![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 63. Go back in thread:
Posted by Pfinstegg on August 21, 2004, at 21:16:17
In reply to The real Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on August 21, 2004, at 18:26:56
Thanks so much, gg and Susan! I am just starting to read about these new things, and they really are encouraging for us all. I'm going to a conference in NY in October- usually, it's a psychoanalytic conference devoted to clinical material, but this year, for the first time, it's going to be entirely about the new findings in neuroscience- and how they apply to psychotherapy. I hope I'll learn new things I can post about here.
Posted by Susan47 on August 21, 2004, at 22:36:40
In reply to Re: The real Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on August 21, 2004, at 21:16:17
Pfinstegg, I hope you do too because for me, your post was one of the most hopeful, helpful things I've seen here. Bring us more, please!!!
Posted by Dinah on August 22, 2004, at 0:00:33
In reply to The real Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on August 21, 2004, at 18:26:56
I'm going to have to think a bit more about it. At the moment, I can't see any benefit to my existence even though I've been working for a long time in therapy to release the real me. I'm just not quite grasping *why* right now. I think I remember something about everything getting expressed as anxiety attacks, but I think I'm on medications for anxiety anyway.
I'm going to have to think about it.
I think that on this board you mainly see the Dinah Who Is As She Should Be, guided to a greater or lesser extent depending on the post by the Dinah Who Is As She Is. So I'm not sure what those of you who like Dinah are responding to. The Dinah Who Is As She Should Be can pass as real, I think.
I'm thinking of going back into hiding. I'm thinking that being non-genuine may be a better way to live. My husband sure likes the Dinah Who Is as She Should Be a lot more. In fact, he'd like me to be a bit more "Should Be". My husband's big on shoulds.
I told my therapist that I feel like I'm standing on a ledge deciding whether to jump, even though I'm posing no threat to my physical body. And that's all that matters, right? At least it always seemed that way. And I'm not sure it isn't true. I still haven't figured out what earthly good I am to anyone including myself. I *think* my therapist doesn't particularly like the Should Be Dinah, and prefers the Dinah Who Is as She Is. But even he couldn't come up with a better reason than just that it was valuable to be genuine. That doesn't seem good enough a reason.
If the fake me can fulfill all my functions, and better than the real me - what is my purpose in being genuine?
Posted by Dinah on August 22, 2004, at 0:15:41
In reply to Re: What is the point of being genuine?, posted by tabitha on August 21, 2004, at 16:05:47
I have trouble with middle ground too. Like Linehan's wise mind.
And I wouldn't exactly say Fake Dinah suppresses all feelings or doesn't express any. It's just the relatively limited range of emotions that helped get me labelled schizotypal. Dinah Who Is As She Should Be does righteous indignation superbly. :) And definitely has a better sense of humor than Dinah Who Is As She Is.
Long before I could name my emotions, I used colors to describe them. I did this whole color wheel using a full range of crayola colors, with differing shades and intensities. Then I assigned a name to describe the color. The first few years in therapy, I'd consult the chart to say "I'm feeling brick red... ok that's resentful." Anyway, Fake Dinah has a full range of emotions, but in the bright glittery range. Excitement, amusement, irritation, indignation. Real Dinah has a full range of emotions in the warmer range - and darn it I still can't describe those well. But lavender rather than blue, or crimson rather than fire truck red.
Ohhhh, I'm not making any sense even to myself.
What you said made perfect sense, and when I read it I couldn't figure out why on earth I wouldn't want that for myself. I'm going to have to think about it more.
Posted by AuntieMel on August 22, 2004, at 0:18:54
In reply to Re: The real Dinah, posted by Dinah on August 22, 2004, at 0:00:33
To me, the value of being genuine is that you get to relax. It's a lot of work keeping up a facade.
And, even though it is needed at times, when I do it I feel dishonest.
I think sometimes I get a glimpse of the real Dinah here. I like her better, too.
Posted by Pfinstegg on August 22, 2004, at 1:00:54
In reply to Re: The real Dinah, posted by Dinah on August 22, 2004, at 0:00:33
I know this sounds like a too-simple answer- but I think the reason to allow yourself to be genuine is that you'll feel happier. But when you feel really down on yourself, it doesn't seem like there's any worthwhile person inside you that you can be. The people who love you know that there is, but maybe you can't know it yourself right now.
