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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by LD on May 8, 2000, at 15:11:19
I recently started going to a new therapist and he wants to start using hypnotherapy to help me get over some major traumas from my childhood and learn to see things in a different light. Has anyone else tried this? What has been your experiences? Has it helped? I am also using medication jointly with therapy (Effexor XR 300 mg right now).
Thanks.
Posted by DC on May 8, 2000, at 21:28:44
In reply to Hypnotherapy, posted by LD on May 8, 2000, at 15:11:19
> I recently started going to a new therapist and he wants to start using hypnotherapy to help me get over some major traumas from my childhood and learn to see things in a different light. Has anyone else tried this? What has been your experiences? Has it helped? I am also using medication jointly with therapy (Effexor XR 300 mg right now).
>
> Thanks.
LD, I think there is some pretty good evidence for the efficacy of hypnotherapy. Dr. Herbert Benson at Harvard wrote an influential book called The Relaxation Response. In his second book he talks about using affirmations along with deep relaxation. It seems to help for all kinds of things. Hypnosis as I see it is basically meditation with suggestion. Cognitive therapy and meditation are the only therapies that show much evidence of really helping people. Most psychologists still cling to the psychoanalytic framework--with all the emphasis on repression and early childhood. But studies indicate that psychoanalytic therapy is no more effective than placebo.
Posted by Fred Potter on May 8, 2000, at 22:39:40
In reply to Re: Hypnotherapy--better than psychoanalysis, posted by DC on May 8, 2000, at 21:28:44
I suppose it's better than Gestalt therapy too.
Is that correct?
Posted by Mark H. on May 8, 2000, at 23:29:27
In reply to Re: Hypnotherapy--better than than Gestalt, posted by Fred Potter on May 8, 2000, at 22:39:40
I've had excellent short and intermediate-term results with self-hypnosis, especially when I've made my own tapes to address specific issues. The basic fractionalization and relaxation techniques are the same, then guided imagery seems useful beyond that. I don't know how, but INTENTION is somehow encoded in the sound of the voice, so be sure to mean what you say if you develop your own. I've used the same script, once clearly intending healing hypnosis, the second time trying for a more professional vocal style. The healing-intent side was great; the FM-voice side didn't work at all. Go figure.
Posted by bob on May 8, 2000, at 23:32:27
In reply to Re: Hypnotherapy--better than than Gestalt, posted by Fred Potter on May 8, 2000, at 22:39:40
I've done some -- for concentration issues, tho right now I think I'm at a point where it would be helpful for what I'm dealing with in therapy. Several times here I've described my hypnotherapist as a miracle worker. She even uses hypnotherapy to help folks who cannot use anesthesia get through surgery pain-free.
Anyway, as I've said elsewhere recently, I've been getting very acquainted with just how much the mind can hide from itself until its ready to cope. The more I think about the state hypnosis puts me in, the more I think about going back to my hypnotherapist for some more work.
cheers,
bob
Posted by FP on May 9, 2000, at 0:08:54
In reply to Hypnotherapy, posted by LD on May 8, 2000, at 15:11:19
Looks like I'm the one dissenter tonight....
My experience: hypnotherapy is very dangerous. (Put me in the psych ward after the 3rd session, and you know how I HATE it when that happens) The whole experience was like being raped all over again.
Some pDocs who treat trauma patients believe that bad stuff will "pop up" when you're strong enough to deal with it. I believe them - forcing memories has - for me - been bad business. If you push too hard, you unconscious just throws out "distractors" (I call it "chaff) to throw you off track; things like UFO Abduction, Satanic Ritual Abuse, etc. (No, none of those things have ever happened to me, that I know of - but under hypnosis they all appeared, to keep me from experiencing what I really wanted to experience.)
On the other hand, hypnosis was used to treat "battle fatigue" during WWII - what we would now call Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome - with evident success.
All I can say is, make sure you trust the guy. But personally, I'd bide my time. You'll deal with what you need to deal with when you're ready. But again, that's just one guy's opinion.
Whatever you decide, I hope it works out well - keep us posted.
FP
Posted by Cindy W on May 9, 2000, at 9:49:29
In reply to Re: Hypnotherapy--better than chocolate, posted by bob on May 8, 2000, at 23:32:27
> I've done some -- for concentration issues, tho right now I think I'm at a point where it would be helpful for what I'm dealing with in therapy. Several times here I've described my hypnotherapist as a miracle worker. She even uses hypnotherapy to help folks who cannot use anesthesia get through surgery pain-free.
>
> Anyway, as I've said elsewhere recently, I've been getting very acquainted with just how much the mind can hide from itself until its ready to cope. The more I think about the state hypnosis puts me in, the more I think about going back to my hypnotherapist for some more work.
