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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by adamie on August 4, 2001, at 22:09:20
After some reading I have decided to take Milk Thistle which is a herbal medicine. I need it to detoxify and repair my liver due to a drug accutane which caused various problems for me. One of which was severe suicidal depression which is now moderate depression after 2 months. With this problem I have also had liver problems. My skin turned very yellow 2 months ago due to the accutane which I of course stopped (perhaps just in time because if the depression got worse i dont think I COULD HAVE MANAGED). Now my skin is more normal but still a noticably not the same color as my skin normally has been! It is more yellow. My skin used to be peachy. The skin itself isn't the problem. But what this yellowing of skin condition is... is Jaundice. A condition which involves Liver Damage. And from the little I have read so far could even be responsible for neorological disorders. Perhaps it is related to my depression. 'perhaps'.Regardless if it is or not I need to repair my liver and get rid of this condition is a direct cause of liver dysfunction.
I am on no anti depressants right now but I am planning to try Wellbutrin in 6 days. Finally my doctor will be back then.
But I need to try Milk Thistle or something else to cure my jaundice and to repair my liver.
Can milk thistle and Wellbutrin be taken together? please reply. If not then what can I do? I need to solve both of these problems.
Posted by SalArmy4me on August 4, 2001, at 22:35:20
In reply to Okay to take Milk Thistle with Wellbutrin?, posted by adamie on August 4, 2001, at 22:09:20
Giese, Lori A. MSN, RN, ARNP-C, CGRN, Department Editor. Complementary Healthcare Practices: Milk Thistle and the Treatment of Hepatitis. Gastroenterology Nursing. 24(2):95-97, March/April 2001:
"Silymarin (milk thistle) has few contraindications and no severe adverse effects noted after centuries of use. It is advisable to start at low doses with a gradual increase to improve tolerability. If started at full strength, a few patients may notice a laxative effect, irritability, or headache. It may take up to three months to produce the full beneficial effect. Pregnancy and allergy to the daisy/composite family are the only contraindications. Silymarin may also inhibit lipid peroxidation with butyrophenomes and phenothiazines and may antagonize other herbs such as yohimbe and phentolanine (Palasciano & Portinaceass, 1994)..."Pepping, Joseph PharmD. Milk thistle: Silybum marianum. American Journal of Health-System Pharmacy. 56(12):1195-1197, June 15, 1999:
"Drug interactions. No adverse drug interactions involving milk thistle extract have been reported. Beneficial interactions, observed in rat and mouse studies, include a decrease in hepatotoxicity from butyrophenones, phenothiazines, acetaminophen, halothane, and alcohol and decreased nephrotoxicity from cisplatin...."Efficacy:
Hatcher, Tiffani MSN, CRNP. The Proverbial Herb. American Journal of Nursing. 101(2):36-43, February 2001:
"There are some reports in the scientific literature regarding the effectiveness of herbal therapy in the treatment of a variety of clinical disorders, though few studies are conclusive. For example, the NCCAM has recently undertaken a comprehensive literature review summarizing clinical studies of milk thistle in humans. The researchers found that in four of six studies of milk thistle's use for chronic alcoholic liver disease there was significant improvement in at least one measure of liver function when compared with placebo, but the studies showed no difference between groups in other outcome measures. The NCCAM report concludes that "available evidence is not sufficient to suggest whether milk thistle may be more effective for some liver diseases than others or if effectiveness might be related to duration of therapy or chronicity and severity of liver disease..."
Posted by Cam W. on August 4, 2001, at 22:43:09
In reply to Okay to take Milk Thistle with Wellbutrin?, posted by adamie on August 4, 2001, at 22:09:20
adamie - I know of no drug-herb interactions between Wellbutrin and milk thistle, but there are no scientific studies that have been done (that I know of). With the lack of information in the scientific literature, it may be prudent to take the two drugs (yes, I consider herbs as drugs) at least 2 hours apart (ie. do not take then at the same time), just as an extra precaution.
Also, let your doctor know that you are taking milk thistle with the Wellbutrin, so he/she can monitor you while taking the drugs together.
