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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 27. Go back in thread:
Posted by Noa on October 3, 1999, at 17:15:10
In reply to Re: Ritalin SR, posted by anita on October 3, 1999, at 14:34:37
I didn't know there was an SR for ritalin. Is it only in the brand name? How long acting is it? Does it make it harder to sleep than the regular?
Posted by dove on October 4, 1999, at 8:25:02
In reply to Ritalin SR, posted by Jay on October 3, 1999, at 13:12:46
My daughter took Ritalin (Not Sustained Release) and Ritalin SR, both worked about the same. She would get flustered when they started to take effect, really no difference at that point. The Sustained Release had slightly less up-and-downs but not by much. She did not like the way she felt, never knowing when to expect the drop or the increase. She felt very out-of-control contrasting with when it was working and she felt very calm.
It helped her a lot but the fluctuations, even with the SR, were common throughout the day, as was the fast crash and rapid onset, essentially driving her nuts. She switched to Adderall with a big difference. She could no longer pinpoint the second it took effect and neither could we. It did not leave her crashed out and actually she couldn't tell when it had worn off. The stability during the day was just incredible, she felt normal instead of being controlled by the Ritalin.
Hope you have better luck with the SR than we did. It is better than the regular Ritalin but honestly, not by much.
dove~
Posted by Noa on October 4, 1999, at 18:27:58
In reply to Re: Ritalin SR, posted by dove on October 4, 1999, at 8:25:02
Does she find the adderall less overstimulating? About how long does the effect last with adderall?
Posted by dove on October 4, 1999, at 18:55:52
In reply to Re: Ritalin SR/Adderall, posted by Noa on October 4, 1999, at 18:27:58
> Does she find the adderall less overstimulating? About how long does the effect last with adderall?
The Adderall 'appears' to last twice as long (4-6 hours), it is so much harder to tell because there's no extremes in mood changes or physical behavior. When the Ritalin kicked in, it was so apparent and when it wore off you could see it like the back of your hand, no question. She feels 'normal'(her words) on the Adderall, she felt 'insane' and 'out-of-control'(once again her words) on the Ritalin. The Adderall seems to ease her mundane worries and anxieties.
The Ritalin did not ease her anxiety what-so-ever, although outwardly she appeared calm. It made her compliant but not actively compliant. She would be very lethargic and calm (too calm in my opinion) when it was working, then 15 minutes later she was climbing up the walls agitated and unable to control her emotions or even understand what she was feeling and why. She felt very unstable and hated the extremes she felt moment-to-moment. The Adderall has not produced any of these effects so far. We hope it never does but if it does I guess we'll just have to deal with it :-)
dove~
Posted by Noa on October 5, 1999, at 4:18:00
In reply to Re: Ritalin SR/Adderall, posted by dove on October 4, 1999, at 18:55:52
>
> The Ritalin did not ease her anxiety what-so-ever,
I am not surprised--it is known to increase anxiety, I think.
Posted by anita on October 5, 1999, at 17:30:21
In reply to Re: Ritalin SR/Adderall, posted by Noa on October 5, 1999, at 4:18:00
My experience with Ritalin/Ritalin SR and Adderall is that Ritalin helped
with my depression but Adderall did not. Adderall does have a much "smoother" effect,
but for me caused more insomnia due to its longer half-life. I think if Ritalin causes ups & downs
and too much crashing, Adderall is definitely worth a try.anita
Posted by Lori on October 5, 1999, at 23:34:01
In reply to Re: Ritalin SR/Adderall, posted by anita on October 5, 1999, at 17:30:21
My daughter took both Ritalin and Adderall for depression. The Adderall was better for her because it was "smoother"; however, both of these drugs gave her an initial "high" which wore off after a week or so. She tried increasing the dose to achieve the same relief, but eventually came off both Ritalin and Adderall because they always lost their effect. She also had concern about the addictive properties of both these drugs when taken in higher doses for an extended period of time. If the effect of Adderall had lasted at a constant dose, she would have continued taking it. For the short period of time the Adderall worked, she said it was the best she had ever felt.
Posted by saint james on October 6, 1999, at 0:31:38
In reply to Re: Ritalin SR, posted by anita on October 3, 1999, at 14:34:37
> Hi Jay,
>
> I've been taking it for atypical depression. What do you want to know? One thing -- my pdoc said that many people need to take it twice a day
> (morning and afternoon) because even tho it is sustained-release, it can wear off way before the end of the day. I found this to be true in my case.
