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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Cindylou on May 1, 2001, at 19:23:55
Hello all
Karen -- I wasn't sure how else to reach you... you responded to a couple of my posts, stating that I could be bipolar ...
Now that I am completely off the Effexor, I am seeing more behaviors that support your theory -- I am either very agitated and anxious, or depressed and down, on the verge of tears. Rarely in the middle of these extremes. (But no "mania" like I've always heard described -- extreme highs, spending sprees, up all night, etc.)
So, just looking for some advice from someone who seems to have been in my place before.
Have you heard of Manerix? A reversible MAOI available only in Canada (my doctor mentioned this to me last visit). Are MAOIs helpful for bipolar? What other medications could be worth looking into?
I am currently on Wellbutrin and Klonapin, but they are barely keeping me afloat these days.
Thank you so much for your help.
-cindy
Posted by SalArmy4me on May 2, 2001, at 0:34:48
In reply to Question for KarenB, Sal, and others! -Bipolar?, posted by Cindylou on May 1, 2001, at 19:23:55
You mentioned being agitated and I thought perhaps you could benefit greatly from an anti-anxiety agent to calm you down, like buspirone (which would help with the depressive symptoms too at higher doses).
Posted by Cindylou on May 2, 2001, at 11:43:51
In reply to Re: Question for KarenB, Sal, and others! -Bipolar? » Cindylou, posted by SalArmy4me on May 2, 2001, at 0:34:48
Is "buspirone" Buspar? I tried that and it made me extremely foggy headed and tired, like the SSRIs. Thanks, though!
> You mentioned being agitated and I thought perhaps you could benefit greatly from an anti-anxiety agent to calm you down, like buspirone (which would help with the depressive symptoms too at higher doses).
Posted by SalArmy4me on May 2, 2001, at 14:03:13
In reply to Re: Question for KarenB, Sal, and others! -Bipolar?, posted by Cindylou on May 2, 2001, at 11:43:51
Maybe you were taking too much Buspar; most people find it very tolerable.
A good alternative to BuSpar would be Neurontin.
> Is "buspirone" Buspar? I tried that and it made me extremely foggy headed and tired, like the SSRIs. Thanks, though!
>
> > You mentioned being agitated and I thought perhaps you could benefit greatly from an anti-anxiety agent to calm you down, like buspirone (which would help with the depressive symptoms too at higher doses).
Posted by KarenB on May 7, 2001, at 1:06:32
In reply to Re: Question for KarenB, Sal, and others! -Bipolar? » Cindylou, posted by SalArmy4me on May 2, 2001, at 14:03:13
Cindylou,
Sorry it has taken me a few days to get back to you - I haven't been on the board for a while. Someone ignored me and I got my feelings hurt. Waaah waaaah waaaaah...
About mania: My manias are not characterized by wild spending sprees (I choose to call them "mini sprees":). I have NEVER stayed up all night, until one night just recently when I had a bad reaction, adjusting to Lamictal. I simply get agitated, impatient, noise sensitive, completely irrational and angry. A migraine usually is part of the picture. I feel as if I am "amping out," and can't stand to be in my own body. I can shift from feeling great to crying within minutes, when I am rapid cycling. My depressions are deep, frightening and the suicidal thoughts just will not go away, though I don't believe in suicide.
It was not always this bad - I just turned 40 but I do remember times of deep depression as early as my teenage years. I self medicated then with alcohol and other drugs. I didn't even recognize the manias then because at that point they felt pretty good.
As my illness progressed, during my manic times, I was witty, smart and moving faster than everyone around me. I was the top sales rep in my company. Then depression would strike and I would drive around aimlessly, not wanting to speak to my clients. I almost lost my job, only to make a comeback and set new company sales records. On this roller coaster, I left in my wake a series of very bad, shortlived relationships. Without going into detail, it was a wild, dangerous ride.
All that to tell you, I am most assuredly Bipolar.
It has taken me years of misdiagnoses to get where I am today, which, for the most part, is STABLE. I finally went (through the help of a friend) to see an excellent mood disorder specialist who gave me a correct diagnosis. Then, I fired my old psych doc and replaced him with a doctor who is just wonderful. Sometimes it's what you have to do.
My current med mix is: Trileptal 600mg a.m., 1200mg p.m. (a mood stabilizer), Lamictal, 50mg a.m. and 50mg at around 2 p.m. (another mood stabilizer, with antidepressant activity), Geodon 40mg 3x a day (an new, atypical antipsychotic used in my case for ruminating thoughts)and a low dose of Xanax as needed (for any anxiety and breakthrough mania). The more stable I feel from these meds, the less I am needing the Xanax but I think the other three are keepers. One thing I do believe is that a bipolar patient will not do well until on the right mood stabilizers. Antidepressants alone may only amplify and speed up the cycling.
