![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 17 to 41 of 43. Go back in thread:
Posted by Thanks for your comments some clarification on February 26, 2000, at 3:07:53
In reply to DJ, posted by Renee N on February 26, 2000, at 1:10:44
If you have chosen to take offense at my comments, I'm sorry to read that. Sure I have been pumping the Haven but there's nothing going on that's cultish there (far from it), just sheer gratitude on my behalf. However clumsily, in my own way, I am expessing my appreciation publically here for all that I've learned in the workshops there, which I know to have been key to much of my healing. That and all the other factors I have mentioned in a number of posts.
If you want to suggest that, that's the gospel according to DJ, that's fine, but far from the truth. I may come across as dogmatic in expressing my points but that's because I truly believe that ADs are a crutch and that goes against the grain here, obviously. And I believe many folks here and elsewhere do cling to their afflictions because that's part of the symptom, their identification with it and it's also supported by the predominant medical view in our society, which has value, but is far from the whole picture.
I'm not suggesting that reading any or all of the books I or anyone else has mentioned will necessarily make a difference to anyone. But they may challenge your thinking, just as they did mine and the Haven did more so, as well as show a different route. I was very identified with my depressed state and suicidal when I went to the Haven, several times, and skeptical. I was experiencing intense mental and physical discomfort as a result of being under intense stress the past year, for many reasons, which I've previously delved into here.
The programs there helped me get through that and rebalance my life by intervening in compassionate ways, challenging my thinking, and offering me other ways of looking at things which just as with true Buddhism and Christianity I am free to take or leave. Over time, I've come to believe in the power of compassion, starting with myself (and working out from there) and the methods which have worked for me and I believe will work for most people, though mileage will vary.
A few months back I would have been mortified and self-hating due to your responses. Now, I accept if for what it is, feedback from your own points of view and experiences. If they don't gel with mine, that's okay. If they do, that's okay. I'm not attached to either result.
As for anger, I have my share and I believe that the healing power of anger properly channeled is much underated. I also believe that anger is always covering up another emotion and that if we do the work, connect with that emotion and express it in an effective manner that can be very healing and in fact is at much of the root of healing. And ADs can mask those emotions and make them very difficult, if not impossibe to access.
Part of my healing has been and is working through my previously poorly expressed (to the administration) dissapointment at the quality of the IT education I received over the past year and dealing with it, in a generally constructive manner by pursuing compensation through various channels and discussing it in detail with both those who agree with me and those who don't.
Anger leaks out sometimes because it is there and it is genuine. However, I am usually less effective when I give it full rein, though on occasion that can be helpful. However, I generally believe the Buddhist take on it that it is like a hot iron ball that you swallow and it burns you all the way through. Which can certainly motivate one, though more often in a reactive manner.
One of the books I've previously mentioned is Undoing Depression by Richard O'Connor who runs a mental health clinic as well as having dealt with his own depression. He believes and makes the case, drawing from his own experience and a cross-section of psychiatric theories, that habits of depression are learned and hence can be unlearned. I concur. He also believes that ADs have their place. I also concur there.
(Here's a sample of some of his thoughts:
"This is an unorthodox theory of change and recovery. I remember how for decades the analytic community debated whether true "structural change," as opposed to mere "symptom relief," could ever come from anything other than full-blown psychoanalysis. Now prominent scientists argue that recovery can come only from medication. These dogmatic positions are appeals to magic, not reason. I believe that people can make substantial changes in how they live their emotional lives, in their personalities, even in their brain chemistry, by replacing what depression has taught them with new, more adaptive, ways of thinking, feeling, relating, and acting." (page 5)http://www.undoingdepression.com/excerpts.html)
However I also believe that just as with crutches for a broken leg, ADs are only part of the picture and are inadequate in and of themselves. You also need to set the leg properly as otherwise you not only will be in pain, you will suffer needlessly. I believe people suffer needlessly and excessively from depression and anxiety because they don't set their emotional fractures properly and hence don't heal properly and hence are weaker rather than stronger in the places where they have been injured and not properly healed.
