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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tom Forman, CBS News on March 17, 2000, at 4:27:15
First off, I truly hope I'm not intruding by posting this here. I don't mean to cause trouble. But this seemed like an unsually articulate and open forum. So I thought I'd take a chance.
My name is Tom Forman. I'm a producer at CBS News, on a show called 48 Hours. It's hosted by Dan Rather, and airs Thursdays nights across the USA.
I'm currently working on an hour about, well, sex. Now THAT got your attention! The concept: as we enter the new millennium, we're also entering a Second Sexual Revolution. For the first time in generations, we're comfortable talking about sexuality... sharing our desires... and trying to deal with our problems. It's going to be a great show, I think. Very positive, and very important.
I've been talking to a couple of sleep experts about including a story on "sleep sex" in the hour. It's a problem most people don't even know EXISTS... But as we grow more comfortable with our own sexuality, we've begun to talk about it... and try to understand it.
All of this is a long way of saying, I was fascinated to read a number of posts on this board. People seem to be discussing this "silent" problem with care and understanding. I wonder if anyone who finds themselves in this situation would ever consider sharing their story with CBS News? Our goal, of course, is to spread the word on this very real, very common problem.
If you're interested, please contact me. The sooner the better! My e-mail address: tfo@cbsnews.com
I hope you'll feel comfortable at least talking to me. After that, we can do whatever you decide. Maybe we can reach some people. And we'd probably even have an okay time doing it. Promise.
And again, I'm sorry for barging in this way. I won't do it again. I hope this post doesn't make you the least bit uncomfortable... It shouldn't.
All my best,
Tom Forman
Producer
CBS NEWS/48 Hours
Posted by Mark H. on March 17, 2000, at 4:44:00
In reply to Sleep Sex Inquiry from Another Forum, posted by Tom Forman, CBS News on March 17, 2000, at 4:27:15
The Sleep Forum is, well, kind of sleepy at times. The "Rest of the Disorders" section in particular is incredibly neglected, and I'm dismayed that many desperate inquiries go completely unacknowledged and unanswered every week, through no one's fault. Recently, I had corresponded with two or three people on the issue of sex during sleep (on that forum), and then this inquiry from Tom Forman showed up there, receiving almost no response.
Psycho-Babble is everything I've ever wanted for the "Rest" forum, so I've taken a chance by cross-posting his query here in hopes that some of us might have useful information or experiences to share with him on the topic of having sex while asleep -- it's an interesting form of sleepwalking that raises issues of consent and consciousness (or lack thereof), among other things.
I apologize if I have overstepped the bounds of list propriety by cross-posting. You may, of course, simply ignore the whole thing!
Posted by Cam W. on March 17, 2000, at 7:37:38
In reply to Sleep Sex Inquiry from Another Forum, posted by Tom Forman, CBS News on March 17, 2000, at 4:27:15
Tom - It's not often that we can get a major player in the media industry within our grasp. May I make a suggestion for a segment. How about a piece showing the media's sensationalization towards the stigma of psychiatric illness. For too many years people with mental afflictions have been ridiculed, taunted, and blamed for the most violent acts that occur in our society. For instance, "Ted Kazynski (sp?) did the things he did because he is paranoid schizophrenic." No, Ted did those things because he was a man who had a disorder and he was not being treated for it. People with mental disorders are portrayed in the media (even your network) as being extremely violent. Research has shown that these people are more of a danger to themselves, than they are to other people (especially strangers). Please show that media is usually wrong in the portrayal of the mentally ill in our society (especially before Fox does a special like "When Mental Patients Attack!"). One in four to one in five people will, at some point in their lives, have a mental disorder that will require professional treatment. (1 in 3 if you include substance abuse). Please read at least the opening chapters of the Surgeon General's Report on Mental Health. Thank you for your time. - Cam W.
Posted by Morc on March 17, 2000, at 12:12:37
In reply to Re: Inquiry to Tom from a Babbler, posted by Cam W. on March 17, 2000, at 7:37:38
>
> Tom - It's not often that we can get a major player in the media industry within our grasp. May I make a suggestion for a segment. How about a piece showing the media's sensationalization towards the stigma of psychiatric illness. For too many years people with mental afflictions have been ridiculed, taunted, and blamed for the most violent acts that occur in our society.Rite on! What a Great idea!
Posted by Kim on March 17, 2000, at 14:38:31
In reply to Here, here!, posted by Morc on March 17, 2000, at 12:12:37
> >
> > Tom - It's not often that we can get a major player in the media industry within our grasp. May I make a suggestion for a segment. How about a piece showing the media's sensationalization towards the stigma of psychiatric illness. For too many years people with mental afflictions have been ridiculed, taunted, and blamed for the most violent acts that occur in our society.
