![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 5 to 29 of 37. Go back in thread:
Posted by Kim on June 6, 2000, at 1:19:07
In reply to Re: Anybody been fired by their pdoc?, posted by paul on June 6, 2000, at 0:54:33
Snowie, that guy is a jerk! I don't understand why anyone wants to be a Pdoc when they don't really care about people--but I think that's the case about 50% of the time.
I "fired" a Pdoc in March. Just last week I got a very impersonal letter from him informing me that his office was no longer treating me. He made it sound like it was his decision rather than mine. The letter also said his office would help me find a new doctor. (Geez, like I'd trust his recommendation.) Anyway, I showed it to my therapist.
He said that it was a liability issue (CYA) because there can be major problems for the Pdoc if he just leaves you hanging out to dry and then you go off the deep end or something.
Also, when I called my insurance company to request their permission to get a new doctor, they asked if I wanted to file a complaint about the old one. If this jerk was on your insurance plan, you might want to consider complaining to them. (Your insurance company doesn't want to get sued either, and if he's a bad doc they'll be leary of recommending him to someone else.)
Posted by kazoo on June 6, 2000, at 1:27:03
In reply to Anybody been fired by their pdoc?, posted by Snowie on June 5, 2000, at 21:03:43
> Anybody experience anything like this before?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Greetz to Snowie.Consider yourself *lucky* you escaped from this loser, good grief!
If he shares information about you with your sister, bring him up on charges
with the APA, AMA and your state's medical board (he sounds stupid and
vindictive enough to do this).What I believe happened in your case is that he felt *intimidated* by you,
evidenced by the fact that he kept referring to your internet knowledge.
Obviously, he's not into this medium (a shame in itself), and resents the
fact that you are; however, using this as cause to discontinue his services
is shabby, at best, and says little about his character and professionalism.You are well rid of him, my dear.
As far as being shit-canned by a doctor, I join the ranks as well. This used
to bother me, but now I just slough it off as a rotten experience.
kazoo
Posted by Snowie on June 6, 2000, at 1:42:48
In reply to Re: Anybody been fired by their pdoc?, posted by Janice on June 5, 2000, at 22:31:50
> Yes me Snowie. It was a mutual fire…I'm sure he thinks he fired me, and I like to think I fired him. I thought he was one twisted cookie. He would say to me, 'Well, you're the analytical one' and 'well, you're the one who knows so much about your disorders' and 'why are you always so dramatic'. He didn't like the fact I knew so much about my disorders.
Sounds like my ex pdoc. What's wrong with being informed? I was never rude, nor did I rub his nose in it. However, I was looking for a new pdoc when this happened, but I wanted to take my time.
> I was a generic patient to him (he wanted me to be like a blank white sheet) and everyone does cognitive therapy.Mine wanted me to be a "yes" woman, but that's not me. It's my body ... I should have some say as to what goes into it. However, I was always willing to listen to him, but he didn't give much advice except to criticize and make fun of me.
> Snowie, just because they are your psychiatrist doesn't mean much. I've always made a personal observation that many twisted individuals seem to get attracted to the helping professions (especially priests). Of course, most are decent, sincere people.This guy seemed sincere when he was hugging me or asking sexual questions. He made me feel a little uncomfortable at times. I don't think it's appropriate for a pdoc to hug his or her patient. If that makes me a prude, so be it.
> I've hoped I've helped or at least made sense.Yes, you have.
> He was very unprofessional--this is the part that would have especially upset me. Take care, JaniceI know, but it's still a little scary.
ps. I now have a psychiatrist I like alot.
I know, and I'll find one too. That will be my best revenge.
Snowie
Posted by Snowie on June 6, 2000, at 1:53:59
In reply to Re: Anybody been fired by their pdoc?, posted by paul on June 6, 2000, at 0:54:33
Paul,
My ex-pdoc told me he would call in a scrip for 2 weeks of Xanax (sounds like he gave me a 2-week notice), but that he was discharging me as his patient. I guess he was a little more thoughtful than your guy.
No ... I don't want to do anything about this, because 1) I don't want him to be forced to treat me, and 2) I don't want to ever see or hear from him again. I have no interest in talking or writing to him, nor do I need his wimpy explanation. My silence will speak very loudly. I'm done with him.
