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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Larry Hoover on January 24, 2005, at 11:41:08
In reply to Re: MAYBE WE SHOULD RETHINK THE BENADRYL GUYS!!! » Larry Hoover, posted by dancingstar on January 24, 2005, at 10:54:15
> Lar,
>
> For purposes of withdrawal, does it appear to be safer if people use either the antihistamine without the SSRI or the SSRI without the antihistamine, or does adding the antihistmine into the mix automatically create a problem, do you think, if they have been previously taking a SSRI or an SNRI...or don't you have a clue or not want to say, also, I'm thinking, a valid answer :-)?It really depends on which drugs you're considering. See below.
> This makes me so mad. When I mentioned that I had been taking Benadryl to get over the E-withdrawl, my poor internist was shocked to hear that it worked, and he hadn't known anything else about it except he was very glad that it helped. He had wanted to give me P, but I wanted no part of the stuff. From what I understand, many if not most are taking a combo of an anithistamine and Prozac at the same time to help them with symptoms, and this could really be a bad idea!~
>
> BebeYour internist may not have heard of Benadryl as a treatment for withdrawal side-effects because it's very likely been discovered quite by accident.
What I see throughout your post is a shifting back and forth between the general and the specific. There are some combinations of antidepressants and antihistamines that are a problem. Others are safe.
It is not okay to just think "I'll take an antihistamine to counteract the side-effects of withdrawal"....the drug to consider is *one* antihistamine, diphenhydramine (Benadryl). You can't just substitute willy-nilly for Benadryl. Based on the data on the tips page, chlorphenhydramine is a possible alternative to Benadryl. The modern non-sedating antihistamines are not acceptable because they require processing in the liver, and most modern antidepressants inhibit liver function.
Prozac works to help with withdrawal because of its very lengthy half-life. It virtually self-tapers in dose. Prozac and Benadryl together are also safe.
Lar
Posted by corafree on January 24, 2005, at 12:02:19
In reply to RE: NEW THREAD - POSITIVE EFFEXOR EXPERIENCE, posted by FaithT on January 24, 2005, at 4:19:29
Yep, Eff-XR is the first AD that has really helped me. I am emotional; sensitive. My prob' = reacting w/ brutal honesty, or separation anxiety.
Anyway, those tendencies have been less on Eff-XR. I take 150mg am and 75mg late afternoon as am a fast metabolizer and use up med very quickly, and haven't much fat on body, so don't store up things well.
My level of anxiety and depression is much better. I wonder sometimes if my dx actually should have been anxiety disorder to begin w/; first became depressed about being so anxious!
Of course, now, 20yrs later, every other AD tried, I am borderline; feel damaged by all those AD trials.
I really have to be aware of regimen; not miss a dose tho', as if do, become anxious, worry, feel inept, and agoraphobic.
In future, would love being drug free again; if opportunity seems plausible (knowing my own limitations); for now am hanging on better than in past. cf
Posted by medhed on January 24, 2005, at 12:20:22
In reply to RE: NEW THREAD - POSITIVE EFFEXOR EXPERIENCE, posted by FaithT on January 24, 2005, at 4:19:29
nope, not positive. i didn't need this board to know i felt poisoned. i do know people who swear by it though, i guess as long as you keep taking it you won't have a problem. some people are good candidates for this drug and that was why i tryed it. it was worth trying, that's why i took it for 8mos...people are different, i just wish my doc knew that. ("you can't be having that side effect, it isn't in the insert!") says she.
Posted by FaithT on January 24, 2005, at 12:56:50
In reply to RE: NEW THREAD - POSITIVE EFFEXOR EXPERIENCE, posted by FaithT on January 24, 2005, at 4:19:29
Thanks everyone~
If you have something postive to say about Effexor, please post it there. I have nothing to gain by doing this, except to try and give another view of this drug, to others that may need some hope.
Cora, I appreciate your post. Thank you.
