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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by KarenB on June 1, 2000, at 12:17:22
In reply to welcome back Cindy W…, posted by Janice on June 1, 2000, at 11:40:21
Hi Guys,
I've got to say, the hardest part for me is getting started. Once I do, my compulsive nature takes over and no dirt is safe. What I have done lately is pick one room or project and agree with myself to start it the following day, no matter what. It has worked. Last week, I re-organized my children's bedroom closet. Once I was going, I ended up organizing the hall closet and our bedroom drawers.
Another trick is not to let anything pile up - like someone said, don't handle anything twice. I throw away junk mail the minute I get it into my hands and rip off the payment stub of bills along with the envelope and put it in the "to be paid" drawer.
This doesn't seem like a big deal but I have found that if I have many things lingering in the back of my mind that need to be done, it creates a constant, low level of stress that does not help with the fatigue aspect of my illness. If my environment is under control. I feel more in control, for what it's worth.
Karen
Posted by Noa on June 1, 2000, at 16:17:12
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Cleanliness, posted by KarenB on June 1, 2000, at 12:17:22
Karen, sounds good, and in the days before my depression took on its recent form, that worked for me, too. But it's a whole 'nother universe in here now.
Posted by Cindy W on June 2, 2000, at 0:57:48
In reply to welcome back Cindy W…, posted by Janice on June 1, 2000, at 11:40:21
> hi
>
> the following example is what i mean by 'ritual':
>
> as soon as you get home from work and hang your coat up…spend 10 minutes cleaning.
>
> So EVERYDAY after hanging up your coat, you start cleaning. There are no questions about WHEN or HOW LONG you'll be cleaning for.
>
> I'm not sure if this type of ritual could become an OCD issue Cindy. Maybe ritual isn't the right word for what I meant.
>
> Hope your treefrog is well, JaniceJanice, thank you very much for the welcome back! Will try your suggestion for making something I do routinely as a cue for cleaning (since my OCD isn't related to cleaning, and since my house is always a mess, it couldn't hurt!).BTW, the treefrog is doing marvelously!--Cindy W
Posted by KarenB on June 2, 2000, at 16:25:57
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Cleanliness » KarenB, posted by Noa on June 1, 2000, at 16:17:12
> Karen, sounds good, and in the days before my depression took on its recent form, that worked for me, too. But it's a whole 'nother universe in here now.
Noa,
I don't know where you are but if you are anywhere near Denver, I'll come over and help you clean up that mess. It would be an honor:)
I'm not kidding...
Karen
Posted by Noa on June 2, 2000, at 16:53:50
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Cleanliness, posted by KarenB on June 2, 2000, at 16:25:57
Karen, thanks! Not near Denver, tho. You are so kind.
You sound like an organized person. Maybe you could start a business helping people get their places together and develop a system to keep them clean.
Posted by Sara T on June 2, 2000, at 21:28:08
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Cleanliness » KarenB, posted by Noa on June 2, 2000, at 16:53:50
> You sound like an organized person. Maybe you could start a business helping people get their places together and develop a system to keep them clean.
There are people who do that.
Sara T
Posted by Cindy W on June 2, 2000, at 22:15:08
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Cleanliness, posted by KarenB on June 2, 2000, at 16:25:57
> > Karen, sounds good, and in the days before my depression took on its recent form, that worked for me, too. But it's a whole 'nother universe in here now.
>
> Noa,
>
> I don't know where you are but if you are anywhere near Denver, I'll come over and help you clean up that mess. It would be an honor:)
>
> I'm not kidding...
>
> Karen
Karen, is Denver too far from Central Coast of California? I have the same problem I think as Noa! Maybe Noa and I should make a pact to clean and to praise one another as we make progress or something (?).--Cindy W
Posted by Jennifer on June 3, 2000, at 5:35:55
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Cleanliness, posted by Cindy W on June 2, 2000, at 22:15:08
Karen, I think Cindy has the wrong idea. I live south of her, so I think you need a "vacation" out in California. Head out to Cindy's to clean her house (she can stay with me) and then we'll head to her house while you do mine! Of course this is a joke, but I tend to go in spurts with my cleanliness. One time things was just too much going on in life, and my house went downhill fast. There was a TON of stuff in my livingroom and on the floor blocking the front door, but it didn't matter because we always left through the garage. Came home to find my living room clean and had NO idea who did it. Later found out my mom used her key, and after she worked for awhile to shove the door open, she decided to clean it herself. Talk about embarrassing! That was the one and only time my mom came in without my knowing..apparently they were driving thru and needed to use the restroom. We have a new house now, and my mom DOESN'T have a key! Jennifer
> > > Karen, sounds good, and in the days before my depression took on its recent form, that worked for me, too. But it's a whole 'nother universe in here now.
