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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 169 to 193 of 297. Go back in thread:
Posted by wildcard11 on March 3, 2006, at 8:36:18
In reply to Re: 150mg » linkadge, posted by wildcard11 on March 3, 2006, at 8:27:06
>let me add this~i did take 225, then the next day drop to 150, then the next day take 75 and then none in case that 3 day period could be the difference.
Posted by Chairman_MAO on March 3, 2006, at 9:16:48
In reply to Re:New Idea: phillipa, posted by cecilia on March 3, 2006, at 0:41:34
All advertisements are lies, as none of the conditions that the medications purport to treat exist as the entities that the advertisements claim, i.e. medical conditions witn clearly defined biological etiologies. If any of these conditions were actually biological, it would no longer be psychiatric. The problems are suffering are very real; they just aren't medical diseases. The psychiatric slight-of-hand is necessary to make giving drugs for mental illness compatible with the doctrine of pharmacological calvinism.
Posted by Chairman_MAO on March 3, 2006, at 9:20:59
In reply to Re:Is advertising Meds allowed in the US?, posted by tizza on March 3, 2006, at 1:37:49
Sounds like Oz is the place I want to be, then. You mean there is a trace of scruples left in public policy? Somehow, in the United States, it is OK to directly market drugs to patients yet tell them they must get a permission slip from a doctor in order to take them. We are supposed to have a free market, yet the advertisers are playing a rigged game.
"Babylon system is a vampire, sucking the blood of the sufferers..."
--Bob Marley
Posted by Chairman_MAO on March 3, 2006, at 9:25:09
In reply to Re:Is advertising Meds allowed in the US? » tizza, posted by wildcard11 on March 3, 2006, at 7:56:22
The only AD they won't advertise right off the bat are MAOIs. Those you have to jump through flaming hoops while juggling baby seals to get permission to take. It is easier to get an Rx for d-amphetamine.
Yes, there are potentially life-threatening effects. What does that matter if you feel like killing yourself when you aren't on the medication?The commercials are basically saying in so many words "this drug works just like the first time you took [illlict drug of choice]".
Posted by linkadge on March 3, 2006, at 9:31:44
In reply to Re: 150mg » linkadge, posted by wildcard11 on March 3, 2006, at 8:27:06
I just find that hard to believe. How long before you went onto another antidepressant ? Don't mean to be a dweeb, but I'd just have to see it to believe it.
Effexor is so addicting for some people that they have to start counting the pelets in the 37.5mg capsules.Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on March 3, 2006, at 9:33:02
In reply to oh » wildcard11, posted by wildcard11 on March 3, 2006, at 8:36:18
Thats still very suprising. Not sying its not possable, but just very suprising.
Linkadge
Posted by Chairman_MAO on March 3, 2006, at 9:49:05
In reply to Re: oh » wildcard11, posted by linkadge on March 3, 2006, at 9:33:02
Many people do not get withdrawal symptoms. I feel a lot of it has to do with the perceived psychological need for the medication.
Posted by linkadge on March 3, 2006, at 12:23:12
In reply to Re: oh » linkadge, posted by Chairman_MAO on March 3, 2006, at 9:49:05
Yes, but a lot of people do have withdrawl symptoms. I would like to say that it was all in my mind, but brain the brain zaps were hard to chalk up to mindset.
I bet you that if, during the withdrawl, you gave me a toss up between a real effexor, and a placebo, I'd be able to tell which one you gave me based on which one one actually relieved withdrawl symtpoms.
Linkadge
Posted by Chairman_MAO on March 3, 2006, at 13:54:32
In reply to Re: oh » Chairman_MAO, posted by linkadge on March 3, 2006, at 12:23:12
Oh, I agree with you. I have suffered through that.
The fact remains that experiments show that some morphine addicts given IV injections of saline when begging for morphine promptly nodded out and went to sleep. They had clinically significant opioid withdrawal symptoms before the saline injections.
This was done in the 1920s. You will never see research like this ever again because it is a universal fact among medical ignoramuses that drug addiction/dependence is solely a property of the drug.
Oh, by the way, SSRIs do not induce physical dependence! Hahahhha! Don't you love this "science"?!?