>
> anita
>James here....
Rit moves thru the body quickly so for many the SR is the best way to take it. Some people are rapid metabolizers of Rit, so any formulation of it leaves them with periods of not being on a med.
This happened to me, as a child SR worked so well that I only took it for one school year, and on it quickly sailed ahead of the class and next year did not need it. As an adult, even SR left me not on it most of the time, ie very roller coaster; Dexadrine is more even for me.james
Posted by saint james on October 6, 1999, at 1:44:39
In reply to Adderall, posted by Lori on October 5, 1999, at 23:34:01
> My daughter took both Ritalin and Adderall for depression. The Adderall was better for her because it was "smoother"; however, both of these drugs gave her an initial "high" which wore off after a week or so. She tried increasing the dose to achieve the same relief, but eventually came off both Ritalin and Adderall because they always lost their effect. She also had concern about the addictive properties of both these drugs when taken in higher doses for an extended period of time. If the effect of Adderall had lasted at a constant dose, she would have continued taking it. For the short period of time the Adderall worked, she said it was the best she had ever felt.
James here....
This is pretty common with ADD and stims, most don't get the high after the first week or so.
Then 1 or 2 things happen, either they find a dose that works and don't have to increase it or
they regulary have to increase the dose to get results. In the latter it is better to find another med than a stim to use.For me, (I have ADD) 35 mgs of Dex a day is about the right dose. I take less if I do not need to focus as much and none if I am going to goof off all day. Too little, like 10 mgs 2X a day, makes me sleepy. Some ADD'ers are unfazed with any dose of a stim and fall asleep on 100 mgs and above.
j
Posted by Noa on October 6, 1999, at 21:33:56
In reply to Re: Adderall, posted by saint james on October 6, 1999, at 1:44:39
I take 10 mg ritalin 3x/day to augment antidepresants. I have been feeling better enough lately since increasing the ADs a month ago, that I am now noticing how spent I feel when the ritalin wears off mid day and then in the afternoon. I am thinking about asking the pdoc if going off the ritalin might help me feel more consistent thru the day. First, tho, I will try to cut out the caffeine, because the ebb in energy might be due to the cafeine wwearing off. Any thoughts?
Posted by Janice on October 7, 1999, at 20:27:14
In reply to Re: Adderall, posted by Noa on October 6, 1999, at 21:33:56
Great point Noa, I just thought I'd emphasize it a bit with the subject matter. I'm an addict too and would love to quit, but I want to hear it'll be worth my while. Thanks in advance, Janice.
Posted by Dee on October 7, 1999, at 20:58:26
In reply to Anyone addicted to caffeine, and quit or tried to., posted by Janice on October 7, 1999, at 20:27:14
I wrote a post last month 'Serzone with coffee' as I had to face the fact that the anxiety attacks I got while on serzone invariably came on half hour after I had my cup off coffee. At the same time I was *graving* coffee. the graving and anxiety coming down pretty well matched the pattern I had with chrystal meth addiction.
I've been going without coffee a week and change now, and I must say that if there is one single thing I could have done to make me feel better this would be it.
The withdrawal is pretty bad, with constant graving, headaches and fatigue, but the worst will be over in three days. For me it wasdefinitely worth it.I was going to ask my doc to up my dose, but I don't feel I need it now.
Dee
Posted by Noa on October 8, 1999, at 0:36:45
In reply to Re: Anyone addicted to caffeine, and quit or tried to., posted by Dee on October 7, 1999, at 20:58:26
The first time I quit caffeine, I did it cold turkey, and had headaches for a few days, felt sleepy for about 2 weeks, and then it was gone. Other times I have quit, I did it systematically by reducing to 3/4 cup regular and 1/4 cup decaf for a week, then half caf for a week, etc. until I was on decaf only. That way, I separated out the "withdrawal" from the coffee experience, and did the cafeine reduction slowly. This was much more pleasant. I would stay off for a while, and then get addicted again because either my apnea would necessitate coffee to stay alert while driving or at work, or I would be on a long trip and need the coffee to stay alert, etc. It did not take much for me to get re-addicted.