Best wishes, Faith~
Posted by dancingstar on January 24, 2005, at 13:33:41
In reply to Re: MAYBE WE SHOULD RETHINK THE BENADRYL GUYS!!! » dancingstar, posted by Larry Hoover on January 24, 2005, at 11:41:08
Hey Lar,
Thank you very much for explaining in plain English that it is safe to take the combination of Prozac and Benadryl.
Many people here are taking that combo. Because I don't know the chemical ingredient of the drug, may I ask you if it is also safe to take Prozac with Claritin D, which is also popular on this site?
Thanks again. It is so hard to get straight information, and I really appreciate your help
:-)!
Posted by jubilee on January 24, 2005, at 14:11:19
In reply to Re: MAYBE WE SHOULD RETHINK THE BENADRYL GUYS!!! » dancingstar, posted by Larry Hoover on January 24, 2005, at 11:41:08
5 months ago or more when I first came to this board a dr like person, very sientific, talked about how the withdrawal has a major effect on your hystamines( excuse poor spelling ) levels and many mentioned how their whole bodies iched so I assume thats why the benadryl was brought up.
Well, i came down slow , 5 mths and off of effexor completly for a couple weeks and my nose iches so bad, I cant imagine the whole body, but I discovered that my nose spray would take away the headaches I was getting from the w/d and I now using it on my nose which stops the iching. .
I have been so frustrated with the length of time it takes to get this drug out of your system . Personally the worst part for me has been the angry outbursts and I am still dealing with . a friend came over and prayed for me I have been doing better about the anger and have been able to want to go to bed for 4 nights now. I personally don't know how far out I would go with my anger if I didnt have some xanex.
I had every side affect from effexor but the high blood pressure. I have fought going to bed and to sleep for 4 years now, so for me to say I have wanted and been going to bed early is a miricle. I have had hypermania , agitation and anxiety since I ws first put on effexor . I have destroyed my vision from taking it and I have been having memory problems this last year . I so pray I completely recover from taking this drug and that I dont find I have a major liver problem for it or something . I wonder how many more weeks until I go back to the self controlled person I was 4 years ago. and hoping soon to be able to go off the xanex.
Posted by corafree on January 24, 2005, at 16:10:38
In reply to My ichy nose is driving me nuts, posted by jubilee on January 24, 2005, at 14:11:19
Jubilee - Memory impairment from Effexor-XR ... I have memory impairment, but cannot be sure from Eff-XR, as also benzos can cause it, as well as trazodone which take for sleep, as well as many years on diff' ADs, and also having my head beaten on the floor in 2000. I currently am feeling like I may have ADD or ADHD. I took the test, said 89% chance had it. But, do I want another pill? I am really, really alone and often go w/o contact w/ another person for 3-4 days. I don't dare change anything until I am in a supportive environment. Hope AD studies re: memory/Alzheimer's come to light soon. cf
Posted by eeyorena on January 24, 2005, at 16:27:06
In reply to Re: Benadryl is safe! » corafree, posted by Larry Hoover on January 24, 2005, at 5:56:30
If you take the AD, Parnate, pure Benadryl should be safe according to the Drug Interaction Checker.
The following OTC drugs should NOT be taken with Parnate or they can cause reactions of MAJOR severity.
-Any Benadryl Allergy products (Allergy & Sinus, Benadryl Allergy & Cold, Benadryl Allergy Sinus Headache)
-Claritan-D or Claritan-D 24 hour
-Chlor-Trimeton Allergy Decongestant and Chlor-Trimeton Nasal DecongestantThese over the counter drugs should NOT be combined with the anti-depressant, Parnate.
Posted by eeyorena on January 24, 2005, at 16:30:13
In reply to RE: NEW THREAD - POSITIVE EFFEXOR EXPERIENCE » FaithT, posted by corafree on January 24, 2005, at 12:02:19
cf--
Did your doc ever have you on an MAOI? Just curious.
