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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 31. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by happyflower on June 12, 2006, at 15:43:56
Okay, you all know I am taking Psych class, well last week we were talking about "forgotten memories" of horrible stuff.
Well it seems like they saying that most horrible stuff that happens to you, you remember even more so because of the physical reactions like increased hormones and stuff like that duing the event.
Well I think I tried very hard to forget the bad stuff that has happened to me even while it was happening. Then through therapy, some of this stuff triggered the forgotten memories.Like my burn accident I had 6 months ago. I even got the feeling (athough he didn't say it) is why I didn't tell him of this before, it was like he didn't believe that I forgot it.
My book says that this Freudian therory is overused and almost believed by everyone including therapist who know the evidence against it. But my book claims and my instructer says that most "forgotten memories" are false. Well I know for a fact my memories aren't false, I have the burn scars to prove it. I didn't tell my instructor of my experiences and don't plan to. I don't know if I want to research into this (which is what I normally do), maybe I should just talk to my T about it since it is rather upsetting stuff to think about.
The book did say a small percentage of people have dissaccociated their bad abuse, we all disassociate to some degree, but it is over dianognosed. What do you all think?
Posted by Dinah on June 12, 2006, at 15:56:00
In reply to dissassociation child abuse trigger, I am confused, posted by happyflower on June 12, 2006, at 15:43:56
I think some people have a learned talent for forgetting that has been very useful to them at times.
If I set out to do it, I can forget something that happened last week.
I'm very good at forgetting.
And why not? If remembering is a skill, why can't forgetting be? It's just not a way of coping that everyone chooses.
Posted by muffled on June 12, 2006, at 16:09:33
In reply to Re: dissassociation child abuse trigger, I am conf » happyflower, posted by Dinah on June 12, 2006, at 15:56:00
I forget alot :-(
I DO dissociate. But not so much now :-)
Its like having a blackout when drinking. There's just NOTHING.
Sometimes some stuff comes in dribs and drabs. But not usu.
At least I'm not aware of it.
I don't want to remember anyways.
Cuz dissociation is a fear response.
So why would I want to know.
All this stuff makes me nautious.
Got go.
Posted by muffled on June 12, 2006, at 16:10:27
In reply to Re: dissassociation child abuse trigger, I am conf » happyflower, posted by Dinah on June 12, 2006, at 15:56:00
Posted by orchid on June 12, 2006, at 17:07:04
In reply to dissassociation child abuse trigger, I am confused, posted by happyflower on June 12, 2006, at 15:43:56
I have tried to remember my RA pain the next day many times. And even now, I can never remember how I hurt the previous day. I just forget. I have suffered from quite a bit of RA pain for the past 10 years, but I can never remember the pain if you ask me now.
I am pretty sure I block it, but I think it is very useful since oherwise I would have to be depressed so badly.
Posted by Tamar on June 12, 2006, at 17:26:34
In reply to dissassociation child abuse trigger, I am confused, posted by happyflower on June 12, 2006, at 15:43:56
> Okay, you all know I am taking Psych class, well last week we were talking about "forgotten memories" of horrible stuff.
> Well it seems like they saying that most horrible stuff that happens to you, you remember even more so because of the physical reactions like increased hormones and stuff like that duing the event.That might be true of a traumatic incident that happens only once. But I don’t think it’s necessarily true of repeated trauma. And I don’t even think it’s *necessarily* true of an isolated traumatic incident.
> Well I think I tried very hard to forget the bad stuff that has happened to me even while it was happening. Then through therapy, some of this stuff triggered the forgotten memories.
>
> Like my burn accident I had 6 months ago. I even got the feeling (athough he didn't say it) is why I didn't tell him of this before, it was like he didn't believe that I forgot it.I’m amazed at some of the stuff I’ve forgotten. It’s not as if it’s gone forever, it just needs something to remind me. Like your burn accident reminded you of your previous experience.
> My book says that this Freudian therory is overused and almost believed by everyone including therapist who know the evidence against it. But my book claims and my instructer says that most "forgotten memories" are false. Well I know for a fact my memories aren't false, I have the burn scars to prove it. I didn't tell my instructor of my experiences and don't plan to. I don't know if I want to research into this (which is what I normally do), maybe I should just talk to my T about it since it is rather upsetting stuff to think about.
I have done quite a bit of reading about false memories and recovered memories. It can be quite hard going. I think the difficulty is that it’s very polarized: EITHER innocent people legitimately forget traumatic experiences OR bad people make up evil lies about their families. And I really don’t think it’s that simple. I think any theory of memory has to take account of the potential problems that can arise in social and legal contexts from adopting that theory. Sorry, I’m not very articulate at the moment. I hope that made sense.
