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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 94 to 118 of 133. Go back in thread:
Posted by Declan on February 6, 2007, at 12:56:12
In reply to Re: Quintal, posted by dbc on February 6, 2007, at 4:11:05
I have not read this thread, but it seems like others, including (of course) ones about benzos. It is possible to have mixed feelings about meds.
I think benzos are (relatively) safe (I have such low standards), and the idea that they shrink your brain is cool with me too.
How's that?
Posted by Squiggles on February 6, 2007, at 12:56:19
In reply to Re: Just a question, posted by bassman on February 6, 2007, at 8:39:38
I'm searching for the posts that describe
your story and bassman's... sorry, i'm
overwhelmed with the multitude...I see you are interested in mind-altering
substances. I didn't think there were
any hippies left. You must be either very
young or very old. :-) One thing about
these plants-- they are very time-consuming.
And wherever they take you, there you are,
and sometimes remain.Squiggles
Posted by dbc on February 6, 2007, at 13:14:27
In reply to Re: Just a question, posted by bassman on February 6, 2007, at 10:22:27
> The thing you call "INTER-DOSE WITHDRAWAL" is well-known-so much so that there is a joke that if you want to know what time it is, ask someone who is taking Xanax.
>Hahaha you're correct and this is true. This is why whenever i start titillating down a dose even if its knocking 1mg off my dose i switch dosing times and mess up my internal benzo circadian clock. A little discomfort seems to go a long way as far as knocking off entire mgs of xanax in less than a week.
Posted by dbc on February 6, 2007, at 13:16:38
In reply to Please be civil » dbc, posted by gardenergirl on February 6, 2007, at 11:58:11
Sorry, this nasty flu i have is making me grumpy. Im usually more polite i swear :)
Posted by gardenergirl on February 6, 2007, at 13:44:08
In reply to Re: Please be civil ) gardenergirl, posted by dbc on February 6, 2007, at 13:16:38
And I'm sorry about your flu. Hope you're feeling well soon.
namasté
deputy gg
Posted by ed_uk on February 6, 2007, at 15:38:15
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks!, posted by bassman on February 4, 2007, at 15:19:28
Hi Bassman,
>I've been reading her site for years.
Just to clarify, benzo.org.uk is NOT Dr. Ashton's site!!!! She would disagree with many of the things written on that site. Dr. Ashton provided the benzo withdrawal manual, she doesn't own or control the rest of the website.
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on February 6, 2007, at 15:45:50
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks!, posted by Squiggles on February 4, 2007, at 19:45:21
Hi Squiggles
Clonazepam is available in the UK under the brand name Rivotril. Traditionally, it has been used to treat epilepsy, although tolerance frequently occurs, substantially limiting its usefulness.
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on February 6, 2007, at 15:47:31
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks! » Quintal, posted by Phillipa on February 4, 2007, at 18:54:15
Hi PJ :)
Despite taking Valium, you are still extremely anxious. Do you not think that you have developed tolerance?
Love
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on February 6, 2007, at 15:52:33
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks!, posted by dbc on February 4, 2007, at 20:47:07
Hi DBC
>Also benzo.uk.org is an anti benzo site
Indeed it is, but it is not Heather Ashton's site. There are many things written there that she would disagree with.
>It says the titration period for 2mg of klonopin is 12 months! I mean really...seriously...thats absurd.
*Some* people would need 12 months. Her taper schedules are intended for people who have had particular difficulty withdrawing, not for everyone. If you read the Aston manual she provides a lot of useful information.
Regards
ed
Posted by Squiggles on February 6, 2007, at 16:02:59
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks! » dbc, posted by ed_uk on February 6, 2007, at 15:52:33
I've seen articles on clonazepam being
peculiarly difficult to withdraw from.
Anyway, to settle the matter, a statistical
comparison study with other benzos would
be helpful.According to my own experience, I believe
that this drug was made specifically for
convulsions (in searching its origin, i
recall it was made in Brazil) -- by whom
I don't know; but Roche marketed it first.I bet it has a really interesting history.
Squiggles
Posted by Squiggles on February 6, 2007, at 16:16:28
In reply to Re: Just a question, posted by bassman on February 6, 2007, at 8:39:38
bassman,
i can't find the post that describes your
history -- the search on Dr. Bob's yields
too many. Would care to post it, or send
it to me personally?Squiggles
Posted by dbc on February 6, 2007, at 16:17:37
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks!, posted by Squiggles on February 6, 2007, at 16:02:59
The short acting benzos (xanax in particular) are always cited as being the hardest to withdraw from and switching to a longer half life benzo is usually reccomended.
My experiance is the opposite and i can drop xanax dosage levels quick in comparison to klonopin or even ativan.
But as always empirical evidence > ancedotal.
Posted by Squiggles on February 6, 2007, at 16:29:21
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks! » Squiggles, posted by ed_uk on February 6, 2007, at 15:45:50
> Hi Squiggles
>
> Clonazepam is available in the UK under the brand name Rivotril. Traditionally, it has been used to treat epilepsy, although tolerance frequently occurs, substantially limiting its usefulness.
>
> EdOK - take a look at Wikipedia which has an article on clonazepam in many languages, and a relative one on myoclonus -- which is what an outside dr. told me i had when i complained of seizures in withdrawal.