>
> cheers,
> bob
Bob, I'm sorry, but as a dedicated chocolate lover, it's hard for me to believe that there's ANYTHING better than chocolate!--Best wishes!
Posted by harry b. on May 9, 2000, at 10:26:44
In reply to Hypnotherapy, posted by LD on May 8, 2000, at 15:11:19
I've never tried it, but I'd like to. What's
preventing me? Maybe some old cliche type misconceptions
and, I admit, some fear that the hypnotherapist
will elicit from me a few really dark and shameful
secrets that I don't want revealed.If entering into this type of therapy, can the patient
set parameters or agree on areas/subjects that are
to be off-limits?Is it SOP to record the sessions so the patient
can listen? Or is the patient aware and capable
of remembering the session?
Posted by tina on May 9, 2000, at 10:27:49
In reply to Re: Hypnotherapy--better than chocolate, posted by Cindy W on May 9, 2000, at 9:49:29
> > I've done some -- for concentration issues, tho right now I think I'm at a point where it would be helpful for what I'm dealing with in therapy. Several times here I've described my hypnotherapist as a miracle worker. She even uses hypnotherapy to help folks who cannot use anesthesia get through surgery pain-free.
> >
> > Anyway, as I've said elsewhere recently, I've been getting very acquainted with just how much the mind can hide from itself until its ready to cope. The more I think about the state hypnosis puts me in, the more I think about going back to my hypnotherapist for some more work.
> >
> > cheers,
> > bob
> Bob, I'm sorry, but as a dedicated chocolate lover, it's hard for me to believe that there's ANYTHING better than chocolate!--Best wishes!
Posted by Mark H. on May 9, 2000, at 12:26:40
In reply to Re: Hypnotherapy, posted by harry b. on May 9, 2000, at 10:26:44
> If entering into this type of therapy, can the patient
> set parameters or agree on areas/subjects that are
> to be off-limits?
>
> Is it SOP to record the sessions so the patient
> can listen? Or is the patient aware and capable
> of remembering the session?Great questions, Harry, and unfortunately the answer is frequently "no." Certification in hypno-therapy is relatively easy to obtain (even in California, which over-licenses everything in my opinion), involving for some as little as two intensive weekends in Las Vegas with more participants than the promoters can responsibly screen. You "can" wind up with a Ted Bundy as a certified hypnotherapist.
That said, most have great intentions and a wide range of skills and capabilities, from minimal to miraculous. Even those with minimal skills achieve endorsement-worthy results at times from those who are sufficiently suggestible and whose conditions are vague enough not to be audited for meaningful change.
I'm not trying to put you off of trying it, Harry, but I am saying that you should put more consideration, background checks and personal interviews with other clients before selecting a hypnotherapist than for perhaps any other type of person in whose hands you'd place your psyche.
The best will, of course, let you limit topics and will tape the session at your request. In my experience, in interactive hypnotherapy I ALWAYS am aware of what I'm saying and, if anything, I'm censoring too much. I also notice the tendency to confabulate and to meet the unspoken and subtle psychological needs of the therapist, which is one of the great risks in this type of hypnosis.
Therefore, I much prefer SELF-HYPNOSIS, making my own tapes, which are then used passively. Frequently, with self hypnosis, a 45 minute tape seems to go by in about 10 minutes, even though I "think" I've heard the whole thing (I haven't). You want to leave that "lost time" up to someone else? You better trust him/her with your life, because confabulations become "real" in your subconscious once they are established.
Note the "sexual abuse treatment industry" that arose around the "discovery" that everyone but you and me were sexually mistreated as children and, for that matter, we're just in denial and haven't yet "recovered" our suppressed memories of abuse. If even half of the claims of the most ardent benefactors of this hysteria that swept through the population 10 or 15 years ago were true, we would have to stop classing child sexual abuse as aberrant behavior and accept it as normal.
Before I'm flamed off the board for criticizing the "sex abuse treatment industry," let me quickly add that this same hysterical phenomenon succeeded in trivializing the completely legitimate and substantiated experiences of thousands of women and men who were in fact abused and deeply scarred by their abusive childhood experiences. However, these sufferers do not constitute a majority of the general public.
There is more to hypnosis than we understand, in my opinion. After years of making my own tapes (before and after commerically available tapes came and went out of fashion), I've noticed that what is said has equal or less impact to how it is said. I almost suspect that an experienced hypnotist could put a person under reading a script composed entirely of gibberish, provided that she or he thought about and intended the person to experience a hypnotic state of deep relaxation. I may experiment with this on myself some day. But I digress.