Anyway, in case you’re interested, my own conclusion based on what I’ve read is that false memories can be planted in the minds of vulnerable people by unscrupulous or untrained therapists, possibly using hypnotherapy as an attempt to uncover buried memories. But if memories emerge spontaneously (or in response to a related incident, like your burn) they are likely to be real. Well, that’s my unqualified opinion.
> The book did say a small percentage of people have dissaccociated their bad abuse, we all disassociate to some degree, but it is over dianognosed. What do you all think?
Actually, I think dissociation is probably under-diagnosed. Or rather, I think a great many people experience it, but don’t receive a diagnosis because they’re not unwell enough to need mental health care.
Just my two cents!
Posted by happyflower on June 12, 2006, at 19:34:07
In reply to Re: dissassociation child abuse trigger, I am confused » happyflower, posted by Tamar on June 12, 2006, at 17:26:34
Tamar,
I hate to bother you but you seem to know a lot about this, but I know you are going through a tough time, so I don't want to make it worse, so it this is too hard, just never mind, okay.
While I was being abused as a child, I would pretend it wasn't happening to me, I pretended that I was in my safe place the woods where I used to hide all day from my mother. But It didn't work very well when it was my brother getting it, so this is why I remembered him being abused but not so much me. But I really got good at being somewhere else while I was being abused.
Growing up I used to pretend it didn't happen, I pretended my family wasn't really my family in order to survive and to feel normal. Would this be concidered splitting? I don't do this as an adult but only while I was a child and adolensence. Any ideas, this is kinda of scary ya know?
Posted by Daisym on June 13, 2006, at 1:32:00
In reply to Re: dissassociation child abuse trigger, I am confused, posted by happyflower on June 12, 2006, at 19:34:07
I know you didn't ask me but, "yes" this is splitting. It isn't uncommon for a child to leave themselves and move away from something that is intolerable. It is your mind protecting you. Some people have a "break" and end up psychotic, others "split" and save themselves from the memory.
Most of the new brain research shows that memory is held in pockets and layers, not in one single area. So triggers can be emotional, physical or any of the senses. Smell is a strong trigger for many people.
We've had lots of debates here about recovered memories. Mostly I can only say that if you've had it happen, which you've had, you just know it happens. Otherwise, I'd be skeptical too, and was. The more I read Daniel Sterns research, the more I can figure out why I am like I am.
I'm curious, how old is your text book?
Posted by B2chica on June 13, 2006, at 10:06:22
In reply to dissassociation child abuse trigger, I am confused, posted by happyflower on June 12, 2006, at 15:43:56
i don't know about others, but i know about mine. last year and the year before i remembered things that i couldn't believe i'd forgotten. but i had. and quite frankly i'm glad i did.
i think things in our lives (like your burn accident) do trigger our memories.i mean we all forget things. there are people that come up to us all the time and start talking and we can't remember who they are until they say something to trigger our memories. if we can forget that...why could we not forget things that are terrible memories?
and i think tamar said (can't remember) but i agree that though we all dissocciate to a degree, i do think that more people than diagnosed dissociate.just my 2c
b2c
Posted by kerria on June 13, 2006, at 11:29:51
In reply to dissassociation child abuse trigger, I am confused, posted by happyflower on June 12, 2006, at 15:43:56
Hi Happyflower,
Isn't it weird what people say in psychology books? i wonder how the writer can make a comment about most 'forgotten memories' when he couldn't have the opportunity to speak to most patients who have them? Why do they have a mindset to believe that memories are false? That's what the real question is. Why don't they want to believe that memories that persons dissociate are accurate?
It conflicts with their ideology, yes of course- but Psychology is a science and they shouldn't be so biased without research to back statements like that up.
There is so many different beliefs in the field of psychology today. i found out that i had DID from a psychology teacher while taking a gen ed psych course. He was a believer of DID being a real disorder but the writer of our class textbook stated that DID is most likely not a true disorder and brought it up in passing as something that was very rare if true at all.
At the time i didn't want to believe i had DID so i pointed to the book to try to have hope that i didn't have a dissociative disorder but later i had to believe that i did. i remember saying "But the book says.." i'm in such bad shape still with living being so separated i know absolutely now.
i think that many professionals make decisions based upon what they want to believe and write to influence people in what they believe, pushing their ideology. Maybe also the writer thinks it's safer and more mainstream and the target colleges will buy it.
