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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Greg on April 2, 2000, at 13:54:49
Its been suggested that Zyprexa might be helpful for my "Brain Fog" and disconnection with familiar surroundings. This has been happening over the last 6 weeks. Can you tell me about Zyprexa and its possible side effects? Thanks in advance for your expertise.
Greg
Posted by Cam W. on April 3, 2000, at 0:18:13
In reply to To Cam W: Zyprexa for Derealization?, posted by Greg on April 2, 2000, at 13:54:49
Greg - I really know nothing about "brain fog", but I can tell you about Zyprexa. In short, Zyprexa probably works by decreasing the amount of dopamine neurotransmission in the brain.
I will first use an analogy from Aldous Huxley in his 1954 book "The Doors of Perception) (which incidentally is where Jim Morrison got the name for his band). Huxley believed that mescaline opened the brain's reducing valve (thalamus?) allowing the brain to perceive stimuli not ordinarily noticed when one's brain is focused or attending to something (eg background noise, the feel of your clothing, etc.).
*Caveat* - The following is only my brain working overtime, I do not believe everything I am about to say has been proven.
I believe that a person with schizophrenia has a "stuck open reducing valve". They get too much external information to be adequately processed by the brain. This could be due to the lack of synaptic pruning that may occur in people who are predisposed to schizophrenia. Ordinarily, as our brain develops the neurons branch out making connections (synapses) with surrounding neurons. As we lay down neural maps in our brain (eg learn to walk, talk, speak, think abstractly, etc.) many of these connections are broken or disconnected. The brunt of this pruning occurs into ours 20s, but may, to a lesser extent, happen throughout our lives. A person predisposed to schizophrenia (either genetically or virally) may lack the enzyme that does the pruning and hence receives too much information at one time, overloading his senses. The overabundance of dopamine connections acts like adding too much dopamine to the system. Or, put another way, the reducing valve is stuck open. By blocking dopamine receptors, we are able to partially shut the reducing valve by decreasing the amount of dopamine transmission.
I am not saying that you have schizophrenia, but probably another one of several disorders in which excess dopamine is a problem. Zyprexa is worth a try.
Many scientists say that the atypical antipsychotics, like Zyprexa, improve cognition. I am not convinced. The older, traditional neuroleptics dulled cognition and when switched to an atypical the dulling is just removed. "Ah", say other scientists, "but when we give Zyprexa (or other atypical) their cognition improves". Sure, when you give a drug that stops voices from telling a person what to do, naturally it will be easier for them to concentrate.
Now, for side effects. The big side effect in the news is weight gain. Most of the older, traditional neuroleptics caused weight gain, too. It was just that the older drugs also caused profound movement disorders, making weight gain a non-issue. The more underweight you are, the more you can expect to gain. Also methods to keep weight off (eg a strict, nutritious diet and regimented exercise program) are far more successful than trying to take the weight off once it has been gained. The weight gain does seem to plateau in about 8 months, for most people. Carbohydrate cravings seem to be at least a partial culpert for the weight gain.
Other side effects include headache, nausea, dizziness, drowsiness or insomnia, and agitation. These side effects usually dissipate after taking the drug for a couple weeks, as your body adjusts to the drug.
Hpoe this helps - Cam W.
Posted by Colleen on April 3, 2000, at 14:58:44
In reply to Re: To Cam W: Zyprexa for Derealization?, posted by Cam W. on April 3, 2000, at 0:18:13
Greg --
I have the same problem as you. I tried Zyprexa and gained lots of weight. It didn't do as much for me as I had hoped. My pdoc had me try Risperdol and it really works. I take 2mg at bedtime, which helps me sleep which is a major problem for me even on AD's. When things get worse I just adjust the dose as needed. I do let my doctor know when I adjust it so he is aware that I'm having problems.Having problems with "out of touch with reality", hearing voices and hallucenating really freaked me out. But once I got once meds and it was under control I am able to lead a very productive life, having a good job and taking care of my family.
Good luck.
Colleen
Posted by DC on April 3, 2000, at 17:19:05
In reply to Re: To Cam W: Zyprexa for Derealization?, posted by Colleen on April 3, 2000, at 14:58:44
While the zyprexa might work, I think you should first makes sure the derealization is not being caused by some med you are taking, or depression.