Posted by Chairman_MAO on March 3, 2006, at 14:02:26
In reply to Re: 150mg » wildcard11, posted by linkadge on March 3, 2006, at 9:31:44
d-amphetamine attenuates SSRI/SNRI withdrawal symptoms. Don't ask me why, but 10-30mg will completely ameliorate the brain zaps, etc. Insofar as being therapeutic beyond that, that's a toss up.
Posted by zeugma on March 3, 2006, at 15:23:18
In reply to Re: Yes » zeugma, posted by Chairman_MAO on March 2, 2006, at 23:18:15
It is a weak 5th1a partial agonist with some other properties. It should be labelled as a REM sleep control drug, if anything.
or did I miss your point >>
no, that is my point.
i take it simply to control my REM sleep until the more long acting REM suppressant (nortriptyline) kicks in. if it did not have this property, I would not take it.
-z
Posted by ed_uk on March 3, 2006, at 16:03:56
In reply to Re: The Truth Do SSRI's and SSNRI's Work For Anyon » yxibow, posted by Chairman_MAO on March 1, 2006, at 10:32:38
Chair,
I would definitely rather be on morphine than Zyprexa. The side effects of morphine are less disturbing. I would treat the constipation with a combination of laxatives. Dopamine antagonists do not agree with me.
Ed
Posted by linkadge on March 3, 2006, at 16:12:11
In reply to Re: oh » linkadge, posted by Chairman_MAO on March 3, 2006, at 13:54:32
Wish I could believe your theory.
Sounds to me like you are going through stimulant withdrawl ? :)Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on March 3, 2006, at 16:13:48
In reply to Re: The Truth Do SSRI's and SSNRI's Work For Anyon » Chairman_MAO, posted by ed_uk on March 3, 2006, at 16:03:56
Dopamine antagonists do not agree with dopamine.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on March 3, 2006, at 16:34:24
In reply to Re: Yes » Chairman_MAO, posted by zeugma on March 2, 2006, at 21:59:11
Z,
You've suffered 'brain zaps'?
And on the subject of SSRIs......
For me, SSRIs reduce the number of thoughts coming into my head. They create an almost serene detachment from the reality of my life. They numb the pain of negative emotions. They allow me to ignore thoughts that I don't want to have (OCD etc). They reduce empathy and motivation. Time passes by unnoticed. Things never seem to get done. Everything gets left until the last minute. I dropped out of university.........but at least I'm calm :) Not quite happy, but I do at least feel pleasant. I take 80mg citalopram (Celexa). I do find it 'anxiolytic' - but at a cost.
Kind regards
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on March 3, 2006, at 16:36:35
In reply to Re: oh » Chairman_MAO, posted by linkadge on March 3, 2006, at 16:12:11
APs make me feel dreadful, just awful. I feel good on codeine, pleasant, cheerful, friendly, warm......
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on March 3, 2006, at 16:46:05
In reply to Re: 150mg » wildcard11, posted by linkadge on March 3, 2006, at 9:31:44
Hi Link
I quit Effexor XR 150mg without tapering. I definitely suffered some withdrawal symptoms, but nothing severe. I guess I was lucky :)
Ed
Posted by zeugma on March 3, 2006, at 16:56:32
In reply to Re: Yes » zeugma, posted by ed_uk on March 3, 2006, at 16:34:24
> Z,
>
> You've suffered 'brain zaps'?yes, it's an electrical feeling. When i started getting them (at sleep induction) I thought it was because I was sleeping too close to an electrical outlet, and started sleeping with my head at the foot of the bed. (!) of course this made no difference. and NB i was not on any drugs whatsoever.
>
> And on the subject of SSRIs......
>
> For me, SSRIs reduce the number of thoughts coming into my head. They create an almost serene detachment from the reality of my life. They numb the pain of negative emotions. They allow me to ignore thoughts that I don't want to have (OCD etc). They reduce empathy and motivation. Time passes by unnoticed. Things never seem to get done. Everything gets left until the last minute. I dropped out of university.........but at least I'm calm :) Not quite happy, but I do at least feel pleasant. I take 80mg citalopram (Celexa). I do find it 'anxiolytic' - but at a cost.