It's a diservice to persons that suffer with dissociative disorders and who have been a. - i'm sorry for how it must make you feel Happyflower. i hope that at least your professor is open to the truth about it.
Take care,
kerria
Posted by kerria on June 13, 2006, at 11:42:47
In reply to Re: dissassociation child abuse trigger, I am confused » happyflower, posted by kerria on June 13, 2006, at 11:29:51
Anyone who has had flashbacks with body memories that involve senses about the event knows that the memory is true- there isn't a way not to because having a flashback is experiencing it all over again. We know that it couldn't have come out of nowhere or from hormones, etc.
In the field of repressed memories i think we're the experts. i wish we weren't.
Posted by Tamar on June 13, 2006, at 16:43:13
In reply to Re: dissassociation child abuse trigger, I am confused, posted by happyflower on June 12, 2006, at 19:34:07
> I hate to bother you but you seem to know a lot about this, but I know you are going through a tough time, so I don't want to make it worse, so it this is too hard, just never mind, okay.You’re not bothering me! Talking about this stuff is helpful for me too.
> While I was being abused as a child, I would pretend it wasn't happening to me, I pretended that I was in my safe place the woods where I used to hide all day from my mother. But It didn't work very well when it was my brother getting it, so this is why I remembered him being abused but not so much me. But I really got good at being somewhere else while I was being abused.
I’ve heard of that kind of reaction before. I think it says a lot about your character. Although it must have been very upsetting that you couldn’t distract yourself from your brother’s pain the way you could with your own, actually it says a great deal about your integrity as a person. It means you are capable of empathy. Sometimes kids in abusive situations ‘learn’ not to care about the feelings of their siblings either, and it makes it very difficult for them to form relationships in adulthood.
Memory is a strange thing. I remember my father punching my brother frequently, but when I mentioned it to my brother a couple of weeks ago he had no memory of it at all. And yet I remember it so clearly. I know it happened: I saw it. And you’d think he’d *have* to remember because it must have been traumatic for him. I never thought he would have no memory; I mentioned it thinking he was sure to remember. So in the end both of us were really shocked. I was shocked that he’d forgotten, and he was shocked that I was saying such awful things about our dad.
> Growing up I used to pretend it didn't happen, I pretended my family wasn't really my family in order to survive and to feel normal. Would this be concidered splitting? I don't do this as an adult but only while I was a child and adolensence. Any ideas, this is kinda of scary ya know?
Yes, I think that is splitting. It’s the same kind of thing that happened to me when those guys raped me. On one level I was afraid they’d kill me, and on another level I didn’t believe it was happening. Very strange.
And yes, it is scary. But you did what you had to do in order to survive. It sounds as if this is something you could talk about with your therapist, especially since you’ve done EMDR with him. He must have good ideas about memories.
Posted by antigua on June 13, 2006, at 19:22:53
In reply to dissassociation child abuse trigger, I am confused, posted by happyflower on June 12, 2006, at 15:43:56
Other research has found that the younger the child is when s/he is abused, and the more frequent the abuse (meaning not one-time event), then there is more of likelihood that the person can suffer from traumatic amnesia. Also, if the abuse occurs before the child is pre-verbal, even the adult may not be able to articulate it and it may only come up through feelings of the memories.
just more input,
antigua
Posted by happyflower on June 13, 2006, at 19:43:07
In reply to Other research **Trigger, posted by antigua on June 13, 2006, at 19:22:53
I didn't realize I have splited before and it is kinda of freaking me out.
My T has never talked about this kind of thing but yet I have talked about what has happend to me but we never talked about how I dealt with it WHILE it was happening. We talked about my hideout in the woods where I would I spend my summer mornings and days until my dad would come home.
So what does all of this mean for me now? I don't think I do this now. Am I a canidate for mulit-personality disorder? Or can you grow out of this sort of thing? This is so heavy for me to think about. I had no idea. I am kinda of scared to tell my T about this AND the sex sleep thing too. How did you all feel when you found out this about yourself? I am just totally overwhelmed.
Posted by orchid on June 13, 2006, at 20:54:18
In reply to This is so heavy for me, I feel so overwhelmed :(, posted by happyflower on June 13, 2006, at 19:43:07
Hi Hf,
I was about to post to you couple of hours before in reply to Tamar, but I felt too sleepy so I went to sleep.I had wanted to warn you about this. Don't get scared of labels and diagnosis etc. That is why your T didn't tell you the term *splitting*. It is too scary to think of ourselves as having this diagnosis of splitting.
