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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 19 to 43 of 128. Go back in thread:
Posted by chemist on May 5, 2004, at 11:12:23
In reply to Re: seroquel to geodon ... weight and sleep? » chemist, posted by nmk on May 5, 2004, at 10:25:13
> > chemist here...sorry to hear about the weight gain and that increased seroquel poved to be as sedating as lower doses....and equally problematic is geodon......i can only relate my experience with sleep and benzos/ambien, and i have found that ambien worked quite well for me when i needed it, and that earlier trials of xanax and halcion put me to sleep, but the hangover was a little much: it took a lot of coffee to get out of the fog in the a.m. if i recall, there is an edge on ambien over benzos in that your stages of sleep are preserved, i.e., on ambien you get a ``quality'' snooze and with benzos there are some stages that are not visited for the requisite amounts of time....all the best, chemist
>
>
> Dear Chemist,
>
> I am struggling with the same issues but with Zyprexa weight gain instead. My doctor has prescribed 500mg of Glucophage (Metformin) and says this should help reduce the weight gain. Any insights on this med and its effectiveness? I know it messes with your insulin levels and am also concerned about the safety of this med on a long term basis. As always, I appreciate your responses and your vast knowledge of meds.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nicole
>
hi nicole.....i am puzzled about the metformin for weight control....you can expect hypoglycemia, but i am unaware of of a med for diabetes mellitus being used to counter the weight-gain associated with an atypical antipsychotic....are your triglycerides very high?....this is the only thing i can think of as a reason why this med is being prescribed with respect to concurrent use of zyprexa, which (if i recall) has been shown to increase triglyceride levels...i am not certain if this alone (elevated triglycerides) is the reason why zyprexa is associated with weight-gain in almost enveryone who takes it...seems that, given the number (and types) of receptors it hits, that reduction of triglycerides with metformin would not be the remedy in toto. ask your doctor about the rationale, and i'll do some digging to see if there are any pubs that indicate that this has been successful....more soon, and all the best, chemist
Posted by chemist on May 5, 2004, at 12:08:33
In reply to Re: seroquel to geodon ... weight and sleep? » chemist, posted by nmk on May 5, 2004, at 10:25:13
hi nicole...a quick perusal of pubmed reveals: yes, elevated trglycerides have been found in patients on zyprexa; one study found that zyprexa use precipitated diabetes mellitus but 5 of the six patients had some risk for diabetes mellitus before the study, and a switch to seroquel resulted in moderation of ``glycaemic control'' in 2 of the 6 patients (yes, a small cohort but valuable information); a study of zyprexa vs. risperidone revealed that the zyprexa group had high triglycerides, low HDL cholesterol levels, high cholesterol:HDL, high apolipoprotein B, smaller LDL peak particle diameters, and higher fasting insulin concentrations than the risperidone group, conclusions that zyprexa altered metabolic profile for increased risk of atherosclerosis (essentialy, they researchers were looking for a link to heart trouble) over those taking risperidone; another found elevated levels of a protein involved with regulation of glucose metabolism and insulin sensitivity in schizophrenic patients on either zyprexa or risperidone. the protein concentration dropped as the zyprexa patients put on weight, and in the risperidol group, the protein concentration remained high regardless of weight gain/loss; another indicates that weight gain on zyprexa was statistically significant vs. risperidone, seroquel, and haldol; another looked at weight gain in smoking/non-smoking schizophrenics who were taking zyprexa or risperidone. in the zyprexa group, smokers/non-smokers gained weight, yet in the risperidone group, smokers gained less weight than the non-smokers, conclusions being that zyprexa offsets the (common) weight loss seen in smokers but risperidone does not, implying that zyprexa does indeed change your metabolic system; another points to weight gain resulting from affinity for H_{1} histaminergic and alpha_{1} adreneergic receptors, in addition to ``changes in insulin