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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 45. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on March 26, 2006, at 17:00:05
I remember reading that one study which was done showing that high dose of SSRI's dammaged brain cells in a similar manner to serotonin releasers like MDMA. I was wondering if any more studies had been done allong those lines.
That one study basically concluded that more studies should be done before the drugs can be concluded as safe. Why have no other studies been undertaken ?
Linkadge
Posted by Glydin on March 26, 2006, at 18:29:26
In reply to Any more studies done on SSRI/corscrew receptors?, posted by linkadge on March 26, 2006, at 17:00:05
Do you have such strong feelings against other classes of AD's? I'm just curious.
Posted by linkadge on March 26, 2006, at 19:15:11
In reply to Re: Any more studies done on SSRI/corscrew receptors? » linkadge, posted by Glydin on March 26, 2006, at 18:29:26
I am not coming here with biases. I have no reason to categorize a medication. I do a lot of reading, and have come to my conclusions based on the information I have read. I still suffer depression, but am not really willing to risk my long term mental health, just to get relief at the present time.
There was a study done comparing the effects of both SSRI's and MDMA on the post synaptic serotonin receptors. The conscencious was that MDMA, but not SSRI's were capable of inducing morphological changes in post synaptic serotonin receptors, but this belief was not based on any reasearch. This study seemed to suggest that SSRI's were able to do the same.
I was simply wondering if there had been additional studies to try and reclarify or retest this concept.
This particular study was fairly mainstream, ie not don't by an antipsychiatry group.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2000-02/TJU-Jsss-2802100.php
Regards,Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on March 26, 2006, at 19:21:40
In reply to Re: Any more studies done on SSRI/corscrew receptors? » linkadge, posted by Glydin on March 26, 2006, at 18:29:26
Contrary to popular belief, I am not really hear to try and bum people out, I am just looking for answers myself, viable answers.
Linkadge
Posted by med_empowered on March 26, 2006, at 19:24:47
In reply to Re: Any more studies done on SSRI/corscrew receptors? » Glydin, posted by linkadge on March 26, 2006, at 19:21:40
the last one i heard about was the rats study--you know, the one where young mice treated with prozac grew up to be depressed and anxious. Other than that..just some studies showing EPS and stuff.
Posted by linkadge on March 26, 2006, at 19:33:56
In reply to Re: Any more studies done on SSRI/corscrew recepto, posted by med_empowered on March 26, 2006, at 19:24:47
What bothered me the most was that, although the study used high doses of the drugs, the mice developed some of these alterations in as little as 4 days. So could taking lower doses for years produce the same results? I just can't take the pills untill the studies are there to show the contrary.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on March 26, 2006, at 19:36:03
In reply to Re: Any more studies done on SSRI/corscrew recepto, posted by linkadge on March 26, 2006, at 19:33:56
WHen I'm was the SSRI's, it was easier to brush things like this off, well I guess because thats what the drugs do, they inhibit obsession. Even if it is (what I would now consider) healthy obsesson.
Linkadge
Posted by Glydin on March 26, 2006, at 19:51:15
In reply to Re: Any more studies done on SSRI/corscrew receptors? » Glydin, posted by linkadge on March 26, 2006, at 19:21:40
I can understand your need for answers. It was just a question...... because in following your posts, I have noted a particular inquiring into the negative long term effects in the use of SSRI's versus any other class of AD's. I was curious about this. We do have differing viewpoints as to what "studies" really tell, but, I respect your views and realize you need to do what is comfortable for you.
Posted by linkadge on March 26, 2006, at 20:23:18
In reply to Re: Any more studies done on SSRI/corscrew receptors?, posted by Glydin on March 26, 2006, at 19:51:15
Well this is it, although, I wouldn't call it what I feel is "comfortable".
The SSRI's have not been around long enough. Simply put, we lack long term safety data.