I sure hope I find someone good also, but I'm a little numb right now. I really don't know what to feel. I'm sad and relieved all at the same time. Very scared too.
Snowie
Posted by Snowie on June 6, 2000, at 2:07:43
In reply to Re: Anybody been fired by their pdoc?, posted by Kim on June 6, 2000, at 1:19:07
> Snowie, that guy is a jerk! I don't understand why anyone wants to be a Pdoc when they don't really care about people--but I think that's the case about 50% of the time.
No doubt he's a jerk. It's about money, I think. Maybe I'm getting jaded these days, but I feel that's true for most pdocs. Of course, Dr. Bob is excluded.
> I "fired" a Pdoc in March. Just last week I got a very impersonal letter from him informing me that his office was no longer treating me. He made it sound like it was his decision rather than mine. The letter also said his office would help me find a new doctor. (Geez, like I'd trust his recommendation.) Anyway, I showed it to my therapist.haha ... that's what his receptionist said to me on the phone ... he would no longer be treating me. I was looking for someone else anyway, but I had an appointment with my ex-pdoc on 6/23. I guess that's cancelled now, right? He didn't or hasn't offered to find me a new pdoc, but he knows I'm seeing a psychologist who could make a recommendation. I wouldn't see anybody my ex-pdoc recommended anyway.
> He said that it was a liability issue (CYA) because there can be major problems for the Pdoc if he just leaves you hanging out to dry and then you go off the deep end or something.Well, I don't intend to go off the deep end, but I've had several crying jags since. It's probably a liability for him, but I don't intend to pursue it. Sometimes it's best to move on as quickly as possible to start erasing the bad memories.
> Also, when I called my insurance company to request their permission to get a new doctor, they asked if I wanted to file a complaint about the old one. If this jerk was on your insurance plan, you might want to consider complaining to them. (Your insurance company doesn't want to get sued either, and if he's a bad doc they'll be leary of recommending him to someone else.)He was on my old insurance, but not the one I have now. I might have reported him had that been the case, but in spite of the fact that I work for attorneys, I'm not a litigious person. I'd rather forget it and move on to someone I respect and who respects me.
Snowie
Posted by Snowie on June 6, 2000, at 2:14:24
In reply to Re: Anybody been fired by their pdoc?, posted by Cindy W on June 5, 2000, at 21:48:17
Thanks for your support, Cindy. I hate to bad-mouth anybody, but what he did IMHO was very low and unprofessional. My eyes are red from crying about it, even though he's not worth it. I'll live and be much wiser in the future.
Snowie
> Snowie, I'm sorry to hear about your experience. It was pretty chickensh*t of the therapist to not tell you in person why he was acting that way, and he should have referred you to another therapist, I think. Being "fired" by my pdoc is one of my fears (since I also am always taking in information from my "internet friends"). You are likely right that you will probably be better off with a new therapist, since your therapist obviously was threatened by your information seeking (which to me seems important when you're trying to work together to get better), and if he was also uncaring, you don't need that! Hang in there. I hope you find a much better therapist soon. In the meantime, please realize that you are cared about by people here.--Cindy W
Posted by Snowie on June 6, 2000, at 2:37:24
In reply to Re: Anybody been fired by their pdoc?, posted by kazoo on June 6, 2000, at 1:27:03
Kazoo,
My mother is livid. Neither she nor I intend to tell my sister (who is bipolar and sometimes suicidal), since we're afraid she might go off the deep end. After all, he did this to me ... he could easily do it to her. However, if he has any sense he won't mention my name again.
Yeah, he was very intimidated by me, but without good reason. He made it very clear that he does not like the internet, nor any other type of research. He told me not too long ago that he belives everything I need to know should come from him and him alone. He actually said that if he were to pull a button from his shirt, hand it to me and say, "This button will make you better," I should believe it just because he says it is so. Looking back, that's spooky. I think that poor guy needs therapy worse than I do.
Thanks for responding and making me feel better. I'm starting to remember more of the weird things he has said and done over the years. It's really amazing that I stuck with him for 5 years.
Snowie
> > Anybody experience anything like this before?
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Greetz to Snowie.
>
> Consider yourself *lucky* you escaped from this loser, good grief!