E-
Posted by dancingstar on January 24, 2005, at 16:44:45
In reply to RE: NEW THREAD IS AT BOTTOM OF THIS PAGE, posted by FaithT on January 24, 2005, at 12:56:50
If someone checks in on a site to see if anyone has had success on Effexor and they see that a lot of people are having problems as a result of having taken it, I think that tells them that they might want to be cautious before they begin to take the drug.
The problem seems to be that the doctors have been telling patients that Effexor is safe. It is widely prescribed. People need a place to find out the truth. It appears to me that many of us are relieved to find out that there are others that have had similar experiences to our own, and that it didn't turn out that Effexor was as safe as we were told that it was.
Everyone has been telling people how wonderful the drug is, and it's nice to be able find out that it is a potentially dangerous drug before one takes it, not some time down the line after it's already in one's body.
Posted by dancingstar on January 24, 2005, at 16:46:06
In reply to Re: Benadryl is safe for some and in certain forms, posted by eeyorena on January 24, 2005, at 16:27:06
...as usual, thank you :-)
Posted by not2late4u on January 24, 2005, at 21:36:03
In reply to RE: NEW THREAD IS AT BOTTOM OF THIS PAGE, posted by FaithT on January 24, 2005, at 12:56:50
FaithT, GREAT! I think its so important to have a big picture of Effexor. As you know Im withdrawing now, because its just time for me and I did have some fatigue issues, but I'd take it again if needed to. Thanks for posting a new thread, its needed.
Posted by not2late4u on January 24, 2005, at 21:39:20
In reply to RE: NEW THREAD - POSITIVE EFFEXOR EXPERIENCE, posted by FaithT on January 24, 2005, at 4:19:29
FaithT, here's another thread you know about thought it'd be good for those who are withdrawing or want to: "Effexor Withdraw, Tapering Off - CAN BE DONE" is another positive post. God Bless you FaithT!
Posted by not2late4u on January 24, 2005, at 21:41:22
In reply to RE: NEW THREAD - POSITIVE EFFEXOR EXPERIENCE » FaithT, posted by corafree on January 24, 2005, at 12:02:19
CF, sounds like youre doing better. Really happy for you. Anxiety was my primary dx, depression came afterwards for me to. Anyways, sounds like we might have that in common :) Renee
Posted by not2late4u on January 24, 2005, at 21:48:53
In reply to RE: NEW THREAD - POSITIVE EFFEXOR EXPERIENCE, posted by medhed on January 24, 2005, at 12:20:22
Medhead, Sorry for your experience and glad you were able to get the help you needed. I think, as others do, thats its just as important to know the POSITIVE experiences as it is the negative, so thank you for letting us know that you know of others who sweat by it. God Bless, Renee
Posted by FaithT on January 24, 2005, at 23:52:53
In reply to Has anyone had success on Effexor » FaithT, posted by dancingstar on January 24, 2005, at 16:44:45
Bebe~
In all due respect, people also need a place to find positive experiences on the drug. Do they not? People do need hope, Bebe, and not every single person feels lied to by their Dr., or tainted by Effexor.
I do not wish to debate this. So, I kindly ask you to not post directly to me, and I will do the same.
Faith~
Posted by FaithT on January 24, 2005, at 23:57:55
In reply to RE: NEW THREAD IS AT BOTTOM OF THIS PAGE » FaithT, posted by not2late4u on January 24, 2005, at 21:36:03
Thanks so much Renee~
A agree, and I think that there needs to be a balance of postive and negative about Effexor.
I found your post,and I think it's awsome that your journaling your withdrawl. I posted to you there,as well.
You know I'm behind you...You will get through this,and be just fine.
Many hugs, Faith~
Posted by corafree on January 25, 2005, at 0:23:41
In reply to RE: NEW THREAD - POSITIVE EFFEXOR EXPERIENCE, posted by eeyorena on January 24, 2005, at 16:30:13
You know what, I don't think so. I thought I'd been on everything out there, but never an MAOI. Can I ask you; why do you think they were never suggested to me, and for what form of depression are they indicated? Tks cf
Posted by dancingstar on January 25, 2005, at 2:14:32
In reply to Re: Has anyone had success on Effexor » dancingstar, posted by FaithT on January 24, 2005, at 23:52:53
Well, Faith, you have certainly told me. I feel appropriately chastised.