I think, from what you've posted, that you've got more things stressing you than you have for quite a while. Harry has had an additional loved and loving year that he wasn't supposed to have, which I feel sure you gave him with your love and care, but now he isn't doing so well. And it sounds as though you have been forced by your father's illness to have more interactions with him and your mother than you may think is right for you.
To return to a neurophysiological way of thinking about it: more stress= HPA axis overactivity=cortisol overproduction=less new neurons and less serotonin, nor-epinephrine and dopamine in the your hippocampus= getting depressed. I know I make these irritating excursions into the neurophysiology of it all; if you hate it, just ignore it! Having definitely been severely depressed myself in the past, I know that I don't think normally then- I start to dislike, disapprove and hate everything about myself. I seem like a totally bleak landscape to myself, although I go on acting as though everything is "fine". You don't sound as depressed as I know I've been, but you do seem to be thinking more negatively about yourself than you usually do. It's so worthwhile to take every step you think might be beneficial right now, while it's not too severe. I don't know for sure what helps the most- but, maybe more visits to your T per week, less time with the parents, more undemanding cuddles with your husband and son, any self-soothing, self-nurturing thing that helps- I'm not sure what your most comforting things are.(for me it's warm baths and moisturizing every inch). I think the hardest thing is to do good things for oneself when one doesn't feel at all valuable.
This is a non-sequitur, but in some of the reading I've been doing getting ready for the conference I mentioned, I read how people who hoard have specific abnormalities on their brain scans. It's considered a very tough thing to have, not so common, but very difficult to overcome. I never knew before that it was so specifically brain-based; I thought it had a more purely psychological cause. It must be awfully hard to go into their house and see all that stuff piled up. It would feel to me like they had stopped living, and were just existing- sort of dead, really. I hope it doesn't upset you that I say that.
Let's be sure we keep a dialogue going. I never came out and said so directly, but the support I got from here when I was extremely depressed a year and a half ago really did help me. Now that things are better, i still think about that, and am grateful.
Posted by Dinah on August 22, 2004, at 8:26:07
In reply to Re: What is the point of being genuine? » tabitha, posted by Dinah on August 22, 2004, at 0:15:41
It doesn't even make any sense to me. I was very tired. I think the Provigil that has upped my productivity to almost acceptable levels has also disturbed my sleep pattern.
Posted by Dinah on August 22, 2004, at 8:30:42
In reply to Re: The real Dinah » Dinah, posted by AuntieMel on August 22, 2004, at 0:18:54
Thanks, Mel. :) That is a good thing to hear. It's not a message I get much at home, which really does make me wonder why I bother trying to stay genuine.
And I'm not altogether sure my therapist just isn't particularly crazy about my more productive false self because my surface self doesn't see much use in a therapist and tends to be rather rude to him. Those first five years of therapy were unpleasant at times (for him too). :)
Posted by gardenergirl on August 22, 2004, at 8:44:41
In reply to Re: The real Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on August 21, 2004, at 21:16:17
Yes, please do share when you get back. I'm envious. Sounds like a great conference!
gg
Posted by Dinah on August 22, 2004, at 8:51:27
In reply to Re: The real Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on August 22, 2004, at 1:00:54
No, of course I don't hate it! I find it fascinating. I didn't realize that about hoarding. My therapist has said it's a form of OCD, but I can't feel any anxiety on the part of my mother, and it's hard to recognize OCD in her.