> If he shares information about you with your sister, bring him up on charges
> with the APA, AMA and your state's medical board (he sounds stupid and
> vindictive enough to do this).
>
> What I believe happened in your case is that he felt *intimidated* by you,
> evidenced by the fact that he kept referring to your internet knowledge.
> Obviously, he's not into this medium (a shame in itself), and resents the
> fact that you are; however, using this as cause to discontinue his services
> is shabby, at best, and says little about his character and professionalism.
>
> You are well rid of him, my dear.
>
> As far as being shit-canned by a doctor, I join the ranks as well. This used
> to bother me, but now I just slough it off as a rotten experience.
>
>
> kazoo
Posted by Cindy W on June 6, 2000, at 9:25:05
In reply to Re: Anybody been fired by their pdoc?, posted by Snowie on June 6, 2000, at 2:14:24
> Thanks for your support, Cindy. I hate to bad-mouth anybody, but what he did IMHO was very low and unprofessional. My eyes are red from crying about it, even though he's not worth it. I'll live and be much wiser in the future.
>
> Snowie
>
>
> > Snowie, I'm sorry to hear about your experience. It was pretty chickensh*t of the therapist to not tell you in person why he was acting that way, and he should have referred you to another therapist, I think. Being "fired" by my pdoc is one of my fears (since I also am always taking in information from my "internet friends"). You are likely right that you will probably be better off with a new therapist, since your therapist obviously was threatened by your information seeking (which to me seems important when you're trying to work together to get better), and if he was also uncaring, you don't need that! Hang in there. I hope you find a much better therapist soon. In the meantime, please realize that you are cared about by people here.--Cindy WSnowie, unfortunately there are bad apples as well as good apples, in any profession, and it sounds like you got one of the bad ones! I'm so sorry that happened to you.--Cindy W
Posted by Rockets on June 6, 2000, at 9:54:20
In reply to Re: Anybody been fired by their pdoc?, posted by Cindy W on June 6, 2000, at 9:25:05
I think we should set our expectations a little more realistically. pdocs are trained medication dispensers who make quite a bit of money to do that. Sometimes you get lucky and find one that is more than that. They usually charge more too. I personally use a really good pre-qualified psychologist/counselor for emotional support and therapy. I only expect my pdoc to dispense the right medications properly. Most pdocs are not psychologists. Their training is different.
Posted by kazoo on June 6, 2000, at 10:50:50
In reply to Re: Anybody been fired by their pdoc?, posted by Snowie on June 6, 2000, at 2:37:24
> Kazoo,
>
> My mother is livid. Neither she nor I intend to tell my sister (who is bipolar and sometimes suicidal), since we're afraid she might go off the deep end. After all, he did this to me ... he could easily do it to her. However, if he has any sense he won't mention my name again.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
How are you sure that he's not doing this to your sister, but she's too distressed to recognize, much less understand, the import of his actions?
How effective a physician can this person be if he willy-nilly discharges you simply because he cannot "control" you?
Remember: he can do more damage than good. I'd get her away from this guy ASAP.
Also, I thought it wasn't an accepted practice for psychiatrists to treat members of the same family? I don't know of any who do this.kazoo
Posted by Snowie on June 6, 2000, at 11:59:17
In reply to Re: Anybody been fired by their pdoc? (2), posted by kazoo on June 6, 2000, at 10:50:50
> How are you sure that he's not doing this to your sister, but she's too distressed to recognize, much less understand, the import of his actions?
Kazoo, I don't know that since he has never discussed her with me, except to say that her problems are worse than mine.
> How effective a physician can this person be if he willy-nilly discharges you simply because he cannot "control" you?
He's a "mature" man, probably in his early 60s. (According to his internet bio, he graduated in 1958.) He couldn't "control" me like he has my sister (who is afraid of him), but I always listened when he gave me good advice, which unfortunately wasn't that often.
> Remember: he can do more damage than good. I'd get her away from this guy ASAP.
It's not my decision. If my mother can find another pdoc for my sis, I expect she will. I'll respect whatever decision they make; however, if they decide to keep him, I won't want to hear anything more about him.
> Also, I thought it wasn't an accepted practice for psychiatrists to treat members of the same family? I don't know of any who do this.
