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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 6 to 30 of 30. Go back in thread:
Posted by dove on January 19, 2000, at 14:19:32
In reply to Re: Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by dj on January 19, 2000, at 8:38:10
Guilty as charged :-) I chomp down on expresso beans and throw a few chocolate chips in for good measure, followed by a a big mouthful of water to wash out all the little pieces of coffee beans stuck in my throat. Now, if you follow-up all this with some drinkable coffee you won't crash as hard when the "beans" wear off.
I always go to the coffee beans when I'm in the darkest corner. I would describe them as almost magical, they even work on non-depressed people like my husband. If I could keep up the ingestion all day, I'd be set :-)
And those headache meds that work in slightly the same way I believe are Excedrin for migraines. Containing Acetaminophen (Tylenol), Aspirin, and Caffeine. Only drawbacks, eventually they don't work and you'll get headaches from not taking it (technically true for coffee beans as well) and the price. I have the generic version from Cub Foods, and my husband says they don't work as well.
So, is it the high caffeine content, and if it is, then why doesn't coffee (drinkable) work in the same manner. And why don't those nifty little caffeine pills work in a positive manner at all? Is it the "form" it comes in?
dove
Posted by JohnB on January 19, 2000, at 14:44:57
In reply to Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by Lucia on January 19, 2000, at 0:45:15
Lucia, give us another post in 2 weeks or month regarding if still working, side effects, etc.
Posted by Noa on January 19, 2000, at 18:26:50
In reply to Re: Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by JohnB on January 19, 2000, at 14:44:57
Hi. Last year I took a book out of the library on coffee and tea. I think I remember it saying that the stimulant effects of caffeine from coffee are broader, sometimes referred to as "dirtier", less focused on the areas needed to stimulate.
But I would agree that many people with depression, or ADHD, often look to caffeinated coffee for help in feeling better and better able to function.
I myself have gone through times when I have been dependent on coffee. SOme of those times , I would say I was habituating to it, and needed more and more to feel awake and alert. I have taken myself off of caffeine use on a regular basis, and only use it when needed, like after a sleepless night or when driving long distances. Once I start to have it for a few days in a row, I am hooked again.
Posted by Brandon on January 19, 2000, at 19:31:21
In reply to Re: Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by Noa on January 19, 2000, at 18:26:50
I remember reading one time that in addition to caffiene coffee also contained some chemicals that were closely related to the opiates. Could it be that brewing the bean either destroys those chemicals or lowers their content to indescernable amounts? Who knows...interesting though.
Posted by Scott L. Schofield on January 19, 2000, at 21:46:08
In reply to Re: Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by JohnL on January 19, 2000, at 3:34:52
> I remember once taking one of the over counter pain relievers for a headache and feeling unusually good relief from my depression. I tried it again the next day out of curiosity and again had this strange unexpected feeling of relief. For some stupid reason I forgot about it until now, and I don't remember which pain reliever it was.
Excedrin? (sp?)
- Scott
Posted by jd on January 19, 2000, at 23:06:44
In reply to Re: Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by Scott L. Schofield on January 19, 2000, at 21:46:08
Hmm... chocloate-covered coffee beans but not plain coffee and/or chocolate. Sounds kinda weird, but then again the mind is a weird thing.
Your story brings back a memory from two years ago or so. I had hosted a party and had *lots* of left-over chocolate covered espresso beans, just like the ones you mention. I immediately developed this ritual where every day, the moment I woke up, I headed straight for those coffee beans. Something in me really liked that chocolate/caffeine combo, but I never really gave it that much thought at the time...
-jd
Posted by jd on January 19, 2000, at 23:54:48
In reply to Re: my coffee bean anecdote, posted by jd on January 19, 2000, at 23:06:44
I couldn't resist looking up the opioid/coffee connection mentioned by Brandon. (Partly for personal reasons, I'm a big "responser" to opiates...) Anyhow, below is a cite from PubMed. Though I'd like to think it's an answer to Lucia's coffee bean mystery, two things go a bit against this: (1) the chemicals are opiate *antagonists*, i.e., more like naltrexone than an immediate euphoric like morphine; and (2) they're apparently in instant coffee too, not just the beans (though I'm actually not sure about the brewed stuff.) Food (or drink) for thought, in any case...