Diagnosis doesn't mean anything, and for the most part it is irrelevant to our lives. Every diagnosis has with it a range from 1 - 100. And splitting for you could mean really 1 (all that you did was to block yourself from some disturbing emotions and nothing more). Whereas for people with MPD and other such things, it could be really 100. IT really shouldn't be termed as splitting and all the other complicated words. You just blocked yourself and found some good way to cope up with the abuse. That is all there is to it.
USually when people go to medical school and learn of all the diagnosis etc, they get really scared, because almsot all the folks think they have those symptoms. But really they don't have it. Please don't get scared of it. I think you are a very mentally health and happy person, and who doesn't have any major problems with her mental health issue. In fact, that is why even though I said to SV don't continue with psychology, I didn't say anything to you. I felt you were capable of handling the stress. You don't have any of the serious mental health issues from what I have observed here.
Since you are going to psychology classes, there will more and more of this coming up for you. Please remember for all those times, that they don't apply to you. (PArt of the reason why I didn't want to take up medicine or psychology was because of the same fear - taht I would end up thinking I have all the diseases myself).
Posted by littleone on June 13, 2006, at 21:39:30
In reply to This is so heavy for me, I feel so overwhelmed :(, posted by happyflower on June 13, 2006, at 19:43:07
Hi happyflower,
This is what I understand about splitting and dissociation.
The term "splitting" is used in a few different ways. One is a defense someone can employ where they "split" someone else into all good or all bad. For example if a child is sexually abused by her father each night, the child can actually "split" the father into the bad and nasty nighttime father and the sweet and caring day time father. The child cannot bring the two images of the father together into one for various reasons.
"Splitting" is also a term used in relation to your own ego (ie your own self) and I guess a lot of the time it is because we don't want to accept a part of ourselves. For example, rage and even anger has always terrified me and because of this I refuse to acknowledge my anger. The anger doesn't disappear. In my case a part of my ego (my self) has split off to hold and own that anger. Note that this is not DID (the old multiple personality disorder), it is more like an ego state disorder.
Dissociation is different from splitting. Think of dissociation as being a continuum, a big long line. At one end you might have common daydreaming, getting lost in a book, getting lost in your thoughts as you're driving, etc. At the other end you have Dissociative Identity Disorder. And there are a heap of different levels in between. For example, you have PTSD numbing in there, there's dissociative amnesia, fuges, the dissociative thing where you get foggy or don't feel like you're part of reality (forgot the name of it), there's DDNOS. All sorts of things. There's also the ego state disorders that some of us talk about.
So you've got this big long dissociation line and everyone falls somewhere on there. It's just a matter of where. Most people are right down at the bottom end of it with the daydreaming and whatnot. Some of us aren't. But just because you're not sitting at the bottom end, it doesn't mean you have DID. There are lots of places to sit in between the two ends.
Posted by Daisym on June 14, 2006, at 0:11:13
In reply to Splitting vs dissociation *slight csa trigger* » happyflower, posted by littleone on June 13, 2006, at 21:39:30
I want to totally echo what littleone said so well. It is unlikely that you have, or will become, DID. I think you'd know by now. It is pretty unusual, even though we have a number among us here. (That's because we are soo nice! :)
The more I discovered about my own ego states and felt in parts and pieces, the more I worried about DID. My therapist reassured me that while I indeed had these frozen age states, I didn't have multiples. I think you should talk about this with your therapist though. It is likely that a lot of things will be triggered for you as you take this class. I remember my child psych class. I came away feeling like the worst parent on the planet since I never really understood my children before...
Posted by antigua on June 14, 2006, at 10:12:23
In reply to Splitting vs dissociation *slight csa trigger* » happyflower, posted by littleone on June 13, 2006, at 21:39:30
wow, you described me perfectly--splitting the good and bad father, and splitting my anger off from the rest of me.
Thanks,
antigua
Posted by happyflower on June 14, 2006, at 14:04:46
In reply to Splitting vs dissociation *slight csa trigger* » happyflower, posted by littleone on June 13, 2006, at 21:39:30
Hi Littleone,
It is so weird that you used the line thingie to explain what you did because my Psych teacher used the same anology yesterday about a different disorder! LOL
Well your words brought so much relief to me because I was really freaking out and I don't see my T until Monday.
