![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Reenee N on February 5, 2000, at 1:04:08
Has anyone tried DHEA. I'm sure it has probably been discussed here before, but I didn't catch it or(more likely)forgot what was said. Would it be safe to take if I also take Wellbutrin, Effexor,ADDerall, and bloodpressure medicine?
Posted by Cam W. on February 5, 2000, at 8:43:22
In reply to DHEA, posted by Reenee N on February 5, 2000, at 1:04:08
> Has anyone tried DHEA. I'm sure it has probably been discussed here before, but I didn't catch it or(more likely)forgot what was said. Would it be safe to take if I also take Wellbutrin, Effexor,ADDerall, and bloodpressure medicine?
Reenee - A year or two ago Quackwatch came out with an article on DHEA stating, that while it is probably not that harmful for most people, it probably doesn't do much. In other words, the benefits of taking it do not outweigh the risks. I have the article at work and can get it Monday if you want the particulars. Sincerely - Cam W.
Posted by Renee N on February 5, 2000, at 19:10:32
In reply to Re: DHEA, posted by Cam W. on February 5, 2000, at 8:43:22
> > Has anyone tried DHEA. I'm sure it has probably been discussed here before, but I didn't catch it or(more likely)forgot what was said. Would it be safe to take if I also take Wellbutrin, Effexor,ADDerall, and bloodpressure medicine?
>
> Reenee - A year or two ago Quackwatch came out with an article on DHEA stating, that while it is probably not that harmful for most people, it probably doesn't do much. In other words, the benefits of taking it do not outweigh the risks. I have the article at work and can get it Monday if you want the particulars. Sincerely - Cam W.Thanks, Cam. That would be great.
Posted by JohnL on February 6, 2000, at 4:14:13
In reply to DHEA, posted by Reenee N on February 5, 2000, at 1:04:08
> Has anyone tried DHEA. I'm sure it has probably been discussed here before, but I didn't catch it or(more likely)forgot what was said. Would it be safe to take if I also take Wellbutrin, Effexor,ADDerall, and bloodpressure medicine?
I don't know why, but I hesitate when it comes to messing around with hormones. I believe the only proper way to use DHEA is to first get a blood test to check DHEA levels to see if they are normal or not. Even then, the actual testing procedures vary and may or may not be accurate. And who's to say what's normal or not. I remember trying DHEA once. After about a week I started cycling terribly. I would have days that were composed of euphoria, tearful despair, and vague psychotic symptoms all in a 24 hour period. It was scary. After stopping the DHEA, I settled back to my baseline in about 3 days. It was scary. Based just on my own experience, I would recommend approaching DHEA only with a doctor, blood tests, and a sense of caution.
Posted by andrewb on February 6, 2000, at 16:45:19
In reply to DHEA, posted by Reenee N on February 5, 2000, at 1:04:08
> Has anyone tried DHEA. I'm sure it has probably been discussed here before, but I didn't catch it or(more likely)forgot what was said. Would it be safe to take if I also take Wellbutrin, Effexor,ADDerall, and bloodpressure medicine?
DHEA is probably a victim of its own hype. After being touted as the universal ‘fountain of youth’, studies have shown that DHEA only offers modest benefits to the average person in combating some of the effects of aging. In addition there are risks associated with taking DHEA. A small fraction of DHEA is converted to testosterone and estrogens. Both of these sex hormones have been associated with tumor growth. Also other androgenic effects have been noticed in some people taking DHEA. Women may experience acne, hair loss, hirsutism and deepening of the voice. The hirsutism and voice changes may be irreversible.
That being said, DHEA has been shown to offer great benefit to certain populations. People with HIV and those with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome often have depressed DHEA levels. In HIV, DHEA supplementation to normal levels has been very effective in decreasing fatigue, eliminating muscle loss and dementia and alleviating depression,
Some small scale studies have also shown that DHEA can be effective in treating depression even in treatment resistant individuals. It seems about half of those depressed will be relieved of depression by taking DHEA. How it does this is a bit unclear. It may in part do this by increasing the amount of estrogen and testosterone, both can have an antidepressant effect. DHEA may owe most of its antidepressant activity however to its antagonism of the negative effects of cortisol.
Cortisol, a hormone released in response to stress, is often elevated in those with depression. Elevated cortisol causes depression by impairing serotonergic transmission (and possibly norandrenergic transmission) via the hippocampus. Over time cortisol physically damages the hippocampus, causing dendritic atrophy and neuronal death, thus explaining the shrunken size of the hippocampus in depressives. This damage to the hippocampus predisposes a person to future bouts of depression via abnormal neurotransmitter transmission.