--jdNature 1983 Jan 20;301(5897):246-8
Coffee contains potent opiate receptor binding activity.Boublik JH, Quinn MJ, Clements JA, Herington AC, Wynne KN, Funder JW
Opiate receptor-active peptide fragments (exorphins) have been identified recently in casein and gluten hydrolysates, and morphine has been found in bovine and human milk. To determine whether similar peptides or alkaloids occur in other foodstuffs, we have screened potential sources using a rat brain homogenate assay to detect opiate receptor activity. We report here that instant coffee powders from a variety of manufacturers compete with tritiated naloxone for binding to opiate receptors in the rat brain membrane preparations, with no significant difference between normal and decaffeinated coffee. The receptor binding activity resembles that seen with opiate antagonists, in that there was no change in the half-maximal effective dose (ED50) in the presence of 100 mM Na+; on bioassay, the activity was similarly shown to be antagonistic and specific for opiate-induced inhibition of twitch. Preliminary characterization of the activity reveals that it has a molecular weight (MW) in the range 1,000-3,500, is heat-stable, ether-extractable, not modified by enzymatic digestion with papain, and clearly separable from caffeine and morphine on TLC. As its concentration in an average cup of coffee is five times the ED50, these data suggest that drinking coffee may be followed by effects mediated via opiate receptors, as well as effects of caffeine.
Posted by Lucia on January 19, 2000, at 23:58:08
In reply to Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by Lucia on January 19, 2000, at 0:45:15
Thanks for all the great feedback.
I've continued my coffee-bean therapy and so far so good.
Another random substance that has dramatically helped me is smoking water pipe tobacco.
Middle Eastern water pipes are often smoked with a sweet apple tobacco called Nakhla. The first time I tried it, inhaling deeply, my depression immediately lifted. I felt great for about a half hour, and then I returned to my depressed state. It only works, though, if I haven't smoked it in a while. (Not like the daily effectiveness of coffee beans!)
If I know of two substances that quickly and radically alter my mood for the better, is it possible to deduce what common active ingredients (if any) they contain that my brain is responding to so dramatically? Based on this, could I make any more of an educated guess as to what ADs would be more effective for me?
To Dove: you mentioned coffee beans have helped with your depression, what ADs have been effective for you?
Thanks for the input.
Lucia
Posted by Phil on January 20, 2000, at 19:09:12
In reply to Re: Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by Lucia on January 19, 2000, at 23:58:08
Lucia,
You sound like alot of fun to hang out with!!
Phil
Posted by JohnB on January 21, 2000, at 3:15:59
In reply to Re: Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by Phil on January 20, 2000, at 19:09:12
> You sound like alot of fun to hang out with!!I agree, Phil. I'd say Lucia is not one who always follows the beaten path.
As regards chocolate, I heard recently, (TV News?) that chocolate has trace amounts of THC in it. Any one else verify?
Posted by dove on January 21, 2000, at 9:19:27
In reply to Re: Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by Lucia on January 19, 2000, at 23:58:08
> To Dove: you mentioned coffee beans have helped with your depression, what ADs have been effective for you?
Well, I've not tried that many ADs yet, but can say without a doubt that I haven't found "the one" or "the ones". I have been taking low dose Amitriptyline (Elavil) for 10 months, it prevents my migraines and helps me sleep, that's about it.
Prozac, suicidal and numb, horrible experience. I stayed on it for the full trial which at the 8 week mark had me minutes away from in-patient.
Adderall, for ADHD, helps me get things done that are lame, doesn't help my depression, I have a feeling it's actually adding to my moodiness.