I hope that this is of some help. - Cam
Posted by adamie on August 4, 2001, at 22:52:02
In reply to Re: Okay to take Milk Thistle with Wellbutrin? » adamie, posted by Cam W. on August 4, 2001, at 22:43:09
> adamie - I know of no drug-herb interactions between Wellbutrin and milk thistle, but there are no scientific studies that have been done (that I know of). With the lack of information in the scientific literature, it may be prudent to take the two drugs (yes, I consider herbs as drugs) at least 2 hours apart (ie. do not take then at the same time), just as an extra precaution.
>
> Also, let your doctor know that you are taking milk thistle with the Wellbutrin, so he/she can monitor you while taking the drugs together.
>
> I hope that this is of some help. - CamWellbutrin has to be taken 2 times a day I think, and milk thistle maybe 2 times a day also. so I guess I can manage it.
milk thistle is okay to take with vitamins? I assume it is but I am not too knowledgable on the subject.
Also is there anything else more effective for liver damage and something that can work faster? Milk thistle seems like it could take a bit. thanks for replying.
Posted by SalArmy4me on August 4, 2001, at 23:09:15
In reply to Anything more effective for repairing liver? » Cam W., posted by adamie on August 4, 2001, at 22:52:02
Rosen, Amy.. Homeopathy, Other Forms of Alternative Medicine Sources of Ongoing Debate Among Physicians, Patients. CMAJ: Canadian Medical Association Journal. 152(11):1887-1889, June 1, 1995:
"...One of the natural herbs Hunt recommends is dandelion, which she says stimulates the liver and kidneys, two important parts of the body's cleansing mechanism..."
Posted by Cam W. on August 4, 2001, at 23:10:34
In reply to Anything more effective for repairing liver? » Cam W., posted by adamie on August 4, 2001, at 22:52:02
adamie - If there was anything more effective than milk thistle, don't you think all of those drug-addicted, hard drinking rock stars and actors (eg. Larry Hagman, David Crosby, John Phillips, Phil Lesh) would have been taking them, instead of ending up having liver transplants? :^)
Personally, I don't think that milk thistle works all that well, but it is better than nothing.
As for the vitamins, you can take them with the milk thistle, rather than the Wellbutrin; just because Wellbutrin is metabolized by the liver's cytochrome-P450 system and there would be more of a chance (albeit very, very slight) of an interaction between the Wellbutrin and certain vitamins. Besides, people take handfuls of vitamins and herbs together, all of the time and I have never heard of a problem with milk thistle and any vitamin. I know this is anecdotal, but hey, it's the best advice I can give, at the moment (ie. it is the way I would take the combination).
Good luck, and monitor for any adverse effects and be sure to report them to your doctor. - Cam
Posted by Cam W. on August 4, 2001, at 23:52:41
In reply to Re: Anything more effective for repairing liver? » adamie, posted by SalArmy4me on August 4, 2001, at 23:09:15
Sal - Dandelion root only "stimulates" the liver, while milk thistle has been shown to "regenerate" the liver. - Cam
Posted by jason60 on August 5, 2001, at 8:04:34
In reply to Re: Anything more effective for repairing liver? » SalArmy4me, posted by Cam W. on August 4, 2001, at 23:52:41
adamie,
SAM-e is supposed to be very effective in repairing liver damage. SAM-e is also very good for depression for many people and can be bought
With no prescription.
Posted by adamie on August 5, 2001, at 11:04:46
In reply to Re: Anything more effective for repairing liver?, posted by jason60 on August 5, 2001, at 8:04:34
hi Jason. I have taken some sam-e before. At the highest recommended dose for severe depression it didn't help (perhaps minorly so I didn't notice) for the 1 week I took it. I know that is a short time but I cant afford to buy sam-e anymore. I haven't worked before. I am 18. And I was planning to start working, I was really eager to make money but the depression struck me. While it is still around in it's moderate severity i really dont feel comfertable to work. I could work but it would be difficult. I dont feel stable enough. so I can only afford to buy cheap stuff.
my parents of course dont want to buy sam-e anymore. so I will just have to try to stick with other things.
regarding sam-e.... it may seem unlikely but the very first time I took it my depression was getting a lot better. When I took sam-e for 4 days at a medium dose before running out. then there was no such effect other times when I had sam-e. So perhaps it was just a coincidence. Or perhaps sam-e worked once and then didn't have the same effect.