DHEA is able to combat cortisol’s damaging effects. Evidence from several sources indicates that DHEA can act as an antiglucocorticoid (a cortisol reducer). In addition, DHEA protects the hippocampus against the nuerotoxic actions of glutamic analogues such as NMDA (These nuerotoxic actions are increased in the presence of cortisol.).
It is common for depressives to find their memory abnormally poor for their age. It is therefore interesting to note that people taking DHEA for depression also often find their memory improves. For example in one treatment depressive who received DHEA supplementation to normal blood levels, found not only relief for her depression but also memory improvement that included 63% improvement in semantic memory performance.
DHEA improves memory by protecting the hippocampus and allowing it to repair itself. The hippocampus is crucial to certain types of memory.
What does this all mean. For one, if you have depression you should get your cortisol and DHEA levels checked. Especially if you have poor memory. Normal blood levels of DHEA are 300 to 600. The units are ng/dl for DHEA-S (another form of DHEA in the blood) and pg/dl for DHEA. Ignore the normal range values the laboratory uses because they are usually too wide or age adjusted.
It is claimed that if DHEA levels are properly monitored it is almost completely devoid of side effects. For men, if blood levels are below 100, a 200 mg/day supplement of DHEA is required, if below 200 a 100mg/day supplement is required, and a 50mg/day supplement for when levels are between 200-300. If you are a woman, take 50mg/day if your level is below 100 mg/dL and 25 mg/day if it is below 200.
A promising new alternative to DHEA is an analogue, 7-Keto DHEA. 7-Keto does not convert at all into sex hormones. Therefore it does not have the possible side effects like acne or tumor growth. It is also supposed to have stronger memory enhancing properties than DHEA. I take 100mg/day of 7-Keto. I’ve noticed it has taken away my unusual muscle soreness after exercise and has made it easier to put on muscle. Both 7-Keto and DHEA decrease the body’s catabolic (muscle destroying) processes. Prices for 7-Keto vary widely. The best price I have found is at www.nutrition-center.netBest wishes for your health,
AndrewB
Posted by Cam W. on February 7, 2000, at 18:25:53
In reply to Re: DHEA, posted by andrewb on February 6, 2000, at 16:45:19
> > Has anyone tried DHEA. I'm sure it has probably been discussed here before, but I didn't catch it or(more likely)forgot what was said. Would it be safe to take if I also take Wellbutrin, Effexor,ADDerall, and bloodpressure medicine?
>
> DHEA is probably a victim of its own hype. After being touted as the universal ‘fountain of youth’, studies have shown that DHEA only offers modest benefits to the average person in combating some of the effects of aging. In addition there are risks associated with taking DHEA. A small fraction of DHEA is converted to testosterone and estrogens. Both of these sex hormones have been associated with tumor growth. Also other androgenic effects have been noticed in some people taking DHEA. Women may experience acne, hair loss, hirsutism and deepening of the voice. The hirsutism and voice changes may be irreversible.
> That being said, DHEA has been shown to offer great benefit to certain populations. People with HIV and those with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome often have depressed DHEA levels. In HIV, DHEA supplementation to normal levels has been very effective in decreasing fatigue, eliminating muscle loss and dementia and alleviating depression,
> Some small scale studies have also shown that DHEA can be effective in treating depression even in treatment resistant individuals. It seems about half of those depressed will be relieved of depression by taking DHEA. How it does this is a bit unclear. It may in part do this by increasing the amount of estrogen and testosterone, both can have an antidepressant effect. DHEA may owe most of its antidepressant activity however to its antagonism of the negative effects of cortisol.
> Cortisol, a hormone released in response to stress, is often elevated in those with depression. Elevated cortisol causes depression by impairing serotonergic transmission (and possibly norandrenergic transmission) via the hippocampus. Over time cortisol physically damages the hippocampus, causing dendritic atrophy and neuronal death, thus explaining the shrunken size of the hippocampus in depressives. This damage to the hippocampus predisposes a person to future bouts of depression via abnormal neurotransmitter transmission.
> DHEA is able to combat cortisol’s damaging effects. Evidence from several sources indicates that DHEA can act as an antiglucocorticoid (a cortisol reducer). In addition, DHEA protects the hippocampus against the nuerotoxic actions of glutamic analogues such as NMDA (These nuerotoxic actions are increased in the presence of cortisol.).
> It is common for depressives to find their memory abnormally poor for their age. It is therefore interesting to note that people taking DHEA for depression also often find their memory improves. For example in one treatment depressive who received DHEA supplementation to normal blood levels, found not only relief for her depression but also memory improvement that included 63% improvement in semantic memory performance.
> DHEA improves memory by protecting the hippocampus and allowing it to repair itself. The hippocampus is crucial to certain types of memory.