Posted by Bob on October 8, 1999, at 9:09:17
In reply to Re: Anyone addicted to caffeine, and quit or tried to., posted by Noa on October 8, 1999, at 0:36:45
It's amazing, with as much caffeine as the average person consumes, that more people don't become habituated to it. For me, caffeine has never had an effect -- a blessing and a curse. Never had anything to depend on to keep me awake for those all-nighters. Anyway, your stories leave me thankful that I could quit cold turkey with no repercussions ... over a month now and not missing it. As for refined sugar, I've weened myself down to those two packs of cookies I absolutely have to buy at the subway station from the "Amish" bakery, but my will almost crumbles every time I have to walk by that stand on the way home! Now, if I could only wean myself off of aspartaeme (or however you spell that).
Hello, my name is Bob, and I'm a NutraSweetaholic.
Posted by dove on October 8, 1999, at 9:30:12
In reply to Re: Anyone addicted to caffeine, and quit or tried to., posted by Bob on October 8, 1999, at 9:09:17
I can't handle nutrasweet, I would rather be largely (is that a word?) endowed all over my small-boned body than eat or drink that bizarre and slightly off tasting chemical :-)
Now highly-caffinated coffee is my absolute favorite addiction. I think of it as an american tradition that has proven wholesome and good for your body. Quite the driving force in our culture and such a wonderful way to socialize.
All those AA meetings, the hazy smoke-filled air, the chain smokers hacking as they light another one, the bitter burnt coffee that everyone is guzzling with shaky hands and haunted eyes and they wondered why we were still struggling to stay sober (HA!). Really though, what a great liquid, I can drink it every which way this side of the Mississippi.
It would really take an incredible amount of will-power to quit drinking it and at this point it's not worth it to me. That's not to say it won't be someday but I truly do enjoy the piping-hot mud colored liquid with it's amazing healing powers and it's anti-sleep-deprivation properties.
dove (in a light-hearted mood today)
Posted by Dee on October 8, 1999, at 10:42:40
In reply to Re: caffeine, (on a lighter note), posted by dove on October 8, 1999, at 9:30:12
BTW I am not going without caffeine. I'm drinking quite a lot of tea (w/sugar). Although there is caffeine in tea, it has almost the opposite effect on me than coffee. It may make me a bit tensed, but not painfully overpoweringly anxious.
Dee
Posted by Sean on October 8, 1999, at 12:20:10
In reply to Caffeine, posted by Dee on October 8, 1999, at 10:42:40
> BTW I am not going without caffeine. I'm drinking quite a lot of tea (w/sugar). Although there is caffeine in tea, it has almost the opposite effect on me than coffee. It may make me a bit tensed, but not painfully overpoweringly anxious.
> DeeI can't imagine quitting coffee now. I love the
whole ritual. I read somewhere that coffee drinkers
have a lower suicide rate than the generel population.
I think this may be relevant to all of us here...Is it really that bad for you?
Posted by Noa on October 8, 1999, at 17:44:42
In reply to Re: Caffeine, posted by Sean on October 8, 1999, at 12:20:10
I love coffee too. Is it bad? Who knows. Every coupla years we hear conflicting reports. BUt for me, I suspect the fluctuations in energy, concentration, etc. during the day might be due to either ritalin rebound or caffeine rebound. And I can't drink any coffee later in the day or I won't sleep. Now that my higher AD dose is working, I have been feeling a little too revved, and I am thinking of trying cutting caffeine to see if it helps. Dee--I also don't react to the caffiene in tea the same way as that in coffee. A lot of very strong tea might be stimulating, but usually the typical cup or two doesn't seem to absorb for me.
Posted by Janice on October 8, 1999, at 21:02:01
In reply to Re: Caffeine, posted by Noa on October 8, 1999, at 17:44:42
Everyone seems to be saying different things. I want to get well and remain well, but not be puritanical. North America has become so puritanical over the past decade? Sometimes, I can barely stomach this aspect of NA ... but I know all this 'puritanism' is because we are learning more and more. I have a hard time adjusting to it. Can I let my coffee and tea go?
I'm going to Hawaii this week and I may go cold turkey... haven't decided yet. America is a great country but your tea and coffee are certainly not your greatest accomplishments. Absolutely no offence meant - everyone can't do everything right. Janice
Posted by Bob on October 8, 1999, at 21:42:08
In reply to Still undecided ..., posted by Janice on October 8, 1999, at 21:02:01
> America is a great country but your tea and coffee are certainly not your greatest accomplishments.
More than enough reason not to imbibe, then ... or, if you must, then go for quality, not quantity. Get the imports.
Besides, hawaii's supposed to have good coffee, right?
