![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 53. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Katz on January 23, 2001, at 19:02:07
After reading so many positive things about Reboxetine, I ordered some from IAS and eagerly began a course of 8mg/day to treat my depression, anhedonia and social phobia. On or about day four, I began to feel the energizing effects which were encouraging. One particular day into week two, I actually felt almost "happy". I was filled with child like awe as I watched the snow falling outside my window. WOW! Is this what normal feels like I thought! This is cool! My next thought was, "this is to good to be true. I can't last." IT DIDN'T!!! Here I am at the end of week three and the energizing effects that I felt in the beginning seem to have waned. I never did experience any of the other positive results I was hoping for. No increase in socialability, no motivation, no increased self-esteem...none of that good stuff! As I begin week four, I have increased my dosage to 10mg/day. I have little hope that this is going to be the miracle pill I have been waiting for most of my adult life.
I was wondering if anyone suffering from depression, anhedonia and social phobia has had any positive results with this drug? How long did it take for you to get full relief from your symptoms?
Several years ago I was seeing a pdoc several states away who prescribed ritilin. At 20 mg/day, it was my miracle pill! I found complete relief from depression, anhedonia and social phobia. I remained on ritilin for 6 months. I took 20mg in the morning only. I never needed to increase the dose. Unfortunately, I could not afford the expense of traveling 3 states away every month (gas, motel, food, etc). I tried unsuccessfully to find someone in my area to prescribe the ritilin for me. All refused and insisted on more trials of anti-depressants! I have tried them all. They don't work! Three years have since past. 3 more years of my life wasted because nobody was willing to prescribe a drug that is handed out indiscriminantly to children as though it were candy! Who's crazy here?
Has anyone used ritilin or another stimulant to successfully treat depression, anhedonia and social phobia? Any input would be greatly appreciated. I'm desperate. I want a life! HELP!!!
Katz
Posted by SalArmy4me on January 23, 2001, at 22:29:42
In reply to Reboxetine/Ritilin for Depression?, posted by Katz on January 23, 2001, at 19:02:07
Maybe you need a stimulating medication like buproprion or tranylcypromine. Reboxetine is supposed to be weak.
Ritalin won't work very well for all your symptoms by itself.
Phenelzine has proven most effective in all mood-disorders, and may most likely be the drug of most value in Social Phobia.
Posted by dennis on January 24, 2001, at 0:03:25
In reply to Re: Reboxetine/Ritilin for Depression?, posted by SalArmy4me on January 23, 2001, at 22:29:42
I say if ritilin works then you should take ritilin, keep trying to find a doctor to prescribe it for you, if it works it works, who cares whats normal to take for depression, you should not be deprived of a drug that improves your quality of life.
Posted by JohnL on January 24, 2001, at 3:02:13
In reply to Reboxetine/Ritilin for Depression?, posted by Katz on January 23, 2001, at 19:02:07
> After reading so many positive things about Reboxetine, I ordered some from IAS and eagerly began a course of 8mg/day to treat my depression, anhedonia and social phobia. On or about day four, I began to feel the energizing effects which were encouraging. One particular day into week two, I actually felt almost "happy". I was filled with child like awe as I watched the snow falling outside my window. WOW! Is this what normal feels like I thought! This is cool! My next thought was, "this is to good to be true. I can't last." IT DIDN'T!!! Here I am at the end of week three and the energizing effects that I felt in the beginning seem to have waned. I never did experience any of the other positive results I was hoping for. No increase in socialability, no motivation, no increased self-esteem...none of that good stuff! As I begin week four, I have increased my dosage to 10mg/day. I have little hope that this is going to be the miracle pill I have been waiting for most of my adult life.
>
> I was wondering if anyone suffering from depression, anhedonia and social phobia has had any positive results with this drug? How long did it take for you to get full relief from your symptoms?
>
> Several years ago I was seeing a pdoc several states away who prescribed ritilin. At 20 mg/day, it was my miracle pill! I found complete relief from depression, anhedonia and social phobia. I remained on ritilin for 6 months. I took 20mg in the morning only. I never needed to increase the dose. Unfortunately, I could not afford the expense of traveling 3 states away every month (gas, motel, food, etc). I tried unsuccessfully to find someone in my area to prescribe the ritilin for me. All refused and insisted on more trials of anti-depressants! I have tried them all. They don't work! Three years have since past. 3 more years of my life wasted because nobody was willing to prescribe a drug that is handed out indiscriminantly to children as though it were candy! Who's crazy here?
>
> Has anyone used ritilin or another stimulant to successfully treat depression, anhedonia and social phobia? Any input would be greatly appreciated. I'm desperate. I want a life! HELP!!!
>
> Katz
I would make two suggestions:
1) Continue searching your local area for a doc who will prescribe Ritalin. Certainly one exists. You might have to go to the extreme of calling every one in the yellow pages, but there has to be one somewhere. After all, they prescribe these to our children all the time. I've always felt stimulants have great therapeutic value in psychiatry, but that they are over used in children and under used in adults. Keep calling local docs. There has to be one.2) Since you are already initiated into the self-directed care arena, Adrafinil and Amisulpride could be excellent choices to try. Based on your comments, both of these will hit the same chemistries invloved that gave you the good effects of Ritalin and Rebox, except from slightly different angles. They're cheap and easy to get, easy to try, few side effects.
The reason I mention these is because my history is very much like yours. I found Ritalin very helpful, but I couldn't endure the roller coaster ups and downs. Adrafinil+Amisulpride has provided more long lasting dependable results, but in a slower more gentle fashion, taking a few weeks to work rather than a few hours. In certain cases I think Adraf and Amis are excellent choices, and you seem to fit the description perfectly. While Ritalin hits anhedonia like a nuclear bomb blast, Adraf+Amis hits anhedonia more like the after effects of a nuclear blast. Either way, anhedonia stands little chance of surviving.
John
Posted by Leonardo on January 24, 2001, at 6:20:41
In reply to Reboxetine/Ritilin for Depression?, posted by Katz on January 23, 2001, at 19:02:07
Hi Katz!I can identify with a lot of what you say and have pretty much the same problems now. I am trying to find an internet source of Ritalin/Dexedrine/Adderall etc (see my post above), though I gather that posessing this stuff without a prescription is illegal in the US (I am in the UK).