It is not guarenteed that what a doctor tells you about a medicaton is correct. Doctors have been incorrect in the past. It wasn't so long ago that fenfluramine was considered a safe weight loss drug.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on March 26, 2006, at 20:30:08
In reply to Re: Any more studies done on SSRI/corscrew receptors? » Glydin, posted by linkadge on March 26, 2006, at 20:23:18
No wonder my anxiety is so bad I'm confused confused confused!!!!!!!!Love Phillipa
Posted by djmmm on March 26, 2006, at 20:45:02
In reply to Re: Any more studies done on SSRI/corscrew receptors? » Glydin, posted by linkadge on March 26, 2006, at 20:23:18
> Well this is it, although, I wouldn't call it what I feel is "comfortable".
>
> The SSRI's have not been around long enough. Simply put, we lack long term safety data.
>
> It is not guarenteed that what a doctor tells you about a medicaton is correct. Doctors have been incorrect in the past. It wasn't so long ago that fenfluramine was considered a safe weight loss drug.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
Here are a couple more negative studies:http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/toxicity-brain-damage.htm
Posted by Glydin on March 26, 2006, at 22:32:43
In reply to Re: Any more studies done on SSRI/corscrew receptors? » Glydin, posted by linkadge on March 26, 2006, at 20:23:18
Even though we differ on how we "see" things, I really do try to be respectful of how you "see" things. I don't feel there is any given back and I would really like get that but I'm thinking I'm not going to. While it's difficult to assess tone in the written word, I feel the tone is hostile.
Posted by SLS on March 27, 2006, at 6:54:56
In reply to Re: Any more studies done on SSRI/corscrew recepto, posted by djmmm on March 26, 2006, at 20:45:02
> > Well this is it, although, I wouldn't call it what I feel is "comfortable".
> >
> > The SSRI's have not been around long enough. Simply put, we lack long term safety data.
> >
> > It is not guarenteed that what a doctor tells you about a medicaton is correct. Doctors have been incorrect in the past. It wasn't so long ago that fenfluramine was considered a safe weight loss drug.
> >
> >
> > Linkadge
> >
> >
>
>
> Here are a couple more negative studies:
>
> http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/toxicity-brain-damage.htmThe problem I see with this site is that it has an agenda. It does not produce a balanced or objective presentation. It is, obviously, a website devoted to the invalidation of antidepressants as a treatment for depression. However, many of the studies it cites seem to be legitimate and conducted with objectivity. The presentation can be very pursuasive, albeit biased. I think the site is a good resource if you are in urgent need of information to nullify the utility of antidepressants.
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on March 27, 2006, at 8:20:21
In reply to Re: Any more studies done on SSRI/corscrew receptors? » linkadge, posted by Glydin on March 26, 2006, at 22:32:43
My tone was not meant to be hostile, it was mean to be assertive.
I respect everybody's view. I don't necessarily agree with people's tendancy to presume the safety of the meds, but that does not mean I don't have respect for them as a person.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on March 27, 2006, at 8:21:55
In reply to Re: Any more studies done on SSRI/corscrew recepto, posted by SLS on March 27, 2006, at 6:54:56
I don't necessarily belive in the intentions of antidperessantfacts.com either. They do link to medline studies which we can process independantly.
Linkadge
Posted by med_empowered on March 27, 2006, at 8:58:23
In reply to Re: Any more studies done on SSRI/corscrew recepto, posted by linkadge on March 27, 2006, at 8:21:55
I think docs in general (and, for some reasons, psychiatrists in particular) tend to ignore the "Precautionary Principle": until something is proven safe (or at least the risks are known), you should minimize exposure. And if you look at all the treatments in psychiatry that came and went (barbiturates, quaaludes, common use of amphetamines) the big problem wasn't the chemicals per se--it was more over-prescribing b/c of "trends" in RXing and more patient selection and poor clinical management. The SSRIs have been used for EVERYTHING, which is one reason we have so many problems--if their use had been more limited, it probably wouldn't have been as problematic.