> >
> > Noa,
> >
> > I don't know where you are but if you are anywhere near Denver, I'll come over and help you clean up that mess. It would be an honor:)
> >
> > I'm not kidding...
> >
> > Karen
> Karen, is Denver too far from Central Coast of California? I have the same problem I think as Noa! Maybe Noa and I should make a pact to clean and to praise one another as we make progress or something (?).--Cindy W
Posted by KarenB on June 3, 2000, at 11:32:29
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Cleanliness, posted by Sara T on June 2, 2000, at 21:28:08
> > You sound like an organized person. Maybe you could start a business helping people get their places together and develop a system to keep them clean.
>
> There are people who do that.
>
> Sara TThat is not a bad idea, Sara - thank you for that!
I am organized - it is a coping mechanism I have learned in order to deal with my ADD. If I am not using something or feel it has no value in my life, I get rid of it. Too much "stuff" is completely overwhelming to me. Problem is, when something is missing, my husband says, "Karen's been cleaning..." I can be kind of anal about this, so it's not ALWAYS a good thing.
My mom says she needs me to come to her house (in Florida) to help her throw things away. Geez, if I could make a service out of it and get paid for throwing things away, what could be better than that?:)
Karen
Posted by Sara T on June 3, 2000, at 12:36:22
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Cleanliness, posted by KarenB on June 3, 2000, at 11:32:29
> > > You sound like an organized person. Maybe you could start a business helping people get their places together and develop a system to keep them clean.
> >
> > There are people who do that.
> >
> > Sara T
>
> That is not a bad idea, Sara - thank you for that!
>
> I am organized - it is a coping mechanism I have learned in order to deal with my ADD. If I am not using something or feel it has no value in my life, I get rid of it. Too much "stuff" is completely overwhelming to me. Problem is, when something is missing, my husband says, "Karen's been cleaning..." I can be kind of anal about this, so it's not ALWAYS a good thing.
>
> My mom says she needs me to come to her house (in Florida) to help her throw things away. Geez, if I could make a service out of it and get paid for throwing things away, what could be better than that?:)
>
> KarenI really wasn't kidding, they're called professional organizers, people who come into your home or office and help you straighten up you space or your files.
But as for cleaning and taking out the garbage, that requires a cleaning service, which can be a good investment for some. I've know some people who cleaned houses and made pretty good money at it though.
Maybe you could coach others with ADD?
Sara T.
Posted by Noa on June 3, 2000, at 13:12:34
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Cleanliness, posted by Sara T on June 3, 2000, at 12:36:22
That's it. Karen will have to do a grand tour, with appearances in Floriday, California, the East Coast, etc. Organizing from Coast to Coast.
Karen, your business could be a sort of organizer/conceirge service. After you work with the client to develop a plan, you hire the cleaning service for them, etc. Then, you work with them to develop a long term approach, a system to stay organized. You could do follow-up visits to see how they are progressing.
Posted by Sara T on June 3, 2000, at 22:27:45
In reply to Re: KarenB's Millenium Tour, posted by Noa on June 3, 2000, at 13:12:34
> That's it. Karen will have to do a grand tour, with appearances in Floriday, California, the East Coast, etc. Organizing from Coast to Coast.
>
> Karen, your business could be a sort of organizer/conceirge service. After you work with the client to develop a plan, you hire the cleaning service for them, etc. Then, you work with them to develop a long term approach, a system to stay organized. You could do follow-up visits to see how they are progressing.That's sounds like a plan! What do you think Karen?
Sara T
Posted by JennyR on June 4, 2000, at 16:54:03
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Perfectionism(JennyR), posted by CarolAnn on May 31, 2000, at 8:29:58
Sorry I took a while to respond. Are you asking about advice re:procrastination or perfectionism?