I have a lot of experience with reboxetine. I found it very variable and unpredictable when taken by itself, although it does have a very targetted noradrenaline action. I did at times find it energising, sometimes making me feel too wired. I also had spells of severe irritability/intolerance which conquered any social phobia, I would argue with shop assistants with the merest provocation and quite enjoy it! But I had a big row with my wife... I too had spells of feeling completely well, but couldn't hang on to it. I found that high doses of reboxetine were counterproductive for me, 4 or even 2 mg a day over a period were better. I got best results overall when combining with a small dose of Paxil, it helps with anxiety/social phobia, and the 2 cancel out each others side effects more or less.
However, I have given up on that conbo after 9 months, as I still have depression, lethargy, sometimes leading to not wanting to go out and face the world. I have come to think that anhedonia and social phobia, at least in my case, are just consequences of the depression, not really a specific condition on their own. So the answer is to fix the cause of the depression.
I also have tried quite a few ADs with poor results. I have tried Ritain 10mg on a few occasions (borrowed from my son...) and got a good response. I too feel that conventional ADs are unlikely to sort me out, but Ritalin holds promise. My Pdoc now wants me to try Zoloft and Effexor before he will consider stimulants.
In the UK you are not allowed to be prescribed stimulants for depression, but you (possibly) can get them for ADHD. So I am working towards getting a diagnosis of ADHD as soon as possible! ADHD can cause depression and all the other stuff anyway. If you have any symptoms of problems with concentrationa and attention span which you think were there before you got depressed, and don't go away with ADs, you might be able to get an ADHD diagnosis.
If Ritalin works for you, you probably wouldn't need to combine it with reboxetine, as they have a lot of similarities in their actions.
Good luck!
Leonardo
Posted by Sigolene on January 24, 2001, at 7:29:07
In reply to Where to get Adrafinil/amisulphride » JohnL, posted by Leonardo on January 24, 2001, at 6:29:55
I can see that everyone is speaking in good terms about retalin. But let me tell my own experience with this med.
I took it for depression, ADD, low motivation... At the beginning it was useful, then i had to add an AD because my depression came back. But i carried on with Ritalin because it helps in concentration. After about three mounth with 40mg, i began to have very rapid cycling of hypomania and depression alternatively, i felt really bad and thought about dying many times in the day. The AD had no more effect. Then i suspected Ritalin to be the cause of this and i stopped it. I must admit that i had much difficulties in stopping this med. because IT IS VERY ADDICTIVE even if i haven't an addict personality. This was 3 days ago, and now i begin to feel better and i hope it will continue like this. But be careful with Ritalin, i think now that it is destroying the nervous system and inducing bad depression (like every other addictive stuff: alcool, drug...).
Sigolène
Posted by SLS on January 24, 2001, at 7:31:41
In reply to Reboxetine/Ritilin for Depression?, posted by Katz on January 23, 2001, at 19:02:07
Hi Katz.
I think the suggestions of SalArmy4me are good ones. Have you ever tried the tricyclic antidepressants like desipramine or nortriptyline? Both of these drugs are very noradrenergic, as is reboxetine, but exert effects in other areas. The side effects of these drugs are the mildest among the tricyclics. I find desipramine a bit energizing and serves to lessen the anxiety often associated with depression. Like most other drugs, startup side effects might occur, but it has been my experience that they lessen with time. If desipramine produces some of that "wired" feeling in the beginning of treatment, it will probably disappear by the end of the first week.
Once you trial some of the other drugs and drug combinations suggested here, you may want to visit the tricyclics. It seems that desipramine is a more consistently effective antidepressant than is reboxetine.
- Scott> After reading so many positive things about Reboxetine, I ordered some from IAS and eagerly began a course of 8mg/day to treat my depression, anhedonia and social phobia. On or about day four, I began to feel the energizing effects which were encouraging. One particular day into week two, I actually felt almost "happy". I was filled with child like awe as I watched the snow falling outside my window. WOW! Is this what normal feels like I thought! This is cool! My next thought was, "this is to good to be true. I can't last." IT DIDN'T!!! Here I am at the end of week three and the energizing effects that I felt in the beginning seem to have waned. I never did experience any of the other positive results I was hoping for. No increase in socialability, no motivation, no increased self-esteem...none of that good stuff! As I begin week four, I have increased my dosage to 10mg/day. I have little hope that this is going to be the miracle pill I have been waiting for most of my adult life.
>
> I was wondering if anyone suffering from depression, anhedonia and social phobia has had any positive results with this drug? How long did it take for you to get full relief from your symptoms?
>
> Several years ago I was seeing a pdoc several states away who prescribed ritilin. At 20 mg/day, it was my miracle pill! I found complete relief from depression, anhedonia and social phobia. I remained on ritilin for 6 months. I took 20mg in the morning only. I never needed to increase the dose. Unfortunately, I could not afford the expense of traveling 3 states away every month (gas, motel, food, etc). I tried unsuccessfully to find someone in my area to prescribe the ritilin for me. All refused and insisted on more trials of anti-depressants! I have tried them all. They don't work! Three years have since past. 3 more years of my life wasted because nobody was willing to prescribe a drug that is handed out indiscriminantly to children as though it were candy! Who's crazy here?
>
> Has anyone used ritilin or another stimulant to successfully treat depression, anhedonia and social phobia? Any input would be greatly appreciated. I'm desperate. I want a life! HELP!!!
>
> Katz
Posted by Katz on January 24, 2001, at 8:41:53
In reply to Re: Reboxetine/Ritilin for Depression?, posted by SalArmy4me on January 23, 2001, at 22:29:42
>Hi Sal,
Thank you for your input. I have tried Wellbutrin (buproprion) and all it did was make me itch like crazy! It had absolutely no effect on me otherwise. Aside from that, taking those large red horse pills made be rather nervous. All that red dye! Yuck! As for tranylcypromine I have not taken that nor have I ever heard of it. I will certainly put it on my list of drugs to research.
Actually Sal, Ritilin did work for all my symptoms! It was an amazing drug for me. It did have a harsh edge to it, but easy enough to bare considering all the wonderful things it did for me.
Phenelzine is another drug I have not tried but will certainly research.
Thanks again for all your suggestions.
Katz
Maybe you need a stimulating medication like buproprion or tranylcypromine. Reboxetine is supposed to be weak.
>
> Ritalin won't work very well for all your symptoms by itself.
>
> Phenelzine has proven most effective in all mood-disorders, and may most likely be the drug of most value in Social Phobia.
