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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 77. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Michael83 on September 19, 2006, at 21:58:06
There is this girl I've been in love with for 8 years, I haven't been able to tell her because I get far too nervous about it. In fact, I'm so scared around her and I love her so much I could never tell her how I feel because if she rejected me I don't know how I'd live with it. Do you know what it's like to be in love with someone for 8 years and they probably don't even have a clue you feel this way?
Well that's not my problem.
My problem is this.
On her myspace profile, she says she Buddhist (she's white, from Christian background), and as many of you know, I fear constantly that I'm going to go to hell for not believing in Christianity (see link at bottom for details). I have extreme panic attacks about it.
Now, not only do I have to worry about myself, I need to worry about her going to hell.
I do not accept Christianity. I am an educated person. I've read dozens of books on religion and philosophy, I've put more thought and energy about religion and God during my short 22 year old life, than more so called "religious people" ever do in their 70 or 80 years of life. Christianity becomes more and more absurd as the day goes by, but was brainwashed to believe it's true and I still worry (out of intellectual humility) that's I'm wrong.
The fact is that I'll NEVER again believe in Christianity (as I was raised). Not because I'm mad, or bitter, or arrogant. Solely because I choose to use the logic god gave me to survive. Most of the greatest intellectuals of the world did not believe either. Believe by "faith" you say? Mark Twain said "Faith is believing in something you know isn't so." Isn't that the truth.
I always thought this girl I loved was the church type, so I wasn't worried about her going to hell. Now I do have to worry.
Sorry I'm just venting: Why should she be punished because she doesn't subscribe to Christianity's ridiculous ideals? How can a god with infinite love punish someone for all eternity for not believing in something that doesn't make sense to them? Is that really love? Eternal punishment doesn't sound very loving.
God, you come down and explain this to me. YOU'RE the one who started all this. I didn't ask for this life. Didn't ask to believe what I believe. My mind operates this way because you created it like this. And save the "God works in mysterious ways" nonsense. That's an intellectual forfeit.
19th century writer Samuel Butler once said, "Jesus died on the cross just once, and only for a few hours, but no one ever mentions the millions he's been crucifying in a quiet way ever since."
I'm living proof of that.
Just more anxiety for my life I guess.
For those who are unfamiliar with my problem, I posted this a while back when I was at my worst (in recent times at least). Since then it's gotten better, but today was a real set back. I'm panicking again.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20060517/msgs/645388.html(excuse the grammar and spelling errors in this message, I'm panicking a bit right now, quite nervous)
Sorry if this post offends, I truly am sorry. I do not mean to try to take any's belief away from them. If you're happy believing what you believe, good for you, that's all that matters. But me, I found out the truth, but I must say, it's not always easy to live out the truth.
Can anyone knock some sense into me before I lose my mind?
Posted by gardenergirl on September 28, 2006, at 8:31:34
In reply to Having panic/anxiety attack again, ADVICE? HELP?, posted by Michael83 on September 19, 2006, at 21:58:06
I think the topic of this thread is better suited for the faith board, so I've redirected it there. Here is a link to the thread and posts there: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20060614/msgs/689849.html
Thanks,
gg
Posted by Phillipa on September 28, 2006, at 19:16:31
In reply to Redirected to Faith board » Michael83, posted by gardenergirl on September 28, 2006, at 8:31:34
gg how come you don't include the posts that went first on the thread? I can't remember them. Love Phillipa
Posted by gardenergirl on September 28, 2006, at 23:37:59
In reply to Re: Redirected to Faith board » gardenergirl, posted by Phillipa on September 28, 2006, at 19:16:31
I'm lost. Which posts?
gg
Posted by Phillipa on September 29, 2006, at 19:07:57
In reply to Re: Redirected to Faith board » gardenergirl, posted by Phillipa on September 28, 2006, at 19:16:31
The ones that were already posted in this thread? Love Phillipa
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 29, 2006, at 22:59:32
In reply to Re: Redirected to Faith board » gardenergirl, posted by Phillipa on September 28, 2006, at 19:16:31
> I think the topic of this thread is better suited for the faith board, so I've redirected it there.