She didn't dwell on procrastination, other than noting the link. She did give a lot of good information on perfectionism. She recommended reading the chapter on perfectionism in the book "Feeling Good" by Dr. David Burn. I haven't done so yet (procrastination). I took a lot of notes. If it is advice on perfectionism you are seeking, I will look for it. I leave everything laying around and piling up til we are having company. Then I stash everything in sight into drawers, cabinets, closets, never to be found again. A maddening habit. But I think I can dig up my notes if you meant perfectionism, not procrastination.> Jenny, your post makes sense to me, too. In fact, I often call myself, "the lazy perfectionist", because perfectionism is the primary reason that I procrastinate! Can you list any of the *ways* that the workshop suggested to overcome this problem? I would really appreciate it. Best wishes! CarolAnn
Posted by KarenB on June 4, 2000, at 19:33:06
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Perfectionism(Carol Ann), posted by JennyR on June 4, 2000, at 16:54:03
Hi you guys,
Sorry I didn't respond right away. Procrastination, you know?
Good ideas, although I am not sure where to start first to get clients. No, that's really not true - if I were suggesting it to someone else I'd have tons of ideas. Truth is, I've been really up and down lately and can't count on my mood to be stable enough to start anything. Pitiful, huh? I should just start and worry about that later. START is the key word here and I guess that's what this thread is all about, anyway. How appropriate:)
Geez, am I rambling or what??!!
Oh, a cleaning tip for those of you who are currently challenged in that area: Clean in levels, not by rooms. For example, first start at the ceiling and do the cobwebs in every room. Then the ceiling fans or lights. Then the furniture, window sills, etc. and get rid of stuff hanging around on tables and countertops. Now, throw away everything you don't need that was unearthed by the other steps. I mean everything - be ruthless. The floor, obviously, is last and the hardest part - the home stretch. If you commit to do one level per day, NO MATTER WHAT, your house is presentable in less than a week. One week of pain. One less thing to separate you from other people. Clean is good. You can do it...you can do it... you can do it. It may seem HUGE but you can endure anything for one week, right? Maintenence consists of putting things away or throwing them away rather than "collecting" them.
Let me know what happens.
Karen
Posted by CarolAnn on June 5, 2000, at 9:21:00
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Perfectionism(Carol Ann), posted by JennyR on June 4, 2000, at 16:54:03
Hey Jenny! Someone else recommended that same book(Feeling Good) to me, so I really should get moving on reading it. I have a whole list of books recommended by people on this site, and have yet to even get my hands on one, let alone read it! I go to the library and end up with a stack full of fiction, I'm so bad! Take Care, CarolAnn
Posted by SLS on June 7, 2000, at 14:30:48
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Perfectionism(Carol Ann), posted by JennyR on June 4, 2000, at 16:54:03
> She didn't dwell on procrastination, other than noting the link. She did give a lot of good information on perfectionism. She recommended reading the chapter on perfectionism in the book "Feeling Good" by Dr. David Burn. I haven't done so yet (procrastination). I took a lot of notes. If it is advice on perfectionism you are seeking, I will look for it. I leave everything laying around and piling up til we are having company. Then I stash everything in sight into drawers, cabinets, closets, never to be found again. A maddening habit. But I think I can dig up my notes if you meant perfectionism, not procrastination.
I am interested in the role perfectionism plays in the cause or continuation of depressive illness. A doctor I once saw cited perfectionism specifically as an important contributor. What else can you tell about it?Thank you.
- Scott
I spent an hour making sure this post was perfect. I'm not sure it is.
Posted by JennyR on June 9, 2000, at 21:46:46
In reply to Re: Procrastination and Cleanliness, posted by Jennifer on June 3, 2000, at 5:35:55
Here's what's in my notes from the workshop I attended a few months back called "Letting Go of Perfectionism."
The leader is a therapist specializing in psychodrama who said she herself is a perfectionist and a procrastinator. She said it bugged her that the handouts weren't collated right.
Here are the points she made:
- Perfectionists are not people who line up their shoes all in a row. It has to do with what you expect of yourself and others. You are hard on yourself.
- Perfectionism is not something ingrained from the start. It's something we learn to become.
- Many perfectionists are procrastinators because you put something off if you can't do it perfectly.
- You may be too demanding of others, applying your unrealistic expectations to them as well.
- You may be very forgiving of others, excusing them in ways you wouldn't excuse yourself - like you must be on time but it's okay if they're late.
- You should strive for excellence rather than perfection.
- "Gray" is hard - perfectionists see things very black and white.
- You have to listen to your gut, not your head - you know when you're pushing yourself too hard, pushing the limits - when your stomach is in knots.