sensitivity'' (among others), and they found that metformin was effective in decreasing weight gain associated with atypical anti-psychotics (Curr. Drug Targets, 5:279-299, 2004); another found that hyperglycemia occurs with treatment of only clozapine or zyprexa, and that weight gian came before onset of hyperglycemia in 2/3 of the patients with hyperglycemia. i note that this study was a 7-year long one, and the study group was 86,349 patients in 35 mental institutions, and that the _total_ number of hyperglycemic patients was 9 (nine, not a typo); okay, that's it for this....seems like zyprexa is pretty-well documented to cause alteration of metabolic pathways and maybe (in the one study) metformin can send your system towards the `right'' side...hope this helps, all the best, chemist
Posted by nmk on May 5, 2004, at 14:07:39
In reply to Re: seroquel to geodon ... weight and sleep? » nmk, posted by chemist on May 5, 2004, at 12:08:33
> hi nicole...a quick perusal of pubmed reveals: yes, elevated trglycerides have been found in patients on zyprexa; one study found that zyprexa use precipitated diabetes mellitus but 5 of the six patients had some risk for diabetes mellitus before the study, and a switch to seroquel resulted in moderation of ``glycaemic control'' in 2 of the 6 patients (yes, a small cohort but valuable information); a study of zyprexa vs. risperidone revealed that the zyprexa group had high triglycerides, low HDL cholesterol levels, high cholesterol:HDL, high apolipoprotein B, smaller LDL peak particle diameters, and higher fasting insulin concentrations than the risperidone group, conclusions that zyprexa altered metabolic profile for increased risk of atherosclerosis (essentialy, they researchers were looking for a link to heart trouble) over those taking risperidone; another found elevated levels of a protein involved with regulation of glucose metabolism and insulin sensitivity in schizophrenic patients on either zyprexa or risperidone. the protein concentration dropped as the zyprexa patients put on weight, and in the risperidol group, the protein concentration remained high regardless of weight gain/loss; another indicates that weight gain on zyprexa was statistically significant vs. risperidone, seroquel, and haldol; another looked at weight gain in smoking/non-smoking schizophrenics who were taking zyprexa or risperidone. in the zyprexa group, smokers/non-smokers gained weight, yet in the risperidone group, smokers gained less weight than the non-smokers, conclusions being that zyprexa offsets the (common) weight loss seen in smokers but risperidone does not, implying that zyprexa does indeed change your metabolic system; another points to weight gain resulting from affinity for H_{1} histaminergic and alpha_{1} adreneergic receptors, in addition to ``changes in insulin sensitivity'' (among others), and they found that metformin was effective in decreasing weight gain associated with atypical anti-psychotics (Curr. Drug Targets, 5:279-299, 2004); another found that hyperglycemia occurs with treatment of only clozapine or zyprexa, and that weight gian came before onset of hyperglycemia in 2/3 of the patients with hyperglycemia. i note that this study was a 7-year long one, and the study group was 86,349 patients in 35 mental institutions, and that the _total_ number of hyperglycemic patients was 9 (nine, not a typo); okay, that's it for this....seems like zyprexa is pretty-well documented to cause alteration of metabolic pathways and maybe (in the one study) metformin can send your system towards the `right'' side...hope this helps, all the best, chemist
Chemist,WOW!!!!!!! Thanks for the information. I didn't expect you to do all you have done in regard to researching the literature so I greatly appreciate your help.
I work in an educational institution and have access to all of the medical journals. I would like to read some of the journal articles you came across in your discoveries. Does "Curr. Drug Targets" stand for "Current". Are there any other journals that would help me in my quest to better understand the actions of these meds?
Again, you have been a wonderful help to me and all the best to you too!
Nicole
Posted by nmk on May 5, 2004, at 14:16:02
In reply to Re: seroquel to geodon ... weight and sleep? » nmk, posted by chemist on May 5, 2004, at 12:08:33
Hi again,
Here is a good link describing the relationship between AP's and weight gain, along with various treatment options.
