![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 23 to 47 of 72. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 9:04:36
In reply to I don't feel the same way, posted by Dinah on October 16, 2005, at 21:43:38
It colors the way I view our exchanges, I think. Because I know what the rules are, what the boundaries are, what other therapists would likely think of what he was saying or doing.
I think that keeps me from responding spontaneously.
I keep thinking in terms of technique.
Posted by cricket on October 17, 2005, at 10:04:47
In reply to Re: I don't feel the same way » cricket, posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 9:00:17
>
> I am surprisingly difficult to please in the therapy department. I've seen quite a few adjunct therapists over the years, and have strongly disliked most of them. The only one I actually liked is my son's play therapist, who has disappeared as far as we're concerned since the storm.
>
> T2, well it isn't so much that I strongly disliked her as that I sensed she strongly disapproved of me. You guys don't care that I'm eccentric, maybe in part because you can't see me. :) I think she saw it as an affectation, when it really isn't. I'm just eccentric. I think I responded to that.Yes, I understand that. I would hate that someone disapproved, or worse yet saw as a ploy for attention, something that feels like so much a part of who I am. Sometimes my therapist says things like "I don't think that's who you are. I think you are _____ (fill in the blank)." Normally that would bother the cr*p out of me but because he seems to have the best of intentions it doesn't bother me. Maybe it is all about someone who has our best interests at heart.
Usually it's not a sense that someone dislikes me that has me feeling it isn't right. Often they just don't get what I'm saying because I have an idiosyncratic way of expressing myself. But usually the reason I don't like a therapist has to do with their aura, for want of a better word. They're too intrusive and high energy, or too solicitous and fluffy.
>
Yes, and your T isn't like that. He is grounded and calming, right? I can understand the dislike of intrusive and high energy or solicitous and fluffy. They sound like more female qualities (is that sexist of me?) so maybe you should try males.I do know what you mean about auras although normally I hate any kind of new age terminilogy. Recently I had to fill a couple of positions at my job. They all looked good on paper but I went through interview after interview and no seemed to be a fit. It was taking a tremendous amount of time and I usually knew 5 minutes into an interview that the person wasn't going to work. Half jokingly I told human resources that I wanted them just to line everyone up against a wall and then I could at least pick the ones I wanted to interview. So I guess that was aura.
Too bad they don't have display booths for therapists. I'll try #9, definitely not #5. :-)
> Sigh. I guess the truth is that I want my
therapist mommy, however impaired he might be.
>
I think that is a perfectably understandable. I want him for you too :-(
Posted by JenStar on October 17, 2005, at 10:40:56
In reply to I think I'm sorry I know so much about therapy, posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 9:04:36
hi Dinah,
I think it just sucks that your therapist is not able to be a therapist right now, and that he hurt you with his hasty curt emails responses. It sounds like he's NOT that great over email, which is too bad, b/c from your posts here is seems that YOU are very good at writing and expressing yourself thru writing.I'm sorry T2 didn't work out...but I guess it's better to make the break right away before you get entrenched. The thought of that waiting rooms gives me the mental willies, too; I wish it didn't, but it just does. I totally get why you'd be uncomfortable there.
I wish you success in the search for a new T, if you decide to continue. You DO know a lot about therapy! I guess there's a downside, but on the upside, you will always be able to get a good assessment of the T's actions, and will be aware if he/she does something wrong, or something right, or something "weird." You'll be more in control of your own therapy and can be insistent on what you need. I also think it's cool that you're not afraid to say what you need or want.
It's OK to have high standards. :) It makes you YOU. You're a smart, intellectual person with lots of insights into therapy. It stands to reason that some therapists just won't be good enough for you and your needs. Maybe a LOT won't be good enough! And that's OK. If you keep up the search, it's OK to be picky, I believe, b/c in the end you'll get a best match and won't need to do a huge compromise.
good luck. take care!
JenStar
Posted by JenStar on October 17, 2005, at 10:45:51
In reply to Re: I don't feel the same way » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 8:52:54
I don't think it's stupid, I think it's normal that he's on your mind! So long he's been a kind of lifeline for you, a big constant in your life, a guide. It's completely understandable that you're missing his presence and reacting to the big changes in his style and the situation.