Posted by Katz on January 24, 2001, at 8:49:56
In reply to Re: Reboxetine/Ritilin for Depression?, posted by dennis on January 24, 2001, at 0:03:25
> I say if ritilin works then you should take ritilin, keep trying to find a doctor to prescribe it for you, if it works it works, who cares whats normal to take for depression, you should not be deprived of a drug that improves your quality of life.
Hi Dennis,
Thanks for your support. That's exactly how I feel about it. It's an outrage that I am being denied a drug that can give me life! My social phobia is so severe (bordering on avoidant personaliy disorder) that looking for another doctor right now seems nearly impossible. I am currently totally housebound.
Posted by Katz on January 24, 2001, at 9:22:13
In reply to Re: Reboxetine/Ritilin for Depression?, posted by JohnL on January 24, 2001, at 3:02:13
> I would make two suggestions:
> 1) Continue searching your local area for a doc who will prescribe Ritalin. Certainly one exists. You might have to go to the extreme of calling every one in the yellow pages, but there has to be one somewhere. After all, they prescribe these to our children all the time. I've always felt stimulants have great therapeutic value in psychiatry, but that they are over used in children and under used in adults. Keep calling local docs. There has to be one.
>
> 2) Since you are already initiated into the self-directed care arena, Adrafinil and Amisulpride could be excellent choices to try. Based on your comments, both of these will hit the same chemistries invloved that gave you the good effects of Ritalin and Rebox, except from slightly different angles. They're cheap and easy to get, easy to try, few side effects.
>
> The reason I mention these is because my history is very much like yours. I found Ritalin very helpful, but I couldn't endure the roller coaster ups and downs. Adrafinil+Amisulpride has provided more long lasting dependable results, but in a slower more gentle fashion, taking a few weeks to work rather than a few hours. In certain cases I think Adraf and Amis are excellent choices, and you seem to fit the description perfectly. While Ritalin hits anhedonia like a nuclear bomb blast, Adraf+Amis hits anhedonia more like the after effects of a nuclear blast. Either way, anhedonia stands little chance of surviving.
> JohnHi John,
Funny, I never expected to hear from you. I have read your post on your Adraf+Amis success story and am quite excited about it and thrilled that it is working out so well for you. Yes, indeed, I did recognize the similarities of our cases. Infact, my first response is to chuck the rebox and start the Adrafinil + Amisulpride. But alas, I must be patient. I have another months supply of Rebox and I'm going to finish the trial with an increased dose. Adraf+Amis is definitely my next course of action.
I will tell you that I have tried Adrafinil by itself, several years ago. At that time I didn't understand how the drug worked and so after the first week as the drug appeared to lose its stimulating effects, I gave up on it not realizing that it takes weeks and even months to acheive the full benefits of this particular stimulant. I am encouraged by all that I have learned by you and others on this board about adrafinil and am really looking forward to trying it again.
I have two questions for you. Is the amisulpride supposed to work on the dopamine system? If so, would deprynel or sinemet work the same way?
Do you think the gaba system plays any part in our seeming similar symptoms?
I look forward to your response. Thanks again for all your advice. Wishing you continued success and happiness,
Katz
Posted by Katz on January 24, 2001, at 9:55:45
In reply to Re: Reboxetine/Ritalin - what about ADHD? » Katz, posted by Leonardo on January 24, 2001, at 6:20:41
> Hi Leonardo,
Good luck finding that internet source for Ritilin. I have spent days upon days searching and have found it impossible. Aside from that, here in the US it's a criminal offense to import class 2 drugs. That being said, had I found an internet source, my desperation would have driven me to take a chance and place an order.
I am only into my fourth week on reboxetine and I too am finding it's action variable. Most days I do feel energized but occassionally I do not. There has also been an occassional fleeting hour or two when I have felt overwhelmingly depressed but that quickly passes. Like you, I do not think this drug is going to work out for me over the long term. It certainly has not helped my social phobia thus far and for me, that is worse than my depression which is often absent or very mild. Question: What time of day did you take your rebox? Up until today, I was taking mine at 8 PM and 4 AM because initally the rebox caused a sedating effect. I would awake energized. Now, it appears that the sedating effect has worn off, I didn't sleep at all last night. I will have to start taking the meds during the day. I'm still trying to figure out when the best times would be.
I have been on Zoloft (no help) and Effexor which I considered to be a drug from hell. It actually worsened my depression, caused considerable weight gain and sleepiness. Withdrawal was the pits. All kinds of stomach problems. Keep in mind that these are just my experience and should not discourage you. One of them just may be your miracle pill. We are all so very different in our responses to these meds.
As for the stimulants, they too are not all created equal. Dexedrine did absolutely nothing for me. I could take 30mg turn over and fall back asleep. I have never tried Adderall. Some like it better and some like it less than Ritilin. Again, it's an individual thing.
I have to laugh at your trying pass yourself off as ADHD. "Been there, done that"! Only I tried to say I was ADD since nobody would every believe I was hyper! I applied to an ADD/ADHD clinic and was quickly referred back to the Depression Clinic. I guess they saw right through me! It's worth a try however! I'm just not a good lyer and really couldn't pull it off. I hope you have better luck. Still, why bother? Your pdoc seems willing to prescribe the stims in the event the Zoloft and effexor don't work out!
Wishing you luck on your journey to happiness,
Katz
> Hi Katz!
>
> I can identify with a lot of what you say and have pretty much the same problems now. I am trying to find an internet source of Ritalin/Dexedrine/Adderall etc (see my post above), though I gather that posessing this stuff without a prescription is illegal in the US (I am in the UK).
>
> I have a lot of experience with reboxetine. I found it very variable and unpredictable when taken by itself, although it does have a very targetted noradrenaline action. I did at times find it energising, sometimes making me feel too wired. I also had spells of severe irritability/intolerance which conquered any social phobia, I would argue with shop assistants with the merest provocation and quite enjoy it! But I had a big row with my wife... I too had spells of feeling completely well, but couldn't hang on to it. I found that high doses of reboxetine were counterproductive for me, 4 or even 2 mg a day over a period were better. I got best results overall when combining with a small dose of Paxil, it helps with anxiety/social phobia, and the 2 cancel out each others side effects more or less.
>
> However, I have given up on that conbo after 9 months, as I still have depression, lethargy, sometimes leading to not wanting to go out and face the world. I have come to think that anhedonia and social phobia, at least in my case, are just consequences of the depression, not really a specific condition on their own. So the answer is to fix the cause of the depression.
