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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 234 to 258 of 283. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on July 18, 2005, at 0:06:52
In reply to holy sh*t she's really coming?, posted by crushedout on July 17, 2005, at 22:59:44
Posted by Dinah on July 19, 2005, at 19:01:26
In reply to Re: Chapter 6: Gaslighting, posted by sadmom on July 17, 2005, at 18:19:58
Gaslighting comes from a Hitchcock movie where the husband arranged for the gaslights to be dimmed then denies that they are dimming when the wife notices it, as a part of a campaign to make her believe she's going crazy by denying her reality.
I guess it could apply in therapy, with some therapists anyway. Especially the ones who deny the reality of their part in any relationship, and tell the client everything is in their own mind, or transference.
(My therapist did that to one of my books. And I had offered to pay him to read it!)
Posted by Dinah on July 19, 2005, at 19:06:02
In reply to Re: Chapter 6: Gaslighting » sadmom, posted by Dinah on July 19, 2005, at 19:01:26
If I didn't know better, I'd say it wasn't coincidence that life conspired to put me behind on reading the book at this exact chapter.
But I was early for therapy, and had a chance to read it.
Hmmm... I wonder if that contributed to my anger today?
I dunno. I don't know if I want a *perfect* mother in my therapist. I think a good-enough one will do. He's gotten surprisingly comfortable with my discussions of his milky breast. grin.
I'm not altogether sure what I think about the conclusions of this chapter, partly because it bit too close to home.
Posted by fallsfall on July 19, 2005, at 21:27:42
In reply to Re: Chapter 6: Gaslighting » sadmom, posted by Dinah on July 19, 2005, at 19:01:26
In honor of our discussion of this book I rented "Gaslight". It is an impressive movie. I recommend it.
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2005, at 17:29:23
In reply to Re: Chapter 6: Gaslighting » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on July 19, 2005, at 21:27:42
I find Hitchcock a tad scary. Is this one of his less scary ones?
Posted by Dinah on July 20, 2005, at 17:30:06
In reply to Chapter 7: Dreams of the Perfect Mother, posted by Dinah on July 19, 2005, at 19:06:02
Posted by fallsfall on July 20, 2005, at 17:54:43
In reply to Re: Chapter 6: Gaslighting » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on July 20, 2005, at 17:29:23
I watched it knowing that he was purposefully driving her crazy. It is scary in the sense that one person *can* literally drive another insane. I detached a bit by observing what he was doing to drive her crazy.
Nothing like Psycho or The Birds...
Posted by alexandra_k on July 21, 2005, at 15:53:31
In reply to No one Dreams of the Perfect Mother? (nm), posted by Dinah on July 20, 2005, at 17:30:06
I know this sounds horrid... But I just wanted my mother to get the hell away from me. She had even less of a comprehension of boundaries than I do. She was invasive. E.g., 'put a sweater on you are cold'. I was warm as anything - I was running around. She was cold - she needed to put a sweater on. Then when my putting a sweater on didn't work for her I had to go inside because it was just too cold out there.
And thats a relatively harmless example.
I don't really miss having a mother.
I don't know what it would mean to me to have had a mother that cared for me.
I missed my dad when he left, though.
:-(
Posted by pegasus on July 21, 2005, at 17:40:28
In reply to No one Dreams of the Perfect Mother? (nm), posted by Dinah on July 20, 2005, at 17:30:06
Well, I guess I dream of a perfect support person, but I never thought of that fantasy person as a mother. Don't know why. I always kind of associated it more with a prince charming type of character. Someone who will help me actually live my life.
But, that said, this chapter did resonate with me to an extent. Maybe I'm just not tuned in to an unconscious desire for a perfect mother, or something.
The part that I keep thinking about is the story about the woman who was actually remothered by a type of therapist. I'm fascinated by the idea of being able to "be a baby" again with someone. Dinah, what did you think of that? Did it sound appealing to you on any level?
I found it both very appealing, and really frightening. I kept thinking what would happen if one of you (client/baby or therapist/mother) stepped out of the assigned role for a minute. Wouldn't it ruin the whole fantasy/therapy, and probably even be fairly traumatic? And it seems inevitable that the therapist would step out of the role on occasion.
pegasus
Posted by Dinah on July 21, 2005, at 18:07:53
In reply to Re: No one Dreams of the Perfect Mother?, posted by pegasus on July 21, 2005, at 17:40:28
I would have *hated* that. It even sounds mildly abusive. Especially as she said the *mother* used the babies to get her needs met.
That just sounds like a very very very very bad idea.
Posted by daisym on July 22, 2005, at 1:41:54
In reply to Re: No one Dreams of the Perfect Mother?, posted by pegasus on July 21, 2005, at 17:40:28
I wanted a mother who would have comforted me physically for as long as I wanted her too. She would have caught my tears with her shoulder, instead of reminding me that tears accomplish nothing. She would have rubbed a hurting tummy and used mommy magic to make it better, instead of reminding me that I shouldn't have eaten ice cream. She would have let me sit on her lap and rock outside on the porch after dinner, instead of reminding me that there were still dishes to be done.
I wanted a mother who made me feel safe. She would have let me leave the light on in the hallway because I was afraid of the dark, instead of reminding me that I was a big girl now. She would have said "come get me if you have a bad dream" instead of reminding me that her closed door meant I was not to knock and wake her or (God forbid) dad up. She would have wondered about my withdrawal, instead of reminding me that shy people end up at the end of the line in life.
I wanted a mother who was tuned in enough to sense what was happening and make it stop. I wanted a mother who could see my pain.
I still want that.