All I can say is, it feels good to be sane, rational, calm and able to handle what difficulties come along without FREAKING OUT. Suicidal thoughts no longer plague me. I don't have a broken record of bad thoughts playing in my mind, over and over again, on a daily basis. I am even fairly sure I will be OK next week, so I can make plans and not have to break them. Life is really good. Is this what normal feels like?
My advice is this: Find a great doctor. Not just an OK one or a good one...a GREAT one. Do everything you have to do to find this person. Then, stick with them, tell them everything and trust them. But, make sure they are the right one first.
BTW, I found Buspar to be utterly worthless. But...everybody's different.
Best wishes to you.
Karen
Posted by KarenB on May 7, 2001, at 14:13:14
In reply to Question for KarenB, Sal, and others! -Bipolar?, posted by Cindylou on May 1, 2001, at 19:23:55
> Hello all
>
> Karen -- I wasn't sure how else to reach you... you responded to a couple of my posts, stating that I could be bipolar ...
>
> Now that I am completely off the Effexor, I am seeing more behaviors that support your theory -- I am either very agitated and anxious, or depressed and down, on the verge of tears. Rarely in the middle of these extremes. (But no "mania" like I've always heard described -- extreme highs, spending sprees, up all night, etc.)
>
> So, just looking for some advice from someone who seems to have been in my place beforeCindylou,
Sorry it has taken me a few days to get back to you - I haven't been on the board for a while. Someone ignored me and I got my feelings hurt. Waaah waaaah waaaaah...
About mania: My manias are not characterized by wild spending sprees (I choose to call them "mini sprees":). I have NEVER stayed up all night, until one night just recently when I had a bad reaction, adjusting to Lamictal. I simply get agitated, impatient, noise sensitive, completely irrational and angry. A migraine usually is part of the picture. I feel as if I am "amping out," and can't stand to be in my own body. I can shift from feeling great to crying within minutes, when I am rapid cycling. My depressions are deep, frightening and the suicidal thoughts just will not go away, though I don't believe in suicide.
It was not always this bad - I just turned 40 but I do remember times of deep depression as early as my teenage years. I self medicated then with alcohol and other drugs. I didn't recognize the manias for what they were then, because at that point they felt pretty good.
As my illness progressed, during my manic times, I was witty, smart (at least I thought so) and moving faster than everyone around me. I was top sales rep in my company and doing well. Then depression would strike and I would drive around aimlessly, not wanting to speak to my clients. I almost lost my job, only to make a comeback and set new company sales records. While I was on this roller coaster, I left in my wake a series of shortlived relationships and damage. It was a wild, dangerous ride.
All that to tell you, I am most assuredly Bipolar.
It has taken me years of misdiagnoses to get where I am today, which, for the most part, is STABLE. I finally went (through the help of a friend) to see an excellent mood disorder specialist who gave me a correct diagnosis. Then, I fired my old, pompous psych doc and replaced him with a doctor who is just wonderful. Sometimes it's what you have to do.
My current med mix is: Trileptal 600mg a.m., 1200mg p.m. (a mood stabilizer), Lamictal, 50mg a.m. and 50mg at around 2 p.m. (another mood stabilizer, with antidepressant activity), Geodon 40mg 3x a day (an new, atypical antipsychotic used in my case for ruminating thoughts)and a low dose of Xanax as needed (for any anxiety and breakthrough mania). The more stable I feel from these meds, the less I am needing the Xanax but I think the other three are keepers. One thing I do believe is that a bipolar patient will not do well until on the right mood stabilizers. Antidepressants alone may only amplify and speed up the cycling.
All I can say is, it feels good to be sane, rational, calm and able to handle what difficulties come along without FREAKING OUT. Suicidal thoughts no longer plague me. I don't have a broken record of bad thoughts playing in my mind, over and over again, on a daily basis. I am even fairly sure I will be OK next week, so I can make plans and not have to break them. I don't have migraines. Life is really good. Is this what normal feels like?
My advice is this: Find a great doctor. Not just an OK one or a good one...a GREAT one. Do everything you have to do to find this person. Then, stick with them, tell them everything they need to know and trust them. But, make sure they are the right one first.
BTW, I found Buspar to be utterly worthless. But, like they say...everybody's different.
Best wishes for your health.
Karen
Posted by Cindylou on May 8, 2001, at 12:56:41
In reply to Re: Bipolar? » Cindylou, posted by KarenB on May 7, 2001, at 14:13:14
Karen,
Thanks so much for responding and sharing your story with me. From what you describe, and from what I've been reading and feeling, I don't seem to be bipolar -- it seems my anxiety is part of the depression; I don't really have "cycling" like you mentioned.We do have a lot in common with the depression, however. Mine started when I was 13 years old, and I was constantly down, feeling out of place, writing melodramatic poetry, and contemplating suicide. I didn't have highs during this period until I too began drinking to medicate myself, along with finding guy after guy to latch onto and get into intense relationships with (always ending up disasters, of course.) During the drinking and the initial "infatuation" stages of the relationships, I would definitely experience "highs" that could be described as manias, I think -- but once I quit drinking, got counseling, and got into a stable relationship (married now for 6 years), those mania-type feelings subsided.