You're probably right, but my sister lives in a different city with my mother. I live alone in Tampa (we're both single). Also, our problems are totally different, hers being much more severe than mine. Doesn't mean my problems aren't important to me, but then again, I've never been Baker Acted nor tried to kill myself. And I certainly wouldn't go over the edge because of this ... I wouldn't give my ex-pdoc the satisfaction.
Snowie
Posted by Greg on June 6, 2000, at 12:16:49
In reply to Re: Anybody been fired by their pdoc? (2), posted by Snowie on June 6, 2000, at 11:59:17
Snowie,
Sorry to intrude here, but I was curious. What does Baker Acted mean? It's a term I've never heard before.
Greg
Posted by kazoo on June 6, 2000, at 16:13:00
In reply to Re: Anybody been fired by their pdoc? (2), posted by Snowie on June 6, 2000, at 11:59:17
> > How are you sure that he's not doing this to your sister, but she's too distressed to recognize, much less understand, the import of his actions?
>
> Kazoo, I don't know that since he has never discussed her with me, except to say that her problems are worse than mine.
>
> > How effective a physician can this person be if he willy-nilly discharges you simply because he cannot "control" you?
>
> He's a "mature" man, probably in his early 60s. (According to his internet bio, he graduated in 1958.) He couldn't "control" me like he has my sister (who is afraid of him), but I always listened when he gave me good advice, which unfortunately wasn't that often.
>
> > Remember: he can do more damage than good. I'd get her away from this guy ASAP.
>
> It's not my decision. If my mother can find another pdoc for my sis, I expect she will. I'll respect whatever decision they make; however, if they decide to keep him, I won't want to hear anything more about him.
>
> > Also, I thought it wasn't an accepted practice for psychiatrists to treat members of the same family? I don't know of any who do this.
>
> You're probably right, but my sister lives in a different city with my mother. I live alone in Tampa (we're both single). Also, our problems are totally different, hers being much more severe than mine. Doesn't mean my problems aren't important to me, but then again, I've never been Baker Acted nor tried to kill myself. And I certainly wouldn't go over the edge because of this ... I wouldn't give my ex-pdoc the satisfaction.
>
> Snowie
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Snowie, my dear,>>"He's a "mature" man, ..."
(For the lack of a better word, I suppose.)
A "mature" man doesn't intimidate people simply because they know more than he does.
A "mature" man make people fear him.
A "mature" man isn't a control freak.
A "mature" man doesn't dole out good advice selectively.And this guy is a "doctor"?
I'm sorry, Snowie, but I disagree with you whole-heartedly about having Sis still
see him.>>" ... if they decide to keep him, I won't want to hear anything more about him."
And, by all means, stay on top of the situation and monitor what's going on.
I wouldn't throw caution to the wind in this situation!kazoo
Posted by Archangel on June 6, 2000, at 16:33:10
In reply to Re: Anybody been fired by their pdoc? (2) » Snowie, posted by Greg on June 6, 2000, at 12:16:49
> Snowie,
>
> Sorry to intrude here, but I was curious. What does Baker Acted mean? It's a term I've never heard before.
>
> Greg_________________________________________________
Greg,
I don't know all of the legalities but I do have a friend in Florida who was "Baker Acted" a few years ago. Apparently, someone can claim you are a threat to yourself and have you locked up for a few days of psychiatric observation.
Here's my buddy's story: His ex-girlfriend and a coconspirator "Baker Acted" him out of some very vicious spite. It happened on a Friday night and it took him all weekend to find a judge who would spring him :)
I think the Baker Act is a Florida phenomenon. Perhaps someone out there will fill us in on the specifics of who, what, where, when and how.
Best regards,
Archangel (Michael)
Posted by Archangel on June 6, 2000, at 16:40:28
In reply to Re: Anybody been fired by their pdoc? (2) » Snowie, posted by Greg on June 6, 2000, at 12:16:49
> Snowie,
>
> Sorry to intrude here, but I was curious. What does Baker Acted mean? It's a term I've never heard before.