>
> Rite on! What a Great idea!AMEN!
Posted by Alan on March 17, 2000, at 16:59:31
In reply to Re: Inquiry to Tom from a Babbler, posted by Cam W. on March 17, 2000, at 7:37:38
>
> Tom - It's not often that we can get a major player in the media industry within our grasp. May I make a suggestion for a segment. How about a piece showing the media's sensationalization towards the stigma of psychiatric illness. For too many years people with mental afflictions have been ridiculed, taunted, and blamed for the most violent acts that occur in our society. For instance, "Ted Kazynski (sp?) did the things he did because he is paranoid schizophrenic." No, Ted did those things because he was a man who had a disorder and he was not being treated for it. People with mental disorders are portrayed in the media (even your network) as being extremely violent. Research has shown that these people are more of a danger to themselves, than they are to other people (especially strangers). Please show that media is usually wrong in the portrayal of the mentally ill in our society (especially before Fox does a special like "When Mental Patients Attack!"). One in four to one in five people will, at some point in their lives, have a mental disorder that will require professional treatment. (1 in 3 if you include substance abuse). Please read at least the opening chapters of the Surgeon General's Report on Mental Health. Thank you for your time. - Cam W.***********************************************
Tom, about what CAM has to say: If CBS can actually take risks ever again in their hard news about mental health - what better place than a fabulous show like 48 Hrs. with Rather!Sure the sleep sex story is "sexy" for the ratings
and you are certainly welcome here any time to propose these kinds of things. My concern though is for the substantive stories about things like those that CAM mentions. Or is this an area that should be handled by PBS Frontline or similar?Interested in your thoughts Tom...
Best,
Alan
*****************************************
**********************************************
Posted by Cass on March 17, 2000, at 18:03:31
In reply to Re: Inquiry to Tom from a Babbler - to Tom, posted by Alan on March 17, 2000, at 16:59:31
Gee, I feel clueless. Can a person actually have sexual intercourse while sleeping? I assume they would have to have a willing partner, or is the partner sleeping too? Or is it masturbation that's being discussed? Someone fill me in. The topic does not embarrass me.
Posted by Carolyn on March 17, 2000, at 18:41:41
In reply to Re: Inquiry to Tom from a Babbler, posted by Cam W. on March 17, 2000, at 7:37:38
>
> Tom - It's not often that we can get a major player in the media industry within our grasp. May I make a suggestion for a segment. How about a piece showing the media's sensationalization towards the stigma of psychiatric illness. For too many years people with mental afflictions have been ridiculed, taunted, and blamed for the most violent acts that occur in our society. For instance, "Ted Kazynski (sp?) did the things he did because he is paranoid schizophrenic." No, Ted did those things because he was a man who had a disorder and he was not being treated for it. People with mental disorders are portrayed in the media (even your network) as being extremely violent. Research has shown that these people are more of a danger to themselves, than they are to other people (especially strangers). Please show that media is usually wrong in the portrayal of the mentally ill in our society (especially before Fox does a special like "When Mental Patients Attack!"). One in four to one in five people will, at some point in their lives, have a mental disorder that will require professional treatment. (1 in 3 if you include substance abuse). Please read at least the opening chapters of the Surgeon General's Report on Mental Health. Thank you for your time. - Cam W.Great Idea...and here's another. How about a story on the discrepancies in health insurance coverage for so-called "physical illness" and "mental illness". Wouldn't it be great if the insurance companies would wake up and realize that the brain is included as part of the body!
Hope you'll consider this one, too!
Carolyn
Posted by Jade on March 17, 2000, at 18:47:40
In reply to Re: Inquiry to Tom from a Babbler - to Tom, posted by Alan on March 17, 2000, at 16:59:31
Dear Tom,
The suggestion of using your show to reduce the stigma that is so pervasive to severe mental illness is a very important one. People are more accepting to acknowledging and seeking help for problems of living but this is not the case for severe mental illness.
Psychotic disorders such as schizophrenia can incapacitate the person so much that they do not "see" that they have a problem. Because it strikes primarily in the late teens and early adulthood, it is this group who are most effected by the stigma. They have a great difficulty accepting that they have an illness; the knowledge that they have of the illness comes from the media and in most cases it is highly inaccurate and lastly, they are abandoned by their peers who are also stigmatized by the media.