>
> I also have tried quite a few ADs with poor results. I have tried Ritain 10mg on a few occasions (borrowed from my son...) and got a good response. I too feel that conventional ADs are unlikely to sort me out, but Ritalin holds promise. My Pdoc now wants me to try Zoloft and Effexor before he will consider stimulants.
>
> In the UK you are not allowed to be prescribed stimulants for depression, but you (possibly) can get them for ADHD. So I am working towards getting a diagnosis of ADHD as soon as possible! ADHD can cause depression and all the other stuff anyway. If you have any symptoms of problems with concentrationa and attention span which you think were there before you got depressed, and don't go away with ADs, you might be able to get an ADHD diagnosis.
>
> If Ritalin works for you, you probably wouldn't need to combine it with reboxetine, as they have a lot of similarities in their actions.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Leonardo
Posted by Katz on January 24, 2001, at 10:06:08
In reply to about Ritalin, posted by Sigolene on January 24, 2001, at 7:29:07
> I can see that everyone is speaking in good terms about retalin. But let me tell my own experience with this med.
> I took it for depression, ADD, low motivation... At the beginning it was useful, then i had to add an AD because my depression came back. But i carried on with Ritalin because it helps in concentration. After about three mounth with 40mg, i began to have very rapid cycling of hypomania and depression alternatively, i felt really bad and thought about dying many times in the day. The AD had no more effect. Then i suspected Ritalin to be the cause of this and i stopped it. I must admit that i had much difficulties in stopping this med. because IT IS VERY ADDICTIVE even if i haven't an addict personality. This was 3 days ago, and now i begin to feel better and i hope it will continue like this. But be careful with Ritalin, i think now that it is destroying the nervous system and inducing bad depression (like every other addictive stuff: alcool, drug...).
> SigolèneHi Sigolene,
Thank you for the warning. It is one that anyone considering Ritilin or another stim should take to heart. I was only on ritilin for 6 months so my experience (although very positive) is very limited. I was only on 20mg from beginning to end of my trial and never saw or felt the need to increase the dose. So in that sense and in that time frame, I did not find it addictive. I did however go through withdrawal when I stopped the drug by way of severe depression.
Again thanks for the info. I hope you are doing well and have found a med that is right for you.
Katz
Posted by Katz on January 24, 2001, at 10:26:47
In reply to Re: Reboxetine/Ritilin for Depression?, posted by SLS on January 24, 2001, at 7:31:41
> Hi Katz.
>
> I think the suggestions of SalArmy4me are good ones. Have you ever tried the tricyclic antidepressants like desipramine or nortriptyline? Both of these drugs are very noradrenergic, as is reboxetine, but exert effects in other areas. The side effects of these drugs are the mildest among the tricyclics. I find desipramine a bit energizing and serves to lessen the anxiety often associated with depression. Like most other drugs, startup side effects might occur, but it has been my experience that they lessen with time. If desipramine produces some of that "wired" feeling in the beginning of treatment, it will probably disappear by the end of the first week.
>
> Once you trial some of the other drugs and drug combinations suggested here, you may want to visit the tricyclics. It seems that desipramine is a more consistently effective antidepressant than is reboxetine.Hi Scott,
Thank you for your kind suggestions. I have tried many tricyclics over the years. Infact, desipramine was that last one that I tried. Encouraged by its energizing effects intially, I soon became discouraged when all positive effects diminished after a four month trial. It is my belief that I have too much seratonin in my brain which is overwehlming and sedating my nor-adrenalin system and that is why the trycyclics are not working for me. I don't know if that makes any sense or not. I have never heard anyone else put forth this theory (although surely someone else must have). Whatever the reason, anything which increases seratonin is just too sedative for me. As for nortriptyline, that sounds very familiar is that one of the older tricyclics, elivil or tofrinil? If so I have been on it and found it to be the most sedating of all...sleeping around the clock!
Wishing you happiness,
Katz
>
>
> - Scott
>
>
>
> > After reading so many positive things about Reboxetine, I ordered some from IAS and eagerly began a course of 8mg/day to treat my depression, anhedonia and social phobia. On or about day four, I began to feel the energizing effects which were encouraging. One particular day into week two, I actually felt almost "happy". I was filled with child like awe as I watched the snow falling outside my window. WOW! Is this what normal feels like I thought! This is cool! My next thought was, "this is to good to be true. I can't last." IT DIDN'T!!! Here I am at the end of week three and the energizing effects that I felt in the beginning seem to have waned. I never did experience any of the other positive results I was hoping for. No increase in socialability, no motivation, no increased self-esteem...none of that good stuff! As I begin week four, I have increased my dosage to 10mg/day. I have little hope that this is going to be the miracle pill I have been waiting for most of my adult life.
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone suffering from depression, anhedonia and social phobia has had any positive results with this drug? How long did it take for you to get full relief from your symptoms?
> >
> > Several years ago I was seeing a pdoc several states away who prescribed ritilin. At 20 mg/day, it was my miracle pill! I found complete relief from depression, anhedonia and social phobia. I remained on ritilin for 6 months. I took 20mg in the morning only. I never needed to increase the dose. Unfortunately, I could not afford the expense of traveling 3 states away every month (gas, motel, food, etc). I tried unsuccessfully to find someone in my area to prescribe the ritilin for me. All refused and insisted on more trials of anti-depressants! I have tried them all. They don't work! Three years have since past. 3 more years of my life wasted because nobody was willing to prescribe a drug that is handed out indiscriminantly to children as though it were candy! Who's crazy here?
> >
> > Has anyone used ritilin or another stimulant to successfully treat depression, anhedonia and social phobia? Any input would be greatly appreciated. I'm desperate. I want a life! HELP!!!
> >
> > Katz
Posted by Leonardo on January 24, 2001, at 10:43:35
In reply to Re: Reboxetine/Ritalin - what about ADHD?, posted by Katz on January 24, 2001, at 9:55:45
Hi Katz
Thanks, I'll continue looking for Ritalin on the net, but it does waste a lot of time! I only want enough to do trial for the time being - I may have to steal some more from my son. I am a bit panicked now by what Sigolene said - my son is on 40mg Ritalin a day, I'll have to keep a close watch on him.