Again, thanks a bunch!
Nicole
http://www.psycheducation.org/hormones/Insulin/weightgain.htm
Posted by chemist on May 5, 2004, at 14:36:56
In reply to Re: seroquel to geodon ... weight and sleep? » chemist, posted by nmk on May 5, 2004, at 14:07:39
> > hi nicole...a quick perusal of pubmed reveals: yes, elevated trglycerides have been found in patients on zyprexa; one study found that zyprexa use precipitated diabetes mellitus but 5 of the six patients had some risk for diabetes mellitus before the study, and a switch to seroquel resulted in moderation of ``glycaemic control'' in 2 of the 6 patients (yes, a small cohort but valuable information); a study of zyprexa vs. risperidone revealed that the zyprexa group had high triglycerides, low HDL cholesterol levels, high cholesterol:HDL, high apolipoprotein B, smaller LDL peak particle diameters, and higher fasting insulin concentrations than the risperidone group, conclusions that zyprexa altered metabolic profile for increased risk of atherosclerosis (essentialy, they researchers were looking for a link to heart trouble) over those taking risperidone; another found elevated levels of a protein involved with regulation of glucose metabolism and insulin sensitivity in schizophrenic patients on either zyprexa or risperidone. the protein concentration dropped as the zyprexa patients put on weight, and in the risperidol group, the protein concentration remained high regardless of weight gain/loss; another indicates that weight gain on zyprexa was statistically significant vs. risperidone, seroquel, and haldol; another looked at weight gain in smoking/non-smoking schizophrenics who were taking zyprexa or risperidone. in the zyprexa group, smokers/non-smokers gained weight, yet in the risperidone group, smokers gained less weight than the non-smokers, conclusions being that zyprexa offsets the (common) weight loss seen in smokers but risperidone does not, implying that zyprexa does indeed change your metabolic system; another points to weight gain resulting from affinity for H_{1} histaminergic and alpha_{1} adreneergic receptors, in addition to ``changes in insulin sensitivity'' (among others), and they found that metformin was effective in decreasing weight gain associated with atypical anti-psychotics (Curr. Drug Targets, 5:279-299, 2004); another found that hyperglycemia occurs with treatment of only clozapine or zyprexa, and that weight gian came before onset of hyperglycemia in 2/3 of the patients with hyperglycemia. i note that this study was a 7-year long one, and the study group was 86,349 patients in 35 mental institutions, and that the _total_ number of hyperglycemic patients was 9 (nine, not a typo); okay, that's it for this....seems like zyprexa is pretty-well documented to cause alteration of metabolic pathways and maybe (in the one study) metformin can send your system towards the `right'' side...hope this helps, all the best, chemist
>
>
> Chemist,
>
> WOW!!!!!!! Thanks for the information. I didn't expect you to do all you have done in regard to researching the literature so I greatly appreciate your help.
>
> I work in an educational institution and have access to all of the medical journals. I would like to read some of the journal articles you came across in your discoveries. Does "Curr. Drug Targets" stand for "Current". Are there any other journals that would help me in my quest to better understand the actions of these meds?
>
> Again, you have been a wonderful help to me and all the best to you too!
>
> Nicole
>
>
hi nicole...sorry, i should have included all the citations from the abstracts i was perusing...Current Drug Targets it is, you are correct. here's what i did to get the abstracts, if you do the same, you will see the reference. so: go to www.pubmed.org and in the white box near the top type in the word olanzapine. then you can start scrolling, and if your institution has online access to the journals, you can keep clicking and download the pdf or simply read the article on-line....a few of the journals that came up were American Journal of Psychiatry, Journal of Affective Disorders, Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, Journal of Clinical Psychopharmacology, Journal of Psychopharmacology, Schizophrenia Research, and Current Drug Targets.....hope this helps, let me know if i steered you right or wrong....all the best, chemist
Posted by chemist on May 5, 2004, at 14:37:45
In reply to One link you may want to read » chemist, posted by nmk on May 5, 2004, at 14:16:02
> Hi again,
>
> Here is a good link describing the relationship between AP's and weight gain, along with various treatment options.