It's OK to be protective of him AND mad at him too, I think. I've heard enough good things about him from your posts that I'm not going to suddenly start "hating" him on your behalf, even if he is behaving strangely, crossing boundaries, or lacking lately as a T, and I don't think others would start doing that either.
I'm sorry he's changed lately, but I also respect the many good years you've had with him, and I know things are always so much more complicated than they seem on paper sometimes. I guess that's the tough part -- feeling love AND irritation at the same time! :)
I hope things settle out in a way that is pleasing to you. Post when you can, and take care of yourself!
JenStar
Posted by 10derHeart on October 17, 2005, at 13:01:25
In reply to Re: I don't feel the same way » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 8:52:54
> I also guess I think it's stupid that that's what is most on my mind.
I don't - at all.
More than 10 years?
With what me means to your life, personal stability and well-being?
It took me nearly 12 months to recover from the "loss" (ONLY moving across the country AND I could/can still talk to him as I please by email) of a T. I only knew for 2.5 years, and only closely worked with for meaningful therapy for 8 months! So, was I monumentally stupid for that to be THE first and biggest thing on my mind every single day when I woke up for months and months on end?
I probably thought so at times. But not looking back now. Nope. I was most humanly refecting the depth of his importance to me and my life at that time. And frankly, how much I love him.
Hmmm... Dinah, (sorry for the weak metaphors, etc.) the *house* is falling down around you and now you can't even rely on, or find half the time - the foundation of said *house?* Even weirder and worse, the *foundation* seems to be asking you to help hold it up a little, and understand how it's struggling and not really strong and stable ...to that idea I say: eeeeeek!!!!!
Stupid to worry and think about that? Uh-uh.
You are doing so great, considering. Even though I know you often don't *want* to be doing so *great.*
It totally sucks being an adult at times like this - *THE* adult in your environment, even worse.
Yup - it does. I so, so get that.
Posted by fallsfall on October 17, 2005, at 14:45:17
In reply to I think I'm sorry I know so much about therapy, posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 9:04:36
My therapy did get more effective when I stopped trying to understand what he was doing, and just let him do it. I guess I was spending a lot of time trying to figure out what he was trying to "get" from me. So much time that he wasn't "getting" *me* - he was just getting what I thought he wanted to get. Sort of like I was trying too hard to meet his expectations. And he didn't really have expectations - he just wanted to know *me* (whoever that was).
But the only way I could let go of constantly analyzing what he was doing was to trust him. To trust that he knew what he was doing. To trust that he had my best interests at heart. To trust that he cared. It wasn't until then that I was able to let my guard down and show him who I really am.
And that takes time. I picked him because he was efficient, and smart, and had a dreamy English accent. None of which have anything to do with whether he was trustworthy. You have to have SOME criteria for choosing, but I don't think that it is possible to assess trustworthiness at the beginning.
Posted by fallsfall on October 17, 2005, at 14:48:54
In reply to Re: I don't feel the same way » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 8:52:54
Not stupid at all for him to be on your mind.
I'll try to listen to you with more of a focus on *you* - on how *you* are feeling about the whole business, rather than judging him or commenting on whether he is being helpful to you or not. Would that help?
Posted by orchid on October 17, 2005, at 14:57:30
In reply to I don't feel the same way, posted by Dinah on October 16, 2005, at 21:43:38
I am sorry you are feeling the loss of the connection.
I think some therapists are not very good in writing. Some people are good in talking, some in writing.
I think your therapist just has probably a poor writing style.
Plus, I also think Katrina has affected him more than it has affected you, and maybe he is yet to recover from it himself too.
I think maybe you just need to give him sometime to come back to form. And hang in there with the help of some other therapist.
((Dinah))
Posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 15:45:02
In reply to Re: I don't feel the same way » Dinah, posted by orchid on October 17, 2005, at 14:57:30
Maybe it's the Risperdal, or maybe I'm just in a more up mood today, but I feel more like laughing and rolling my eyes at his latest email than crying.