My therapist agrees with you about the depression part. And there's probably a fair amount of truth to it. And a lot of anxiety at what the future will bring. He thinks I shouldn't make any decisions right now, because he suspects any plans that are so *suddenly* different. I've been trying to pull away from him, go once instead of twice a week, because it's easier to let go and drift away from caring and from being genuine if I don't see him. But it is an idea that is consuming me. It seems so perfect. It seems like a way of killing everything in me that is real, but without the ethical considerations of causing harm to others through my actions. Because I don't see that many other than my therapist would care. My husband likes my false front better and makes that clear. I've never been particularly genuine with my son, because it's my philosophical belief that I shouldn't burden my son with genuineness (smile - I guess I wish my parents had put on more of a front for me. They were only tooooo real with me.) I emotionally divorced my mother long ago. My father is a giant two year old and always has been. He doesn't need me to be genuine with him, he needs me to take care of him. (You should have seen how jealous he was of my son, and how he still makes little digs at him. It makes my early childhood much easier to understand.) I haven't been genuine for years with my few remaining friends. Social situations are too stressful for me to be genuine. I was watching a video of my wedding shower yesterday (an event I have absolutely no recollection of despite the video), and I was struck with how well I did. I know for sure there wasn't a shred of genuineness in me, because that sort of situation would bring out the fakest me there is, yet I interacted far better than I really interact. So, other than my therapist, I can't think of anyone who would be affected by my action. So it seems like such a lovely solution. And it probably isn't permanent. It wasn't the first time. In a few years, when it doesn't hurt to be real, maybe I could try again.
I'm sorry to go on so. And very repetitively at that. And I know your well thought out post that I'm replying to is a perfect answer to this one as well. So please don't feel like you need to reply to this repeat post. :) I know I'm stuck in a thought loop, and I realize how very annoying that can be.
Posted by gardenergirl on August 22, 2004, at 9:00:02
In reply to Re: The real Dinah » AuntieMel, posted by Dinah on August 22, 2004, at 8:30:42
Dinah,
When I read your first post in this thread, I have to admit, I was stumped. If I were your T and you asked me that in that way, I would either babble on stupidly, or just say, "that's a good question...let's explore it." (I like the latter response better, but I can't say I can always come up with it.)Perhaps part of my being stumped is that I am depressed right now, too. It's getting better, though, finally. It's been a long summer.
I think I'm in a similar place, as far as getting ready to take a risky leap and not knowing if it is worth it. Even though the defended and "should" me is behind me and comfortable in that I know her so well, the genuine me that is out in the unknown is starting to look more attractive. There is such a sense of relief I get when in sessions I lose defenses and the real me comes out and my T accepts her and loves her too. It's really a profound feeling, one that is hard to put into words. It's almost a like a relief at recognition. I imagine that if I were able to feel that way all the time, or at least much more often, then I would be much less depressed.
I think the "shoulds" are a terrible thing. That is one of the things about Horney that really resonated with me...the tyranny of the shoulds. It just sets you up to be defended. If you think of a battle metaphor, well-defended has a sense of security about it, but it takes a lot of effort and maintenance to keep it going. Imagine if you had no enemies and no worries about defense? Peace, comfort, freedom to do as you please and be as you please.
Any way, my turning point or cliff right now is related to deciding to give up the defended roles I play (mainly maladaptive dependent versus adaptive interdependent) and take on more independence and confidence in myself. I think this is related to allowing the genuine me to be. My T brought up this conflict in me as a hallmark of termination, actually. That felt a bit scary, but not as scary as it usually does. So there really is an appeal there.
I'm so rambling, because I'm sleep deprived, too. Perhaps you can explore with your T how it feels to be on that cliff and thinking about jumping. Would Dinah fly free? I think so, but it takes a great deal of faith to make that leap. (Kind of like in the first Matrix movie, :)
Take care. I hope this is of some help. I obviously need to think more on it, too. I have to wonder, though, if my most recent depression has served a good purpose, helping me to get to this point? Perhaps there is a bit of depression that goes along with grieving the loss of the defended me that has to be felt before I can be ready to fly. Hmmm.
Take care, Dinah. You are a dear.
gg
Posted by Dinah on August 22, 2004, at 9:34:38
In reply to Re: The real Dinah, posted by gardenergirl on August 22, 2004, at 9:00:02
It sounds encouraging for you, gg. And I'm glad. :) I hope you are able to fly free with a genuineness that feels comfortable and natural to you.
Posted by Pfinstegg on August 22, 2004, at 9:41:46
In reply to Re: The real Dinah » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on August 22, 2004, at 8:51:27
Not annoying at all, Dinah. I was stuck for so long in such a severe depression, with the same painful, horribly negative thoughts just reverberating around and around. My T pointed out to me just last week that anyone who was as depressed as I was is at very high risk for a relapse; even though he's an analyst, and doesn't prescribe any anti-depressants, he wants me to continue taking low doses of Lexapro and Wellbutrin, and to consult my pdoc if the depression starts to get worse-right away. This is in spite of all the intensive work we are doing in therapy, which seems to me like it is really healing the old wounds.
