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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 32. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 19, 2021, at 23:37:01
So guys, my decision to discontinue Trazodone and Venlafaxine and replace it with 5-HTP seems to have been a good one. I have pretty decent mood. People comment on my good condition. I tried this without 5-HTP in the past and failed very early on.
I didn't buy all this talk that it is not effective. People have interests other than our wellness.
It has been about 10 days completely off of ADs and on 5-HTP.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 20, 2021, at 0:07:22
In reply to 5-HTP instead of ADs. Good mood, posted by Lamdage22 on July 19, 2021, at 23:37:01
And sometimes when they want the best for us, they still say supplements are garbage because it is simply fashionable among health workers.
Posted by rjlockhart37 on July 20, 2021, at 13:49:09
In reply to 5-HTP instead of ADs. Good mood, posted by Lamdage22 on July 19, 2021, at 23:37:01
5-htp is converted to serotonin, when i took it when i was in high school, i had depression bad bad in high school, 5-htp did elevate my mood, but i had to take it again during the day. It's ... not as potent as an antidepressant but still it provides increase in serotonin levels. It's just if you taking an SSRI it blocks reptake centers and keeps it at a stable bay. I didnt have any luxury of being on an antidepressant besides wellbutrin. Start taking it at moderate doses, it should help. When i took it i had to take more of it during the day. I'm glad your feeling better on 5-htp
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 20, 2021, at 13:54:11
In reply to Re: 5-HTP instead of ADs. Good mood, posted by rjlockhart37 on July 20, 2021, at 13:49:09
Yeah its not working like magic at all. But it doesnt have to. Healthy people are not ecstatic all the time either. Euthymia is more sustainable than any mind blowing state of mind. And safer.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 20, 2021, at 22:03:51
In reply to Re: 5-HTP instead of ADs. Good mood, posted by Lamdage22 on July 20, 2021, at 13:54:11
My dose is about 30-35 mg a day divided in two doses. One with breakfast and one at 2-3 pm. Tried more but then it doesnt seem beneficial anymore. Too aggressive. I want to create a natural Serotonin level and not flood my body with excessive Serotonin.
I have this theory that I was depressed in order to not be too aggressive. Almost every time something successfully treats my depression, Im also more aggressive.
It may have been a defense mechanism. When you got no chance, its not good to be aggressive. Itll just get you in trouble. So I imploded with depression. Now I can afford reasonable aggression.
Being a wimp is not helpful in this world.
Posted by Christ_empowered on July 22, 2021, at 9:07:43
In reply to Re: 5-HTP instead of ADs. Good mood, posted by Lamdage22 on July 20, 2021, at 22:03:51
many (most?) antidepressants can cause an increase in energy levels, sometimes aggression, before whatever the "therapeutic effect" really is takes effect. a shrink tried to tell me about it...1-4 weeks of that stuff before the treatment "takes full effect," blah blah blah...
predictably, that's when one sees a jump in self-harm, suicides, etc. thanks, psychiatry. :-(
I dunno. the data on antidepressants in straight up, uncomplicated depression is not all that impressive. reach out to depressive states in other disorders, more moderate cases of depression, recurrent depressive episodes...ugh. why bother, honestly?
5-HTP was ok for me, except for the stomach issues. now, some companies are offering relatively high doses in time release tablet form. I might try it again, maybe.
glad you're doing better. im not dogmatically opposed to psych drugs or anything, but...generally speaking, the fewer drugs of any sort, the better off an individual will be. I think this is -especially- true of psych drugs, because psych doctors seem to just pile those on, no end in sight. don't get it...
:-)
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 22, 2021, at 10:50:10
In reply to Re: 5-HTP instead of ADs. Good mood, posted by Christ_empowered on July 22, 2021, at 9:07:43
> 5-HTP was ok for me, except for the stomach issues. now, some companies are offering relatively high doses in time release tablet form. I might try it again, maybe.Did you take with food? Immediate or extended release? Dosage? I dont need much to feel good.