Re the rebox, etc, we seem to have had a similar response, except I never found it sedating. I started with 4mg morning + 4mg evening and could hardly sleep at all. It was during this period that I went a bit hyper/manic and lost all social inhibition. I then cut down and started taking the second dose at lunchtime, either 4 + 2 or 2 + 2. I wouldn't dare take it in the evening again. Have you tried Paxil? Like I said, the two together gave me a much smoother response, my steady dose was 2mg rebox am, 2mg at lunch, and 5 or 10 mg paxil in the evening. In retrospect, my best responses were in the transition from one drug regime to another, I never managed to remain 'normal' feeling for more than hours or days together. In at least two cases (coming off full dose Paxil and coming off full dose Remeron) I think the good feeling may have been more to do with the release from their terribly sedating side effects!
I am a bit wary of trying Zoloft and Effexor, but maybe I'll be lucky. I at least have to give them a try so my Pdoc will agree to try more radical approaches if they don't work.
I actually believe that I do have ADHD, and that may well have been the cause of my depression indirectly. I really am taking it seriously now that my son has been diagnosed and responsded well to Ritalin (ADHD runs in families) and it would explain a lot of my school/work problems that have always been a mystery to me - I am 'capable' but never achieve my potential. I have always had terrible problams with concentration/motivation and being distractable, even before I got depressed. I read a top 20 symptoms list for adult ADHD when I was looking into it for my son, I scored 18/20! To get my Pdoc to take it seriously though, I have to get my depression under control for a while and show that I still have the concentration problems.
As you prob. know, not everyone with ADHD has hyperactivity, there is a subset called 'primarily inattentive' or somesuch which is harder to spot. I should be working right know, but I've got a bit distracted...
Best wishes
Leonardo
Posted by Katz on January 24, 2001, at 11:53:05
In reply to Re: Reboxetine/Ritalin - what about ADHD?, posted by Leonardo on January 24, 2001, at 10:43:35
> Hi Katz
>
> Thanks, I'll continue looking for Ritalin on the net, but it does waste a lot of time! I only want enough to do trial for the time being - I may have to steal some more from my son. I am a bit panicked now by what Sigolene said - my son is on 40mg Ritalin a day, I'll have to keep a close watch on him.
>
> Re the rebox, etc, we seem to have had a similar response, except I never found it sedating. I started with 4mg morning + 4mg evening and could hardly sleep at all. It was during this period that I went a bit hyper/manic and lost all social inhibition. I then cut down and started taking the second dose at lunchtime, either 4 + 2 or 2 + 2. I wouldn't dare take it in the evening again. Have you tried Paxil? Like I said, the two together gave me a much smoother response, my steady dose was 2mg rebox am, 2mg at lunch, and 5 or 10 mg paxil in the evening. In retrospect, my best responses were in the transition from one drug regime to another, I never managed to remain 'normal' feeling for more than hours or days together. In at least two cases (coming off full dose Paxil and coming off full dose Remeron) I think the good feeling may have been more to do with the release from their terribly sedating side effects!
>
> I am a bit wary of trying Zoloft and Effexor, but maybe I'll be lucky. I at least have to give them a try so my Pdoc will agree to try more radical approaches if they don't work.
>
> I actually believe that I do have ADHD, and that may well have been the cause of my depression indirectly. I really am taking it seriously now that my son has been diagnosed and responsded well to Ritalin (ADHD runs in families) and it would explain a lot of my school/work problems that have always been a mystery to me - I am 'capable' but never achieve my potential. I have always had terrible problams with concentration/motivation and being distractable, even before I got depressed. I read a top 20 symptoms list for adult ADHD when I was looking into it for my son, I scored 18/20! To get my Pdoc to take it seriously though, I have to get my depression under control for a while and show that I still have the concentration problems.
>
> As you prob. know, not everyone with ADHD has hyperactivity, there is a subset called 'primarily inattentive' or somesuch which is harder to spot. I should be working right know, but I've got a bit distracted...
>
> Best wishes
> LeonardoHi Leonardo,
Thank you for that quick response. Have you tried the combination of andrafinil & amisulpride that John recommends? Perhaps you should give it a try before going the Ritilin route. If it works, it sounds like it would be a kinder, gentler albeit very effective treatment. I know that you can't order from sources inside your own country but I'm sure you can find sources elsewhere, e.g. Mexico, Italy, etc. Perhaps someone with that information could post it here.
As for the paxil. I don't feel I need it. At least not yet. I have not found the energizing effects of Rebox overwhelming. Now that I am beginning my dosing during the daytime, I doubt I will have a problem sleeping. In the event that I do, I will keep your Paxil suggestion in mind although I would really hate to increase my seratonin levels under any circumstances. Infact, now that I think about it, if sleep does become a problem, I think Melatonin might be a better choice for me.
Leonardo, if you believe you have ADHD you should discuss it with your doctor immediately. He might be willing to introduce the stims more readily. I don't believe that I have either ADHD or ADD although I do believe there is some frontal lobe inactivity involved which is causing my anhedonia and possibly my social phobia. Who knows, unless one can actually look at the brain activity, it's just speculation as to what is really going on.
Good luck,
Kathy
Posted by MarkinBoston on January 24, 2001, at 17:03:18
In reply to Reboxetine/Ritilin for Depression?, posted by Katz on January 23, 2001, at 19:02:07
> Several years ago I was seeing a pdoc several states away who prescribed ritilin. At 20 mg/day, it was my miracle pill! I found complete relief from depression, anhedonia and social phobia. I remained on ritilin for 6 months. I took 20mg in the morning only. I never needed to increase the dose. Unfortunately, I could not afford the expense of traveling 3 states away every month (gas, motel, food, etc). I tried unsuccessfully to find someone in my area to prescribe the ritilin for me. All refused and insisted on more trials of anti-depressants! I have tried them all. They don't work! Three years have since past. 3 more years of my life wasted because nobody was willing to prescribe a drug that is handed out indiscriminantly to children as though it were candy! Who's crazy here?
>
> Has anyone used ritilin or another stimulant to successfully treat depression, anhedonia and social phobia? Any input would be greatly appreciated. I'm desperate. I want a life! HELP!!!
>
> KatzYes, I find stimulants helpfull and not particularly addictive, where one pill in the morning is generally all I need. There is no comparison in addiction potential between stimulants and cigarettes. The latter is far more addictive, but you can buy as much as you want as long as you're an adult. The former might induce temporary psychosis, the latter death.