> What does this all mean. For one, if you have depression you should get your cortisol and DHEA levels checked. Especially if you have poor memory. Normal blood levels of DHEA are 300 to 600. The units are ng/dl for DHEA-S (another form of DHEA in the blood) and pg/dl for DHEA. Ignore the normal range values the laboratory uses because they are usually too wide or age adjusted.
> It is claimed that if DHEA levels are properly monitored it is almost completely devoid of side effects. For men, if blood levels are below 100, a 200 mg/day supplement of DHEA is required, if below 200 a 100mg/day supplement is required, and a 50mg/day supplement for when levels are between 200-300. If you are a woman, take 50mg/day if your level is below 100 mg/dL and 25 mg/day if it is below 200.
> A promising new alternative to DHEA is an analogue, 7-Keto DHEA. 7-Keto does not convert at all into sex hormones. Therefore it does not have the possible side effects like acne or tumor growth. It is also supposed to have stronger memory enhancing properties than DHEA. I take 100mg/day of 7-Keto. I’ve noticed it has taken away my unusual muscle soreness after exercise and has made it easier to put on muscle. Both 7-Keto and DHEA decrease the body’s catabolic (muscle destroying) processes. Prices for 7-Keto vary widely. The best price I have found is at www.nutrition-center.net
>
> Best wishes for your health,
>
> AndrewBRenee - I looked up my reference on DHEA and found that it came from the physician's magazine, Parkhurst Exchange. The article was commenting on a website called Quackwatch. (www.quackwatch.com). Instead of giving you the synopsis on DHEA in the magazine, go to the Quackwatch site, scroll down to the 4th section (Questionable Products, Services & Theories), and then scroll to DHEA and click. A very thorough examination of DHEA is given.
There are many other things at this site that look very interesting, in the context of alternative practices. I am going to have to spend a few hours here, myself. Hope this helps you. Sincerely - Cam W.
Posted by Diane on February 8, 2000, at 16:12:55
In reply to DHEA, posted by Reenee N on February 5, 2000, at 1:04:08
I posted some of this a month or so ago. This is an updated version.
I am a 45yr old female, perimenopause.
I started taking 25mg DHEA 12/14/99 Within the first week my hair stopped falling out! and my skin is clearing (drying) up!Background:
At age of 35 my face, for the first time in my life, started to break out... in acne! and over the next 6 yrs into cysts. I finally got it under control with antibiotics but have
always had to wash with Clearasil soap (smells just like pet soap) and apply a 10% Benzoyl Peroxide gel. At around age 38 my hair started falling out. At first allot then just slowly...up until
DHEA. Oh, I also around this same time frame (age 38) started having facial hair, about 20 dark hairs on either side of my chin (gross!)...well that is subsiding alittle as well. I don't have to shave as often.
That's right shave :o( Bleach doesn't cut it and hair removers hurt my skin. Electrolysis, I never looked into.This is the first time I have ever taken a supplement that has actually had a notable effect. I have experienced no ill effects so far EXCEPT weight gain, which I am not sure is due to the DHEA or the fact that I have stopped walking my 5miles a day due
to the weather. According to all I've read (side effects include acne, irritability, fatigue, accelerated growth of facial hair and hirsutism in women) my experience has been just the opposite. My next complete physical is in 7 months...we'll see how it really goes
then.EMOTIONALLY I'm not as negative, am alittle more steady. I feel more alive/awake. I smile and laugh more, I kid you not! It hasn't had any negative emotional effects ...so that's positive.
Just brushing my hair and having only 3 hairs in the brush (instead of 50) and 3 on the floor is enough to lift my mood.
I still use the Clearasil soap but very sparingly. Same with the Benzoyl Peroxide gel and Retin-A...very sparingly.WHAT'S NEW. 2 weeks ago I ran into 7-oxo DHEA (7-KETO™), a naturally occurring metabolite of DHEA, at these web sites:
http://whyfiles.news.wisc.edu:80/103fat2/4.html
http://www.7keto.com/abstract.html
http://www.7keto.com/index.html
....7-oxo DHEA (7-KETO™):
"Unlike DHEA, which is the most common hormone in the blood of a young adult, 7-oxo DHEA (7-KETO™) is not found in the blood of adults, although it is produced in the kidneys.And while DHEA raised blood levels of testosterone in women as much as 10 times above normal, 7-oxo DHEA does *NOT* significantly affect levels of sex hormones.
The compound has passed toxicity tests, which looked at enzymes in the liver and blood hormone levels, and shown itself to be "completely innocuous,". Lardy, chairman emeritus of the Enzyme Institute at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, says "No-one has found any adverse side effects."
What does 7-oxo do?