Then again, at this point I was on medication -- usually an SSRI like Zoloft + Wellbutrin to help offset the exhaustion from the SSRI. So who knows -- maybe they were evening out my moods? ...
I am now holding my own on Wellbutrin alone, (quit Effexor about a month ago due to bad side effects -- but that's a whole other story!) and plan to add St. John's Wort (just for grins) to see if it helps bring me to a better place (maybe an 8 on a scale of 1 to 10, rather than the 5 or 6 I'm at now.)
If that doesn't work, my doctor wants me to try Manerix, a reversible MAOI available in Canada -- we'll see what happens. Obviously, she is not thrilled about the St. John's Wort, but I just have to try it to see for myself. My nutritionist is pushing it -- she uses "standardized formats with chemists in the labs rather than herbologists," etc. etc. so it seems pretty safe. I've tried meds for so many years that I just have to see what this "plant" might do. I'm not optimistic -- I know all the negatives about it, and that it's really only for mild depression -- but, who knows?
Sorry for the LONG post! Have you heard of Manerix?
I am so glad that you are feeling stable and "normal" again!!! I'm almost 37, so I know what it's like to be on that long road of struggling to find something to help me live a normal life.
I'm getting there ...
Thanks again, Karen,
cindy> Cindylou,
>
> Sorry it has taken me a few days to get back to you - I haven't been on the board for a while. Someone ignored me and I got my feelings hurt. Waaah waaaah waaaaah...
>
> About mania: My manias are not characterized by wild spending sprees (I choose to call them "mini sprees":). I have NEVER stayed up all night, until one night just recently when I had a bad reaction, adjusting to Lamictal. I simply get agitated, impatient, noise sensitive, completely irrational and angry. A migraine usually is part of the picture. I feel as if I am "amping out," and can't stand to be in my own body. I can shift from feeling great to crying within minutes, when I am rapid cycling. My depressions are deep, frightening and the suicidal thoughts just will not go away, though I don't believe in suicide.
>
> It was not always this bad - I just turned 40 but I do remember times of deep depression as early as my teenage years. I self medicated then with alcohol and other drugs. I didn't recognize the manias for what they were then, because at that point they felt pretty good.
>
> As my illness progressed, during my manic times, I was witty, smart (at least I thought so) and moving faster than everyone around me. I was top sales rep in my company and doing well. Then depression would strike and I would drive around aimlessly, not wanting to speak to my clients. I almost lost my job, only to make a comeback and set new company sales records. While I was on this roller coaster, I left in my wake a series of shortlived relationships and damage. It was a wild, dangerous ride.
>
> All that to tell you, I am most assuredly Bipolar.
>
> It has taken me years of misdiagnoses to get where I am today, which, for the most part, is STABLE. I finally went (through the help of a friend) to see an excellent mood disorder specialist who gave me a correct diagnosis. Then, I fired my old, pompous psych doc and replaced him with a doctor who is just wonderful. Sometimes it's what you have to do.
>
> My current med mix is: Trileptal 600mg a.m., 1200mg p.m. (a mood stabilizer), Lamictal, 50mg a.m. and 50mg at around 2 p.m. (another mood stabilizer, with antidepressant activity), Geodon 40mg 3x a day (an new, atypical antipsychotic used in my case for ruminating thoughts)and a low dose of Xanax as needed (for any anxiety and breakthrough mania). The more stable I feel from these meds, the less I am needing the Xanax but I think the other three are keepers. One thing I do believe is that a bipolar patient will not do well until on the right mood stabilizers. Antidepressants alone may only amplify and speed up the cycling.
>
> All I can say is, it feels good to be sane, rational, calm and able to handle what difficulties come along without FREAKING OUT. Suicidal thoughts no longer plague me. I don't have a broken record of bad thoughts playing in my mind, over and over again, on a daily basis. I am even fairly sure I will be OK next week, so I can make plans and not have to break them. I don't have migraines. Life is really good. Is this what normal feels like?
>
> My advice is this: Find a great doctor. Not just an OK one or a good one...a GREAT one. Do everything you have to do to find this person. Then, stick with them, tell them everything they need to know and trust them. But, make sure they are the right one first.
>
> BTW, I found Buspar to be utterly worthless. But, like they say...everybody's different.
>
> Best wishes for your health.
>
> Karen
Posted by AMD on April 18, 2004, at 16:49:44
In reply to Re: Bipolar? Cindylou !, posted by KarenB on May 7, 2001, at 1:06:32
KarenB,
You wrote this quite some time ago, but I'm curious how you are doing now. It's errie how similar your situation seems to me, especially the part where you say how nice it is to be able to plan a week ahead. I can't plan more than a few days ahead because I'm never sure how my mind will be then ... did your medication cocktail continue to help? How are you doing now?
This is the end of the thread.
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