>I think that is anxiolysis. TCA's, in my opinion, are less anxiolytic, less numbing, more physical side effects (dry mouth, and cardiac abnormalities- to which tolerance often develops).
-z
> Kind regards
>
> Ed
Posted by ed_uk on March 3, 2006, at 17:52:20
In reply to Re: Yes » ed_uk, posted by zeugma on March 3, 2006, at 16:56:32
Hi Z :)
>yes, it's an electrical feeling. When i started getting them (at sleep induction) I thought it was because I was sleeping too close to an electrical outlet, and started sleeping with my head at the foot of the bed. (!) of course this made no difference. and NB i was not on any drugs whatsoever.
Do you think your brain zaps are related to those experienced during SRI withdrawal?
>I think that is anxiolysis.
Me too. In terms of side effects, SSRIs are more insidious than TCAs (for me).
Ed
Posted by zeugma on March 3, 2006, at 18:07:08
In reply to Re: Yes » zeugma, posted by ed_uk on March 3, 2006, at 17:52:20
> Hi Z :)
>
> >yes, it's an electrical feeling. When i started getting them (at sleep induction) I thought it was because I was sleeping too close to an electrical outlet, and started sleeping with my head at the foot of the bed. (!) of course this made no difference. and NB i was not on any drugs whatsoever.
>
> Do you think your brain zaps are related to those experienced during SRI withdrawal?
>
It could be. I think it's a result of the serotonin and norepinephrine systems being too weak and the cholinergic system overpowering it. When people wothdraw from an SSRI the serotonin system is depleted, and they enter REM prematurely, experiencing those 'zap' sensations from cholinergic hypersensitivity, which results from the sudden aminergic weakness.
> >I think that is anxiolysis.
>
> Me too. In terms of side effects, SSRIs are more insidious than TCAs (for me).
>I agree. The TCA side effects are apparent from the beginning, and usually recede with time.
-z
> Ed
Posted by Jakeman on March 3, 2006, at 19:33:19
In reply to Re: The Truth Do SSRI's and SSNRI's Work For Anyon, posted by linkadge on February 27, 2006, at 15:09:45
Link,
While I don't entirely agree with your argument against SSRI's I thought I'd throw in a historical anecdote. In the mid 19th century a common treatment for depression was a pill which contained mercury. Abraham Lincoln took them for several years until the adverse side effects became too debilitating.
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/linc.html
warm regards, ~Jake
Posted by Jakeman on March 3, 2006, at 20:18:58
In reply to Re: The Truth Do SSRI's and SSNRI's Work For Anyon » yxibow, posted by Chairman_MAO on March 1, 2006, at 10:32:38
Chairman,
I enjoy reading your posts regarding depression and the use of opiods. I tend to agree with the thrust of your arguments. My main question though is how do you obtain these? How do you get a prescription for buprenorphine? From my experience in the US, many doctors are even skittish about prescribing Valium.
warm regards ~Jake
> Why not do a search on medline for opioids in depression, especially buprenorphine? There are plenty of studies documenting the efficacy of psychostimulants for depression, especially in the most debilitating cases (post-stroke, HIV, etc).
>
> Why would it be malpractice to treat depression with an opioid?
Posted by linkadge on March 3, 2006, at 21:17:04
In reply to Re: 150mg » linkadge, posted by ed_uk on March 3, 2006, at 16:46:05
How long was it though, until you went on a new medication ??
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on March 3, 2006, at 21:20:50
In reply to Re: The Truth Do SSRI's and SSNRI's Work For Anyon » linkadge, posted by Jakeman on March 3, 2006, at 19:33:19
Thats common. The current generation marvels at its present, and laughs at its past.
I hope to live long enough to see an altered conscenious on the role of SSRI's in psychiatry.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on March 3, 2006, at 21:23:01
In reply to Re: The Truth Do SSRI's and SSNRI's Work For Anyon » Chairman_MAO, posted by Jakeman on March 3, 2006, at 20:18:58
I havn't taken a SSRI in almost a year now. I still get brain zaps not too unregularly. I usually wake up in a paniced state and have to move my eyes around for a while for it to subside.
Linkadge
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