Wellbutrin (Bupropion) SR, helps, not enough but better than nothing, keeps me from getting suicidal in the evening/late night.
I've tried all shapes and sizes in the "naturals" category, (Inositol, SJW, 5-HTP, Kava-Kava, Ginseng, more-many more) with no effects or very *negative* effects. The only other med besides Wellbutrin that has helped was Verapamil, a calcium-channel blocker. So, coffee beans are the quickest and most powerful AD I have found, except I can't keep it up, tolerance is rapid and the let-down for me is harsh.
What have you tried, or found that worked?
dove
Posted by Seedwoman on January 22, 2000, at 18:52:53
In reply to Re: Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by dove on January 21, 2000, at 9:19:27
The effectiveness of the beans as opposed to processed forms may have to do with some of the alkaloids besides caffeine that are present in the original state and perhaps (I am guessing here)are destroyed or diminished during the brewing process. and chocolate of course has theobromine as well as other alkaloids. who knows, they may have some interesting synergy.
Posted by JohnB on January 23, 2000, at 3:36:21
In reply to Re: Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by Seedwoman on January 22, 2000, at 18:52:53
I'll see you all at Starbucks!
But seriously, when I binge on (liquid) coffee, I also try to take lots of vitamin B. It helps with the coffee jitters and post-coffee let down.
Also I'd think that any coffee remedies might not be appropriate for those subject to panic attacks or extreme anxiety.
Posted by dj on January 23, 2000, at 21:24:31
In reply to Re: Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by JohnB on January 23, 2000, at 3:36:21
I believe I've read somewhere or other that coffee and colas wash some of the vitamin and mineral content out of you, or at least block their efficacy.
Still, I do go in for my morning fix though I don't drink several coffee cups of expresso first thing, as I once did and I attempt to intake some chai, green and other teas to balance out as well as lots of water. However, when I awake most mornings it does take a mug or two or caffeine before I become semi-coherent and civil, often.
> But seriously, when I binge on (liquid) coffee, I also try to take lots of vitamin B. It helps with the coffee jitters and post-coffee let down.
>
Posted by jamie on January 24, 2000, at 3:29:38
In reply to Re: Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by JohnB on January 23, 2000, at 3:36:21
Whether coffee beans help depression or not I think depends on the individual person's chemical imbalance. With me too much chocolate, coffee, or even just a few coffee beans makes me very depressed. Coffee beans in particular can send me over the edge into the despairing crying zone for two or three days. Whatever chemicals they affect, they are the wrong ones with me.
jamie
Posted by Lucia on January 24, 2000, at 18:00:36
In reply to Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by Lucia on January 19, 2000, at 0:45:15
I'll post soon with an update on my coffee bean therapy. In the meantime, just found this article from about a year ago about an institute at Vanderbilt for the study of coffee.
---------------------------------------------
Coffee’s Medicinal PowersVanderbilt Launches Coffee Institute
Java junkies will soon have a new haven: The Institute for Coffee Studies in Nashville, Tenn.
Scheduled to open within the next six months, this facility on the campus of Vanderbilt University will be devoted to the study of coffee’s many as-yet undocumented healing effects.
“We’ll be looking at coffee on molecular, cellular and physiological levels,” says Peter Martin, a professor of psychiatry and pharmacology who will head the new center.
There will be plenty to study besides caffeine, which is about 3 percent of coffee, Martin says.
Of special interest to Vanderbilt researchers are chlorogenic acids — natural compounds in coffee that may have profound effects on the opiate centers in the human brain.
“This reinforces the notion that people drink coffee because they like the way it makes them feel,” says Martin.In the 1980s, a group of Australian researchers determined that certain chlorogenic acids have similar effects as naltrexone, the active ingredient in the only FDA-approved pharmaceutical product for the treatment of alcoholism.
Chlorogenic acids are found in all kinds of coffee, from Folger’s Instant to Starbucks’ French roast. However the quantity and composition of chlorogenic acids can vary in each cup of joe, depending on the way that the coffee is roasted and brewed.