I hope I haven't put you off with these rambling thoughts. If you get a good recommendation and the person checks out, by all means give it a try. But I think you'll find -- as most people do -- that hypnosis is actually much LESS powerful than you may hope it is, while still offering some positive benefits.
Hoo-boy! Tell you what, readers -- I'll go whip myself now, so you don't have to. OK?
Much love,
Mark
Posted by Kim on May 9, 2000, at 14:37:06
In reply to Re: Hypnotherapy, posted by Mark H. on May 9, 2000, at 12:26:40
> Therefore, I much prefer SELF-HYPNOSIS, making my own tapes, which are then used passively. Frequently, with self hypnosis, a 45 minute tape seems to go by in about 10 minutes, even though I "think" I've heard the whole thing (I haven't).Mark,
How did you learn to make your own self-hypnosis tapes? I have no background in hynosis (self- or otherwise) and would have no idea where to begin.Several years ago my daughter was preparing for an important college exam (history) and having trouble remembering all those dates. I made her a tape where I just read a chronology and she played it over and over all night every night while she slept for a couple of weeks before the test. When she took the test, she was amazed at how much the tape had helped.
So I believe tapes could help, but I don't know what to say to myself.
Thanks,
Kim
Posted by Cass on May 9, 2000, at 15:09:34
In reply to Self-Hypnosis -- How?, posted by Kim on May 9, 2000, at 14:37:06
Is there such a thing as the kind of hypnosis you see in movies, in which a patient is fully unconscious of their surroundings except for the doctor's voice? And the patient truly has access to memories that are normally unavailable to them? And afterwards, the patient doesn't remember what they said? It seems that most people's accounts of hypnosis (mine too) is just guided imagery, deep relaxation or affirmations. What's the difference between hypnosis and meditation then? I've never known anyone who's had that sterotypical experience of hypnosis. I've also never been able to understand how a doctor could genuinely make someone unaware of the enviroment around them (short of hitting them over the head or drugging them). Anyone know?
Posted by FP on May 9, 2000, at 17:19:47
In reply to Hypnosis or meditation?, posted by Cass on May 9, 2000, at 15:09:34
> Is there such a thing as the kind of hypnosis you see in movies, in which a patient is fully unconscious of their surroundings except for the doctor's voice?
Depending on the suggestability and co-operatation of the subject, yes.
>And the patient truly has access to memories that are normally unavailable to them?
Sometimes. See my previous post>And afterwards, the patient doesn't remember what they said?
If the hypnotic state is deep enough, or the patient is asked whether they wish not to remember upon awakening, the answer to this question can "yes", also.>It seems that most people's accounts of hypnosis (mine too) is just guided imagery, deep relaxation or affirmations. What's the difference between hypnosis and meditation then?
The difference is one of degree and intent. Most people have trouble hypnotizing themselves deeply enough to achieve the profound states described in Budhism - or their unconscious won't accept such a suggestion.
(Personally, I think ALL forms of mystical and psychedlic experience are forms of hypnosis, FWIW)
>I've never known anyone who's had that sterotypical experience of hypnosis.
I'll ask my wife, whom I used as the subject for many interesting hypnotic experiments to post her own responses to your question.>I've also never been able to understand how a doctor could genuinely make someone unaware of the enviroment around them (short of hitting them over the head or drugging them). Anyone know?
You slip in and out of mild hypnotic states all the time - ever been so engrossed in a task that you became oblivious to the worlde around you?
Enough ranting. I'll ask Mrs FP to post to this topic as well
Posted by Cass on May 9, 2000, at 19:49:30
In reply to Re: Hypnosis or meditation?, posted by FP on May 9, 2000, at 17:19:47
> I'll ask my wife, whom I used as the subject for many interesting hypnotic experiments to post her own responses to your question.
>Hmmm,uh...well...okay, but don't feel you need to give too many details of those "interesting hypnotic experiments." Lol. But seriously, I appreciate your response and willingness to get me more information. Thanks.