I know my therapist can't ever be the mother I didn't have. But truly, one of the best things he ever said to me was that, even if my mother didn't know what was happening, it was OK for me to think that she should have and to feel outrage that she didn't guess and didn't save me, and he makes it equally OK that I love her and still want to protect her. When I ache for these things I'll never get from her, he reminds me that "at least" I have him now to listen to all the hurt and fear and he says he does see the pain and he promised to always leave the hall light on for me -- "so you can find me when you need me."
Posted by fallsfall on July 22, 2005, at 10:09:23
In reply to I wanted the perfect mother., posted by daisym on July 22, 2005, at 1:41:54
I want that for you, too.
Your children are lucky because they do have that.
(((((...Daisy)))))...
Posted by annierose on July 22, 2005, at 20:14:08
In reply to Re: I wanted the perfect mother. » daisym, posted by fallsfall on July 22, 2005, at 10:09:23
Just wanted to let everyone know that I would love to participate in the discussion, as I have been reading along, but I will be out of town :(
If my plane is on time, I should be home around 8 PM, so I'll catch up then.Annierose
Posted by alexandra_k on July 23, 2005, at 17:02:08
In reply to I wanted the perfect mother., posted by daisym on July 22, 2005, at 1:41:54
And now I want one :-(
Posted by daisym on July 24, 2005, at 0:01:39
In reply to Re: I wanted the perfect mother. » daisym, posted by alexandra_k on July 23, 2005, at 17:02:08
I think everyone deserves a "good enough" mother. I think my kids had one, until the past year or so. Because I wasn't afraid to say "I was wrong and I'm sorry" and I always told them how special they are, right now, right here...not that they "will be" or "could be" -- just that they are. And I genuinely like them them. I think they are a hilarious bunch.
I often wonder if I had a female therapist if things would be different for me. I bet I'd be more put together, still trying to prove how competent and strong I am while expecting them to see through that, into the pain. But put together is probably better than this current state. I think I trust men with my emotions more than women, even though I was abused by my dad, not my mom. It is the need to be perfect in her eyes, which means not telling any bad stuff or needing anything from her that she wouldn't/couldn't give. I can't tell you how many times she has told me that I was "such an unhappy child" and she "never knew how to make you happy" and she tells me I was never satisfied with anything, I always looked at her like I expected something more.
I wonder if I look at my therapist like that when I have to leave his office and I'm not ready? I'll have to ask him. I feel sorry for him, having to suffer the transference around mother issues AND father/trust issues. Poor guy.He should charge me for dual roles.
Posted by daisym on July 24, 2005, at 0:03:04
In reply to Re: I wanted the perfect mother. » daisym, posted by alexandra_k on July 23, 2005, at 17:02:08
I'm sorry Alexandra. I meant to add in the above post that I didn't mean to set you off or reactivate something for you.
Hugs from me.
Daisy
Posted by alexandra_k on July 24, 2005, at 1:34:44
In reply to Re: I wanted the perfect mother. » alexandra_k, posted by daisym on July 24, 2005, at 0:03:04
Its okay. It just got me thinking. Mostly about how I'll probably never choose to have kids. Because I don't even really understand what I would have wanted from a Mother. I just wanted her to leave me alone. So how on earth would I be with children of my own?
I typically get on better with guys. Most of my friends are either guys or the not traditionally feminine type. I am wary of females. Because they can turn on you. Because they can hurt you from behind. Because they have a knack of being able to reach inside you and drag out whatever is there no matter how hard you try and conceal it and stomp on it.
I guess I do tend to trust guys more.
Its good for me to have more to do with women.
Babble is good for me like that I think.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 24, 2005, at 1:35:56
In reply to Re: I wanted the perfect mother. » daisym, posted by alexandra_k on July 24, 2005, at 1:34:44
It always suprises me when females are kind to me.
And when I see a woman just being caring I feel all funny.
I guess I just thought it impossible that anyone would care about me like that.
Not an available option.
Not even worth thinking about.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 24, 2005, at 13:40:47
In reply to Re: Deborah Lott this Monday?, posted by annierose on July 22, 2005, at 20:14:08
> If my plane is on time, I should be home around 8 PM, so I'll catch up then.
Sorry, but because of her schedule, we're going to postpone this a little. The new plan is this Thu. 7/28 through Wed. next week 8/3. Sorry,
Bob
Posted by Dinah on July 24, 2005, at 18:12:59
In reply to Re: Deborah Lott this Thursday, posted by Dr. Bob on July 24, 2005, at 13:40:47
Drat. I will be gone for most of it. Oh well, I'll have something to read when I get back.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 24, 2005, at 21:02:46
In reply to Re: Deborah Lott this Thursday, posted by Dinah on July 24, 2005, at 18:12:59
California?
Hope you have a pleasant holiday.
I just found out I get to go to conference in Melborne in September.
:-)
Happy birthday to me
:-)
Posted by annierose on July 26, 2005, at 21:03:11
In reply to Re: Deborah Lott this Thursday, posted by Dinah on July 24, 2005, at 18:12:59
Sorry Dinah that you will be on vacation. I felt badly that I was going to miss the on-line discussion due to this poorly placed business trip. But your input to the discussion is so important, it will be missed.
Enjoy your family vacation!
Annierose
Posted by Dinah on July 27, 2005, at 7:10:48
In reply to Re: Deborah Lott this Thursday, posted by annierose on July 26, 2005, at 21:03:11
Posted by Dinah on April 27, 2007, at 21:02:16
In reply to Good to see you back. :) (nm) » annierose, posted by Dinah on July 27, 2005, at 7:10:48
:(
I had forgotten all about this, but it really was fun.
Posted by DAisym on May 27, 2007, at 1:22:41
In reply to We only got to Chapter 7, and didn't do another bk, posted by Dinah on April 27, 2007, at 21:02:16
It was fun. Let's do another book. How about "A General Theory of Love"?
Or - other suggestions? We could do Yalom too.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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