Your father sounds like mine: he was absolutely awful to my son- taunting him, finding every possible fault in him- but, at bottom, I think he was very jealous, too. I never allowed my son to be alone with him. So far, he's doing fine. (my son, I mean). My father died ten years ago without ever growing or changing one bit. He was smart, too- but not psychologically smart at all. It makes me feel so sad to think of all the missed opportunities- but it does take two if things are going to change in a healthy direction.
Posted by Susan47 on August 22, 2004, at 10:24:20
In reply to Re: The real Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on August 22, 2004, at 9:41:46
I can really understand your posts and your struggle, Dinah. I never was eloquent enough to be able to put my selves into the language you've expressed; you did that really well in the lst couple of days and don't beat yourself up for going back and forth and being insecure about what's best. I hope you work it out without hiding your real self, because I think if you go with the fake Dinah, although the world might be able to handle her and she gets what she wants (which is what, by the way, I don't think you ever did say. In your first post you said the fake Dinah gets what she wants. Which is what?) the real Dinah will suffer even more. She needs to come out and be accepted, not just by her T, but real people who're self-sufficient enough that they don't need Dinah to be all fake.
Posted by fallsfall on August 22, 2004, at 11:27:09
In reply to Re: The real Dinah, posted by Susan47 on August 22, 2004, at 10:24:20
I think there is value in being who you really are. Because if you aren't who you are, then who-you-are is lost to the world. I think you are saying that perhaps the world wouldn't be losing much if the real you *were* lost. But, to get slightly spiritual (which I don't usually do..), I think that the real you was put on this earth for a reason and that the real you has things to contribute. So if the real you is lost, then the world loses that contribution. Sort of like endangered species? I guess that sometimes species disappear, and that is part of the evolution of the planet (i.e. dinosaurs). But sometimes they disappear because others on the planet are selfish and push them out (Time magazine has an article on how the populations of "big cats" is declining). Should we defend those species who are endangered - and maintain the diversity in the world? Or should we let "nature take its course" - and count on survival of the fittest to govern how the world evolves?
I don't know the answer to that question. I feel that fighting against the natural order of the world (i.e. fighting to protect a particular species of owl by "crippling" other species' abilities to grow to their potential) is counterproductive to the truth that our world does evolve. But I do have real sadness about the uniqueness that we extinguish by our callousness.
I guess I am worried about losing the real you. ***I*** WANT to know the real you. But I'm not sure that the real you is either Dinah-who-is-as-she-should-be OR Dinah-who-is-as-she-is. I get the feeling that they are both defenses. I know that you adamantly oppose integrating those parts of you. But I like *both* of them enough to wish that they could come to some agreement - so there would be less conflict inside you.
I guess that, for me, the benefit of you being genuine would be that the world would be blessed by your *youness*. I am compelled to save this particular uniqueness in this world - I just think that the world will be missing something if *you* is lost.
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 22, 2004, at 13:04:30
In reply to What is the point of being genuine?, posted by Dinah on August 21, 2004, at 10:34:18
> So what is the benefit in being genuine? If other people like me better fake and superficial, and it hurts less being fake and superficial, does being genuine serve any purpose whatsoever? Does the real me have any value at all?
I am going to go into mental rambling mode. I hope the walk through my gardens is a pleasant one.
The ancient Greeks used to present plays wherein the actors wore masks with exaggerated facial expressions (you sometimes still see depictions of those, the happy and sad faces, at live theaters). Those masks were called persona, and from that, we developed these many centuries later, the concept of personality.
We all have persona. It's expected of us. What are manners, other than aspects of a socially determined persona?
I'd also hazard a guess that each of us has multiple other persona (I think the plural is the same word, but it might be personnae). You wear a daddy persona, or a husband persona, a professional persona, a drunk-in-a-bar persona.....every person in your world gets a different one.