Posted by Greg on April 3, 2000, at 17:38:28
In reply to Re: But Greg, posted by DC on April 3, 2000, at 17:19:05
DC,
I currently take Wellbutrin and Xanex. I take Ambien and Remeron for sleep. The ADs are relatively new to me, I've been having the symptoms I decribed since before starting them. Only the Ambien and Remeron have been consistent throughout. Any thoughts or ideas?Thanks,
Greg
> While the zyprexa might work, I think you should first makes sure the derealization is not being caused by some med you are taking, or depression.
Posted by saint james on April 3, 2000, at 19:38:01
In reply to Re: To Cam W: Zyprexa for Derealization?, posted by Cam W. on April 3, 2000, at 0:18:13
> I will first use an analogy from Aldous Huxley in his 1954 book "The Doors of Perception) (which incidentally is where Jim Morrison got the name for his band). Huxley believed that mescaline opened the brain's reducing valve (thalamus?) allowing the brain to perceive stimuli not ordinarily noticed when one's brain is focused or attending to something (eg background noise, the feel of your clothing, etc.).
>
> *Caveat* - The following is only my brain working overtime, I do not believe everything I am about to say has been proven.
>
> IJames here....
Make sence to me. AS I have ADD I see it as a less active filter; too much input. Stims and AD make the filter work better in me. I can see how
a more impaired filter could be part of the cause many thought disorders. Not to mention finding DMT in these persons urine.j
Posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 6, 2000, at 10:09:20
In reply to Re: To Cam W: Zyprexa for Derealization?, posted by Cam W. on April 3, 2000, at 0:18:13
> Many scientists say that the atypical antipsychotics, like Zyprexa, improve cognition. I am not convinced.
I was on Zyprexa briefly. For the short time that it helped with my bipolar depression, I experienced a dramatic improvement in cognition and a lifting of the “fog” that continually plagues me. I was taking 10 mg/day at the time. A girl that I spoke to in my doctor’s waiting room described the same thing.
- Scott
Posted by Sherry on April 6, 2000, at 14:54:28
In reply to Re: To Cam W: Zyprexa for Derealization?, posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 6, 2000, at 10:09:20
I am thinking about trying zyprexa, and one of the main symptoms of my depression is mental slowness and a decrease in mental alertness. It is very hard for me to read the posts here sometimes, for example. The "fog" you speak of, is that just a decrease in alertness or is it derealization? I have not been helped by any of the AD's I have taken except Parnate for a brief four months that left me with a much worse depression when I discontinued it. I desperately want to get rid of the "fog", so if you could give me some input, I would really appreciate it.
> > Many scientists say that the atypical antipsychotics, like Zyprexa, improve cognition. I am not convinced.
>
> I was on Zyprexa briefly. For the short time that it helped with my bipolar depression, I experienced a dramatic improvement in cognition and a lifting of the “fog” that continually plagues me. I was taking 10 mg/day at the time. A girl that I spoke to in my doctor’s waiting room described the same thing.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Cam W. on April 6, 2000, at 18:27:39
In reply to Re: To Cam W: Zyprexa for Derealization?, posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 6, 2000, at 10:09:20
> > Many scientists say that the atypical antipsychotics, like Zyprexa, improve cognition. I am not convinced.
>
> I was on Zyprexa briefly. For the short time that it helped with my bipolar depression, I experienced a dramatic improvement in cognition and a lifting of the “fog” that continually plagues me. I was taking 10 mg/day at the time. A girl that I spoke to in my doctor’s waiting room described the same thing.
>
>
> - ScottThen again, I could be wrong and the scientists could be right. :^)
- Cam W.
Posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 7, 2000, at 10:54:45
In reply to Re: To Cam W: Zyprexa for Derealization?, posted by Cam W. on April 6, 2000, at 18:27:39
> > > Many scientists say that the atypical antipsychotics, like Zyprexa, improve cognition. I am not convinced.
> > I was on Zyprexa briefly. For the short time that it helped with my bipolar depression, I experienced a dramatic improvement in cognition and a lifting of the “fog” that continually plagues me. I was taking 10 mg/day at the time. A girl that I spoke to in my doctor’s waiting room described the same thing.> Then again, I could be wrong and the scientists could be right. :^)
If Copernicus had not questioned Ptolemy, the sun would still be revolving around us.
- Scott
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