>
> Again, thanks a bunch!
>
> Nicole
>...and my thanks to you! all the best, chemist
> http://www.psycheducation.org/hormones/Insulin/weightgain.htm
Posted by nmk on May 6, 2004, at 8:57:23
In reply to Re: seroquel to geodon ... weight and sleep? » nmk, posted by chemist on May 5, 2004, at 14:36:56
Thanks for the web address....I will do some surfing today. You have been a great help and I truly appreciate it.
Nicole:)
Posted by lilli on May 26, 2004, at 18:34:14
In reply to Seroquel users: a couple of questions, posted by Nohope on April 25, 2004, at 0:50:43
>
Hi - I took one 25mg of seroquel last night and woke up with the most horrendous headache, fogginess, hangover, sickness. I came like waves all day - I could barely work. It helped me in that the fogginess caused me to feel less pain but I just can't take another day of this - is this how I am supposed to feel??? How do i get the positive benefit of feeling less mental pain but avoid another day in fogland?please help.
thanks.also - my doc wants me to start taking lithium - i'm already on welbutrin(thank god for that) but adding seroquel and lithium - has anybody had that cocktail?
Posted by Sabina on May 27, 2004, at 7:21:34
In reply to Re: Seroquel users: a couple of questions, posted by lilli on May 26, 2004, at 18:34:14
seroquel does indeed take some getting used to. it made me very sleepy at first, and i still only take it in 25mg increments. still, nothing like you're talking about that comes in waves and lasts all day from only one dose. i wish i could help more, but you'll just have to judge if you can manage to function on it and see if the potential good will outweigh the initial se's (which *did* diminish for me) or if this med's not for you.
sabina
topamax 100mg
seroquel 100mg
xanax 1 mg prn
Posted by Julius on June 4, 2004, at 17:04:36
In reply to seroquel to geodon ... weight and sleep?, posted by jtevers on May 4, 2004, at 16:52:43
I am swtiching over to Abilify, getting off Seroquel and cannot sleep at night. I have been on 900 mg of Seroquel for three years. I tried taking Benadryl but this does not help. I cannot take any Seroquel for various reasons to help me fall asleep. Please help. Thanks.
Posted by jtevers on June 9, 2004, at 20:04:11
In reply to seroquel and not sleeping, posted by Julius on June 4, 2004, at 17:04:36
> I am swtiching over to Abilify, getting off Seroquel and cannot sleep at night. I have been on 900 mg of Seroquel for three years. I tried taking Benadryl but this does not help. I cannot take any Seroquel for various reasons to help me fall asleep. Please help. Thanks.
i have been switching from seroquel to geodon (like abilify it is "activating", rather than sedating and causes insomnia) and have similar experiences.
although my doctor has been apprehensive, i am currently taking about 12.5 mg. of ambien nightly to sleep.
i have heard that, unlike conventional benzodiazepines, you don't acclimate to ambien and it will consistently cause sleep. there are some that warn against taking ambien long-term though.
i have been switching from seroquel because of the weight gain i experienced while taking it ... sound familiar?
ambien is just one of the many solutions i have read is a solution to sleeplessness ... but one i have heard is effective for chronic insomnia.
look to the future for the release of Estorra another insomnia medication being released later this year.
hope this helps.
Posted by cpallen79 on July 9, 2004, at 17:26:07
In reply to Re: Seroquel users: a couple of questions » Nohope, posted by chemist on April 25, 2004, at 22:22:51
Hi Chemist, I too am taking Seroquel for sleep and anxiety. How long does it stay in the system? If I skip a day, will I have "rebound insomnia" and anxiety? Will this go away shortly if it happens? Is this medication addictive, or is there severe withdrawal from it like some SSRIS and benzos? I know some of these questions are silly but I had a really bad experience with an ssri that was very difficult to get off.