And sometimes you may have to refracture that poorly healed appendage to properly heal. That to me is whateffective therapy, in whatever form works for you, is all about and in my experience having tried lots of group and one-on-one therapies over the past 25 years the work they do at the Haven is the most integral, clean, effective, compassionate and loving I have experienced. If I don't always do a good job of reflecting what I've learned there, well the learning never ends, though I have and will get better with time and practice. I am only human, even if + thinks (and others perhaps as well) that I am Satan's disciple, in which case I can always claim the devil made me do it ; ).
So I can go on but I won't. Take what you will and discard the rest and feel free to dismiss it all and me with it, if you so choose. That is your choice, not mine. I am at peace with myself, whether any of you are or not and regardless of any point of view you wish to project upon me. And I repeat the Irish toast I previously noted (I'll hold back on the Scottish one): "May the most you desire, be the least you achieve." And if you don't achieve bugger all, well that's unfortunate but that's life...
Posted by Eric on February 26, 2000, at 10:30:29
In reply to NYTimes interesting depression coverage..., posted by dj on February 22, 2000, at 17:29:31
I would like to know who this Dr. Nesse guy is. Is he a MD psychiatrist? Or is he is another asshole eccentric psychologist out to prove something with his research? If he is a psychologist type he has no credibility with me and I negate his opinion.
If this guy has a very strong background in hard science...biology, chemistry, physics, the neurosciences, etc. I would respect his opinion MUCH more. But you gotta realize how much bs is out there when it comes to depression understanding and such. Research conducted by psychologists and other non hard science oriented mental health "experts" is highly questionable.
Anytime you read something in print, you should ask yourself "who is this person who wrote this?" Gotta know who they are, so you can understand what their biases are. Everyone is biased to one extent or another. Psychologist types are biased that depression is the result of environmental influences, bad child rearing, etc. Whereas psychiatrists are generally biased that depression is just another medical problem that is probably genetically rooted and can be activated by environmental stress.
So who EXACTLY is this Dr. Nesse guy? Psychologist type? Or a person versed in medicine and hard science?
Posted by Noa on February 26, 2000, at 10:43:20
In reply to Re: NYTimes interesting depression coverage..., posted by Eric on February 26, 2000, at 10:30:29
Eric, I don't see it as so all-or-nothing. I think depression, and other issues related to the functioning of our brains, is very complex. You can come at the problem from different directions, and usually, in order to be effective, you need to be flexible enough to come at it from several. To me, the evolutionary biology perspective described in the article doesn't preclude a medical perspective at all. What bothers me is when people who see things from the psychological perspective only want to see it from that perspective, and dismiss the medical. Similarly, I think it is a mistake for someone who sees things from the medical perspective to dismiss the possibility that the psychological perspective might have something to offer them in their thinking about depression.
Posted by Brenda on February 26, 2000, at 11:15:08
In reply to Re: NYTimes interesting depression coverage..., posted by Noa on February 26, 2000, at 10:43:20
> Eric, I don't see it as so all-or-nothing. I think depression, and other issues related to the functioning of our brains, is very complex. You can come at the problem from different directions, and usually, in order to be effective, you need to be flexible enough to come at it from several. To me, the evolutionary biology perspective described in the article doesn't preclude a medical perspective at all. What bothers me is when people who see things from the psychological perspective only want to see it from that perspective, and dismiss the medical. Similarly, I think it is a mistake for someone who sees things from the medical perspective to dismiss the possibility that the psychological perspective might have something to offer them in their thinking about depression.
What a trip! I'm new here and just read all the above comments. BTW - I'm a 19 yr. recovering alcoholic - no longer in AA, but still love the 12-steps. There was a time years ago if you were in AA you couldn't be treated for depression with meds. "They" considered it a "mood" drug, and consequently a break in your sobriety. So many people suffered. Personally, I feel there's a zillion kinds of depression. Situational, genetic, etc. Some can be overcome by dj's method - most however, probably need meds and therapy. I know mine does.