I gave Provigil a quick try and do not like it as much as Ritalin or Aderall. Two of Provigil's best features according to the manufacturer are that its taken 1/day, and its schedule 4 and much easier to dispense. Lots of data about being better than a placebo for staying awake, but no comparisons with Ritalin or amphetamines. It costs about 5x what your Ritalin does, but so what, the doc doesn't have to see you every month for another script. That's of value to them and reason enough to choose Provigil over another drug.
I have a couple suggestions:1. Have your old pdoc forward a copy of your records to the new pdoc showing your history and all the meds you've tried unsuccessfully.
2. If your old pdoc wrote you a script for 20mg, 3x/day for Ritalin, it would be within the therapeutic dosage range and not cause a problem for the doc. If you were a non-compliant patient and only took 1/day, 90 pills would last you 3 months.
Posted by Katz on January 24, 2001, at 19:21:36
In reply to Re: Reboxetine/Ritilin for Depression? » Katz, posted by MarkinBoston on January 24, 2001, at 17:03:18
Hi Markin,
I loved your ciggarette analogy! As it turns out, AD's may not be as innocuous as was once believed either. I understand that there is some new research that suggests that the AD's may be causing structural changes (damage) in the brain. Causing swelling of the synapses. Pretty scary stuff!
As for your suggestions:
l. I had the records from the pdoc forwarded to me and I gave them to the 3 different doctors in my area. The problem with those particular records is that they were not very extensive. I had only seen that doc for about a year. During that time, only 3 different meds were prescribed: tegretol (made my legs feel like lead), dexedrine (no effect, I could fall asleep on the stuff) and finally Ritilin. The reaction from all three docs was that this treatment was unconventional and unwise. They all seemed to believe that Ritilin would not be effective over the long run and that it was very addictive. They truly believed that they could get the same kind of successful result with AD's despite a long list of failed trials that I supplied them with from various other doctors. How can they justify bringing kids up on Ritilin if they believe it to be so addictive? It's insane! And many of these kids do infact become addicted, many resorting to snorting it as they reach their teenage years. A practice that has deadly implications.
2. Actually, my script was for 40 mg so I was able to make it last for two months. My pdoc was a pain about this, insisting that I had to see him every month (he wanted his money, of course)! Real compassionate huh? He was a real sweetheart!
How long have you been on ritilin? Has the dose remained constant throughout? What symptoms has it helped you with? Do you suffer from depression? Anhedonia? Social Phobia? ADD/ADHD?
Thanks for all your input,
Kathy
>
> Yes, I find stimulants helpfull and not particularly addictive, where one pill in the morning is generally all I need. There is no comparison in addiction potential between stimulants and cigarettes. The latter is far more addictive, but you can buy as much as you want as long as you're an adult. The former might induce temporary psychosis, the latter death.
>
> I gave Provigil a quick try and do not like it as much as Ritalin or Aderall. Two of Provigil's best features according to the manufacturer are that its taken 1/day, and its schedule 4 and much easier to dispense. Lots of data about being better than a placebo for staying awake, but no comparisons with Ritalin or amphetamines. It costs about 5x what your Ritalin does, but so what, the doc doesn't have to see you every month for another script. That's of value to them and reason enough to choose Provigil over another drug.
>
>
> I have a couple suggestions:
>
> 1. Have your old pdoc forward a copy of your records to the new pdoc showing your history and all the meds you've tried unsuccessfully.
>
> 2. If your old pdoc wrote you a script for 20mg, 3x/day for Ritalin, it would be within the therapeutic dosage range and not cause a problem for the doc. If you were a non-compliant patient and only took 1/day, 90 pills would last you 3 months.
Posted by Katz on January 25, 2001, at 13:14:27
In reply to Re: Reboxetine/Ritilin for Depression?, posted by JohnL on January 24, 2001, at 3:02:13
Hi John,
I wanted to let you know that I have ordered some amisulpride and andrafinil and hope to start as soon as I get off the Reboxetine which I am beginning to like less and less.
I posted a more complete message in response to your first post yesterday. Unfortunately, I just realized your supposed to leave the previous posters name when answering their post. If you want to read it, I'm afraid you will have to go back and read all the previous posts by me in order to find it. Sorry for being so stupid. I guess I'll just blame it on the Reboxetine.
Thanks for all your advice,
Kathy
> After reading so many positive things about Reboxetine, I ordered some from IAS and eagerly began a course of 8mg/day to treat my depression, anhedonia and social phobia. On or about day four, I began to feel the energizing effects which were encouraging. One particular day into week two, I actually felt almost "happy". I was filled with child like awe as I watched the snow falling outside my window. WOW! Is this what normal feels like I thought! This is cool! My next thought was, "this is to good to be true. I can't last." IT DIDN'T!!! Here I am at the end of week three and the energizing effects that I felt in the beginning seem to have waned. I never did experience any of the other positive results I was hoping for. No increase in socialability, no motivation, no increased self-esteem...none of that good stuff! As I begin week four, I have increased my dosage to 10mg/day. I have little hope that this is going to be the miracle pill I have been waiting for most of my adult life.
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone suffering from depression, anhedonia and social phobia has had any positive results with this drug? How long did it take for you to get full relief from your symptoms?
> >
> > Several years ago I was seeing a pdoc several states away who prescribed ritilin. At 20 mg/day, it was my miracle pill! I found complete relief from depression, anhedonia and social phobia. I remained on ritilin for 6 months. I took 20mg in the morning only. I never needed to increase the dose. Unfortunately, I could not afford the expense of traveling 3 states away every month (gas, motel, food, etc). I tried unsuccessfully to find someone in my area to prescribe the ritilin for me. All refused and insisted on more trials of anti-depressants! I have tried them all. They don't work! Three years have since past. 3 more years of my life wasted because nobody was willing to prescribe a drug that is handed out indiscriminantly to children as though it were candy! Who's crazy here?
> >
> > Has anyone used ritilin or another stimulant to successfully treat depression, anhedonia and social phobia? Any input would be greatly appreciated. I'm desperate. I want a life! HELP!!!
> >
> > Katz
>
>
> I would make two suggestions:
> 1) Continue searching your local area for a doc who will prescribe Ritalin. Certainly one exists. You might have to go to the extreme of calling every one in the yellow pages, but there has to be one somewhere. After all, they prescribe these to our children all the time. I've always felt stimulants have great therapeutic value in psychiatry, but that they are over used in children and under used in adults. Keep calling local docs. There has to be one.
>
> 2) Since you are already initiated into the self-directed care arena, Adrafinil and Amisulpride could be excellent choices to try. Based on your comments, both of these will hit the same chemistries invloved that gave you the good effects of Ritalin and Rebox, except from slightly different angles. They're cheap and easy to get, easy to try, few side effects.