“We know of at least five of these compounds,” says Martin, “but there may be several more.”
An understanding of chlorogenic acid’s effects may be helpful in treating depression, alcoholism and other disorders.
Another researcher, Edward Giovannucci of Harvard Medical School, has determined that the risk of colorectal cancer is 24 percent less among people who drink four or more cups of coffee per day.
“These are just some of the compelling reasons to study the pharmacology of coffee,” says Martin.
Initial funding for the Institute for Coffee Studies — about $6 million — came from trade groups in Brazil, Colombia and other major coffee-growing nations. Martin is adamant that these sources will not influence research.
“We’re working very hard to stay arm’s length of the coffee industry,” he says. “We’re an academic medical center, and autonomy is very important to us.”
Coffee sellers will also benefit from the institute’s autonomous stance.
“We won’t be put in a position where any positive findings are discounted, just because the public perceives us as pawns of the coffee industry,” Martin says.
By creating an independent board of directors, charged with reviewing the quality of all future research, Martin will prevent trouble from brewing and ensure any criticism of the program is without grounds.
Posted by Lucia on January 25, 2000, at 23:56:48
In reply to Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by Lucia on January 19, 2000, at 0:45:15
Hi All,
As I expected and dreaded, the coffee beans are losing their efficacy and I have quickly built a tolerance. Last thursday I had taken a large dose (probably 30-40 beans) felt great thursday night, all of friday and saturday morning. Saturday afternoon I felt myself slipping back into deep melancholy and took roughly 40 beans. I felt no different after an hour. I took another 20 beans and within a half hour, I felt great. Two hours later I slipped right back into unbearable sadness. And I've stayed there. I'm thinking of staying off the coffee beans for a little while and see if they'll work again down the road.
Let's hope that institute at Vanderbilt comes up with some promising results.Hope you are all well,
Lucia
Posted by Noa on January 26, 2000, at 7:22:52
In reply to Re: Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by Lucia on January 25, 2000, at 23:56:48
That is what happens to me on coffee. I started needing more and more, just to stay awake and alert.
Sorry, Lucia, I know it is a loss when something you hope will continue to work doesnt.
Posted by torchgrl on February 9, 2000, at 2:17:54
In reply to Re: Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by Noa on January 26, 2000, at 7:22:52
Wow, I never thought I'd participate in this thread, let alone carry it over from an archive--in almost 29 years, I've never been much of a coffee person. I used to be a big Diet Coke freak (in fact, that was about the only liquid I consumed, including for breakfast every day) someone freaked me out about aspartame about a year ago,and I quit cold turkey (just as well, I'm sure!). But DC isn't as caffeinated as coffee, so I've always kept coffee in reserve for when I'm in DESPERATE need of staying awake. About 2 weeks ago I decided to start drinking coffee in the morning at work, to try to wake up more and pay attention to what I was supposed to be doing (i.e. stay off the internet/Free Cell game), since it seems to work so well for the rest of the known world (well, most of the rest, anyway). Now, I seem to have noticed a correlation between my coffee consumption and my mood--I'm much cheerier now that I've joined the ranks of the coffee drinkers, as much as I hate to admit it. Has anyone been in a position to notice if addition of some kind of stimulant/activating med to one's regimine has had a similar effect, or is the consensus that coffee has its own magical properties, and I've merely stumbled on the reason why Americans are such huge coffee fanatics?
I recently started taking Celexa (see other post)but I don't think I can attribute this questionable improvement to it... Thoughts?
Posted by Noa on February 9, 2000, at 6:28:53
In reply to Re: Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by torchgrl on February 9, 2000, at 2:17:54
I am helped by stimulants (ritalin) but there's something about coffee.....
It doesn't do as much for me as it used to, but I used to feel hypomanic on coffee.