>
> Greg_________________________________________________
Greg, regarding my previous post in this thread:
I should have said I don't know *ANY* of the legalities of the Baker Act. Saying that I don't know "all" of them implies that I know something, which clearly I do not :) All I have is hearsay information. ~ Archangel (Michael)
Posted by Greg on June 6, 2000, at 17:26:42
In reply to Re: Anybody been fired by their pdoc? (2) » Greg, posted by Archangel on June 6, 2000, at 16:40:28
> > Snowie,
> >
> > Sorry to intrude here, but I was curious. What does Baker Acted mean? It's a term I've never heard before.
> >
> > Greg
>
> _________________________________________________
>
> Greg, regarding my previous post in this thread:
> I should have said I don't know *ANY* of the legalities of the Baker Act. Saying that I don't know "all" of them implies that I know something, which clearly I do not :) All I have is hearsay information. ~ Archangel (Michael)Arch,
What I like most about Babble is that I learn something new everyday. Thanks for responding. I'm now a day older....and smarter.
Greg
Posted by Snowie on June 6, 2000, at 19:10:10
In reply to Re: Anybody been fired by their pdoc? (2) » Snowie, posted by Greg on June 6, 2000, at 12:16:49
Greg,
Sorry ... I'm in Florida. I forgot the Baker Act is a Florida legislative creation, not Federal. My sister was Baker Acted by a law enforcement officer when she took a truckload of pain killers and sleeping pills last year. If you're interested, you can copy and paste the URL below which explains more about Florida's Baker Act.
Snowie
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/citizen/documents/statutes/1997/ch0394/E463__.HTM#0394.463
>Snowie,
>Sorry to intrude here, but I was curious. What does Baker Acted mean? It's a term I've never heard before.
>
> Greg
Posted by Dave A on June 6, 2000, at 20:23:44
In reply to Anybody been fired by their pdoc?, posted by Snowie on June 5, 2000, at 21:03:43
> After 5 years, the receptionist in my pdoc's office told me today that my pdoc would be discontinuing his services to me. In a word, I was shocked, and after I hung up the telephone I began to cry, probably from the fear of abandonment more than anything else. Actually, I should have fired him years ago, but I didn't because of our long association. It's strange, but I never felt like he really understood me nor cared ... obviously, I know now that he didn't. I've heard of people firing their pdocs, but I've never heard of a pdoc firing a patient. I know this too shall pass and he probably was doing me a favor, but I'm feeling extremely vulnerable right now. Was the fact that I research the internet really so imtimidating? He was so nasty toward the end, and every question of mine was followed by some sarcastic "ask your internet friends" type response. Paul, I certainly understand what you went through now. I guess surviving and doing well is the best revenge, but first I have to find a replacement. It's also a little awkward since my sister still uses him, and I don't want to jeopardize her relationship with him. At the same time, I don't want him to know anything further about me, and I don't want to know anything further about him. Anybody experience anything like this before?
>
> Snowie
Hi:I have had this dismissal experience several times in the past, although in a more subtle, nicer manner.
Mainly, the doctor is too dumb to understand how
to treat my situation which I believe is fairly
straight forward. One thing I've learned is that the two main things most important things to a doctor are getting paid and not getting sued.
They really don't care if you get better or not.There are exceptions, of course, and these are the
doctors you should try to find. Also, I think
psychiatrists are a better bet than psychologists.
It is much easier to become a psychologis,
and thus psychiatrists are more likely to be
intelligent, and understand how to treat your
problem. I mention this because, once I went to
a psychologist, and he greatly exacerbated my
problem because he didn't know what he was doing.Luck,
Dave
Posted by Janice on June 6, 2000, at 23:20:54
In reply to Re: Anybody been fired by their pdoc?, posted by Snowie on June 6, 2000, at 1:42:48
Hi Snowie,
Well I don't know you well, but you sound much better today. I can easily see how strong your personality is.
I was reading your postings to everyone, and this guy sounds so much like the psychiatrist I saw--even their ages are the same. Maybe at one time, the criticizing and making fun of patients, was some kind of official therapy. And these two never got over it.
I agree it's not appropriate for a pdoc to hug their patients or to inappropriately talk about sex.
Now you sound good and you say you don't want to sue or report him. I got quite a bit of satisfaction screaming at him (he was so shook-up, it took him 3 tries to write my lithium prescription). I also got satisfaction from both my family doctor and new pdoc telling me that I was right, and what he did was wrong (he actually lied). I also got satisfaction from reporting him to the College of Surgeons and Physicians.