DJ - be well. I love the written word. When I was in AA "they" used to say "whatever works," and "don't fix it if it ain't broke." But if I had a broken leg, I wouldn't fix it myself. I think my brain was a little broken and the Zoloft helps with that - also, swimming, gardening, working, therapy, family, pets, and whereever you can find your joy.
Posted by dove on February 26, 2000, at 11:25:17
In reply to Re: NYTimes interesting depression coverage..., posted by Noa on February 26, 2000, at 10:43:20
Well, DJ...
You have changed, you've changed in many ways since I first began reading your posts, your thoughts. You are so much angrier, scathing criticism for those who preach just as yourself.
You speak of compassion, yet there is none, you have none. You speak of an open-mind, yet yours is locked down, slammed shut. You speak of the road to enlightenment, yet the road is well travelled and the dead end is filled with empty shells. You speak of spiritual enlightement, yet we see no evidence. You have no proof, no material results, other than your own diatribe aimed at hurting people, the seekers you claim to belong to. How can you speak as you do and claim healing, claim to be better?
How many of us are literate, educated, and well read. The many influences and guiding lights you advise us to partake of, we have already done. The zen motorcycle of life is nothing more than empty baubles, been there, done that. Pop psychology? No thank you. Talking to exorcise your demons of depression, or OCD, or whatever is not the final solution, and for many, will never be the final solution. How can you explain the lineage of suicide that travels down, across continents and over 300 years?
You would have me bury my head in empty words, empty philosophy, educate myself because you judge me ignorant of knowing myself? I shared my heart and thoughts honestly with you. I listened and read with compassion, and so did the rest. I don't think you see yourself with clarity if you think you are sharing your heart, or that you are speaking with love or compassion. Your words have not been kind nor humble, which are the tenets of certain beliefs you subscribe to, the same tenets that have pulled you out of the mire of depression and so enlightened you.
You have essentially spit on all of us that have been your companions in this journey. Why?
dove
Posted by Katie on February 26, 2000, at 18:49:23
In reply to Good-byes to DJ, posted by dove on February 26, 2000, at 11:25:17
Hmmm, me thinks DJ might benefit by seeing a good psychiatrist and taking some heavy-duty psychotrophic medications.
Posted by Eric on February 26, 2000, at 19:16:00
In reply to Re: magic pill -- NOT...books adieu..(very long), posted by dj on February 25, 2000, at 12:25:12
> > ... It's unfortunate that a lot of people are just looking for the "magic" pill, when therapy or a combination might be more helpful.
> > dj, thanx for yet another, great post!CarolAnn
>
> Thank you, CA, for both reading and commenting. I'm weaning myself off psycho-babble because so many folks here seem focused on the 'magic pill' approach and I'm frankly very tired of reading about pharmaceutical panaceas, which in my view and based on my experience are a crutch that many never seem to let go of, because they are not willing to tackle the core issues and stay focused and obssessing on the symptoms and NOT the cause.
>
> Though my energy and concentration is still not consistently where I would like it to be (though it is generally), since I've used multiple conventional and non-conventional but scientifically sound approachs to dealing with my issues (as documented throughout Psycho-babble)I feel much, much better. And replacing the ADs with sound nutrition, a limited mix of supplements (Siberian ginseng, ginkgo biloba, lecithin, multi-vitmins) from trusted sources (Jamieson) as well as applying the principles J&B (see my posting to Janice, above) and others have drawn from the best of eastern and western medicine and therapies have played a large role in that rebalancing (as I most certainly felt out of balance when depressed and even more so, in different ways while on ADs).
>
You are going to have a long, sad, hard life DJ. Because you are obviously in severe denial about your depression probs. I dont feel sorry for you though. In fact, I despise people such as yourself because people like you give all us other depressed people a bad name. You spread poor information that lay people (those who have no experience with depression) oftentimes believe to be true. I dont think you will make a dent in your depression by reading self help books, taking siberian ginseng, taking vitamins, etc. You are a loser and a wimp. Because you dont have the guts to admit to yourself you have major problems with your health and go on the requisite medication(antidepressants).DJ, I suspect you will end up a scientologist or something. Probably making them lots of money. They love dummies like yourself and you sound like one of them. I dont feel sorry for you one bit DJ even though I know your health is not good.