An excellent book which covers this topic so well is titled: Media Madness: Public Images of Mental Illness. Written by, Otto F. Wahl, PH.D
Published by, Rutgers University PressIt can take a couple of years for a sufferer and family members to come to a full understanding of the illness. To quote from the book...
"In addition patients and their families who have achieved an accurate understanding of the disorder may be discouraged and hurt by the public's apparent lack of understanding. One comfort in struggling with a painful disorder is the knowledge that other's may appreciate what you are going through; but when you are reminded, by repeated misrepresentations of your disorder, how little other's understand, that comfort may be replaced by frustration, anger and discouragement."
Your medium can do such a wealth of good for those who suffer from a mental illness. Educating the public can lead to many, many benefits.
Sincerely
A mom of a 21 yr old who has a psychotic illness.
Posted by Mark H. on March 17, 2000, at 18:55:07
In reply to Clueless, posted by Cass on March 17, 2000, at 18:03:31
I don't know if I made it clear in my earlier post that I cross-posted Tom's message here. Do not assume that he has read your comments unless you have written to him at the email address given in his posting (tfo@cbsnews.com).
Cass -- I was corresponding with people on the sleep forum who were freaked out about having sex while they were asleep. One young man sounded like his partner didn't mind and even enjoyed it, but he would have no memory of it at all when she would tell him all the things he did during the night, including oral sex with her and intercourse. Another woman complained that her husband would fondle her while he was asleep and make rude comments (in keeping with the reptile brain at work when his consciousness was catching zzzzz's). A man wrote that his wife says he masturbates in his sleep, and she found it "offensive." Most of the people I corresponded with were in relatively benign situations. I had two concerns: that sleep sex, if untreated, could lead to non-consensual sex and be interpreted as rape; and that sex that involved REM-breakthrough violence (intended against an antagonist in a dream) could lead to injury or worse.
In most situations of sleep-acting of any kind, including masturbation, petting, intercourse, sleepwalking, talking, moaning, laughing, singing, crying, flailing about, etc., the sleep partner mainly needs to realize that his or her partner is NOT acting consciously and does NOT choose his behavior. Patience, humor and forgiveness are in order; separate beds may be necessary.
My first wife was a mousy, geniusy librarian -- tiny and shy, quiet and soft-spoken. In the middle of the night, while sound asleep, she would curse me out in a loud voice using language I had never heard from a highly educated woman. Why get mad? It wasn't really her. It was good for a laugh, and my job was to sooth her until she could regain some peace in her sleep.
Since this forum has infinitely more open, articulate and experienced people on it, I was hoping some of the regular readers might have had sleep sex experience and could help Tom with his research.
I emailed him privately this morning suggesting that a more relevant and wide-reaching theme would be the sexual dysfunction that literally millions of us who take psychiatric drugs experience. I have no idea whether he is interested or not, but it would certainly apply to a large section of his audience, and he probably wouldn't have to leave his own office to find someone to interview on camera.
I apologize if I've caused any confusion by cross-posting Tom's letter to the sleep forum -- I don't know if he is even aware of this forum. Whether you wish to contact him is entirely up to you; if you do, you need to take the initiative.
Posted by michael on March 17, 2000, at 19:27:19
In reply to Clarification to Cass and Everyone, Please!, posted by Mark H. on March 17, 2000, at 18:55:07
> I don't know if I made it clear in my earlier post that I cross-posted Tom's message here. Do not assume that he has read your comments unless you have written to him at the email address given in his posting (tfo@cbsnews.com).
>
> Cass -- I was corresponding with people on the sleep forum who were freaked out about having sex while they were asleep. One young man sounded like his partner didn't mind and even enjoyed it, but he would have no memory of it at all when she would tell him all the things he did during the night, including oral sex with her and intercourse. Another woman complained that her husband would fondle her while he was asleep and make rude comments (in keeping with the reptile brain at work when his consciousness was catching zzzzz's). A man wrote that his wife says he masturbates in his sleep, and she found it "offensive." Most of the people I corresponded with were in relatively benign situations. I had two concerns: that sleep sex, if untreated, could lead to non-consensual sex and be interpreted as rape; and that sex that involved REM-breakthrough violence (intended against an antagonist in a dream) could lead to injury or worse.
>
> In most situations of sleep-acting of any kind, including masturbation, petting, intercourse, sleepwalking, talking, moaning, laughing, singing, crying, flailing about, etc., the sleep partner mainly needs to realize that his or her partner is NOT acting consciously and does NOT choose his behavior. Patience, humor and forgiveness are in order; separate beds may be necessary.