Plus I did a dumb thing, I called my T and left a message Monday about seeing him, and wondering if he was okay. He looked kinda ratty at the gym and wasn't running the ususal way. Then I said well I guess if he wasn't okay I would see him in the obituary pages in the morning. Now I feel like such a dork! LOL I told him he didn't need to call me back, and that is good because I feel like an idiot. LOL I am sure he is getting tired of me telling him he looks like heck. LOL Oh, well , he is getting paid big bucks to put up with me. LOLBut I do think I have that sleep sex disorder that is realatively new, but I fit that profile a lot on a mild scale. My T thought that coming onto my DH while I was asleep was weird or odd, I wonder what he will think when I tell him about the other times when I woke up and I was doing it with my DH while I was asleep! Plus I want to talk about surpressed memories too, Monday ought to be interesting.
At least my Psych class is over at the end of next week. I should get an A, and I am happy about that because it has been over 18 years since I last took a class, plus I have been studing my butt off. I can't image if I had 4 other classes at the same time. Yikes!
Well anyways, thanks so much, I didn't fall into the hole of "will I ever be okay?".
Posted by happyflower on June 14, 2006, at 14:14:07
In reply to Re: Splitting vs dissociation *slight csa trigger* » littleone, posted by Daisym on June 14, 2006, at 0:11:13
Hi Daisy,
Yeah, what Littleone one said was perfect for me. I get it now, I was just freaking. The Psych class has helped me deal with my daugher better since she is intering into the adolecent stage and turning into a creature from outer space. Hey! I am the only one allowed in the house to have mood swings, having 2 is toooo much. LOL But her brain isn't developed, mine is , so I have no excuse.
I really like the class, but it will be over at the end of next week, kinda sad about that. I am going to actually miss my teacher, weird for me. I guess since I am being more open, I am getting attached to everyone. LOL More problems to deal with. What fun. But what is really weird is that she is a women, and I normally never get attached to them probably because of my mother issues. Just weird. I wonder what Freud would say about that one. LOL
Posted by happyflower on June 14, 2006, at 14:17:59
In reply to The problem with labels and diagnosis » happyflower, posted by orchid on June 13, 2006, at 20:54:18
Hi Orchid,
Yup, I feel into that label trap, you are right! LOL Tomorrow we will be talking about skisofrenia (spelling?) , so I will probably think I have that too. LOL
I am glad at least you think I am normal, LOL, I am still not convinced yet. Thanks again Orchid, I appreciate your comments. :-)
Posted by happyflower on June 14, 2006, at 14:27:34
In reply to Re: dissassociation child abuse trigger, I am confused » happyflower, posted by Tamar on June 13, 2006, at 16:43:13
Hi Tamar,
Hey it sounds like you know what I mean about seeing my brother being abused and yet I don't remember as much as me being abused. I find it very interesting that your brother doesn't remember. Maybe it was like me before I had EMDR. Now my T would say normally EMDR isn't used to uncover lost memories. But I think maybe I was surpressing them and maybe they were repressed ones. I don't know I am going to talk to my T about that one.
I guess I need my T more than ever, I am glad I went back to him. I think any less of a T, I would have quit a long time ago and never go to therapy again. I am a very difficult client. I know many of questioned the boundries of my T, but he is a good one, very experieced and hasn't slept with me yet even though I might be very provocitive. LOL At least I thought I was, LOL (he must be gay) Damn boundries, but I guess I am glad they are there. LOL OH, whatever! Blah, blah, blah. Thanks again Tamar! ;-)
Posted by happyflower on June 14, 2006, at 14:32:51
In reply to Re: dissassociation child abuse trigger, I am confused » happyflower, posted by kerria on June 13, 2006, at 11:29:51
Thanks Kerria,
I have noticed that my teacher has her opions that is for sure but so far I agree with most of them, so she must be right! LOL
How did you feel when you learned about DID and found out that you fit that profile? It had be overwhelming to find out that way.
Posted by happyflower on June 14, 2006, at 14:34:28
In reply to Re: dissassociation child abuse trigger, I am conf » happyflower, posted by Dinah on June 12, 2006, at 15:56:00
> I think some people have a learned talent for forgetting that has been very useful to them at times.
>
> If I set out to do it, I can forget something that happened last week.
>
> I'm very good at forgetting.
>
> And why not? If remembering is a skill, why can't forgetting be? It's just not a way of coping that everyone chooses.I agree with you Dinah, but I wish I was better at forgetting things. LOL
Posted by B2chica on June 14, 2006, at 15:16:38
In reply to Re: dissassociation child abuse trigger, I am confused » Tamar, posted by happyflower on June 14, 2006, at 14:27:34
forgive my ignorance here...just curious. i hear all these terms and my heads spinning a bit.
so does anyone know the difference between supressed, repressed or forgotten memories?
are they the same thing?
ignore me if this is a really stupid question ;^)
thanks
b2c.
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