(hanging my head in shame.)
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 25, 2005, at 8:11:11
In reply to Re: Has anyone had success on Effexor » FaithT, posted by dancingstar on January 25, 2005, at 2:14:32
> Well, Faith, you have certainly told me.
If someone asks you not to post to them, please don't post to them.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#harassed
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by tatarka on January 25, 2005, at 10:07:12
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by Jen2 on January 23, 2005, at 19:25:43
Hey Jen, couldn't stop myself to follow up your post. So many similarities in our situation! I moved to another country three and half years ago, and I knew NOONE beside my husband with whome I have very difficult relationship. Plus I couldn't speak English at all! The only thing that excited me was that I'm far away from that nightmare in my original country.
I also had heart palpitations all the time and felt like i'm going to die. I was really-really depressed, and decided try to see psychiatrist as psychologist didnt help much and besides psychiatrist is for free - by referral from physichian.
Just wanted to share these similarities with you and let you know that someone like me perfectly understand your feelings. I still dont have any friends here (just one buddy-girl at work), and my marriage life didnt improve much (although therapy sessions do help to solve some issues).
I'm planning to get off Effexor as soon as possible, but I still need smth to switch to :( Good luck to you!!> Hi all,
>
> Thought I'd add my two cents. I just posted the same stuff to the newbies group, so it'll be a duplicate if you read it there first.
>
> I've been reading psycho-babble and the newbies group for the past week after I started taking Effexor, and these boards have been a great help to me. Thanks for the insight and advice and facts - they sure helped during a bad time. I've decided to post for the first time to let you know some of my story and maybe hear back from you.
>
> Two years ago I moved to a very large new city - halfway across the country, where I knew exactly one person (aside from my partner with whom I moved - and with whom I have a difficult relationship). I had 4 months of misery, then worked for a while (which was also miserable - almost intolerable) and then returned to school to do a masters degree. And that's been kind of miserable too.
>
> In November I had a bit of a, you might say, nervous breakdown. I was suffering from school /performance anxiety and intense pressures from relationships (too much and too difficult to go into now), although I think the fact that I'm a workaholic and that I've been working for the past 10 years in extraordinarily stressful jobs (in politics) didn't help matters. It was the worst three weeks of my life. I was extraordinarily anxious, paranoid, incredibly depressed, not quite delusional but almost, heart palpitations constantly the whole time. It was like something snapped in my brain that then affected my whole system. I felt like I was going to die.
>
> I went to my doctor, who initially prescribed Lorazepam. It made me feel dead inside so she prescribed Effexor instead, but I was afraid of taking an antidepressant so decided I would just coast through Christmas and see how I felt afterwards. Well, Christmas was depressing, I felt a bit better but not great, and then after returning to school for two weeks I thought again that I was going to die. So I started taking the meds. I had to do something.
>
> Well, here's where it gets interesting. The first couple of days were fine - I didn't feel anything at all. Days three through five, however, were a living nightmare. Nervous, anxious, sweaty, horribly depressed, couldn't focus my eyes (which also happened throughout my anxiety), felt disconnected from myself, crying jags, horrible horrible horrible. Spent three days on the couch watching bad TV and could barely cope with that. Days six and seven were tolerable, but day eight was a return to the pit of despair and physical terror. So I had a week of hell - I was white knuckling it through my days.
>
> Day nine was OK, but on day ten the clouds parted and the sun came out. I'm on day twelve now, and I'm feeling more content and able to cope than I have in months if not years. (I am, however, feeling no anxiety at all, which isn't good because I have very little motivation to get my work done. But right now, it's better than the anxiety and depression so I'm not going to sweat it for a while.)