>
> The reason I mention these is because my history is very much like yours. I found Ritalin very helpful, but I couldn't endure the roller coaster ups and downs. Adrafinil+Amisulpride has provided more long lasting dependable results, but in a slower more gentle fashion, taking a few weeks to work rather than a few hours. In certain cases I think Adraf and Amis are excellent choices, and you seem to fit the description perfectly. While Ritalin hits anhedonia like a nuclear bomb blast, Adraf+Amis hits anhedonia more like the after effects of a nuclear blast. Either way, anhedonia stands little chance of surviving.
> John
Posted by MarkinBoston on January 25, 2001, at 14:08:45
In reply to Re: Reboxetine/Ritilin for Depression? MarkinBos, posted by Katz on January 24, 2001, at 19:21:36
> Hi Markin,
> How long have you been on ritilin? Has the dose remained constant throughout? What symptoms has it helped you with? Do you suffer from depression? Anhedonia? Social Phobia? ADD/ADHD?I have double depression, dysthimia/anhedonia with about 5 stress induced major unipolar melancholic episodes. SSRI's don't seem to work, Wellbutrin makes me unwell, and high dose Effexor works, though I dislike the side effects. Hence, NE and DO seem to be the major players for me. I rarely experience panic and am somewhat shy, though don't much limit activity due to it. I may have ADD/ADHD - I haven't looked into it.
About 5 months ago I tried Ritalin with Serzone. I liked the Ritalin. The Serzoone helped some, but left me tired and foggy despite a couple attempts at gradual increases in dose. I thought the Ritalin might be pooping out, and switched to the stronger Aderall. Serzone was the real problem and I gave up on it and started Effexor.
My pdoc initially started my Ritalin at 20mg ex/day, but I found one in the AM was enough. After a while I started taking the second dose. With Adderall, I take 20mg in the AM, and another in the afternoon about half the time. I have become more tolarant of side effects, but not compelled to increase each dosing.
I do like the extra energy, uplifted mood, greater sociablity, alertness, mental focus, appetite suppression, and weight loss.
Posted by Katz on January 25, 2001, at 14:17:55
In reply to Re: Reboxetine/Ritilin for Depression? » Katz, posted by MarkinBoston on January 25, 2001, at 14:08:45
>Hi Mark,
Thanks for the additional info. I've decided to quit the Rebox and try the andrafinil + amisulfide combo. If that doesn't work, I'm just going to have to be more aggressive in my search for a doc to prescribe ritiln.
Wishing you great happiness,
KathyinWorcester
> Hi Markin,
> > How long have you been on ritilin? Has the dose remained constant throughout? What symptoms has it helped you with? Do you suffer from depression? Anhedonia? Social Phobia? ADD/ADHD?
>
> I have double depression, dysthimia/anhedonia with about 5 stress induced major unipolar melancholic episodes. SSRI's don't seem to work, Wellbutrin makes me unwell, and high dose Effexor works, though I dislike the side effects. Hence, NE and DO seem to be the major players for me. I rarely experience panic and am somewhat shy, though don't much limit activity due to it. I may have ADD/ADHD - I haven't looked into it.
>
> About 5 months ago I tried Ritalin with Serzone. I liked the Ritalin. The Serzoone helped some, but left me tired and foggy despite a couple attempts at gradual increases in dose. I thought the Ritalin might be pooping out, and switched to the stronger Aderall. Serzone was the real problem and I gave up on it and started Effexor.
>
> My pdoc initially started my Ritalin at 20mg ex/day, but I found one in the AM was enough. After a while I started taking the second dose. With Adderall, I take 20mg in the AM, and another in the afternoon about half the time. I have become more tolarant of side effects, but not compelled to increase each dosing.
>
> I do like the extra energy, uplifted mood, greater sociablity, alertness, mental focus, appetite suppression, and weight loss.
Posted by Leonardo on January 26, 2001, at 5:12:16
In reply to Re: Reboxetine/Ritalin - what about ADHD?, posted by Katz on January 24, 2001, at 11:53:05
Hi Katz
I haven't had chance to try the amisulpride/adrafinil, but I will try to get some. I am in a 4 week washout period from deprenyl at the moment before my Pdoc will let me start Zoloft. I am willing to risk taking Ritalin at this time, it is quick acting and quick to clear, but it may not be worth starting the amisulpride/adrafinil as it takes a while to take effect, and would confuse things when I start the Zoloft.
I hope the stuff works for you! Keep us posted. I will keep working on my Pdoc for the ADHD and a trial of stims, but I think I need to trial at least Zoloft and Effexor before he will agree...
Best wishes
Leonardo> Hi Leonardo,
>
> Thank you for that quick response. Have you tried the combination of andrafinil & amisulpride that John recommends? Perhaps you should give it a try before going the Ritilin route. If it works, it sounds like it would be a kinder, gentler albeit very effective treatment. I know that you can't order from sources inside your own country but I'm sure you can find sources elsewhere, e.g. Mexico, Italy, etc. Perhaps someone with that information could post it here.
>
> As for the paxil. I don't feel I need it. At least not yet. I have not found the energizing effects of Rebox overwhelming. Now that I am beginning my dosing during the daytime, I doubt I will have a problem sleeping. In the event that I do, I will keep your Paxil suggestion in mind although I would really hate to increase my seratonin levels under any circumstances. Infact, now that I think about it, if sleep does become a problem, I think Melatonin might be a better choice for me.
>
> Leonardo, if you believe you have ADHD you should discuss it with your doctor immediately. He might be willing to introduce the stims more readily. I don't believe that I have either ADHD or ADD although I do believe there is some frontal lobe inactivity involved which is causing my anhedonia and possibly my social phobia. Who knows, unless one can actually look at the brain activity, it's just speculation as to what is really going on.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Kathy
Posted by HenryO on January 26, 2001, at 15:00:09
In reply to Reboxetine/Ritilin for Depression?, posted by Katz on January 23, 2001, at 19:02:07
I have tried so many anti-depressants over the last 12 years that I would be embarrassed to talk about it anywhere other than a forum like this one. The single most effective drug I have taken is RITAIN. I know that all these meds are idiosincratic and what works for some may not work, or even may exacerbate symtoms for others. I am a recovering alcholic. RITAIN has not been addictive for me. I can tell you if I had been able to get it as a teenager you might have thought I was addicted, as I would certainly have shown a great liking for it. Because it makes me feel better. It has powerful mood elavating properties. Now days it comes in smoother release formats as Concerta. Why is it that if a drug works really well for some people, it is suddenly under suspicion? Ritalin may be speed but it helps my depresion considerably. My doctor and I constantly dinker with other meds trying to find a combo that will move me to a better level of functioning. But the constant is Ritalin. I am currently undertaking a trial of Reboxetine/Edronax. I'm not so sure about it. I'm going to post a seperate message about that experience though. This web site is a wonderful service. Thank Dr.Bob whoever you are.