> glad you're doing better. im not dogmatically opposed to psych drugs or anything, but...generally speaking, the fewer drugs of any sort, the better off an individual will be. I think this is -especially- true of psych drugs, because psych doctors seem to just pile those on, no end in sight. don't get it...
>
> :-)Thanks. Im not saying psychdrugs shouldnt be produced anymore either. But often times there is another way.
Posted by rjlockhart37 on July 22, 2021, at 22:56:32
In reply to Re: 5-HTP instead of ADs. Good mood, posted by Lamdage22 on July 22, 2021, at 10:50:10
5-htp still does supply serotonin, psych SSRI's increase it syntheticly, 5-htp is natural. But still serotonin depletion in depression, when i took 5-htp i had to take it couple times a day because the serotonin would disappear. It get absorbed back up uptake, frequent dosing for me i had to do.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 23, 2021, at 0:32:43
In reply to Re: 5-HTP instead of ADs. Good mood, posted by rjlockhart37 on July 22, 2021, at 22:56:32
It is more natural. You can feel it, too. Less numbing and it still makes days more bright in terms of mood.
Posted by Christ_empowered on July 23, 2021, at 14:51:25
In reply to Re: 5-HTP instead of ADs. Good mood, posted by Lamdage22 on July 22, 2021, at 10:50:10
I think the time release 5-HTP is to be taken with a meal. I don't think I'd try to go crazy high dose -if- I decide to try the time release formulations, its just that I've noticed that the time release products I've seen available tend to be 200mgs per tablet or so. I guess its for all day coverage?
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 24, 2021, at 1:34:50
In reply to Re: 5-HTP instead of ADs. Good mood, posted by Christ_empowered on July 23, 2021, at 14:51:25
As far as I know it is always good to take it with a meal. I would think that the 200mg ER capsules/tablets are to be taken once a day. Because 400mg/day is quite hefty.
Having discontinued Trazodone, I do eat more. That is the big drawback. I immediately lost 15 lbs upon the introduction of Trazodone. Maybe I can reduce the Neuroleptics soon. I dont want to surpass the 100kg border. Because then you are not just chubby but fat.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 24, 2021, at 1:39:00
In reply to Re: 5-HTP instead of ADs. Good mood, posted by Lamdage22 on July 24, 2021, at 1:34:50
Thinking Rybelsus here. But it is so new... So not sure what to expect because the incidence of rarer side effects is not yet known.
Posted by undopaminergic on July 24, 2021, at 7:16:20
In reply to Re: 5-HTP instead of ADs. Good mood, posted by Lamdage22 on July 24, 2021, at 1:34:50
> I dont want to surpass the 100kg border. Because then you are not just chubby but fat.
>It depends on how tall and how muscular you are, but I'm sure you know that, so I assume you mean 100 kg would be "fat" for yourself? My weight peaked at 90 kgs or slightly more, and I didn't even feel "chubby". Now I'm down to below 70 kgs despite clozapine, and I feel "normal" weight-wise.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 24, 2021, at 11:03:37
In reply to Re: 5-HTP instead of ADs. Good mood, posted by undopaminergic on July 24, 2021, at 7:16:20
Im not 100 kg worth of muscle and not 90 either.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 27, 2021, at 3:45:39
In reply to Re: 5-HTP instead of ADs. Good mood, posted by Lamdage22 on July 24, 2021, at 11:03:37
The question is if it is really worth it to take an antidepressant just so I can shed some pounds? Trazodone had an appetite suppressing effect. I bet there is something less invasive out there that could help
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 30, 2021, at 11:32:13
In reply to Re: 5-HTP instead of ADs. Good mood, posted by Lamdage22 on July 27, 2021, at 3:45:39
It is a good thing before sleep but if I take too much during the day, Ill sleep it away!
Posted by undopaminergic on July 30, 2021, at 11:47:12
In reply to 5-HTP more than lowdose makes me REALLY tired, posted by Lamdage22 on July 30, 2021, at 11:32:13
> It is a good thing before sleep but if I take too much during the day, Ill sleep it away!