Or maybe it's because I do still care about the big idiot, and feel in the mood for forgiving him.
Although I still think I'd have to be in a reasonably good, detached, mood to feel that way.
Posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 15:46:38
In reply to Re: I don't feel the same way » Dinah, posted by JenStar on October 17, 2005, at 10:45:51
But if he terminates me for good, I'll give everyone the right to feel as negatively about him as they like.
Posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 16:31:10
In reply to Re: I don't feel the same way » Dinah, posted by cricket on October 17, 2005, at 10:04:47
Chuckle.
I like that idea.
Because while I probably can't tell at a quick look which therapists would work well for me, I can sure tell at a quick look which ones *won't*.
I was hoping to get a bit value added and get a different gender perspective by choosing a female therapist. But if that doesn't work out I'll try a male. It's only three weeks now till I see my therapist (ONLY??!!!).
Maybe I'll wait and find out if he has any earthly idea what his plans may be before I try out any more therapists. Because once I know his plans, I can make mine better.
Geez. I sound like that middle school girl again, waiting by the phone. :(
Posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 16:39:20
In reply to Re: I don't feel the same way » Dinah, posted by 10derHeart on October 17, 2005, at 13:01:25
Eeek! is right.
Sometimes I feel like screaming Too Much Information! Too Much Information! It's sort of like when I found out (ok, this is embarassing) that you could just pull those tiny screws out of a light switch plate and it would come right off. Good grief! Is the house that flimsy?
So it's sort of funny that that's the exact question he asked.
But it's also kind of heady to be in that "special" client position. I don't *think* (and I certainly hope not) that he's so open with all his clients. And I did encourage his view of me as a caretaker a bit. As a way to stay in touch without being intrusive, I emailed him a lot of helpful information while we were evacuated. Like I found out that he didn't listen to the radio as much as I did, so if I heard an announcement that would particularly apply to him, I'd send it off to him with a self-deprecatory note that he probably already had this, but... And a fair amount of the time he hadn't already heard it, and was appreciative that I told him.
And the whole thing did make me feel special and cared for, really cared for, in a way that never even occurred to me in ten years of relationship.
I can't say I'm blameless in this. Even now, when I sort of want to say "Stop. You're the *therapist*. I'm the *client*." I don't. Saying that would mean losing something, and that something may be all that I have left.
Posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 16:42:19
In reply to Re: I don't feel the same way » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on October 17, 2005, at 14:48:54
Weellllll...
I must confess that your criticism has been quite helpful too. It's a bit crazymaking not to know what to make of a situation. To think that something is off, but not to be sure you're sufficiently detached to make an accurate observation. To not know if you're overreacting to something that isn't as bad as you think. It helps to have someone clarify that.
So don't change a thing. :)
Posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 16:44:11
In reply to Re: I don't feel the same way » Dinah, posted by orchid on October 17, 2005, at 14:57:30
I'm going to try. I just wish I knew that he would be there for me to come back to, even eventually.
There's a few things that I will do differently if I know he's terminating me.
And only sometimes do they involve my previous plan.
Sometimes they're more about moving. Maybe building a house.
Posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 17:06:16
In reply to Re: I don't feel the same way » 10derHeart, posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 16:39:20
I remember when Ms. Lott was here, talking about falling into the trap of wanting to feel special.
And I thought "That will never happen to me. Not with my therapist's strong boundaries. Besides, I have no sexual interest in him."
Well, I still have no sexual interest in him, but the rest of it was sheer arrogance on my part.
I did fall into that trap.
I think I started to relate to him in the way I'm most comfortable relating with "grown ups", especially grown up men. I started to relate to him the way I did with Daddy. I always knew the impulse towards my therapist - at least since Daddy died, but he never gave me an inch to do it before.
I took care of Daddy in some ways so that he would take care of me in the ways I needed. So that he would love me, like he didn't love the rest of the family. Because he appreciated that I loved him, and showed it by taking care of him, and he reciprocated by loving me, and showing it by taking care of me.
That shouldn't be wrong, should it?