Posted by Noa on February 26, 2000, at 20:11:12
In reply to Re: magic pill -- NOT...books adieu..(very long), posted by Eric on February 26, 2000, at 19:16:00
Eric, while I understand your anger at DJ's post, I am almost as uncomfortable with the tone of your post, especially the name calling ("loser", "wimp", "dummies") as I am with DJ's posts.
Why must everything get so combative?
Posted by phillybob on February 27, 2000, at 1:38:41
In reply to Re: angry responses, posted by Noa on February 26, 2000, at 20:11:12
Come on people, isn't DJ's only fault here that he truly believes "that ADs are a crutch and that goes against the grain here." Yes, that can elicit some strong anger here, but can't we recognize that his statement is just his opinion?
I, for one, disagree with that opinion solely because it does re-inforce an attitude which will have more negative effects than positive ones. Too many people need medication and are helped by medication and can not live a life without it (and I'd suspect the increased use of meds in the world's greatly increasing population is a more practical way to address and often solve the problem of mental illness than not.) I think the clear majority on this board would agree that meds have a vital place in the treatment of our depressions.
With that said, I found nothing offensive in DJ's sermon because it reflected his experience which could easily be helpful to others here as do the posts on the other treatments, typically medications, themselves. Of course, the type of "treatment" that DJ suggests is not viable for many but could certainly be so for some.
DJ seems to have had a paradigm shift in his thinking about his depression, which due to my current med-free status as I "detox" in anticipation of an MAOI trial, is relevant to me.
While I am somewhat skeptical (my nature) of the true efficacy of his recovery having been in similar situations myselves, I respect that he is feeling better. My skepticism just wonders whether this good mood will parlay itself into mania or whether this good mood's cause has a little too much to do with his having met a gal of late. Either way, if he feels better for now or forever, great!
If he does not, the people on this board will be here for him. Negative posts aimed at DJ directly could alienate him from re-visiting here if times become rough again. And, even though tonight is my first visit, I know that this can be a very helpful place.
If you will read this at all DJ, continue not to respond in anything less than the positive tone (with one post's exception) that you have. Also, while experience for me has not shown that I can maintain recovery outside of meds (nor within, for that matter), I encourage you in your efforts to "be" sustained. But, please try to rethink your personal bias against meds for the benefit of those who do truly benefit from meds (everyone's illness IS unique).
Best wishes!
Posted by Noa on February 27, 2000, at 6:32:59
In reply to To DJ with love, posted by phillybob on February 27, 2000, at 1:38:41
Welcome, Phillybob.
I don't fault DJ for his own journey and where it takes him.
My objections to his posts was that he worded them not in terms of himself and his needs and his experiences, but used words refering to people here and implied that we are all unenlightened, that our use of medication is wrong. Had he spoken only about his experience, which is what he knows, I would not have any objections.
The other thing I did not like about his post was its grandiose and condescending tone.
Also, a bit of history: since DJ stopped taking meds, there have been several occasions when his posts have become extremely combative and hostile. For a while, he was banned from posting because of this hostility. It is true that since returning, which hasn't been very long, he stopped the name-calling nonsense, and seemed to have replaced it with accollades about the leaders of this new approach he likes. Hey, if the approach helps him, more power to him. To some, though, there seems to be a tone of worship about his posts. Which is ok; maybe he needs right now to put all his eggs in that basket. I know what the hopelessness/hopefulless rollercoaster ride is like, and I can relate to the idea of investing so much hope in something that might help me with my illness. I don't know if this is what is going on for him, but I do truly hope he finds in this new approach what he needs.
Posted by Deb R on February 27, 2000, at 7:17:11
In reply to Re: To DJ with love, posted by Noa on February 27, 2000, at 6:32:59
Just wanted to say thanks for your help to me a while back when I was trying to help my Mum. I am sorry to see you go like this. Good luck!
Deb.
Posted by Eric on February 27, 2000, at 11:18:17
In reply to Re: To DJ with love, posted by Noa on February 27, 2000, at 6:32:59
> Welcome, Phillybob.
