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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 72. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Andy Behrman on May 29, 2009, at 4:24:52
Just watch this 60 second video:
Posted by greywolf on May 29, 2009, at 4:36:39
In reply to Are the drugs that we're taking killing us?, posted by Andy Behrman on May 29, 2009, at 4:24:52
I wouldn't still be here without these drugs.
Greywolf
Posted by SLS on May 29, 2009, at 5:12:17
In reply to Are the drugs that we're taking killing us?, posted by Andy Behrman on May 29, 2009, at 4:24:52
> Just watch this 60 second video:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VzMZX4nBz8
One should be just as cautious when evaluating the accuracy or varacity of anti-drug portrayals as he is with pro-drug portrayals.I have been taking Abilify for a number of years. The only side effect I can report is weight gain. I did experience what appeared to be mild akathisia during the first week of treatment, though.
Are these drugs killing us? Life is a fatal condition. I don't think most of the antidepressants will accelerate that process. I have seen some studies performed in fruit flies that report genotoxicity with a few of the tricyclics. However, there is very little data to support the conclusion that this indicates a rise in cancer rates for humans. A single study did report an increase in cases of breast cancer in Canada with the use of antidepressants, but it was impossible to isolate which drugs might have been involved, if the study was accurate at all.
At this point, it appears that none of the standard antidepressant drugs used for 20-40 years have produced an observable increase in the rate of fatality. At the very least, such a thing has not been obvious.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on May 29, 2009, at 5:18:50
In reply to Re: Are the drugs that we're taking killing us? » Andy Behrman, posted by SLS on May 29, 2009, at 5:12:17
Cancer drugs can kill.
Lot's of drugs produce adverse effects worse and at a higher rate than those usually seen with antidepressants. Like many other drugs, some people will have a severe idiosyncratic reaction to an antidepressant. Some people die of anaphylaxis due to penicillin or aspirin. Tylenol can irreversibly damage the liver at relatively low dosages. So the question becomes, what risk is one willing to take when trying a particular drug for depression, an illness with a high rate of morbidity and suicide? I don't care if you or anyone else thinks these drugs are dangerous. I do care that anyone would so quickly want to take them away from me.
Thanks for the warning, though.
- Scott
Posted by Andy Behrman on May 29, 2009, at 5:20:12
In reply to Re: Are the drugs that we're taking killing us? » Andy Behrman, posted by SLS on May 29, 2009, at 5:12:17
When the side effects of Abilify include coma and death, but more importantly, Bristol Myers Squibb slants papers written by doctors which obscure side effects, there's a huge problem.
Posted by SLS on May 29, 2009, at 5:52:44
In reply to Re: Are the drugs that we're taking killing us?, posted by Andy Behrman on May 29, 2009, at 5:20:12
> When the side effects of Abilify include coma and death, but more importantly, Bristol Myers Squibb slants papers written by doctors which obscure side effects, there's a huge problem.
Like I said, one must scrutinize the promulgations of all "sides". I have been involved in a partial hospitalization program with a patient load of 150 at any one time. I have NEVER seen coma or death. I am skeptical of the claims that these are truly problems with the drug. These may have been treatment-emergent events that must be reported to the FDA that are unrelated. In other words, a certain percentage of people were going to have these things happen regardless of treatment. That is the meaning of "treatment-emergent". It does not establish cause and effect. It is helpful to know how to interpret package labeling and PDR monographs.
- Scott
Posted by Phil on May 29, 2009, at 8:26:43
In reply to Re: Are the drugs that we're taking killing us?, posted by Andy Behrman on May 29, 2009, at 5:20:12
I've been taking meds for 25 years and I have no physical problems from it. Many of these meds were at max dose or above.
I'm still healthy except a bizarre foot long growth on the top of my head.
Posted by Zyprexa on May 29, 2009, at 8:57:28
In reply to Are the drugs that we're taking killing us?, posted by Andy Behrman on May 29, 2009, at 4:24:52
I agree, Abilify was an awfull drug. It lost me my job, my sanity(for a peroid of time) and sleep. I think I was even sweating from it and the low blood sugars that made me eat and eat. I was down right psychotic on it. I don't recomend abilify. Atleast it didn't kill me even though I wanted to do it my self.
I've been off abilify for 2 years now and only getting back my old self.
Abilify was deffinitly the worst AP I ever took. With the exception of one other I took at the hospital with gave me NMS, constant uncontrolable swalowing.
Posted by Relapse on May 29, 2009, at 10:10:13
In reply to Are the drugs that we're taking killing us?, posted by Andy Behrman on May 29, 2009, at 4:24:52
I will take my chances on the drugs and there various sides. I just hate the side effects I get with untreated severe anxiety/depression, lie face down in a pool of sweat then die.