>
> The nasty part of this is that, while the doctor prescribed the starter 37.5mg dose - which I thought I was taking - the pharmacist actually dispensed the 75mg dose. I didn't figure that out until day ten - who would think, especially in the depths of despair, to examine your pills to ensure the pharmacist gave you the right dosage? Not me. So I have been taking double the dose that I should have. No wonder I felt like I was going to die. I thought it was just my anxiety and depression, but it was actually the meds. I'm so angry about this. I couldn't cope for an entire week - I lost a week out of school and out of my life and it's the damn pharmacist's fault.
>
> So not only am I angry about having been prescribed a drug that, I now find out thanks to all of you on these boards, has such serious side effects and the potential for horrible withdrawal, I'm also angry that my pharmacist screwed up and made my already hellish life more hellish for a week.
>
> So thanks for letting me get this off my chest. I hope that I will continue to do well, although I know now to take my good days when I find them. I'm also getting psychotherapy and that's helping a bit. And I know enough now to start planning to manage the withdrawal when the time comes.
>
> Best to all,
> Jen
>
Posted by corafree on January 25, 2005, at 10:14:33
In reply to Re: Has anyone had success on Effexor » FaithT, posted by dancingstar on January 25, 2005, at 2:14:32
I guess there must be a structure to every organization or idea?
When I post, I feel like I am posting to all the people involved in a particular discussion, and don't necessarily expect that certain person who posted last, to respond to me, but rather anyone who has the time, to offer their opinion or knowledge, regarding the discussion.
I dislike seeing good discussion come to a halt, because it involves many people searching for knowledge. Never been quite politically correct myself. cf
Posted by Minnie-Haha on January 25, 2005, at 11:15:33
In reply to Has anyone had success on Effexor » FaithT, posted by dancingstar on January 24, 2005, at 16:44:45
> Everyone has been telling people how wonderful the drug is, and it's nice to be able find out that it is a potentially dangerous drug before one takes it, not some time down the line after it's already in one's body.
SOME people have reported how wonderful Effexor has been for them. (Just as some here have reported that Nardil or Wellbutrin or whatever have been wonderful for them.) SOME have also reported that Effexor was only a so-so or temporary solution for them. Then, yes, SOME have reported that Effexor has been a bad, or even horrible, experience for them.
The truth is that one only needs to be a member of this board for a short while to see that failures or bad experiences -- on ALL KINDS of drugs -- get reported more often than successes or good experiences. That seems to be why so many of us are here: We want to share what's not working and try to get advice about what might work. The truth as I see it is that Effexor has been good for some people (myself included, a few years ago) and bad for others... just like the dozens of other drugs discussed here.
I strongly urge all newbies here to not just take a doctor's or drug company's word about how safe something is, or a few posters words about how dangerous. One also has to do research, read those confusing package inserts carefully, and understand that all drugs have benefits AND risks. That's what you have to weigh with your doctors and your most trusted family members or friends.
Finally, I would urge everyone to carefully consider the decision to stop any med cold-turkey. I had to once because of an allergic reaction (not Effexor) and it was very painful. Both starting and stopping prescriptions should be carefully planned.
Posted by dancingstar on January 25, 2005, at 11:49:45
In reply to Re: Has anyone had success on Effexor, posted by corafree on January 25, 2005, at 10:14:33
I made the mistake, CF, origianlly, of checking the box adding the name of the previous poster, though the comment was not directed at anyone in particular.
Nothing changed. I just won't address the poster that asked me to not address them, which is fine.
Posted by eeyorena on January 25, 2005, at 12:06:19
In reply to RE: NEW THREAD - POSITIVE EFFEXOR EXPERIENCE » eeyorena, posted by corafree on January 25, 2005, at 0:23:41
I have atypical depression, which is characterized by mood reactivity, sensitivity to rejection, excessive sleeping (versus insomnia), leaden paralysis, increased weight (vs. decrease), and chronic dysphoria (anxiety, depression and unease).