>
> I don't fault DJ for his own journey and where it takes him.
>
> My objections to his posts was that he worded them not in terms of himself and his needs and his experiences, but used words refering to people here and implied that we are all unenlightened, that our use of medication is wrong. Had he spoken only about his experience, which is what he knows, I would not have any objections.
>
> The other thing I did not like about his post was its grandiose and condescending tone.
>
> Also, a bit of history: since DJ stopped taking meds, there have been several occasions when his posts have become extremely combative and hostile. For a while, he was banned from posting because of this hostility. It is true that since returning, which hasn't been very long, he stopped the name-calling nonsense, and seemed to have replaced it with accollades about the leaders of this new approach he likes. Hey, if the approach helps him, more power to him. To some, though, there seems to be a tone of worship about his posts. Which is ok; maybe he needs right now to put all his eggs in that basket. I know what the hopelessness/hopefulless rollercoaster ride is like, and I can relate to the idea of investing so much hope in something that might help me with my illness. I don't know if this is what is going on for him, but I do truly hope he finds in this new approach what he needs.Noa, Phillybob, accept the fact that DJ is against medication. He is going to have a very sad, rough life because of this. Let him go and dont bother with him. He is a lost cause. Perhaps ten years from now, after DJ has tried all the "natural" treatments and they all failed terribly and he has read all the self help books at the library, DJ might realize he was terribly wrong. Oh well, there went 10 years of his life down the drain. DJ is going to have to learn it on his own.
My point is it is not worth arguing with these sorts of anti-drug types. I have done it before and you get nowhere. Just let them go and let them stay clinically depressed for their whole life. DJ is against psych drugs and when people are like that you cant talk them out of it.
Posted by dove on February 27, 2000, at 11:24:56
In reply to to dj, posted by Deb R on February 27, 2000, at 7:17:11
dj,
I apologize for taking advantage of your taking leave to air my thoughts and pent-up feelings. I should have spoken sooner rather than later and I want to wish you well on your journey. We still care about you, and I think that is why some of us got kinda riled. But a fond farewell I send to you, and I will watch for your updates and visits. Take care dj!
dove
Posted by Noa on February 27, 2000, at 11:51:14
In reply to Re: to dj with kindness, posted by dove on February 27, 2000, at 11:24:56
Erik, I am not arguing with him about the merits of medication or no medication. I have no problem accepting that he is anti-meds, and have no reason to try to convince him. I can accept that this is the way he feels, and that is ok. My beef was with his way of relating to those of us who do see meds as helpful, using language suggesting judgment of us because we see it differently than him.
I don't think we can know if he will come back to meds or not. That is his journey to carve out. We each have our own.
Posted by phillybob on February 27, 2000, at 12:39:19
In reply to Re: to dj with kindness, posted by Noa on February 27, 2000, at 11:51:14
Noa, thank you for the "welcome" and the DJ background. I did not properly give a nod to your feelings regarding the perhaps somewhat arrogant nature of DJ's post except via the connotation implied when I referred to his speech as a "sermon." Thus, I do somewhat agree with you on this.
I guess though since I did not know any history of DJ, this did not seem to bother me so much, and because I was not personally involved in any of this past history, it still does not bother me. At least I do not consider it to be (and still do not) worthy enough of a fault to address.
Yes, DJ is obviously heading in a brave (new?) direction. Yes, he might succeed. Yes, he might fail. Yes, he might land between the two. Time will tell. Yes, it is his journey. I just wanted to be supportive because if DJ succeeds (and there have been "DJ's" who have), then it will be encouraging to those whose nature might be similar to DJ's. A cursory glance at the posts on this board attest to the fact that different treatments work for different people and some not all ... and sadly ... some never fully do.
Me? I'll probably start that round of MAOI's on Wednesday. Anybody/place you can suggest for advice (diet, reactions, etc.)? [I'll post this as a new topic above.]
Posted by PL on February 28, 2000, at 8:17:02
In reply to DJ, posted by Renee N on February 26, 2000, at 1:10:44
A quotation from Robert D. Rayford of the John Boy and Billy radio show.