Posted by bob on May 9, 2000, at 23:08:49
In reply to Hypnosis or meditation?, posted by Cass on May 9, 2000, at 15:09:34
harryb,
I think your questions are great ones to take along with you in checking out a hypnotherapist. I'd have to agree with FP on the possiblity of "unwanted" stuff getting dredged up, tho that wasn't anywhere near the focus of what I did HT for. I know my hypnotherapist' answers for your questions because she mentioned most of those concerns or issues up front, explaining what HT can and cannot do before we began anything. I think the trust that positive responses to your concerns can build as well as the knowledge you'd gain over the process would make the therapy all that more effective.Cass,
Soon after I finished the HT I took a medication course from a student of Sri Chinmoy's. Besides the therapy, my hypnotherapist also taught me some self-hypnosis techniques and made me a tape with my particular concerns in mind ... all of that made me much more receptive to and capable of meditation. I dunno -- they could be two means to the same end, but for me they compliment one another far more than they overlap.I've really fallen out of practice -- and both (self-hypnosis and meditation) do take a lot of practice. I was much better at the self-hypnosis than the meditation. I did the HT about three months prior to leaving my academic position several years ago, and I was quite prone to panic attacks at the time (before I discovered klonopin). Putting myself into a deep, restful trance was a far, far better manner of dealing with the rising tide of panic I'd feel in my office as opposed to my other strategy of playing Klondike incessantly. Perhaps the coolest thing about it was I'd set my watch timer for 5 minutes and 20 seconds (figuring on 5 minutes of trance and a few seconds to get there), and I would invariably come out of trance (suddenly, but gently) 5-10 seconds before the timer would go off. At first, I did it because I was afraid I'd just "fall asleep" and miss the beginning of a class, but later I kept doing it because it was just too amusing.
I guess that's what I valued most from the self-hypnosis I'd practice -- not anything from any guided imagery or whatever, but just the simple joy of coming out of trance feeling peaceful, wide awake, and in control.
cheers,
bob
Posted by harry b. on May 10, 2000, at 9:34:51
In reply to Re: Hypnosis or meditation?, posted by bob on May 9, 2000, at 23:08:49
.
Posted by FP on May 10, 2000, at 12:14:46
In reply to Re: Hypnosis or meditation--FP, posted by Cass on May 9, 2000, at 19:49:30
> Hmmm,uh...well...okay, but don't feel you need to give too many details of those "interesting hypnotic experiments." Lol. But seriously, I appreciate your response and willingness to get me more information. Thanks.
I wasn't suggesting anything X-rated (Although now you've given me an idea, LOL). Just that it would be interesting to hear about the "Movie Style" hypnosis you asked about from someone who has been under it, multiple times. Mrs. FP got home late last night, but one of these days - this thread is too interesting to let it die.
FP
PS: Our next "project" will be an attempt to see if the experience of "Satori" can be induced hypnotically. If it can, I will post complete directions on this board. I seem to have emphasized the "dark side" of hypnosis - but I agree that for things like relaxation, getting rid of migraines or other stress related pain, it can be effective.
PPS: One final question: how many people on the board have done self hypnosis/hypnothereapy for a period of years? It seems like everyone starts out real enthused and then gradually looses interest. Maybe.
Posted by FP on May 10, 2000, at 17:06:56
In reply to Re: Hypnosis or meditation?, posted by FP on May 9, 2000, at 17:19:47
Hi!
I must be the worlds most hypnotisable/ suggestable person. It is very easy for me to go into a hypnotic state. It's a profound state of distance from the world. I'm extremely disassociative. Whenever something unpleasent or uncomfortable happens, I'm pretty much gone... it's spontainous. Last year I had to have an amnio and there were some complications so it was more painful that it should have been and the whole experince is kinda cloudy and fuzzy in my mind. I remember stareing at a dot on the wall and the next thing I remember the docs are telling me I can leave. I was really light-headed and had trouble walking because I was so "out of it"
More controled hypnotsism works well on me, too. I can go so deeply under that you can stick pins in my arm and I won't even know it. FP likes to do this at parties to get a laugh.
When I was getting ready to write this post, we were talking about things that happened to me under hypnosis and I realized there are a lot of things I don't remember. I don't even remember being asked if I wanted to remember some stuff.
I think that hypnotism is really a product of you working on your own mind. If you allow someone to hypnotis you, and you want it to work, then it will. It's all in your head!
Mrs. FP
Posted by Mark H. on May 12, 2000, at 11:38:23
In reply to Re: Kim/Self-Hypnosis -- How?, posted by Mark H. on May 10, 2000, at 16:24:44
Kim,
I have ONE self-hypnosis tape left, a good commercial one, probably from the early to mid eighties. Production quality isn't great, but it had the best effect.
Would you like me to ask a friend to duplicate it for you? If it were still avail commerically, I wouldn't violate the author's copyright, but I'm 99% sure the company is long gone.
Mark H.
Posted by Mark H. on May 12, 2000, at 11:41:58
In reply to Re: Mrs. FP speaks as a Hypnotic subject, posted by FP on May 10, 2000, at 17:06:56
Dear Mrs. FP,
Thank you for sharing your story. I would sure love to work with someone like you sometime to see what's possible with the right subject. I have heard there are a couple of people locally whose ability enables them to turn down anaesthesia for dental procedures and even operations. That's an astounding capability! Would that we could consistently help chronic pain sufferers with such ability.
Mark H.
This is the end of the thread.
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