Dave
Posted by Phillipa on May 29, 2009, at 11:02:22
In reply to Re: Are the drugs that we're taking killing us?, posted by Relapse on May 29, 2009, at 10:10:13
I think I better not watch the video. Phillipa
Posted by 10derHeart on May 29, 2009, at 12:24:04
In reply to Re: Are the drugs that we're taking killing us? » Andy Behrman, posted by Phil on May 29, 2009, at 8:26:43
No worries, Phil.
It's called 'hair.'
Lots of people have it.
Posted by Phil on May 29, 2009, at 14:10:12
In reply to Re: Are the drugs that we're taking killing us? » Phil, posted by 10derHeart on May 29, 2009, at 12:24:04
Oh...thanks. I've got to stop driving to work with my head out the window.
Posted by 10derHeart on May 29, 2009, at 14:38:33
In reply to Re: Are the drugs that we're taking killing us? » 10derHeart, posted by Phil on May 29, 2009, at 14:10:12
Posted by bulldog2 on May 29, 2009, at 15:16:39
In reply to Are the drugs that we're taking killing us?, posted by Andy Behrman on May 29, 2009, at 4:24:52
> Just watch this 60 second video:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VzMZX4nBz8Depression also kills us..So take your choice..
Posted by SLS on May 29, 2009, at 15:26:03
In reply to Re: Are the drugs that we're taking killing us?, posted by bulldog2 on May 29, 2009, at 15:16:39
> > Just watch this 60 second video:
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VzMZX4nBz8
>
> Depression also kills us..So take your choice..
I would argue that we are already dead.
- Scott
Posted by Phil on May 29, 2009, at 15:54:34
In reply to Re: Are the drugs that we're taking killing us?, posted by SLS on May 29, 2009, at 15:26:03
I heard that, Scott.
Posted by ricker on May 29, 2009, at 16:37:39
In reply to Are the drugs that we're taking killing us?, posted by Andy Behrman on May 29, 2009, at 4:24:52
I haven't read the other posts so this may have been mentioned;
Excessive eating, speeding, drinking and many more poor lifestyle habits will bring your life to a sudden stop, much sooner than drugs used in a responsible manner.Rick
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 29, 2009, at 16:52:16
In reply to Are the drugs that we're taking killing us?, posted by Andy Behrman on May 29, 2009, at 4:24:52
I've got a problem when somebody uses selective editing to exaggerate a warning attributable to a class of drugs.
From the Abilify monograph:
" Hyperglycemia, in some cases associated with ketoacidosis, coma, or death, has been reported in patients treated with atypical antipsychotics including ABILIFY. Patients with diabetes should be monitored for worsening of glucose control; those with risk factors for diabetes should undergo baseline and periodic fasting blood glucose testing. Patients who develop symptoms of hyperglycemia should also undergo fasting blood glucose testing. There have been few reports of hyperglycemia with ABILIFY."By no means am I minizing the severity of such adverse events as coma or death, but it behooves anyone who takes a med to understand the risks associated with taking it, and in partnership with the prescribing doctor, to monitor those risks. All choices we make have risks and benefits, including doing nothing. You do your best to predict the risks and benefits, but neither can be known with certainty ahead of the decision to medicate, or the experience arising therefrom.
Lar
Posted by garnet71 on May 29, 2009, at 17:10:59
In reply to Are the drugs that we're taking killing us?, posted by Andy Behrman on May 29, 2009, at 4:24:52
I don't feel like watching the video, but for the discussion, I'd say doctors are more likely to kill us than the drugs. Psychotropic treatments need to be managed effectively, and that's not happening as much as it should be, and sometimes hardly at all. Our policies and health care system contribute to deaths as well. I think it's a lot more complex than saying drugs cause death. They do sometimes, but so does food (i.e.: peanuts can kill someone with a peanut allergy) and lots of other things....Handguns kill too, but a human being has to be operating it.
Doctors need to be more intensive with patients, imo. I've been prescribed many meds, and never was warned of anything with the exception of addiction with benzos. Oh-there was one-one doctor who I tried once and never returned to said simply "call me if you get a rash", but that's the most I've heard about adverse effets from a doctor regarding psychotropics. He didn't tell me you could become severely ill from and even die from the reaction that causes that rash-I looked it up on the internet, but refused to take the drug with that kind of management.
2 cents
Posted by Andy Behrman on May 29, 2009, at 17:33:04
In reply to Re: Are the drugs that we're taking killing us? » Andy Behrman, posted by ricker on May 29, 2009, at 16:37:39
I'm glad that this video has sparked debate - - it's healthy and it's necessary!
We have all suffered from side effects of drugs that have been prescribed for us by our doctors who we trust.