Posted by orchid on October 17, 2005, at 17:37:54
In reply to Pride goeth before a fall, etc. etc., posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 17:06:16
Everybody wants to feel special to their therapist. Irrespective of sexual attraction or not.
And what you have written about your relationship with your father is perfectly valid. All of us want to go that extra mile to get the affection if it is not offered freely. Kids will go that extra mile to get what they want. Just that every kid shows it in different way - some kids show that they need attention by being sick all the time, some pretend to be indifferent, some rude, some arrogant, some get abusive, some get very polite and nice, some become the woman in the family, some take care of others.
It was not your fault. You just had one of the many coping mechanisms.
Plus, with your T, maybe you ended up developing some of the same feeling - take care of him and try to be extra nice to him and be loyal to him, and hoped that he would reciproacate by treating you special. IT is a trap we all fall into. And then it hurts when it doesn't happen. But guess what, Ts are aware of this attribute, and don't wnat to encourage it, simply becuase it is not good for you in the long run.
Posted by JenStar on October 17, 2005, at 18:50:21
In reply to Pride goeth before a fall, etc. etc., posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 17:06:16
hi Dinah,
I don't think it's wrong. Like Orchid said, it's part of normal human nature and it's just something we all do to some extent.The fact is, you *are* special to him in a certain way since you've been together so long, and there's just no getting around that. The sheer amount of time you've had to develop the relationship -- onesided as it may normally be -- does mean that you *probably* mean more to him than the average client.
I think about people I've worked with or been friends with for 5-10 years. I know it's different from therapy, but I feel a certain special affection for people I've known a long time (as long as they're not jerks or a-holes!) that I dont' always feel for short-term friends.
It's going to be strange, maybe, to go back to being "regular" client and T, if you do go back to it. But if you DO go back to it, maybe you can use this in-between kind of time as a learning experience. He can see how you cope in action, how you deal with stress, how you organize -- SEE it rather than just HEAR about it. Hopefully that would strengthen his insight into your behavior and actions and help therapy leap forward in new directions!
He's a good T in general, and you're a smart/cool person. If you both go back to the standard therapy relationship, I have confidence that you'll figure it out again, and re-establish the boundaries. In the meantime, it's sort of a war zone for people affected by the storm. I think if boundaries get in the way of survival, they *need* to come down temporarily.
I hope you're doing OK. Keep us updated!
JenStar
Posted by Annierose on October 17, 2005, at 18:55:41
In reply to Pride goeth before a fall, etc. etc., posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 17:06:16
Of course it's not wrong, but natural. The difference right now is that you are not receiving regular, on-going (i.e. weekly) therapy with him. Otherwise, these feelings would be perfect conversation for many many therapy sessions. Rather, you're left holding onto these feelings and not being able to discuss them. And on top of that painful aspect of your current relationship, his boundaries have slipped, adding to your confusion.
I like what everyone else said. Especially lining up 20 therapists and picking which ones to interview ... in the line-up, they should be expected to utter a few phrases, such as "We seem to be running out of time today" or "What are you thinking about?" ... just to know if we like their tone.
It sounds like today's e-mail was more comforting to you. I'm glad.
Have you ever heard the song from the soundtrack "Avenue Q" ... "It sucks to be me"? It would bring a smile to your face.
Annie
Posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 19:46:58
In reply to Re: Pride goeth before a fall, etc. etc. » Dinah, posted by Annierose on October 17, 2005, at 18:55:41
This is sort of what happened. I don't know, does this mean I can do it without him?
I went from feeling angry at him to realizing the contribution I made to the problem and my reasons for contributing to it.
Ok, I still think his part of it is funny (at least today I do), but I am beginning to consider my own part in it.
I appreciate you guys, and your confidence that we can one day get back to something approximating normal. I am facing the fact that it won't be easy if he redraws the boundaries, along with the terror that he'll never have the chance.
Annierose, I sure feel that way sometimes. But then I look around me and realize how really fortunate I am. Then I get mad that *this* is fortunate nowadays. What's the world coming to when you can't even have a good wallowing in self pity because you know your neighbors have it ever ever ever so much worse.