>
> My first wife was a mousy, geniusy librarian -- tiny and shy, quiet and soft-spoken. In the middle of the night, while sound asleep, she would curse me out in a loud voice using language I had never heard from a highly educated woman. Why get mad? It wasn't really her. It was good for a laugh, and my job was to sooth her until she could regain some peace in her sleep.
>
> Since this forum has infinitely more open, articulate and experienced people on it, I was hoping some of the regular readers might have had sleep sex experience and could help Tom with his research.
>
> I emailed him privately this morning suggesting that a more relevant and wide-reaching theme would be the sexual dysfunction that literally millions of us who take psychiatric drugs experience. I have no idea whether he is interested or not, but it would certainly apply to a large section of his audience, and he probably wouldn't have to leave his own office to find someone to interview on camera.
>
> I apologize if I've caused any confusion by cross-posting Tom's letter to the sleep forum -- I don't know if he is even aware of this forum. Whether you wish to contact him is entirely up to you; if you do, you need to take the initiative.
Didn't Mike Wallace suffer from a rather debilitating depression for a while, and then do a piece on it on 60 minutes? I don't recall seeing it, myself. But I thought that I had heard that it was pretty thorough, and addressed some of the issues mentioned here (the stereotypes and stigma, etc)
I think it was quite a while ago...? Wouldn't mind taking a look at it... Or I could be mistaken.
Posted by kazoo (Peter Jennings Fan Club) on March 17, 2000, at 22:18:45
In reply to past media coverage, posted by michael on March 17, 2000, at 19:27:19
Sleep Sex?
This has *GOT* to be the stupidest thing I've every heard!
It sounds like just another pre-fab, pre-hysterical syndrome for the media to scare the living
crap out of people with. What a bore! Such trash! This is why I watch ABC News.
What will THEY think up next?
kazooBTW: nice rug on Rather.
Posted by Kim on March 19, 2000, at 23:01:41
In reply to Clueless, posted by Cass on March 17, 2000, at 18:03:31
About 15 years ago I had this happen to me. A man that had been trying to get me to go out with him (and I was rejecting) appeared at the foot of my bed. He made love to me and before he dissappeared out of the door, he said "Now you can think you drempt of this." He knew that I was asleep and took full advantage of the situation. When I woke up, before I was fully coherent, I did indeed think I drempt I was being made love to by this person that I was not attracted too. As the day went on, I couldn't get it out of my mind, and the more I thought about it the more I realized that it actually happened. Since we both belonged to the same circle of friends, the incident was confirmed by immature male ego's, and laughter at pulling one over on someone. I consider it rape. I never pressed charges because well, how do you go into a police station and say I was raped in my sleep? It does happen, it is very scary and very humiliating. When you are asleep you can't fight or even comprehend that an attack is happening.
Posted by KimK on March 20, 2000, at 0:36:09
In reply to Re: It does happen....., posted by Kim on March 19, 2000, at 23:01:41
The disadvantages of using only first names--the post to this thread on 3/17 was made by me, the post on 3/19 was not; I've posted to this board for awhile and realize that we get to know people's "histories" so I didn't want anyone to be confused. Guess I'll go by KimK from now on :)
Posted by KimT on March 21, 2000, at 0:29:23
In reply to Two Kims, posted by KimK on March 20, 2000, at 0:36:09
> Sorry about that I am new to this board and didn't realize there was another Kim here. Should have been looking where I was going. OOOPS!
Posted by KimK on March 22, 2000, at 19:26:48
In reply to Re: Two Kims, posted by KimT on March 21, 2000, at 0:29:23
> > Sorry about that I am new to this board and didn't realize there was another Kim here. Should have been looking where I was going. OOOPS!
No problem :-)
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 22, 2000, at 21:51:55
In reply to Clarification to Cass and Everyone, Please!, posted by Mark H. on March 17, 2000, at 18:55:07
> I don't know if I made it clear in my earlier post that I cross-posted Tom's message here.
People have cut-and-pasted material from elsewhere here, and I think that's fine.
But do *not* do that and then sign the other person's name to the post. That's like pretending to be the other person. The other person might not like it, and people who read the post might feel misled.
I know you meant well. It just wasn't the right way to go about spreading the word.
Bob
Posted by Mark H. on March 25, 2000, at 16:25:43
In reply to Re: *never* sign someone else's name to a post, posted by Dr. Bob on March 22, 2000, at 21:51:55
I can see how cross-posting in two posts (reposting Tom's entry from another forum, and then explaining what I had done as the first response to that post a minute later) was completely confusing to some people, and I apologize. I know better now and will not do it again. Learning as I go! Thanks for your note.
This is the end of the thread.
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