Each persona confers benefits, but it also comes at a price. The magnitude of the benefit or cost is actually denominated in what I call "authenticity units". How much effort does it take to create and maintain the persona, versus how much the persona succeeds in getting your needs met. The authentic you is stretched just how far? to maintain that image, and to get exactly which needs? of the authentic you satisfied.
Sometimes we suppress awareness of some of the costs, because we wish to emphasize a particular benefit. Is that good or bad? Only you can say. It's not black and white, and never was, because there is no persona that is purely beneficial, and without cost....just as there is no persona that is purely adverse, and without benefit.
An example might be that stereotypical Mars/Venus-in-marriage thingie. He values her so long as she keeps the house clean, works full-time, has dinner ready, and puts out when he feels like it. She values the social position, additional financial security, commitment, and stability while raising a family. No one can say, other than the parties involved, whether the effort to maintain the persona is sustainable, given the return on the investment. Some people don't even want to think about it. They don't want to know.
Dinah, I see you asking such a question. Is the authenticity cost of maintaining your present situation greater than the cost you would assume by dropping that persona, and becoming more authentic? That's what I'm "hearing" you ask.
I'm sure everyone has a superficial persona. The one that does all the "small-talk" that we do every day. Look at the language itself. *Small*-talk goes with superficial. It's easier, certainly, but can it ever be satisfying? I suspect your question would not even arise, but for the fact that you know the answer already. You're not satisfied.
You question the transition, from old persona to new, and understandably so. The terms of your own questioning, though, seem to be external. What will the effect be on others, if you become more authentic, or on your relationship with those others, if you become the real one? But also, what will be the effect on you?
From experience, I've found that when I become more authentic, life becomes very much simpler. I don't have to interpret myself in terms of the multiple personnae (that looks right, so I guess the plural *is* personnae). Along with that comes a loss of superficial people. The people who only valued me when I "did their bidding", via adoption of the "approved" persona, fall away. I no longer meet their needs. That can be good, that can be bad. If you want certain people to remain in your world, you must decide if you are willing to pay the price, in "authenticity units", but you'll start to do so overtly. You'll see the price clearly. That's what a shift towards genuine gives you.
You already do that, Dinah. Your dear friends are the ones that let you wear the most comfortable personnae.
The types of relationships I now have with people are different than before. My friends are those who meet this definition of friendship, "they still like me, even after they've gotten to know me well." Those friends do meet my needs. I get more benefit than I pay, that's for certain. I don't have to guess any more why someone might like me. And, if they don't, it's their loss, not mine. I become less dependent. Not lonely, but valuing solitude. And welcoming, when those dear people come back.
Yes, I see finding "the genuine self" to be an invaluable goal. The "genuine you" still carries personnae. That won't change. But they'll fit better. They won't chafe so. They'll be more comfortable. And they'll allow you to love yourself, just as you are. Not conditionally, through playing a role, but unconditionally, just for being you. As Mastercard says, "Priceless."
I think I'll end the garden tour, here.
Hugs, Di.
Lar
Posted by Susan47 on August 22, 2004, at 16:25:35
In reply to Re: The real Dinah, posted by fallsfall on August 22, 2004, at 11:27:09
> I think there is value in being who you really are. Because if you aren't who you are, then who-you-are is lost to the world. I think you are saying that perhaps the world wouldn't be losing much if the real you *were* lost. But, to get slightly spiritual (which I don't usually do..), I think that the real you was put on this earth for a reason and that the real you has things to contribute. So if the real you is lost, then the world loses that contribution. Sort of like endangered species? I guess that sometimes species disappear, and that is part of the evolution of the planet (i.e. dinosaurs). But sometimes they disappear because others on the planet are selfish and push them out (Time magazine has an article on how the populations of "big cats" is declining). Should we defend those species who are endangered - and maintain the diversity in the world? Or should we let "nature take its course" - and count on survival of the fittest to govern how the world evolves?
The species that are endangered are most often as a result of humanity's activities, I believe. Could be wrong. But if I'm right, then don't we have a responsibility to pick up the pieces? Trouble then is, how far back do you go and what action can you take? And will your counter-actions mess things up even further?