>Reminds me of my first antidepressant, paroxetine (Seroxat, aka. Paxil). Not sure I'd still react that way to it. It's maybe 20 years ago now. It's sad to think how much of my life depression has taken away. Yet for some people it has lasted even longer.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 30, 2021, at 14:15:18
In reply to Re: 5-HTP more than lowdose makes me REALLY tired, posted by undopaminergic on July 30, 2021, at 11:47:12
I hear you. I really do. Maybe the people who are having a blast all the time are just very insensitive to what is going on around them. Oblivious almost?
Posted by undopaminergic on July 30, 2021, at 15:14:30
In reply to Re: 5-HTP more than lowdose makes me REALLY tired, posted by Lamdage22 on July 30, 2021, at 14:15:18
> I hear you. I really do. Maybe the people who are having a blast all the time are just very insensitive to what is going on around them. Oblivious almost?
>Sure, that is sometimes a factor.
Once, in a state of drug-induced mania, I impulsively took a few grams of memantine, with the intention of inducing brain-damage, thinking I'd suffer less as a consequence. I almost died.
The theory was plausible. The brain can be manipulated for greater happiness. Isn't that what we're trying to do with drugs and supplements?
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 30, 2021, at 15:43:05
In reply to Re: 5-HTP more than lowdose makes me REALLY tired, posted by undopaminergic on July 30, 2021, at 15:14:30
Freud held the opinion that depression is aggression turned against the self.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 31, 2021, at 0:00:44
In reply to Re: 5-HTP more than lowdose makes me REALLY tired, posted by Lamdage22 on July 30, 2021, at 15:43:05
Acting out on that might give you temporary relief, but how about making a positive change in the world? Brain damage doesn't help with that. If everyone who is sensitive enough to sense that some things are wrong here just destroyed themselves enough so they don't anymore, is that a world you wanna live in?
Posted by undopaminergic on August 1, 2021, at 9:39:23
In reply to Re: 5-HTP more than lowdose makes me REALLY tired, posted by Lamdage22 on July 30, 2021, at 15:43:05
> Freud held the opinion that depression is aggression turned against the self.
I can see how that makes sense in some varieties of depression, eg. emotional self-flagellation in the shape of guilt, regret, and rumination.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 1, 2021, at 11:28:16
In reply to Re: 5-HTP more than lowdose makes me REALLY tired, posted by undopaminergic on August 1, 2021, at 9:39:23
That guy was onto something much of the time. Penis envy set aside :) I recently heard that he had great success with some patients. Before that I only heard he made everyone worse.
Posted by SLS on August 1, 2021, at 15:34:27
In reply to Re: 5-HTP more than lowdose makes me REALLY tired, posted by undopaminergic on July 30, 2021, at 11:47:12
Hi, U_D
> It's sad to think how much of my life depression has taken away. Yet for some people it has lasted even longer.
Tell me about it.
Ages 17-61 with a 6-month remission in 1987.
I'm a newborn weighing in at 61 years. That's f_cked up. It has taken me about 3 months to grieve for the loss of my adolescence and adulthood. It was surreal at first.
Right now, I am in the process of tweaking nortriptyline. That damned dosage window. It's real.
- Scott
Posted by undopaminergic on August 2, 2021, at 4:49:57
In reply to Re: 5-HTP more than lowdose makes me REALLY tired, posted by Lamdage22 on August 1, 2021, at 11:28:16
> That guy was onto something much of the time.
Yes. I used to think his theory was "over-sexed" and that in particular he was too big on the Oedipus complex. I guess I still somewhat believe especially the latter, but the more I learn, the more it seems there is something to it (I don't recally why).
> Penis envy set aside :)
I think unconscious penis envy is common.
> I recently heard that he had great success with some patients. Before that I only heard he made everyone worse.
>There are many people, perhaps behaviourists in particular, who are more or less anti-Freudian, but it appears most people who had psychoanalysis have a positive opinion about it.
-undopaminergic
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