Posted by Katz on January 27, 2001, at 8:43:58
In reply to Re: Reboxetine/Ritalin - what about ADHD? » Katz, posted by Leonardo on January 26, 2001, at 5:12:16
>Hi Leonardo,
I agree with everything you have said about your treatment stratergy. I'll be thinking about you and wishing you well. Please keep us posted on your progrees. I'd love to hear your reactions to the Zoloft and Effexor. I will do the same with any new drugs that I try.
I'm off the Reboxetine know and hope to begin my trial of andrafinil and amisulpride by the end of next week. I let you know how it goes.
Blessings & best wishes,
Kathy
Hi Katz
>
> I haven't had chance to try the amisulpride/adrafinil, but I will try to get some. I am in a 4 week washout period from deprenyl at the moment before my Pdoc will let me start Zoloft. I am willing to risk taking Ritalin at this time, it is quick acting and quick to clear, but it may not be worth starting the amisulpride/adrafinil as it takes a while to take effect, and would confuse things when I start the Zoloft.
>
> I hope the stuff works for you! Keep us posted. I will keep working on my Pdoc for the ADHD and a trial of stims, but I think I need to trial at least Zoloft and Effexor before he will agree...
>
> Best wishes
> Leonardo
>
> > Hi Leonardo,
> >
> > Thank you for that quick response. Have you tried the combination of andrafinil & amisulpride that John recommends? Perhaps you should give it a try before going the Ritilin route. If it works, it sounds like it would be a kinder, gentler albeit very effective treatment. I know that you can't order from sources inside your own country but I'm sure you can find sources elsewhere, e.g. Mexico, Italy, etc. Perhaps someone with that information could post it here.
> >
> > As for the paxil. I don't feel I need it. At least not yet. I have not found the energizing effects of Rebox overwhelming. Now that I am beginning my dosing during the daytime, I doubt I will have a problem sleeping. In the event that I do, I will keep your Paxil suggestion in mind although I would really hate to increase my seratonin levels under any circumstances. Infact, now that I think about it, if sleep does become a problem, I think Melatonin might be a better choice for me.
> >
> > Leonardo, if you believe you have ADHD you should discuss it with your doctor immediately. He might be willing to introduce the stims more readily. I don't believe that I have either ADHD or ADD although I do believe there is some frontal lobe inactivity involved which is causing my anhedonia and possibly my social phobia. Who knows, unless one can actually look at the brain activity, it's just speculation as to what is really going on.
> >
> > Good luck,
> >
> > Kathy
Posted by Katz on January 27, 2001, at 8:50:39
In reply to Re: Reboxetine/Ritilin for Depression?, posted by HenryO on January 26, 2001, at 15:00:09
> Hi Henry,
"Right-on" about the Ritilin. It seems that it has helped many people on this board with depression whereas nothing else has. Your lucky to have a pdoc who prescribes it for you. How long have you been on the Ritilin and how much are you taking?
Yes, this is a wonderful website and I second your motion: "Thankyou Dr. Bob"!
I'm looking forward to reading your new post.
Best wishes,
Kathy
I have tried so many anti-depressants over the last 12 years that I would be embarrassed to talk about it anywhere other than a forum like this one. The single most effective drug I have taken is RITAIN. I know that all these meds are idiosincratic and what works for some may not work, or even may exacerbate symtoms for others. I am a recovering alcholic. RITAIN has not been addictive for me. I can tell you if I had been able to get it as a teenager you might have thought I was addicted, as I would certainly have shown a great liking for it. Because it makes me feel better. It has powerful mood elavating properties. Now days it comes in smoother release formats as Concerta. Why is it that if a drug works really well for some people, it is suddenly under suspicion? Ritalin may be speed but it helps my depresion considerably. My doctor and I constantly dinker with other meds trying to find a combo that will move me to a better level of functioning. But the constant is Ritalin. I am currently undertaking a trial of Reboxetine/Edronax. I'm not so sure about it. I'm going to post a seperate message about that experience though. This web site is a wonderful service. Thank Dr.Bob whoever you are.
Posted by HenryO on January 29, 2001, at 1:32:24
In reply to Re: Reboxetine/Ritilin for Depression? » HenryO, posted by Katz on January 27, 2001, at 8:50:39
Hey Kathy, I take Ritalin as I need it. I've been on it for maybe three years or more. Often 20mgs when I wake up. If I am up early enough in the day I just take Concerta 36mgs. I have found that I do experience its effectiveness diminishing over time, say 3-4 months. If I go off it for a time say again 3-4 months then when I return to it, its effectiveness is dramatic. That may be due to "poop out", it may also be the ebb and flow of my disease. I try not to go off and on it though, I pretty much take it daily. Somedays I need the crunch of the regular release but usually I preffer the sustained release. I NEVER get the genaric. I found early on that it was not the same at all.
Yes, I am lucky to have found a good doctor. He is a biological psychiatrist.
I must tell you that I have worked up bit of a cocktail. I take prozac 20mgs, the Ritalin (or Concerta) and Pindolol (a.k.a Visken) 5-10 mgs which is a tiny dose I think. The Pindolol is the catalist that seems to make the whole thing work, for me. Without it I am wiped-out with enervating depression. Pindolol doesn't work for most people but for me it stops the pain. I don't feel "happy" but when nothing else was working that is good enough, believe me.
I went off my "cocktail" for a month or so around November. I was experiencing some intermitant erectile interferance. It wasn't a prudent move. It almost seems to be a side affect of improved mood to want to get off meds. Anyway I was plowed under by my depression. No surprize. My doctor told me meds are 4 to 5 times better at preventing depression than they are at curing it. That made sense to me. I've heard many times before not to quit taking them abruptly but there is something that seems to make all of us want to think we don't need them when we are feeling good.
OK on to a new post Reboxetine/Edronax
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