>
> I don't know the answer to that question. I feel that fighting against the natural order of the world (i.e. fighting to protect a particular species of owl by "crippling" other species' abilities to grow to their potential) is counterproductive to the truth that our world does evolve. But I do have real sadness about the uniqueness that we extinguish by our callousness.I'm thinking that we're part of the natural world and our brains stimulate themselves to do certain things in a more radical way than other species so even though I believe we're on a crash course for a bad end, that would be a natural consequence of who we are. Because we're part of the world. We're here. Can we change history and be different? Time machine, anyone?
Posted by Susan47 on August 22, 2004, at 16:33:36
In reply to Re: What is the point of being genuine? » Dinah, posted by Larry Hoover on August 22, 2004, at 13:04:30
I'm sorry for quoting you, you said "Dinah, I see you asking such a question. Is the authenticity cost of maintaining your present situation greater than the cost you would assume by dropping that persona, and becoming more authentic? That's what I'm "hearing" you ask."
I'm not even finished reading your post yet but I wanted to tell you I think you have a very thoughtful interpretation here. I could be wrong.
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 22, 2004, at 16:42:09
In reply to Re: What is the point of being genuine? » Larry Hoover, posted by Susan47 on August 22, 2004, at 16:33:36
> I think you have a very thoughtful interpretation here. I could be wrong.
You're not wrong. <big wink>
Posted by JenStar on August 22, 2004, at 18:34:01
In reply to Everthing I wrote last night is best ignored. :(, posted by Dinah on August 22, 2004, at 8:26:07
Dinah,
I'm sorry you're feeling conflicted! I'm glad you feel better after some sleep (I hope you do, anyway!) and I'm also glad that you posted your questions -- really glad. :)One good thing to see is the overwhelming response to your post! It appears that EVERYONE here feels somewhat the same way -- that we all have a 'fake' or 'public' persona in addition to the 'genuine' one, that we all kind of accept that this is normal, and that we also kind of hate that it has to be so.
Hopefully that is somewhat comforting, in a small way? Knowing that you're not alone in the weird spiralling thought mess of me vs. me?
I often think about the exact questions you asked. I too have the Genuine JenStar and the Visible JenStar. The visible one is sort of a mud-hut thatched-roof patchwork combination of the real me and the social me and the me-I-want-to-be and the me-of-this-moment-trying-something-new-let's-see-how-this-feels.
The more I get to know someone, the more I let out the real JenStar. I disclose bits little by little, and if the person doesn't run away screaming, I feel happy & want to disclose more. Sometimes I'm feeling risky or frisky and I loose a lot of truth all at once, just to see what happens. Of course, the other person is disclosing too...and sometimes I like the 'real them' and sometimes I don't. It's not always a match.
And I think that's why it is kind of scary to show the 'real me' -- that's it, that's the root, there's nothing else in there...and if you don't like it, wow - that's real rejection! I can't mask it by saying "it was just my fake persona I showed you, no big deal that you didn't like her"...it was a judgement about the real me. Scary.
I know what you're saying about the fake person being designed to fit into society. I do that too...and it sounds like we ALL do!
Sometimes I used to feel despair at work because I felt that the 'real' person was becoming too far buried under the lacquer of the 'socially acceptable' person. I didn't LIKE the lacquer (some people do like it...bully for them, right?) and started feeling suffocated. I wasn't confident that I could do as well at work if I let out the real JenStar, esp. after burying lots of her for so long. It would certainly be a shock -- at least -- that I was acting differently...and might not be taken well. Could be seen as signs of insubordination, inability to get along in a team, not playing along with company values, blah, blah.
I sometimes think about this stuff, gloomily and deeply, and then wake up the next day full of bright cheerful resolve and a devil-may-care attitude about the various personae. Screw them all! I think. Let's just enjoy the day! :)
I guess we can't think about this stuff all the time or we'd a)go nuts and b)overanalyse every action, movement, gesture, tone and word we use -- overthink and overplan -- until we go crazy.
But don't you think that maybe the fake Dinah doeesn't hide the real one as much as you want or think she does? I mean, I could be wrong (often am...) but when I look at people I've gotten to know: I'm not usually TOTALLY wrong about my impressions. I always learn more, find the depths, the fears, the funny side, the thoughts, the prejudices...but sometimes their fake self doesn't REALLY hide it as well as they think it does. I'm sure it's that way for me, too: Despite all my talk of the genuine and the social jen, they're probably closer than I know.