Posted by Annierose on October 17, 2005, at 20:58:38
In reply to I miss therapy :(, posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 19:46:58
You are doing without him! But of course you miss him and look forward to your sessions and your e-mails and hope that it can go back to some sort of "normal". Grieving. Grieving so much of what you lost, material and otherwise.
My T always reminds me you can't compare suffering, pain ... whatever label you want to put on it. Everyone deserves to feel better in his or her own life. Everyone deserves to feel loved, understood and apprepriated. And when we make ourselves stronger, we can help lift up those around us, especially our children and our husbands (on occasion).
I hope you don't blame yourself for anything. You were both in the midst of a wide-scale natural diaster. Talking about shaking up the theraputic framework. Everything changed and is still changing.
Go ahead and wallow. But I'm still glad that you thought his part in it was "funny" ... that means you had a smile on your face for at least a little bit.
Posted by fallsfall on October 18, 2005, at 7:22:27
In reply to I miss therapy :(, posted by Dinah on October 17, 2005, at 19:46:58
Yes, you did have a part in the boundaries coming down. But so did he.
And it was his job to keep the boundaries up. Don't discount his responsibility here.
It is always good to see our own contributions, but just because you contributed, that doesn't let him off the hook.
Posted by Dinah on October 18, 2005, at 13:17:14
In reply to Re: I miss therapy :( » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on October 18, 2005, at 7:22:27
It looks like involuntary termination.
I think I'm going to tell him not to contact me anymore until our meeting, which I expect will last about five minutes as he tells me he won't be available to see me anymore.
Life s*cks.
It wasn't supposed to be like this. He was supposed to be forever therapy.
I don't know what to do.
I swing back and forth so. One minute I'm looking up gun dealers, the next minute I'm thinking that I'd be ok without him. I've been ok these three weeks, right? But I haven't been ok.
I want to tell him I don't want to do the sixth even. But then I vear towards wanting to keep the appointment and make him pay for hurting me so. (No, Dr. Bob, I'm not threatening violence toward him. No need to call the police.)
I hate this. I hate him.
Posted by JenStar on October 18, 2005, at 14:11:41
In reply to sigh. Today it doesn't look so funny. Trigger., posted by Dinah on October 18, 2005, at 13:17:14
hi Dinah,
I'm glad that even if you waver sometimes, you always make the "right" decision -- aka avoiding the gun dealers, and doing what it takes to keep yourself healthy and HERE.I'm really glad about that, because even though I know Babble might not be the biggest or most important part of your life, YOU are very important here!
I think you're a wonderful, valuable person and I'm glad that you're here and that you're struggling through all this, even though it sucks.
You WILL be OK in time. It WILL get better. :)
JenStar
Posted by Annierose on October 18, 2005, at 14:25:15
In reply to Re: sigh. Today it doesn't look so funny. Trigger. » Dinah, posted by JenStar on October 18, 2005, at 14:11:41
I wish I knew how to comfort you. But you have survived without him for more than 3 weeks. You really lost your regular on-going support on August 29th, so you are far stronger than you realize.
What changed today? Have you receive an e-mail today from him? Has T3 gotten back with you regarding a referral or rather, she can see you?
You are so valuable. Hold your son in your arms tonight (if he still lets you). Remember how much he needs his mommy, just like you need your mommy-therapist. Yes, he really feels that attached to YOU! And he thinks you're the perfect mommy for him!
Posted by Dinah on October 18, 2005, at 17:25:07
In reply to Re: sigh. Today it doesn't look so funny. Trigger., posted by Annierose on October 18, 2005, at 14:25:15
All that really happened was what he didn't say. He didn't give the reassurance I requested, as he normally has no trouble doing. In fact, he went to a fair amount of verbal gymnastics not to give it.
So I'm assuming that means he can't give it.
I'm trying to remember that you can get through the pain. That it's like any other relationship that ends painfully. It feels like you'll never get over it, but you will. And I've got my son, and my husband, etc. But that's easier to remember once the Risperdal kicks in.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.