What is interesting about this drug is that it
is a *derivative* of the benzo class-- that must mean its chemical structure is different. Also,
listen up PEOPLE WITH COGNITIVE PROBLEMS on clonazepam-- it is an *amnesic*-- that means it interferes with memory.Worth a search.
Squiggles
Posted by ed_uk on February 6, 2007, at 16:38:45
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks!, posted by Squiggles on February 6, 2007, at 16:02:59
Hi S
>According to my own experience, I believe
that this drug was made specifically for
convulsionsI wouldn't say it was made for epilepsy as such........it's more a case of marketing. Other benzos such as Valium are powerful anticonvulsants.
Regards
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on February 6, 2007, at 16:40:49
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks!, posted by Squiggles on February 6, 2007, at 16:02:59
Hi S
>I've seen articles on clonazepam being
peculiarly difficult to withdraw from.I suppose the problem for some people is that they've been taking high doses (without even realising it) - given clonazepam's high potency.
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on February 6, 2007, at 16:42:47
In reply to Thanks » dbc, posted by gardenergirl on February 6, 2007, at 13:44:08
I think there's been a LOT of misunderstanding in this thread. Quintal's original post seems to have been misinterpreted, leading to much anger and confusion :(
I hope everyone is ok.
Ed
Posted by Phillipa on February 6, 2007, at 16:45:13
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks!, posted by dbc on February 6, 2007, at 16:17:37
You know a long time ago a pdoc when my thyroid required higher doses of a benzo till regulated and I quickly dropped the xanax when this happened said to me a benzo is a benzo and never told me one lasts longer the another hence I never ever had a problem switching from one to the other it's a lot psychological too at least with me. If I'm tolerant so be it. At least I won't get diabetes or the horrible withdrawal you read about with a lot of the ad's. That's my take on it and I agree a lot with bassman. Love Phlllipa
Posted by notfred on February 6, 2007, at 17:25:46
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks! A lot of rocks! » ed_uk, posted by Squiggles on February 6, 2007, at 16:29:21
"Also, listen up PEOPLE WITH COGNITIVE PROBLEMS on clonazepam-- it is an *amnesic*-- that means it interferes with memory."
All benzos can interfere with memory, this is not unique to clon.
Posted by dbc on February 6, 2007, at 17:36:16
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks! A lot of rocks!, posted by notfred on February 6, 2007, at 17:25:46
> All benzos can interfere with memory, this is not unique to clon.
Uh yeah, every last benzo is capable of causing your brain to stop encoding short term memories. Xanax is famous for this especially with recreational users who drink with it.
Posted by Squiggles on February 6, 2007, at 17:47:20
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks! A lot of rocks!, posted by dbc on February 6, 2007, at 17:36:16
> > All benzos can interfere with memory, this is not unique to clon.
>
> Uh yeah, every last benzo is capable of causing your brain to stop encoding short term memories. Xanax is famous for this especially with recreational users who drink with it.Wikipedia (which I grant is not the be-all of
authoritative medical literature) says that
clonazepam has a stronger "amnesic" effect
than other benzos. I have not made a study
of all the other benzos, but I do recall some
people here saying that clonazepam affects their
memory or makes their thinking fuzzy.Squiggles
Posted by notfred on February 6, 2007, at 17:58:04
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks! A lot of rocks!, posted by Squiggles on February 6, 2007, at 17:47:20
> Wikipedia (which I grant is not the be-all of
> authoritative medical literature) says that
> clonazepam has a stronger "amnesic" effect
> than other benzos. I have not made a study
> of all the other benzos, but I do recall some
> people here saying that clonazepam affects their
> memory or makes their thinking fuzzy.
>
> Squigglesrohypnol and halcion I have found to be really bad for me WRT memory. halcion caused retrograde amnesia; rohypnol is well know as a date rape drug
and otherwise used in some countries as a pre med for some procedures so people do not remember them.I think it is not just benzos but effects on GABA that account for the memory deficits; there are other classes of meds that effect GABA. ex.
baclofen and AED's.
Posted by bassman on February 6, 2007, at 18:42:59
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks! » bassman, posted by ed_uk on February 6, 2007, at 15:38:15
Aaaah reason arrives in the form of uk ed. Thanks you; that explains lot. You always add a lot to discussions, even pie-throwing contests like this one. :>}
I hope things have been going well for you. I still take Xanax. :>}
Posted by bassman on February 6, 2007, at 18:46:49
In reply to Re: Just a question, posted by Squiggles on February 6, 2007, at 16:16:28
Sorry for the confusion which I probably created. My "story" was in the e-mail in this thread-I was talking about Quintal's story...which I read, but couldn't find again. I mean, it's right on this page, I just can't find it again.
Posted by bassman on February 6, 2007, at 18:58:00
In reply to It is unfortunate, posted by ed_uk on February 6, 2007, at 16:42:47
You've got that right. I felt pretty attacked, as I tried to say reasonable tactfully... it took years for me to get to the point of , "oh, well, it's meds or hiding under a rock". So someone saying that everyone becomes an addict that takes benzos, when that is a sore spot anyway, wasn't well received by me, at least. I don't think we can be so judgmental of the way others need to treat their illness. And I personally think benzos are lots safer than, say, Effexor, or Zyprexa. That's just my opinion, of course.
As I said, you're a really positive addition to this board in many ways. Thanks.
bassman
Posted by bassman on February 6, 2007, at 19:13:47
In reply to Re: Just a question, posted by bassman on February 6, 2007, at 18:46:49
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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