But if you are fine, you are fine. You will probably be very pleasantly surprised with your next pdoc. THe other pdoc I've had never had anything but my best interest at hand.
I hope you find someone like this Snowie.
Janice
Posted by Kim on June 7, 2000, at 0:40:40
In reply to It's all about the Benjamins, posted by Rockets on June 6, 2000, at 9:54:20
> I think we should set our expectations a little more realistically. pdocs are trained medication dispensers who make quite a bit of money to do that. Sometimes you get lucky and find one that is more than that. They usually charge more too. I personally use a really good pre-qualified psychologist/counselor for emotional support and therapy. I only expect my pdoc to dispense the right medications properly. Most pdocs are not psychologists. Their training is different.
Rockets--That's why I fired my Pdoc. I was only seeing him for "medication management," but he was still a jerk. He once told me I should work with my therapist on my "psychotic delusions"--which was his interpretation of my comment that I didn't feel like I should do something fun unless my house was clean. (Obsessive, maybe, but not psychotic or delusional.)
But the final straw was that he did NOT prescribe my medication correctly. He told me to take temazepam up to three times a day. He thought it was an anti-anxiety, and it's a sleeping pill. Fortunately my pharmacist caught the error.
I think you're right, it must be about money. The information sheet he gave me on my first visit said that his office "chooses not to handle emergencies," and was limited to patients who were not "seriously disturbed." In other words, the easy bucks.
Posted by Snowie on June 7, 2000, at 6:54:44
In reply to Re: It's all about the Benjamins, posted by Kim on June 7, 2000, at 0:40:40
Rockets and Kim,
What's wrong with wanting it all? I understand that most pdocs are nothing more than med dispensers because that's what the insurance companies require them to be. However, not all pdocs are willing or content to be puppets of the insurance industry. And pdocs ARE trained in therapy, but many forego that aspect of their training because they can make more money by dispensing meds for patients who constantly march in and out, much like an assembly line. My ex-pdoc saw me for 10 minutes every other month or so. How can any pdoc know what meds a patient needs in that amount of time? IMHO, he can't ... only a pdoc who has spent TIME listening and conversing with a patient can correctly identify the problems of the patient in order to prescribe the proper meds for that individual. For the rest of the pdocs, it's just a hit or miss proposition, which seems to be forcing many of us to research our own meds. Also, although it is about money in general, my pdoc's bills were always paid in full at every visit. He got his ... I'm still wondering what I got.
Snowie
> > I think we should set our expectations a little more realistically. pdocs are trained medication dispensers who make quite a bit of money to do that. Sometimes you get lucky and find one that is more than that. They usually charge more too. I personally use a really good pre-qualified psychologist/counselor for emotional support and therapy. I only expect my pdoc to dispense the right medications properly. Most pdocs are not psychologists. Their training is different.
>
> Rockets--That's why I fired my Pdoc. I was only seeing him for "medication management," but he was still a jerk. He once told me I should work with my therapist on my "psychotic delusions"--which was his interpretation of my comment that I didn't feel like I should do something fun unless my house was clean. (Obsessive, maybe, but not psychotic or delusional.)
>
> But the final straw was that he did NOT prescribe my medication correctly. He told me to take temazepam up to three times a day. He thought it was an anti-anxiety, and it's a sleeping pill. Fortunately my pharmacist caught the error.
>
> I think you're right, it must be about money. The information sheet he gave me on my first visit said that his office "chooses not to handle emergencies," and was limited to patients who were not "seriously disturbed." In other words, the easy bucks.
Posted by Greg on June 7, 2000, at 8:07:46
In reply to Florida's Baker Act, posted by Snowie on June 6, 2000, at 19:10:10
2. A law enforcement officer shall take a person who appears to meet the criteria for involuntary examination into custody and deliver the person or have him or her delivered to the nearest receiving facility for examination.
Wow! I don't think I'd want a California policeman being able to make the decision on whether or not I "met the criteria". Cal cops already have far too much latitude when it comes to making arrests. I believe here, at the minimum, a Psychotherapist must be called to the scene to make that call (I could be wrong). This made for some VERY interesting reading!