Posted by Janice on February 28, 2000, at 12:14:40
In reply to Re: DJ, posted by Thanks for your comments some clarification on February 26, 2000, at 3:07:53
hi dj, I don't know if you're still following this posting, but what the hell.
I still (well, in fact, have always thought) think you seem like a great guy. Thanks for sharing all your great ideas with us.
I wish you all the best with being depression free, and honestly believe there is much truth to what you've said. At most, we disagree on a few petty details. All I care about is that you feel better, and thank you for sharing with us how you have gotten there.
I know I've threatened this before, but this time I mean it, I'll be e-mailing you to see how you're doing. Or if you like, feel free to e-mail me janicedoucette@hotmail.com - how's that for a pretty common maritimer's name?
Good luck with the new woman you're interested in. Janice
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 29, 2000, at 1:05:48
In reply to Re: magic pill -- NOT...books adieu..(very long), posted by dj on February 25, 2000, at 12:25:12
> I'm weaning myself off psycho-babble because so many folks here seem focused on the 'magic pill' approach and I'm frankly very tired of reading about pharmaceutical panaceas...
I'm sorry not to have been around, but others have said most of what I would have, anyway.
Yes, the above was a put-down, which can't be condoned.
But being provoked (even to defend pharmaceutical approaches!) doesn't justify name-calling. That was something dj himself was guilty of before -- but did at least refrain from this time.
Bob
Posted by dj on June 7, 2000, at 14:06:45
In reply to DJ...some advice before your departure, posted by Katie on February 26, 2000, at 18:49:23
> Hmmm, me thinks DJ might benefit by seeing a good psychiatrist and taking some heavy-duty >psychotrophic medications.
I haven't been back for a visit since my last post on February 26, until yesterday, when I just did a quick scan of the latest postings to check for familiar names. Less and less of them...
I do appreciate the kinder comments that were posted after my flurry of wrap-up comments. The comment above from Katie is laughable and far off he mark. She might benefit from reading:
The Antidepressant Era by David Healy
------------------------------
Editorial ReviewsFrom The New England Journal of Medicine ® May 14, 1998 The Massachusetts Medical Society. All rights reserved.
Major depression is increasingly recognized as a worldwide cause of morbidity, mortality, and health expenditure. A study by the World Health Organization and Harvard University estimates that major depression is currently the fourth leading cause of disability worldwide.
An epidemiologic study of more than 40,000 people found consistent core symptoms and a youthful age at onset in 10 diverse countries. A committee of geneticists convened in 1997 by the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) concluded that there was sufficient evidence of a genetic basis to support funding large-scale molecular studies of early-onset major depression.
Yet David Healy's scholarly and provocative review of the antidepressant era concludes that "the discovery of antidepressants has been the invention of and marketing of depression..."
For more check out Amazon.com...
I'm still drug free but not anti-drug. Only anti-excessive use of drugs, which has always been my stance, though yes sometimes the bit of heat I've applied has distracted from any light (insight) I had to share. For those of you who felt I was being grandiose, perhaps a bit but no more than many and perhaps more justifiably than some. Or perhaps not...
I'm doing very well, overall, however you cut it and owe that to a great family and friends, good nutrition, paying attention to the needs of my mind, body and soul and being skeptical about dogma and genuinely curious.
Anti-depressants have and had their place. It's not a permanent one for me, never has been and never will be because I think for myself and only wish the same to you all.
Sante!
DJ
Posted by dj on June 7, 2000, at 14:20:01
In reply to Re: To DJ with love, posted by Eric on February 27, 2000, at 11:18:17
> > My objections to his posts was that he worded them not in terms of himself and his needs and his experiences, but used words refering to people here and implied that we are all unenlightened, that our use of medication is wrong. Had he spoken only about his experience, which is what he knows, I would not have any objections.
> >
> > The other thing I did not like about his post was its grandiose and condescending tone.
> >
> Noa, Phillybob, accept the fact that DJ is against medication. He is going to have a very sad, rough life because of this. Let him go and dont bother with him. He is a lost cause. Perhaps ten years from now, after DJ has tried all the "natural" treatments and they all failed terribly and he has read all the self help books at the library, DJ might realize he was terribly wrong...