However, Abilify, in my opinion, has caused me more damage and put my life at risk, more so than any other of the 38 drugs that I have taken. And my own doctor, Dr. Mark Frye, not at the Mayo Clinic, was aware of the trouble it was causing me. However, he was the medical consultant to Bristol Myers Squibb for Abilify.
Not to mention, Bristol-Myers Squibb, has clearly acted unethically since Abilify has been on the market (Note: They marketed this drug for kids before it was approved by the FDA for kids) and they have been extremely clever in "slanting" studies on the side effects of Abilify (namely akathasia).
Which is why, I think that a video like this, is important to put out there and why it's out there and causing so much discussion, not just on the internet but in print and soon the issue of Abilify and side effects will make even larger headlines than it made being on the cover of the Wall Street Journal two weeks ago.
This is a wake up call to companies like Bristol Myers Squibb.
Again, the video link is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VzMZX4nBz8
I urge you to pass this around to people whom you care about!
Posted by greywolf on May 29, 2009, at 17:40:47
In reply to Re: Are the drugs that we're taking killing us?, posted by garnet71 on May 29, 2009, at 17:10:59
> I don't feel like watching the video, but for the discussion, I'd say doctors are more likely to kill us than the drugs. Psychotropic treatments need to be managed effectively, and that's not happening as much as it should be, and sometimes hardly at all. Our policies and health care system contribute to deaths as well. I think it's a lot more complex than saying drugs cause death. They do sometimes, but so does food (i.e.: peanuts can kill someone with a peanut allergy) and lots of other things....Handguns kill too, but a human being has to be operating it.
>
> Doctors need to be more intensive with patients, imo. I've been prescribed many meds, and never was warned of anything with the exception of addiction with benzos. Oh-there was one-one doctor who I tried once and never returned to said simply "call me if you get a rash", but that's the most I've heard about adverse effets from a doctor regarding psychotropics. He didn't tell me you could become severely ill from and even die from the reaction that causes that rash-I looked it up on the internet, but refused to take the drug with that kind of management.
>
> 2 centsI'm not sure that you can generalize from that experience. At every single monthly visit, my psychiatrist discusses the extent of my compliance (he wants to know off the top of my head what and when I'm taking meds to see if it is consistent with his directions), quizzes me regarding side effects, reminds me of the Parnate dietary restrictions and interactions, even asks what the pharmacy is charging me for my prescriptions. No refill prescriptions allowed--he goes through each med and what I need at every visit.
Every two months or so, we go over my blood work and I answer about 50 lifestyle questions related to my VNS. He then discusses the progress of my CBT. Then, my GP and my CBT therapist get summary reports concerning how I'm doing.
He's about as thorough as they come. I have to imagine that there are a lot of other psychiatrists out there who take things equally seriously.
Greywolf
Posted by SLS on May 29, 2009, at 17:57:02
In reply to Re: Are the drugs that we're taking killing us?, posted by greywolf on May 29, 2009, at 17:40:47
> He's about as thorough as they come. I have to imagine that there are a lot of other psychiatrists out there who take things equally seriously.
Yeah. Mine is pretty good, too.I think you struck a healthy chord here. There are good ones as there are bad ones. This is true of doctors, nurses, and car salesmen.
It gets old.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on May 29, 2009, at 18:07:05
In reply to Re: Are the drugs that we're taking killing us?, posted by Andy Behrman on May 29, 2009, at 17:33:04
> Again, the video link is:
>>
> I urge you to pass this around to people whom you care about!
I would not send this to anyone, especially to people whom I care about!I believe it to be dysinformation.
I am sorry that you had a bad experience with Abilify.
You haven't mentioned just what that bad experience was. So... What was it?
- Scott
Posted by bulldog2 on May 29, 2009, at 18:24:30
In reply to Are the drugs that we're taking killing us?, posted by Andy Behrman on May 29, 2009, at 4:24:52
> Just watch this 60 second video:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VzMZX4nBz8I find it amazing that people are shocked that pschotropic drugs have side effects. Do you know how many people die from tylenol overdoses that destroy the liver or thousands who die from advil and bleeding ulcers? Yet most of us continue to take these drugs. So what is unique about psych drugs that we attack them because they have se. Our physicians are trained in allopathic medicine and primary use meds to treat disease. Most of them are potentially dangerous and have certain sides.
Posted by garnet71 on May 29, 2009, at 19:20:35
In reply to Re: Are the drugs that we're taking killing us?, posted by greywolf on May 29, 2009, at 17:40:47
Obviously, and I thought it was inferred from my statement, only the doctors that are not intensive, or less intensive, need to be more thorough.
Sounds like you are lucky to have a good one.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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