Do you feel this law is a justifiable one? I would think that a cop would have to be trained in Psychology before being allowed to make a decision to institutionalize (sp?) someone. Otherwise any cop having a bad day could put someone away. I wonder if there are other states that have laws similar to this?
JMHO
Greg
Posted by Kim on June 7, 2000, at 15:34:46
In reply to Re: It's all about the Benjamins, posted by Snowie on June 7, 2000, at 6:54:44
My ex-pdoc saw me for 10 minutes every other month or so. How can any pdoc know what meds a patient needs in that amount of time? IMHO, he can't ... only a pdoc who has spent TIME listening and conversing with a patient can correctly identify the problems of the patient in order to prescribe the proper meds for that individual.
Snowie,
I agree 100%. But my insurance company won't pay for me to see a Pdoc for therapy, only medication management. Then they pay my psychologist for therapy. The insurance company thinks they're saving money. And I sure couldn't pay it on my own.I don't know why the insurance company can't understand that having one person do both would probably help me get better more quickly. Instead I keep slogging through therapy and getting no where, and slogging through different medications which don't work.
Kim
Posted by Rockets on June 7, 2000, at 18:20:57
In reply to Re: It's all about the Benjamins--both ways, posted by Kim on June 7, 2000, at 15:34:46
As Chief Lone Watie said to the evil carpetbagger in that Clint Eastwood movie [The Outlaw Josey Wales] (http://www.clinteastwood.net/welcome.html) when the carpetbagger tried to sell him some "special formula" that was "good for most anything": What's in it? The evil carpetbagger was speechless and stuttered out "I really don't know.. I'm just the salesman." To which Chief Lone Watie replied "then you drink it" as he walked away.
Posted by Adam on June 7, 2000, at 22:00:04
In reply to Anybody been fired by their pdoc?, posted by Snowie on June 5, 2000, at 21:03:43
Snowie,
If you haven't left out any details, this does sound rather abrubt and confusing.
Did the doctor offer any explanation at all beyond his testyness at your asserting
yourself?Anyway, this is a tough question for me, as I don't know for certain if I have been
"fired" or not. But if I have, it has happened at least once, and possibly twice.
The first time, I had to leave my old physician because I changed jobs and insurance.
I was on Welbutrin, but decided on my own to stop it, as it didn't seem to be doing
much of anything for me. After a few months of more depression as usual and no
progress in therapy, I sought out a new doc. I laid out from the beginning my history,
the lack of results I had gotten from drugs, X, Y, Z, etc., the side effects I hoped
to avoid, and so on. We tried Welbutrin again, but no dice.We decided on Serzone as a
possible solution. I started taking Serzone in small doses, saw no improvement, and
then began aggressively upping the dose. I started to get, if anything, worse, with a
great deal of anxiety accompanying my depression. My doctor had me stay on the drug,
and continued to up the dose. After about a month and a half, I came to the
conclusion that Serzone just wasn't doing it for me. I was feeling not just depressed,
but rather frenzied. It was going from oppressive to mind-numbing. He told me to
stay on the Serzone, and augmented with clozapine. No improvement, and really things
got even worse. I, after coming very close to killing myself on the highway
(deliberately), checked myself into the hospital.About a week into the visit, my doctor called. He said that while he did not object to
me as a person in any way, he was dissatisfied with our arrangement, meaning that he
preferred to administer both psychopharmacological and psychotherapeutic care to his
patients, not just the former. When I reminded him that my insurance company made the
arrangement, he just continued, saying that he was glad to hear that I was getting ECT,
that he wished me the best of luck in my treatment, and that was it.I suppose I could take him at his word, but he knew from the outset what his role as
my physician was, and made no mention of changing until after I landed in Mass.
General (a move I made on my own, by the way, at the hypothetical recommendation of
my psychotherapist, who had originally referred me to the doctor). Perhaps he was
really not happy all along, and just saw this as an opportune time to bail, I don't
know. Something just smacked if disingenuousness. I told the head resident as soon
as I saw him next. He was silent for a bit, and then said "we can refer you to
someone from here so you can be followed when you leave." Another therapist later on
also met the story with a disconcertingly long silence. He ended the pause with "Hmm.