Lately, I have only been sleeping about 4 hrs a night because I have no idea why, perhaps anxiety, perhaps the disruption of going to pee so much cuz of the lithium, and not being able to go right back to sleep, but when really tired in the am, I have been having coffee again (I had quit a few months ago). It helps a bit, but not enough and I think it is making me irritable later in the day.
I have been drinking coke at work lately, out of thirst and need for cafeine, and craving. This is a huge mistake to get into the habit, because with lithium I need to drink a ton, and I should stick to water or I will gain more weight.
I find the ritalin helps to be alert, and when it wears off, I am a bit foggy.
Posted by lad on May 24, 2000, at 9:30:04
In reply to Re: Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by Noa on February 9, 2000, at 6:28:53
I seem to recall that there was a study a year or two ago about coffee and depression. It involved a group of nurses who did or did no drink it. There seemed to be less depression the the coffee drinking group. The conclusion was that there were still other variables to consider (like if the depressed ones were already on medication that precluded them from drinking coffee in the first place).
Posted by Noa on May 25, 2000, at 7:20:54
In reply to Re: Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by lad on May 24, 2000, at 9:30:04
I have become wary of coffee research, because every year or two a new study is announced with findings that are in total opposition to previous findings. I never know what the real story is, if there is one. That being said, your post does make me think.
BTW, I just heard about a study saying that drinking coffee is associated with lower risk for alzheimer's. Supposedly this is a good study, because it was a prospective longitudinal study of over 8000 people's overall lifestyle and health. They followed them for many years, and tracked all types of health measures. It was a specific population--Japanese Americans in Hawaii--which may not necessarily be generalizable to other populations, but because of the study design, is considered good research. The association between coffee and not having alzheimers could be attributed to a few things besides causality, of course, like maybe people who are averse to drinking coffee because of the stimulant effects might also be more prone to alzheimers, etc.
Posted by grannybabble on May 25, 2000, at 10:30:11
In reply to Re: Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by Noa on May 25, 2000, at 7:20:54
> I have become wary of coffee research, because every year or two a new study is announced with findings that are in total opposition to previous findings. I never know what the real story is, if there is one. That being said, your post does make me think.
>
> BTW, I just heard about a study saying that drinking coffee is associated with lower risk for alzheimer's. Supposedly this is a good study, because it was a prospective longitudinal study of over 8000 people's overall lifestyle and health. They followed them for many years, and tracked all types of health measures. It was a specific population--Japanese Americans in Hawaii--which may not necessarily be generalizable to other populations, but because of the study design, is considered good research. The association between coffee and not having alzheimers could be attributed to a few things besides causality, of course, like maybe people who are averse to drinking coffee because of the stimulant effects might also be more prone to alzheimers, etc.Hi Noa- I just read an article in the newspaper that
that said coffee drinking was associated with reduced
incidence of Parkinson's in men. I'm a coffee drinker
although I'm not a man so I hope this turns out to be
valid for women too. It would be nice to have one of
my habits turn out to be HEALTHY for a change.
Posted by richyben on March 4, 2002, at 7:32:08
In reply to Re: Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by grannybabble on May 25, 2000, at 10:30:11
hi,
ive started smoking ground expresso beans this seems to help
Posted by beardedlady on March 5, 2002, at 14:18:09
In reply to Re: Coffee Beans relieve my depression, posted by grannybabble on May 25, 2000, at 10:30:11
The deal with coffee and Parkinson's seems to be this: MEN who drink five or more cups of coffee per day are less likely to develop Parkinson's Disease. It's not quite good news. It doesn't mean you can avoid the disease by upping your coffee intake. In fact, it really doesn't mean a lot of anything. Green tea is supposed to have antioxidant benefits, but you have to drink something like eight cups a day for it to make any difference.
Many doctors say that drinking more than three cups of coffee or tea a day is bad for your heart and other body parts. So go figger.
(In case you're wondering, I used to publish a coffee magazazine and now write a newsletter for a coffee company, so I'm always researching coffee stuff.)
: )>
This is the end of the thread.
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