MAOIs have been around for absolutely ever. In the 1950's, little was known about the interaction between MAOI's, blood pressure and dosage. Dosages were too high (which caused liver damage). Patients' diets were not restricted. There is an early case study (from the 50's) of a patient in the UK on an MAOI who died after consuming three kinds of aged cheeses plus alcohol for dinner, then who had more aged cheese for breakfast.
Now, we know a LOT more about MAOI's.
There is a lot of misinformation about MAOI's still floating around out there which makes many doctors hesitant to suggest it to patients. They will try other meds first which require fewer lifestyle changes.
However, for people with atypical depression or treatment resistance who are not responding well to tricyclics, SSRI's, or newer classes of meds...MAOI's can be an excellent choice.
Doctor's will NOT prescribe Parnate (which is one kind of MAOI...the one I'm on) to patients with the following:
-cerebrovascular or cardiovascular disorders
-pheochromocytoma
-anorexia
-Parkinson's disease
-Diabetic patients
-liver disease or abnormal liver tests
-in combination with any of the following drugs...Marplan, Furoxone, Eutonyl, Mardil, Natulane, Elavil, Endep, Etrafon, Triavil, Anafranil, Norpramin, Petrofrane, Janimine, Tofranil, Aventyl, Pamelor, Vivactil, Adapin, Sinequan, Tegretol, Flexeril, Asendin, Surmontil, Wellbutrin, Redux, any SSRI, meperidine, dextromethorphan, Buspar, amphetamines, OTC weight-reducing meds, or OTC cold/hay fever meds.How do MAOI's work?
A doctor will give you a more educated answer. An incomplete but easier to visualize answer might be this: Your body produces a chemical that keeps your blood pressure from getting too high. If you eat certain foods or take certain drugs and your blood pressure rises, your body will try to bring your blood pressure down by releasing this chemical...an MAO...which acts as a kind of "safety valve." Parnate is an MAOInhibitor. It inhibits the production of MAO. That is why it is important, when on this drug, to take care of your blood pressure.
What about this "MAOI Diet" I hear about?
Patients on Parnate follow a special "diet" which elimates foods with high tyramine content. Tyramine occurs in foods which are required or have been allowed to age, but not all foods have to be aged to contain tyramine. Foods to avoid: Aged meats (sausage, salami, etc.), aged cheeses, beer/wine/sherry/liqueurs, yogurt, pickled herring, anchovies, caviar, sauerkraut, pods of broad beans, liver, canned figs, avocados, overripe fruit, sour cream, soy sauce, tofu and high quality chocolate.
There are many "MAOI diet" lists out there which have some misinformation on them. I've found that "faux chocolate" (most commercial American light chocolate) contains lower levels of tyramine. Some diet lists include bananas, when (actually) banana peels and overripe bananas are the culprits. Young cheeses (such as fresh mozzarella) or faux cheese (such as American cheese) have not created problems for me personally, but I am not a doctor or a dietician.
On Parnate, I eat better than I ever have. I eat a lot more fresh or frozen vegetables and meats, as well as less cheese and chocolate. I avoid foods with a lot of additives. I started to because I was nervous, but now I do because I've noticed an improvement in my overall health. Strangely, I don't have the cravings for carbs, caffeine, chocolate or cheese that I used to...which really makes me wonder about how I used to self-medicate with food. When I started Parnate, it was a little worrisome because I lost my appetite completely and dropped a LOT of weight. Eventually, I stabilized but still don't have the weight gain I had on other AD's.
I wear a Med Alert ID bracelet (a pretty one actually) with my other med names on it...I take Parnate, Allegra, Cytomel and Neurontin. This is really a good idea for anyone on meds anyway. I got one when my husband suggested it. He was nervous that he wouldn't remember all of my meds if something happened. With Parnate, it is a good idea because hospitals will want to be very careful about administering anethesia if you are on Parnate. Better that they know.
So, it's a bit more complex than Prozac or Zoloft. But, I've been on it for 2 years and it has worked wonders for me. So...I like it.
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