else had a not-so-good experience with the stuff? Anyone have any experiences smoking while on Effexor? I know Cam W. mentioned a week or so ago that his friends on Effexor who smoke up say it takes more to get anywhere and that the high isn't as intense, but he didn't say their experiences went from good to blah.
> >
> > Not for any particularly urgent reason, I'm curious about whether I might have the same reaction if I weren't taking an antidepressant. My girlfriend smokes a few times a month and thinks it's a wonderful thing, and I'm a little disappointed that I can't share that with her.
> >
> > -pm
>
>
> I am on effexor and I smoke,so what I wrote about were my experiences as well.
> No problems at all.
> Cheers,
Posted by SalArmy4me on August 7, 2001, at 12:10:08
In reply to Cannabis and depression, posted by Edward on August 6, 2001, at 14:49:06
Posted by pellmell on August 7, 2001, at 15:14:09
In reply to Re: Cannabis and Mental Disturbances » Edward, posted by SalArmy4me on August 7, 2001, at 12:10:08
Thanks, Sal! I got the answer to my question towards the bottom of that page:
---
Depressive ReactionsIn novice marijuana users, rarely in regular users, marijuana may precipitate reactive or neurotic depressions. The majority of depressive reactions are of short duration and end spontaneously, as noted in studies by Weil (1970) and Kemp (1970).
----pm
> http://www.vh.org/Providers/Conferences/CPS/30.html
Posted by pellmell on August 7, 2001, at 15:25:43
In reply to Re: Cannabis and depression (and Effexor), posted by mickey on August 6, 2001, at 20:06:25
mickey,
Hey, it seems you might be right about that intensification thing. I was asking for advice after all...I'm sorry I was so dismissive in my last reply. < :\
From http://www.vh.org/Providers/Conferences/CPS/30.html
---
Ablon and Goodwin administered oral THC doses of 5 mg/d to 20 mg bid to under double blind conditions to 8 unipolar and 5 bipolar patients. Dysphoric reactions were noted in 75% of the unipolar patients but in only 20% of the bipolar patients (p< 0.10). This compared to a 33% dysphoria rate in normal volunteers. The authors hypothesized that the THC acted as a "mood intensifier" and best ought to be avoided in patients with unipolar affective illness (Ablon and Goodwin 1974).
----pm
> People who seem to be at ease with themselves, are not conflicted internally, mentally or emotionally, seem to handle pot well. And it stands to reason that if a person is troubled the high will intensify those troubled feelings.
Posted by mickey on August 7, 2001, at 15:41:14
In reply to Re: Cannabis and depression (and Effexor), posted by pellmell on August 7, 2001, at 15:25:43
Thanks Pellmell. I have noticed in the past that people with high anxiety either had bad experiences or just would not smoke anymore, or intuitively knew never to give it a try.
This is the end of the thread.
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