Posted by Glydin on March 27, 2006, at 9:01:46
In reply to Re: Any more studies done on SSRI/corscrew receptors?, posted by linkadge on March 27, 2006, at 8:20:21
I was out of line when I posted that and I regret it. I apologize Link.
Posted by linkadge on March 27, 2006, at 9:32:08
In reply to Re: Any more studies done on SSRI/corscrew receptors? » linkadge, posted by Glydin on March 27, 2006, at 9:01:46
You have every right to question my intentions.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on March 27, 2006, at 9:46:03
In reply to ADs, posted by med_empowered on March 27, 2006, at 8:58:23
This is the thing. I have taken a difference stance, and that is guilty untill proven innocent.
I don't think that systematic studies have been done on a lot of the problems that are now surfacing, and I am really just wondering why?
We do thousands of studies that seem to show MDMA is capable of dammage to the serotonergic system, yet when one study seems to show the same with SSRI's there is no follow up? That doesn't make sence esp. since SSRI's are swallowed much more commonly then E.
I guess I am just wondering why psychiatry has to wait for problems to happen instead of being proactive?
Linkadge
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 27, 2006, at 11:52:29
In reply to Re: ADs » med_empowered, posted by linkadge on March 27, 2006, at 9:46:03
Maybe doctors who do the studies showing that long term SSRI use isn't too healthy, get death threats from the Big Pharma companies....LOL
Seriously, it wouldn't surprise me.
Maybe there just isn't the funding - I take it that Pharma companies aren't going to specifically fund studies that show that their drugs aren't safe are they?
Posted by linkadge on March 27, 2006, at 15:18:51
In reply to Re: ADs, posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 27, 2006, at 11:52:29
Good point. This is serious buisness for the drug companies. I'm sure they work to couteract all possibilities that might lead to sales decline.
Linkadge
Posted by vainamoinen on March 27, 2006, at 16:44:40
In reply to Any more studies done on SSRI/corscrew receptors?, posted by linkadge on March 26, 2006, at 17:00:05
My experience has been, after being on an SSRI for about 6 years now, that if I decrease the dosage in anything but an excruciatingly slow manner I go into a tailspin of depression.
So in a way it's not unlike methadone or heroin or any other addictive drug.
Now the flip side is that I am convinced that if it were not for antidepressants I would be dead by my own hand a long time ago.
So I'm strung out on prozac. Seems like a small price to pay for the quality of life I enjoy now.
And if I'm fattening the wallets of big pharm so be it. I'm also contributing towards their R&D budgets which may find a cure for cancer, heart disease, or diabetes.
The more cynical view would be that a cure for any of those maladies is not in the best interest of big pharm. But even a treatment of lifelong medication is better than the alternative is it not?
Posted by linkadge on March 27, 2006, at 19:03:20
In reply to Re: Any more studies done on SSRI/corscrew recepto, posted by vainamoinen on March 27, 2006, at 16:44:40
When I came off SSRI's my depression plunged to a level that it had never been before medicating. It stayed that way for a long time untill I felt somewhat like I did before taking the medications.
If I was to decide to medicate again, I would have to be prepared to face those consequences.
Linkadge
Posted by summerflowers on March 28, 2006, at 6:43:15
In reply to Re: Any more studies done on SSRI/corscrew recepto, posted by linkadge on March 27, 2006, at 19:03:20
I used to think SSRIs on their own were as harmless as lollies.But something definatly permanantly changed in me since I went on and off them twice.I dont think their harmless anymore.
Posted by linkadge on March 28, 2006, at 7:59:27
In reply to Re: Any more studies done on SSRI/corscrew recepto, posted by summerflowers on March 28, 2006, at 6:43:15
I find a lot of people are humbled by the first time they withdrawl from an AD for whatever reason.
I think that it is interesting how a lot of people's opinions change during/after withdrawl.
The drug goes from the best thing since sliced bread, to well, a little less than that.
Linkadge
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