(like re-doing something so many times even when it's good, but it's never quite good enough for you).
- She tells her therapy clients "you're talking from your neck up" meaning ignoring their feelings.
- Perfectionists feel disappointed a lot - they never meet their impossible standards.
- People come to expect perfection from you - like the radishes will be cut into perfect little roses on the food.
- Letting go is hard for perfectionists.
- She uses psychodrama because she feels it gets to the gut.
- We all get used to our pain. We don't realize it doesn't have to be there.
- Before bed make a gratitude list of what you did that you liked. Or list 10 each of what you like and don't like about yourself.
- "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
- Two kinds of parents produce perfectionists.
First kind - If you're a kid and come home and say "Mommy, Mommy, I got a B+ and an 2 "A's on my tests. And the parent says "B+, why couldn't you get all "A"s?" Or you came in 3rd at the swim meet and the parent is disappointed in you.
Second kind - you come home and say "Mommy, Mommy, I got 3 "A's" and the parent, without even looking up from the newspaper says "that's nice dear." They are indifferent and you are forever trying to get their approval.
- We are kind to children. We wouldn't be harsh and stern to them. So we have to re-parent ourselves, treat ourselves as we would a child.
- Perfectionists tend to feel shame.I hope this is helpful.
Posted by Cindy W on June 9, 2000, at 22:17:25
In reply to Perfectionism (SLS/CarolAnn), posted by JennyR on June 9, 2000, at 21:46:46
> Here's what's in my notes from the workshop I attended a few months back called "Letting Go of Perfectionism."
> The leader is a therapist specializing in psychodrama who said she herself is a perfectionist and a procrastinator. She said it bugged her that the handouts weren't collated right.
> Here are the points she made:
> - Perfectionists are not people who line up their shoes all in a row. It has to do with what you expect of yourself and others. You are hard on yourself.
> - Perfectionism is not something ingrained from the start. It's something we learn to become.
> - Many perfectionists are procrastinators because you put something off if you can't do it perfectly.
> - You may be too demanding of others, applying your unrealistic expectations to them as well.
> - You may be very forgiving of others, excusing them in ways you wouldn't excuse yourself - like you must be on time but it's okay if they're late.
> - You should strive for excellence rather than perfection.
> - "Gray" is hard - perfectionists see things very black and white.
> - You have to listen to your gut, not your head - you know when you're pushing yourself too hard, pushing the limits - when your stomach is in knots.
> (like re-doing something so many times even when it's good, but it's never quite good enough for you).
> - She tells her therapy clients "you're talking from your neck up" meaning ignoring their feelings.
> - Perfectionists feel disappointed a lot - they never meet their impossible standards.
> - People come to expect perfection from you - like the radishes will be cut into perfect little roses on the food.
> - Letting go is hard for perfectionists.
> - She uses psychodrama because she feels it gets to the gut.
> - We all get used to our pain. We don't realize it doesn't have to be there.
> - Before bed make a gratitude list of what you did that you liked. Or list 10 each of what you like and don't like about yourself.
> - "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
> - Two kinds of parents produce perfectionists.
> First kind - If you're a kid and come home and say "Mommy, Mommy, I got a B+ and an 2 "A's on my tests. And the parent says "B+, why couldn't you get all "A"s?" Or you came in 3rd at the swim meet and the parent is disappointed in you.
> Second kind - you come home and say "Mommy, Mommy, I got 3 "A's" and the parent, without even looking up from the newspaper says "that's nice dear." They are indifferent and you are forever trying to get their approval.
> - We are kind to children. We wouldn't be harsh and stern to them. So we have to re-parent ourselves, treat ourselves as we would a child.
> - Perfectionists tend to feel shame.
>
> I hope this is helpful.Jenny, your post about perfectionism fit me to a T...well, I ALMOST fit; not perfectly, darn it ;). Anyway, it sounds just like me. Wish I could free myself of that.--Cindy W
Posted by Renee N on June 10, 2000, at 1:35:37
In reply to Perfectionism (SLS/CarolAnn), posted by JennyR on June 9, 2000, at 21:46:46
Thank you. Renee N
Posted by Maniz on November 3, 2000, at 13:52:09
In reply to Re: Procrastination as Disease, posted by JohnL on May 26, 2000, at 3:51:03
John, which medication do you think helps with procrastination?
I have the same idea that procrastination can be related to depression or social phobia.