>
> gardenergirlThanks for trying to keep the board on-topic, and I know it can be confusing, but although this thread has to do with faith, I don't think I'd consider it supportive of religious faith, which is the idea at the Faith board. So I'm going to unredirect it...
> how come you don't include the posts that went first on the thread?
>
> PhillipaThat can be confusing, too! She did, but posts that are redirected may continue to show up during the transition to a new archive.
Bob
Posted by Phillipa on September 29, 2006, at 23:02:10
In reply to Having panic/anxiety attack again, ADVICE? HELP?, posted by Michael83 on September 19, 2006, at 21:58:06
Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.Love Philllipa
Posted by Michael83 on September 29, 2006, at 23:02:13
In reply to Re: Having panic/anxiety attack again, ADVICE? HELP? » Michael83, posted by Phillipa on September 19, 2006, at 22:11:41
"Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs."
That's not what Christians think.
It is however what I said in my post...
"Sorry if this post offends, I truly am sorry. I do not mean to try to take any's belief away from them. If you're happy believing what you believe, good for you, that's all that matters. But me, I found out the truth, but I must say, it's not always easy to live out the truth."
If I offended you I am sorry Phillipa.
I've apologized for offending people every time I've brought this up to anyone.
Funny thing is, no Christian has ever apologized to me for the nights I spent crying. Or the night I thought about killing myself 4 years ago. Or the constant anxiety I live with.
I even prayed one night this past summer and I forgave Jesus, with all my heart, to what he's done to me and so many others. I really forgave him.
But some would tell you that's not enough and I'm still going to hell.
I don't mean any harm, I just want to be comfortable with what I believe.
Posted by Michael83 on September 29, 2006, at 23:02:20
In reply to Re: Having panic/anxiety attack again, ADVICE? HE » Phillipa, posted by Michael83 on September 19, 2006, at 22:27:15
It's one thing to tell me I'm going to hell, that's fine.
But I put others I love ahead of me, so much worst when they say someone I love is going to hell.
Everytime I think of it, I imagine myself telling God, "You can pick on me all you want, that's fine, but don't you dare touch those I love."
Posted by Phillipa on September 29, 2006, at 23:02:23
In reply to Re: Having panic/anxiety....and it's one thing..., posted by Michael83 on September 19, 2006, at 22:30:04
Michael I think it's the opposite and I've offended you. I'm very sorry for that. It seems like you're a very God loving good person to me. Do you take any meds or see a doc or have anyone in real life to talk to. Oh it's hard life if hard. But please don't get down on yourself you're a very special person of God. And so are the ones you love. I think I need to read your original post again. I think I may have misunderstood. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on September 29, 2006, at 23:02:26
In reply to Re: Having panic/anxiety....and it's one thing... » Michael83, posted by Phillipa on September 19, 2006, at 22:49:24
You know Michael there are many forms of God. Buddisam, Islam, Jediaism, and types. But I really feel the advise on the original post was good advise. Have you seen a pdoc or therapist yet? I think you should. And as the others said in the original post not all meds will make you a zombie. Just take away some of the anxiety. And have you considered calling a crisis line? Somethings some very good people would love to talk to you and help you find the right person to help you. We'll help all we can on babble. I'm so sorry for misinterpreting your thread. Please forgive me. It's my fault. Love Phillipa
Posted by Michael83 on September 29, 2006, at 23:02:29
In reply to Re: Having panic/anxiety....and it's one thing... » Michael83, posted by Phillipa on September 19, 2006, at 22:49:24
>>>>Michael I think it's the opposite and I've offended you. I'm very sorry for that.
I just sense some hostility from your post, and you're one of the nicest people on here who will help anyone, so that worried me. But it was probably just a misunderstanding, no one's fault.
>>>>>It seems like you're a very God loving good person to me.
I consider myself a Deist (one who believes in a god in harmony with science and logic, but who does not operate in mysticism or revealed religion), and I have great love and respect for the universe and it's Creator.
But as a Deist, I do not believe in heaven, Jesus, the Bible, miracles, an afterlife, or anything like that. To believe in any of those things is impossible, the best anyone can do is "hope," and I do hope, but I could never actually believe them. I hope, but just cannot believe, ever.