Thanks
Chris
> > > hi there, chemist here....seroquel in low dosages is a hypnotic, but as you increase, the grogginess will go away. if you want to go to sleep, take 25 to 50 mg at bedtime: you're out like a light. as you work your way towards 150-200 mg, the effects you are seeking will take hold and the hypnotic aspect of te drug will be diminished....all the best, chemist
> >
> > Thank you very much. Any more info on Seroquel you can share?
> >
> > Nohope
> >
> >
> hi there....seroquel hits th 5-HT_{2} and dopamine_{2} receptors pretty hard....it is an atypical antipsychotic that, along with risperidone and ziprasidone, has recently been on the radar for mood stabilizing effects. ziprasidone (geodon, zonegran) is more weight-neutral than the others, with wieght-gain with seroquel being less a problem than risperidone and slightly more than that of ziprasidone. the extrapyrimidal side effects - especially with ziprasidone, which include SJS and a prolonged QT interval, making this one my least favorite - are reduced vs. typical antipsychotics. all in all, seroquel is superior in my opinion, although i have one client whoo is truly schizophrenic and like risperidone the best, although dietary adjustments are necessary and exercise (never a bad thing) is important for weight-gain.....if you want to roll the dice, you could do worse than seroquel....let me know if you need more info, i will provide what i can....all the best, chemist
Posted by jerrympls on July 9, 2004, at 19:01:48
In reply to Re: Seroquel users: a couple of questions » chemist, posted by cpallen79 on July 9, 2004, at 17:26:07
Seroquel has caused me to gain almost 100 pounds in 18 months. UGH. I only take it for insomnia and I want to get off of it......
Jerry
Posted by chemist on July 9, 2004, at 19:33:49
In reply to Re: Seroquel users: a couple of questions » chemist, posted by cpallen79 on July 9, 2004, at 17:26:07
> Hi Chemist, I too am taking Seroquel for sleep and anxiety. How long does it stay in the system? If I skip a day, will I have "rebound insomnia" and anxiety? Will this go away shortly if it happens? Is this medication addictive, or is there severe withdrawal from it like some SSRIS and benzos? I know some of these questions are silly but I had a really bad experience with an ssri that was very difficult to get off.
> Thanks
> Chris
>
hello there, chemist here.....i was doing the 25 to 50 mg dose for a good few months, and i would sometimes not need it or sometimes need only 25 or sometimes 50, and no rebound insomnia, even when i stopped. all that said, chronic dosing will lead to a build-up in your system, but if you are the low-dose range, the washout shouldn't be too severe. i can not recall any adverse effects, and no silly questions here - i think wise sage larry hoover said the only [silly] question is one that is not asked....and i agree with him. you ask about withdrawl, and i cannot say that at the low dose range it is anything like coming of an ssri or a benzo. i had quite a good run with it, and you will hear about weight gain, but this is dose-dependent, and the lit indicates that 200 up to 800 mg qd is the dose for treating schizophrenia, so you are well below that....there is trouble with blood sugar levels which could lead to type II diabetes, but i suspect the incidence is low, although this is my conjecture *and* i mean low for your dose range (assuming you are in the 25-50 mg prn hs range)....please let me know if this is of help, all the best, chemist
>
> > > > hi there, chemist here....seroquel in low dosages is a hypnotic, but as you increase, the grogginess will go away. if you want to go to sleep, take 25 to 50 mg at bedtime: you're out like a light. as you work your way towards 150-200 mg, the effects you are seeking will take hold and the hypnotic aspect of te drug will be diminished....all the best, chemist
> > >
> > > Thank you very much. Any more info on Seroquel you can share?