Anyway, whichever Dinah posts here -- I like her. Send in the rest of them, too, but I'm willing to bet that they're all smart and cool. :)
All the JenStar(s)
PS - About what your T said about finding the true self: Sometimes when I'm fake I get angry at myself. Why should I have to censor the true self just because I feel weird about a situation? I mean, it's not like I'm psychotic or dangerous or creepy in the 'real me' -- I'm maybe just different from what I think the social norm might be. It wouldn't be BAD to be true to myself -- so why don't I do it more?
When I do it more, I feel great and energized and strong and happy. At those times, I think: Hey! That felt good!
I can't answer the questions about your hubby liking the other Dinah better. But...you DID say that you were feeling esp. depressed lately...are you SURE that isn't getting in the way here - maybe making you feel that when it might not be true? Sometimes when I get depressed I think I'm unlovable or less lovable. It sounds like you kind of do the same. It's wrong of me to presume to make judgements about your relationship (pls forgive!) -- just wanted to say that you're a cool person. Don't let sadness & tiredness blot out your pretty Dinah-ness. :)
> It doesn't even make any sense to me. I was very tired. I think the Provigil that has upped my productivity to almost acceptable levels has also disturbed my sleep pattern.
Posted by JenStar on August 22, 2004, at 18:37:44
In reply to Re: Being genuine » Dinah, posted by AuntieMel on August 21, 2004, at 20:04:51
Mel,
I like this post of yours and the other follow-up you wrote. You put into words very succinctly what I wanted to say!JenStar
Posted by AuntieMel on August 22, 2004, at 19:02:49
In reply to Re: Being genuine » AuntieMel, posted by JenStar on August 22, 2004, at 18:37:44
Posted by henrietta on August 22, 2004, at 19:11:23
In reply to Re: Being genuine » AuntieMel, posted by JenStar on August 22, 2004, at 18:37:44
Taking a break from "Ordinary People" (DVD) to add another, less personal point of view. As a person who was called inauthentic from birth (good old mom), the question of authenticity has been one of the major intellectual and spiritual questions of my life..... but then, that's personal and I said I was going elsewhere, didn't I? (Remember being obsessed by Molier's "Alceste" in high school??)
Dictionary synonmyns: real, true, authentic, not counterfeit or artificial, sincere, frank honest.
I say it don't pay to be authentic. You kin become president of the UUUnited states by being
inauthentic, dishonest and ungenuine. Or you kin try to be honest to yourself and your experience and get trashed by those lovely elephants. Yeah, all and all I say being genuine ain't profitable.
Now back to a theatrical presentation of the consequences in personal, family life of never troubling to be authentic. (Ordinary People, on DVD at your local video store NOW.)
Posted by Susan47 on August 22, 2004, at 19:32:05
In reply to Re: Everthing I wrote last night is best ignored. :( » Dinah, posted by JenStar on August 22, 2004, at 18:34:01
When I read this, "One good thing to see is the overwhelming response to your post! It appears that EVERYONE here feels somewhat the same way -- that we all have a 'fake' or 'public' persona in addition to the 'genuine' one, that we all kind of accept that this is normal, and that we also kind of hate that it has to be so." I was validated in what I've been feeling since I melted down (and am hauling self back up). What a lovely meeting of minds.
Posted by Susan47 on August 22, 2004, at 19:44:12
In reply to Re: Everthing I wrote last night is best ignored. :( » Dinah, posted by JenStar on August 22, 2004, at 18:34:01
You wrote, "Sometimes I'm feeling risky or frisky and I loose a lot of truth all at once, just to see what happens." What happens with me is *always* I take someone aback and suddenly they're behaving differently. Uncomfortably. And what always amazes me when this happens, is that I don't think I've said anything particularly strange. Just true. Truths we all know but don't want to think about. I usually end up saying them. Maybe it's my timing, maybe it's their comfort level with bald statements of fact, but in any case unless the person who so reacted has adjusted behaviour next time we meet, it's usually sayonara I know I can't trust that person again. Oh gosh this happens all the time. Does anyone know what I'm talking about or am I out in space? I can take the truth.
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