Just let them go and let them stay clinically depressed for their whole life. DJ is against psych drugs and when people are like that you >cant talk them out of it.Sorry to dissapoint you, Eric but you got it wrong bud. Perhaps if you were to go back and carefully read my many posts you would have a clearer idea. And perhaps not...there are none so blind as those who will not see. I know you believe you understood what you think I wrote but you misinterpreted it, bud, just as did a few other folks who were in blind reaction to what they considered to be my grandiose tone.
My tone was a bit condescending at points, that's my nature and the way I learned to defend myself growing up in a very tough town where sometimes you had to cut bullies off at the knees verbally if you couldn't do it physically. And sometimes when I'm misinterpreted, misread and misquoted I get imapatient and annoyed. That's called being human and has nothing to do with all these pseudo-psychological/scientific diatribes/accusations/ungrounded assertions that you and some folks like to fling about.
I like to deal with reality, not fantasy and that's why I decided to put my focus on real, animate human beings who I can see and hear with my own eyes and ears instead of mediated conversations which are more likely to go off track as some of these did...
So thanks again for those who wished me well.You all may want to keep in mid a Scottish toast which goes: "As good as you are and as bad as I am, I'm as good as you are as bad as I am." There are nicer and nastier ones, I thought I'd settle for the middle way, which is usually my path. Though I also believe in everything in moderation, including moderation (and medication for that matter too...!!!)!!!
Posted by Oddzilla on June 7, 2000, at 18:12:39
In reply to Re: To DJ with love, posted by dj on June 7, 2000, at 14:20:01
Hi, DJ I think you left before I arrived but welcome back. I know people with out of the mainstream viewpoints are not always treated kindly here. (If you hang around long be prepared to deny that you are boBB :-)
I am very interested in the book you mentioned. It seems to me that mental illness is indeed being aggressively marketed.
I am neither for nor against medication either if it is taken voluntarily. Do you consider yourself to have been mentally ill and recovered or how do you conceptionalize what happened to you? What kind of diet and meditation are you using? Feel free not to answer-I'm always afraid of being intrusive.
Best wishes O.
Posted by Janice on June 7, 2000, at 23:38:21
In reply to Re-view Re: DJ...some advice before your departure, posted by dj on June 7, 2000, at 14:06:45
hi DJ,
It's great to hear from you again--I missed your presence here. I am so happy you're doing well.
It's now 15 minutes before my bedtime (have to keep my sleep regular to keep the rapid cycling in control), so I am basically just reading posts. I will read all your posts tonight and respond to you tomorrow.
My mother was just in Vancouver and said it has been raining like mad.
Janice
Posted by shar on June 8, 2000, at 20:13:45
In reply to Re: To DJ with love, posted by dj on June 7, 2000, at 14:20:01
"As good as you are and as bad as I am, I'm as good as you are as bad as I am."
The Long Irish Version:
Here's to you as good as you are.
Here's to me as bad as I am.
As good as you are,
As bad as I am,
I'm as good as you are--
as bad as I am.S
Posted by shar on June 8, 2000, at 20:16:51
In reply to Re: To DJ with love, posted by Oddzilla on June 7, 2000, at 18:12:39
> Hi, DJ I think you left before I arrived but welcome back. I know people with out of the mainstream viewpoints are not always treated kindly here. (If you hang around long be prepared to deny that you are boBB :-)
>
> I am very interested in the book you mentioned. It seems to me that mental illness is indeed being aggressively marketed.
>
> I am neither for nor against medication either if it is taken voluntarily. Do you consider yourself to have been mentally ill and recovered or how do you conceptionalize what happened to you? What kind of diet and meditation are you using? Feel free not to answer-I'm always afraid of being intrusive.
>
> Best wishes O.
Posted by Oddzilla on June 8, 2000, at 21:03:39
In reply to dj and Oddzilla = boBB (couldn't resist!) nm, posted by shar on June 8, 2000, at 20:16:51
:-)
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