Pretty slick."The next time was with the very physician I had been referred to. After seeing him
for a few months, and getting, again, nowhere on a drug combo. (initially Remeron, then
Remeron plus a very small dose of Zoloft), we began to talk about Parnate, which had
been recommended to me while I was in the hospital, though I was freaked out by what I
heard about the drug and opted then not to try it. At this point we were meeting once
per month. Between that visit and the next, I decided to enrol in a clinical trial of
the Selegiline transdermal system for depression. It was a study I had heard about
earlier, but could not try because I had receive ECT too recently. Now I could qualify,
so I went for it. My doctor was not at all happy. My therapist was even less happy.
I was a bit shocked, to be honest, at their response. The seemed a bit irritated with
me, and very irritated with the investigators in the trial, and I guess some heated
words were exchanged. If I had known my actions were going to create such a stir, I
might never have entered the study, which would have been a shame, to but it mildly.
Anyway, what followed was a period of six weeks where I was (at their insistance) seeing
my old p-doc, the therapist, and the docs in the trial on a weekly basis, which was
a big disruption of my life, since all the meetings were on different days, etc. It
wrought havoc with my work schedule. After the double-blind portion of the trial I went
into the open-label phase, and had a robust, almost hypomanic response within about three
days of initiation. I haven't been the same since, thank goodness.Well, I stayed with my old pdoc, who I genuinely liked, for a couple more months, but
we both decided that while the other docs were following me, and while I was doing so
well, we could take a breather and reassess when the trial was over. He actually called
me towards the end to see how I was doing. I left him a message saying I still wanted
to work with him because, even though selegiline was doing for me what I didn't thing was
possible from a drug, I still had some nagging anxiety concerns, and since he was an OCD
specialist (my other Dx), I wanted to know what he thought of some augmentation strategies
I was thinking of. I told him in the message my favorite candidate was inositol, and I
wondered what he thought of the safety of MAOI plus inositol. I said my reasoning was
that since it was involved with the 5-HT2C-receptor signalling pathway, which, as I was
sure he knew, was implicated in OCD, it might be worth trying, according to an Isreali
study, which I was also sure he already knew about.He didn't reply to my message, and I never heard from him again.
The trial ended. I was hoping I could continue with the docs. who ran the trial, but my
insurance company wouldn't let me. The doc. who was seeing me in the trial called my old
pdoc and asked him about seeing me again. My old doc replied that since he had no
expertise with selegiline, he didn't feel comfortable prescribing it. And that was that.
The head of the trial was quite skeptical about this explanation, but did not elaborate. He
just brushed it aside, saying they would be very happy to refer me to some very good
doctors in the outpatient clinic at McLean. It was deja-vu all over again.This new arrangement is working quite well, I must admit, so I have little cause to
complain, I suppose. But, well, the experience of doctors deciding for somewhat mysterious
reasons not to see me anymore, has been disconcerting. It has made me wonder on more than
one occasion if there is something unlikable about me as a patient. I have never been
rebellious, though I do have many of my own ideas, and share them often enough. I never
was non-compliant, though I voiced objections or concers if I wasn't comfortable at first.
I don't know what to think, really. I have to say, the way the relationships were severed
leaves me little nostalgia for them.
> After 5 years, the receptionist in my pdoc's office told me today that my pdoc would be discontinuing his services to me. In a word, I was shocked, and after I hung up the telephone I began to cry, probably from the fear of abandonment more than anything else. Actually, I should have fired him years ago, but I didn't because of our long association. It's strange, but I never felt like he really understood me nor cared ... obviously, I know now that he didn't. I've heard of people firing their pdocs, but I've never heard of a pdoc firing a patient. I know this too shall pass and he probably was doing me a favor, but I'm feeling extremely vulnerable right now. Was the fact that I research the internet really so imtimidating? He was so nasty toward the end, and every question of mine was followed by some sarcastic "ask your internet friends" type response. Paul, I certainly understand what you went through now. I guess surviving and doing well is the best revenge, but first I have to find a replacement. It's also a little awkward since my sister still uses him, and I don't want to jeopardize her relationship with him. At the same time, I don't want him to know anything further about me, and I don't want to know anything further about him. Anybody experience anything like this before?
>
> Snowie
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.