I love the Deist God. No guessing games, false logic, or contradictions. Everything fits together. Life is given real answers.
But what if I'm wrong? I just feel worried for those I love and myself, that'll we'll be punished for following our logic.
>>>>>I think I need to read your original post again.
Thank you for even reading it the first time, it's nice to know someone is listening. I'm just shaken up tonight after finding out someone I love does not believe. I just don't want them to be punished for believing what they believe.
Posted by Michael83 on September 29, 2006, at 23:02:32
In reply to Re: Having panic/anxiety....and it's one thing..., posted by Phillipa on September 19, 2006, at 23:03:17
Oh, no I don't see any sort of professional help or take meds.
I've come close to seeing someone for this, but by then, my fears usually calm down. And it's been getting much better in the past few months (since a big spike in May).
I'm just going to give it some time. I always get better, it just takes time. Unless anyone knows of a pdoc who knows what happens when you die, I seriously doubt they could help me, but if these problems get worse and persist, I will indeed see one.
I just need to go to sleep, calm down a bit, and things will get better, they always do. Just take a little time. I got it bad, but a LOT of people got it a lot worse than me, so I should run off and act like the world is collapsing.
Posted by Michael83 on September 29, 2006, at 23:02:37
In reply to Re: Having panic/anxiety....and it's one thing... » Phillipa, posted by Michael83 on September 19, 2006, at 23:13:02
"so I should run off and act like the world is collapsing."
Should be "so I SHOULDN'T run off and act like the world is collapsing."
Posted by Michael83 on September 29, 2006, at 23:02:42
In reply to Having panic/anxiety attack again, ADVICE? HELP?, posted by Michael83 on September 19, 2006, at 21:58:06
I thought I was going to take a turn for the worst last night. Wasn't looking good at all.
I'm back on track now though. Whew.
Posted by Phillipa on September 29, 2006, at 23:02:48
In reply to I feel better now..., posted by Michael83 on September 20, 2006, at 11:22:27
Michael glad you're back on track. I know what you mean about dying as I'm much older than you and I fear it greatly. We're just here and who can tell us? And there are a lot of scientific theories on man as evolution. I'm as confused as you. Love Phillipa
Posted by Lindenblüte on September 29, 2006, at 23:02:50
In reply to Re: I feel better now... » Michael83, posted by Phillipa on September 20, 2006, at 19:34:06
Michael, I'm glad you're back on track. That's good news. I just want to warn you that it's probably not a good idea to say blanket statements about what people X believe on psycho-babble.
I think the general theme is to try and treat people like individuals here. I think it's a good piece of advice for life in general, but very difficult in practice. For instance, your love says that she's buddhist, but there are many aspects to buddhist belief and practice. Many different cultures are "buddhist" and many people adopt some things from buddhism and other things from other faiths, philosophies or systems of ethics.
How about getting to know your love a little better. Find out how passionate she is about this buddhism thing, if you're curious. Find out whether she has come to it because she's had problems like you have with the predominant religion of her upbringing? It might be something you have in common. A way to get an interesting conversation started? You seem to have a lot of very interesting, well-developed ideas, and I think you'd be really intriguing to a woman who likes to think about big ideas too.
until then- big dreams are nice too :)
-Li
Posted by Michael83 on September 29, 2006, at 23:02:55
>>>>I just want to warn you that it's probably not a good idea to say blanket statements about what people X believe on psycho-babble.
I'm not saying about the people, but the religion itself. If I did make a blanket statement about people, my fault, I'm sorry it was a mistake.
>>>>>For instance, your love says that she's buddhist, but there are many aspects to buddhist belief and practice. Many different cultures are "buddhist" and many people adopt some things from buddhism and other things from other faiths, philosophies or systems of ethics.
I know that, but the Christian religion dictates that a lack of belief in Jesus will lead to eternal punishment. Some Christians believe different, and that's fine, but the Bible is clear. No Jesus = burn in hell.
I'm not going to change a religion to fit contemporary society. It either works, or it doesn't work. Christianity doesn't work, but I still fear I'm wrong.