thanks for replying. I will probably purchase some milk thistle today. it's good to know that sam-e would have more uses for me. perhaps when I get more money in the distant future I will try it once more. This time for a longer period of time. take care
Posted by stjames on August 5, 2001, at 12:07:22
In reply to Okay to take Milk Thistle with Wellbutrin?, posted by adamie on August 4, 2001, at 22:09:20
I think it is very important to get a liver function test. Have you had one ?
james
Posted by adamie on August 5, 2001, at 16:26:08
In reply to Re: Okay to take Milk Thistle with Wellbutrin?, posted by stjames on August 5, 2001, at 12:07:22
no I haven't. when I told my mom before about concerns of liver damage she just typically called me crazy.
How is this test done? next time I go to my therapist I think I should ask. I am wondering if I am simply having jaundice without possible serious liver damage. I had regular blood tests before which turned out kind of okay. But I guess those cannot show if one's liver is not functioning properly.
Posted by afatchic on August 5, 2001, at 19:58:32
In reply to Re: Okay to take Milk Thistle with Wellbutrin? » stjames, posted by adamie on August 5, 2001, at 16:26:08
Adamie,
St James is right (as usual). If you are concerned about your liver, you need to ask your doctor to run liver function tests (LFTs) for you. It's just a simple blood test. Also, you should probably tested for hepatitis B & C. If you haven't already been vaccinated for hepatitis B, you need to be. Everyone should be vaccinated for hepatitis B.
afatchic
> no I haven't. when I told my mom before about concerns of liver damage she just typically called me crazy.
>
> How is this test done? next time I go to my therapist I think I should ask. I am wondering if I am simply having jaundice without possible serious liver damage. I had regular blood tests before which turned out kind of okay. But I guess those cannot show if one's liver is not functioning properly.
Posted by stjames on August 5, 2001, at 20:00:49
In reply to Re: Okay to take Milk Thistle with Wellbutrin? » stjames, posted by adamie on August 5, 2001, at 16:26:08
> How is this test done? next time I go to my therapist I think I should ask. I am wondering if I am simply having jaundice without possible serious liver damage. I had regular blood tests before which turned out kind of okay. But I guess those cannot show if one's liver is not functioning properly.
james here....
Yes they can, actually liver function tests are blood tests. The liver cleans up blood, after all.
Yellowed skin may or may not indicate liver problems, only with a blood test do you really know you have liver problems.James
Posted by adamie on August 5, 2001, at 20:47:52
In reply to Re: Okay to take Milk Thistle with Wellbutrin?, posted by stjames on August 5, 2001, at 20:00:49
I have had a blood test 2 weeks ago. And an old blood test from 2 months ago when my skin was also yellow. neighter of the people who ran the tests said anything was wrong...
so this means I DONT have any liver damage? please reply. since a liver function test is a blood test... this means any blood test can show liver damage? and if it doesn't then it means I have none? thanks for replying. so basically these normal blood tests I took should show whether or not i have liver damage? I will find out soon what my new tests shows.
Posted by Andy123 on August 5, 2001, at 20:55:24
In reply to Re: Okay to take Milk Thistle with Wellbutrin? » stjames, posted by adamie on August 5, 2001, at 20:47:52
> so this means I DONT have any liver damage? please reply. since a liver function test is a blood test... this means any blood test can show liver damage? and if it doesn't then it means I have none? thanks for replying. so basically these normal blood tests I took should show whether or not i have liver damage? I will find out soon what my new tests shows.
The blood tests with accutane are usually for high blood lipids and the like. I dont think they test liver function as a rule with the accutane.
Posted by stjames on August 6, 2001, at 1:43:06
In reply to Re: Okay to take Milk Thistle with Wellbutrin? » stjames, posted by adamie on August 5, 2001, at 20:47:52
> I have had a blood test 2 weeks ago. And an old blood test from 2 months ago when my skin was also yellow. neighter of the people who ran the tests said anything was wrong...
>Short answer is "ask your doc if you have liver problems". Also read:
http://www.rezulinnewsletter.com/liver_function_test_of_liver_enzymes.htm
This is the end of the thread.
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