Anyway, Janice, the Puritan spirit has nothing to do with eating well per se. There's a difference between being told by some authority what not to do and choosing for yourself based on achieving wellness. I love Coca-Cola. But I gave it up (and now, diet Coke as well) because of both the caffeine and the food coloring. I have DREAMS about McDonalds french fries (well, okay, I do have my moments of weakness here), but I'm off of saturated and partially-hydrogenated fats, and anything I know with trans-fatty acids. I'm doing really well at weaning myself off of refined sugar. I have maybe one glass of wine a month. I'd cut the nutrasweet as well, but I eat one of those wormy-looking high fiber cereals every AM and they make them palatable now by dosing them up with the stuff.
But I do it all because I want to be well, not because I want to be good.
Besides, there are lots of other things than these that I can be corrupt about ... ;^)
Bob
Posted by saint james on October 9, 1999, at 1:34:11
In reply to Anyone addicted to caffeine, and quit or tried to., posted by Janice on October 7, 1999, at 20:27:14
> Great point Noa, I just thought I'd emphasize it a bit with the subject matter. I'm an addict too and would love to quit, but I want to hear it'll be worth my while. Thanks in advance, Janice.
James here....
It is always best to slowly reduce the dose, so you will not have to go thru withdrawals. We have no idea how much caffeine is in colas, they don't have to put how much they add on the label. I was drinking 12 diet coke's a day b4 I stopped. I was eating a hole in my GI linning. Ginsing is a good
sub. if you need a psycostim.j
Posted by Noa on October 9, 1999, at 2:22:45
In reply to Re: Anyone addicted to caffeine, and quit or tried to., posted by saint james on October 9, 1999, at 1:34:11
I agree with James about going gradually if you decide to quit caffeine. The other point is that I really believe you have to decide based on observation of how these things affect you personally. We have all commented on how the medications affect each of us differently, and the same is true with caffeine, etc. Do you need to go off caffeine? Try to observe your own physiological reactions to it before deciding. And if you do make a change, go gradually. Why suffer, especially on your vacation to Hawaii?
Posted by dove on October 9, 1999, at 9:58:18
In reply to Still undecided ..., posted by Janice on October 8, 1999, at 21:02:01
I have to agree, generic American coffee (Folger's, Hillsbro, Nescafe) really does suck. I went to France as a teen and learned how to make real coffee and it changed my whole outlook on the beverage :-)
Janice, have a wonderful time in Hawaii!
~dove
A side note: I've had quite a number of friends from Ireland who all drank tea by the gallons. I introduced them to real coffee made from real coffee beans and they became filled with energy and vigor. They were able to deal the hectic pace of American life, or so they said :-). Most of them, well actually all of them, quit drinking it when they returned home.
Posted by Jane (janey girl) on October 10, 1999, at 20:00:34
In reply to Re: Still undecided ..., posted by dove on October 9, 1999, at 9:58:18
Caffeine raises the insulin level in your body
which gives you that immediate, but short-term
energy boost. With that high-powered insulin
fix going, you are more likely to crave foods
high in sugar, or eat more of anything, in fact.Getting rid of caffeine, or reducing your intake,
lessens the symptoms of PMS (bloating, craving,
moodiness, breast tenderness, headaches, insomnia).Getting caffeine out of your system also reduces
breast fibrocystic disease.Asparatame and saccharin also increase food cravings,
while refined sugar screws the insulin, too.Me? Heck, I'm no saint. I get my own beans --
half caffeinated, half de-caf - and grind my own.
Drink de-caf diet soda, though I'm weaning off of
it and slowly switching to green tea (iced).I use very little refined sugar, usually only in
my cereal. Two teaspoons of the good-tasting stuff
is worth it.My two cents.
Jane
Posted by Patti on January 11, 2000, at 7:56:46
In reply to Ritalin SR, posted by Jay on October 3, 1999, at 13:12:46
> Does anyone here have any experience with this drug? I was just prescribed 20mg. once daily for attention deficit disorder. Thanks
>
> jayMy 15yr old takes this and it works like magic. You can see the effects right away,he is much nicer and much more patient. He has ADD and since he was not diagonisted until 8th grade I feel that this has made him a behavior problem, very hostile. I felt at first very guilty for all those years of making him try to "behave" Like I said the Ritalin works magic and if he was to take it once in the morning and once at lunchtime I know my home would be much happier and peaceful but like all teen agers he has no problem only "his mom" has the problem and the ritalin does "nothing for him" but many other people (teachers, coaches and siblings) beg to differ
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