>>>>>>>How about getting to know your love a little better. Find out how passionate she is about this buddhism thing, if you're curious. Find out whether she has come to it because she's had problems like you have with the predominant religion of her upbringing? It might be something you have in common.
I haven't talked to her in about 2 years. She was a friend from high school, not a close friend, but I loved her, although she didn't know it.
She was raised Christian and simply doesn't believe it anymore, similar to me.
The Bible also clearly says that anyone who becomes a Christian, then leaves the faith, is not allowed back in, and cannot be forgiven (Jesus himself said this).
Kind of a hard situation. I wish I wasn't brainwashed to believe this nonsense. I can't seem to get it out of my life.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 29, 2006, at 23:02:59
In reply to Re: I feel better now... Lindenblüte, posted by Michael83 on September 25, 2006, at 16:07:53
Michael83,
It is written here,[...The Bibile..clearly says XXX...Jesus..said this...].
Really? Is there a verse that says that?
Lou
Posted by Phil on September 29, 2006, at 23:03:01
In reply to Re: I feel better now... Lindenblüte, posted by Michael83 on September 25, 2006, at 16:07:53
....The Bible also clearly says that anyone who becomes a Christian, then leaves the faith, is not allowed back in, and cannot be forgiven (Jesus himself said this).
________I missed that one. What about the prodigal son?
Jesus will always take you back. As long as you have the back rent covered. Something along those lines.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 29, 2006, at 23:03:04
In reply to Re: I feel better now... Lindenblüte, posted by Michael83 on September 25, 2006, at 16:07:53
Posted by Michael83 on September 29, 2006, at 23:03:07
In reply to Lou's response to Michael83's post, posted by Lou Pilder on September 25, 2006, at 17:04:03
It's been a while since I've read it, I had to find it again. But yes, it's Hebrews 6:4-6 .
It basically says if you've believed once, and then lose faith, you are not allowed back in.
My mistake though, I thought I had read a direct quote from Jesus. This book was authored by one of the apostles, but not a direct quote from Jesus himself.
Posted by Phillipa on September 29, 2006, at 23:03:09
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Michael83's post » Lou Pilder, posted by Michael83 on September 25, 2006, at 18:28:32
The bible has been interpreted over centuries by mortals as we. So we don't really know what's true and what isn't. Michael my ex felt the same way after attending Cathoic schools all his life. Your beliefs are yours to do with as you wish. Love Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 29, 2006, at 23:03:10
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Michael83's post » Lou Pilder, posted by Michael83 on September 25, 2006, at 18:28:32
Friends,
It is written here,[...book of Hebrews chapter 6 verses 4-6...it ..says..not back...].
It is generally accepted that the book of Hebrews was written to Jews, hence title of the book of Hebrews. The author is generally accepted to be the Pharisee, Saul of Tarsus. The book is generally accepted to have been written before 70 AD, which has great significance reletive to Jews.
The verses in question are very challenging and I could tell you what has been revealed to me from a Jew's perspective.
If you are interested in what I have been revealed concerning the verses in question, you could email me if you like.
Lou
lpilder_1188@fuse.net
Posted by Michael83 on September 29, 2006, at 23:03:12
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Michael83's post » Michael83, posted by Phillipa on September 25, 2006, at 19:22:42
>>>>>The bible has been interpreted over centuries by mortals as we.
I agree, but most churches in the US and the world, the Bible is not given room for error. In fact, most churches will tell you the writers were "steered" by God to put down exactly what is true, so they will say there are no errors in the Bible.
>>>>>So we don't really know what's true and what isn't.
Then how are we supposed to know what to believe?
If we were given questionable information, who is to blame someone for leaving the faith?
And if they are not to blame for leaving based on faulty, misleading, questionable interpretations, doesn't that contradict the whole "belief in Jesus is the only way to salvation" concept, which is the basis for Christianity?
>>>>>Your beliefs are yours to do with as you wish.
That's not what the Christian religion tells me.
These are the some of the questions I struggle with on a daily basis.
The Christian religion just does not add up. Not a bit. I just don't have enough self esteem to trust my own judgement though.
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