There are *signs* that it mimics *thyroid* hormone, which causes the body to make more heat, thus burning more calories without really doing anything. An early clinical trial published in the Journal of Exercise Physiology Online looked at 30 obese people who took either a placebo or 7-KETO™, a
commercial version of 7-oxo that's sold as a food supplement.Both groups took three one-hour sessions of aerobic and anaerobic exercise per week. At the end of the eight-week study, the 7-KETO™ group had lost 1.8 percent of body fat, compared to 0.57 percent among the placebo exercisers. Their overall weight loss was 2.88 kilos, about three times the loss
among those who took the placebo.That's a preliminary study, and hardly reason to jump out and buy the stuff.
If 7-oxo is promising, Lardy indicates that even better compounds are lurking in the wings. "We found [7-oxo] on the pathway to the active hormone, but it's not the active hormone." While 7-oxo is more powerful than DHEA, the active hormone might be yet more potent -- if and when it's isolated.
Indeed, we should be speaking in the plural here. "DHEA has so many effects," Lardy says, "that it's not likely that a single hormone would have all those effects." "
-------
I went out the next day and bought some 7-KETO™. The only effect I immediately noticed was a diuretic effect, especially when taken on an empty stomach. That's about it so far.
-------
I have no idea of AD, DHEA interaction. DHEA is a hormonal thing. The only warnings I've seen are "Not to be used by those under 18yrs., pregnant/lactating women, those with liver disorders, men with prostate cancer and women with reproductive cancers and /or reproductive pre-cancerous conditions, breast cancers or
related conditions."
-------
Book recommendation. I've mentioned this book twice before but here it is again.
SCREAMING TO BE HEARD, Hormonal Connections Women Suspect...and
Doctors Ignore by Elizabeth Lee Vliet, M.D.
See it at Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0871317842/o/qid=947127544/sr=2-1/102-2670982-7224813
-------
http://www.smartbasics.com/glossary/dhea_glos.htm
http://www.webadprod.com/dhea/dheafaq.htmMisc. tip: :o)
Cutting out all CAFFEINE has been a real life saver for me. Caffeine makes me angry, then frustrated, than depressed...boom boom boom ...in that order.
-------end, finally eh?
Posted by pstrait on November 10, 2007, at 17:28:59
In reply to DHEA, 7-KETO™, my experience so far, posted by Diane on February 8, 2000, at 16:12:55
DHEA is a sigma 1 agonist which means it amplifies the effects of several other neurotransmitters -- I am not sure what this means for the specific ADs you describe
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 10, 2007, at 18:14:40
In reply to Re: DHEA, 7-KETO™, my experience so far, posted by pstrait on November 10, 2007, at 17:28:59
> DHEA is a sigma 1 agonist
Welcome! And sorry to interrupt, but I'd now like to redirect this thread to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20071031/msgs/794312.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by ianral on March 11, 2016, at 12:46:42
In reply to Re: DHEA, posted by Cam W. on February 7, 2000, at 18:25:53
I was taking DHEA before being diagnosed with Generalized anxiety disorder. It was great for me. It stopped my nighttime restless leg syndrome, made me less tired during the day and other good benefits. The bad side is the really oily skin. I have quit taking it after I started with Effexor, I take 300 mg daily. I am not sure there is an interaction, but oily skin and signs of acne, at age 64, were enough to make me stop taking it. If your going to take it, I suggest low dosage, 25 mg, in the morning.
Posted by ianral on March 11, 2016, at 12:48:33
In reply to Re: DHEA, posted by Cam W. on February 7, 2000, at 18:25:53
I was taking DHEA before being diagnosed with Generalized anxiety disorder. It was great for me. It stopped my nighttime restless leg syndrome, made me less tired during the day and other anxiety related symptoms. The bad side is the really oily skin. I have quit taking it after I started with Effexor, I take 300 mg daily. I am not sure there is an interaction, but oily skin and signs of acne, at age 64, were enough to make me stop taking it. If your going to take it, I suggest low dosage, 25 mg, in the morning.
Posted by tony p on March 29, 2016, at 22:28:04
In reply to Re: DHEA, posted by ianral on March 11, 2016, at 12:48:33
My GP, who is very experienced, is strong on DHEA. I took it regularly a few years back and found it mildly beneficial for my depression -- other benefits, immune system etc. are harder to assess subjectively. I only stopped because my drug plan didn't cover it, and it's fairly expensive in Canada.
I agree that it should only be taken with a Dr's advice after checking blood levels of DHEA and free & bound testosterone at least. Mine were down to pre-adolescent levels.
Very interested in the idea that it might benefit premature memory deficit -- I am suffering from that. I am going to consult my GP. If I go back on it, I'll post here how I'm doing.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.