Thanks
> so, I'm no expert on procrastination, but certainly a veteran of experiencing it for a long time. When I finally found the medication that treated my anhedonia, I became interested in everyday normal activities--including work. So, when I cured the anhedonia, it also cured the procrastination.
Posted by Dasypodidae on November 3, 2000, at 22:22:20
In reply to which medication? Re: Procrastination as Disease, posted by Maniz on November 3, 2000, at 13:52:09
I'm not John but Ritalin made it possible for me to start things. Before it seemed necessary to keep everything the same-a sort of irrational dread of upsetting the balance.
> John, which medication do you think helps with procrastination?
>
> I have the same idea that procrastination can be related to depression or social phobia.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> > so, I'm no expert on procrastination, but certainly a veteran of experiencing it for a long time. When I finally found the medication that treated my anhedonia, I became interested in everyday normal activities--including work. So, when I cured the anhedonia, it also cured the procrastination.
Posted by Maniz on November 4, 2000, at 9:34:21
In reply to Re: which medication? Re: Procrastination as Disease, posted by Dasypodidae on November 3, 2000, at 22:22:20
Thanks, yes it seems that a stimulant or antidepressive should work right?. I think I would try some other product before Ritalin...
> I'm not John but Ritalin made it possible for me to start things. Before it seemed necessary to keep everything the same-a sort of irrational dread of upsetting the balance.
>
>
>
>
> > John, which medication do you think helps with procrastination?
> >
> > I have the same idea that procrastination can be related to depression or social phobia.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > > so, I'm no expert on procrastination, but certainly a veteran of experiencing it for a long time. When I finally found the medication that treated my anhedonia, I became interested in everyday normal activities--including work. So, when I cured the anhedonia, it also cured the procrastination.
Posted by Christina on November 7, 2000, at 9:55:08
In reply to which medication? Re: Procrastination as Disease, posted by Maniz on November 3, 2000, at 13:52:09
Procrastination is ruining my life!
I am consumed by such a fear and anxiety when it comes to finishing certain projects... especiallay with my job.
Sometimes it gets so bad, I want to run away.
It's been a common theme in my life for as long as I can remember.
I'm currently on an AD, but it's not helping.
Even the great suggestions I've read on this thread don't really help me, because I am literally paralyzed with fear and unable to put them into practice.
One project in particular (for which I have already received three extensions)is no where near finished and I'm supposed to have it ready today.
I could lose my job over it, and yet here I sit... I can't even answer my phone for fear of my boss asking me for the project.
I want to disappear.
Posted by Maniz on November 7, 2000, at 13:37:33
In reply to Procrastination Can Be Debilitating, posted by Christina on November 7, 2000, at 9:55:08
Hi Christina,
Very good description. Sounds familiar...
I have read pramiracetam is good for getting organized. Unfortunately it is expensive. it lacks side effects.
For some the stimulant amino acid DMAE (dimethylaminoethanol) is very good and have a calming effect. It is safe and cheap.
propranolol is a beta blocker that can help with fear.
Dilantin helps some people to focus, but is is a problematic drug.
Maybe 5HTP could help (but you are on AD). I am just thinking loudly, I could not try these meds except for propranolol, which helped sometimes.
Maybe the antidepressant you are taking needs time.
I think in these cases psychotherapy is needed.
> Procrastination is ruining my life!
> I am consumed by such a fear and anxiety when it comes to finishing certain projects... especiallay with my job.
> Sometimes it gets so bad, I want to run away.
> It's been a common theme in my life for as long as I can remember.
> I'm currently on an AD, but it's not helping.
> Even the great suggestions I've read on this thread don't really help me, because I am literally paralyzed with fear and unable to put them into practice.
> One project in particular (for which I have already received three extensions)is no where near finished and I'm supposed to have it ready today.
> I could lose my job over it, and yet here I sit... I can't even answer my phone for fear of my boss asking me for the project.
> I want to disappear.
Posted by Christina on November 8, 2000, at 15:20:36
In reply to Re: Procrastination Can Be Debilitating » Christina, posted by Maniz on November 7, 2000, at 13:37:33
Thanks for the info on meds. I will discuss with pdoc.
I was on effexor and lithium but they made my problems worse (helped with the depression, but I was so tired and confused I could not function).
I'm back on Celexa (no mood stabilizer right now), and I'm feeling a little more energetic.
But i do need something to help with the paralyzing fear.
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