> > >
> > > Nohope
> > >
> > >
> > hi there....seroquel hits th 5-HT_{2} and dopamine_{2} receptors pretty hard....it is an atypical antipsychotic that, along with risperidone and ziprasidone, has recently been on the radar for mood stabilizing effects. ziprasidone (geodon, zonegran) is more weight-neutral than the others, with wieght-gain with seroquel being less a problem than risperidone and slightly more than that of ziprasidone. the extrapyrimidal side effects - especially with ziprasidone, which include SJS and a prolonged QT interval, making this one my least favorite - are reduced vs. typical antipsychotics. all in all, seroquel is superior in my opinion, although i have one client whoo is truly schizophrenic and like risperidone the best, although dietary adjustments are necessary and exercise (never a bad thing) is important for weight-gain.....if you want to roll the dice, you could do worse than seroquel....let me know if you need more info, i will provide what i can....all the best, chemist
>
>
Posted by cpallen79 on July 9, 2004, at 20:13:25
In reply to Re: Seroquel users: a couple of questions, posted by jerrympls on July 9, 2004, at 19:01:48
Jerry, how much are you taking!? Best of luck, I'm sure you'll shed that weight. I take many others things for major depression/anxiety. I also have attention deficit disorder so I take a stimulant that helps to offset those types of effects.
> Seroquel has caused me to gain almost 100 pounds in 18 months. UGH. I only take it for insomnia and I want to get off of it......
>
> Jerry
Posted by cpallen79 on July 9, 2004, at 20:18:28
In reply to Re: Seroquel users: a couple of questions » cpallen79, posted by chemist on July 9, 2004, at 19:33:49
Chemist, thanks for your response! I feel more comforted in taking this medication to help me with anxiety and insomnia now. Nothing is more painful than having to go through med withdrawals and it's ncie to know this isn't goign to be a seriosu problem at smaller doses if I forget to take it.
> > Hi Chemist, I too am taking Seroquel for sleep and anxiety. How long does it stay in the system? If I skip a day, will I have "rebound insomnia" and anxiety? Will this go away shortly if it happens? Is this medication addictive, or is there severe withdrawal from it like some SSRIS and benzos? I know some of these questions are silly but I had a really bad experience with an ssri that was very difficult to get off.
> > Thanks
> > Chris
> >
> hello there, chemist here.....i was doing the 25 to 50 mg dose for a good few months, and i would sometimes not need it or sometimes need only 25 or sometimes 50, and no rebound insomnia, even when i stopped. all that said, chronic dosing will lead to a build-up in your system, but if you are the low-dose range, the washout shouldn't be too severe. i can not recall any adverse effects, and no silly questions here - i think wise sage larry hoover said the only [silly] question is one that is not asked....and i agree with him. you ask about withdrawl, and i cannot say that at the low dose range it is anything like coming of an ssri or a benzo. i had quite a good run with it, and you will hear about weight gain, but this is dose-dependent, and the lit indicates that 200 up to 800 mg qd is the dose for treating schizophrenia, so you are well below that....there is trouble with blood sugar levels which could lead to type II diabetes, but i suspect the incidence is low, although this is my conjecture *and* i mean low for your dose range (assuming you are in the 25-50 mg prn hs range)....please let me know if this is of help, all the best, chemist
> >
> > > > > hi there, chemist here....seroquel in low dosages is a hypnotic, but as you increase, the grogginess will go away. if you want to go to sleep, take 25 to 50 mg at bedtime: you're out like a light. as you work your way towards 150-200 mg, the effects you are seeking will take hold and the hypnotic aspect of te drug will be diminished....all the best, chemist
> > > >
> > > > Thank you very much. Any more info on Seroquel you can share?
> > > >
> > > > Nohope
> > > >
> > > >
> > > hi there....seroquel hits th 5-HT_{2} and dopamine_{2} receptors pretty hard....it is an atypical antipsychotic that, along with risperidone and ziprasidone, has recently been on the radar for mood stabilizing effects. ziprasidone (geodon, zonegran) is more weight-neutral than the others, with wieght-gain with seroquel being less a problem than risperidone and slightly more than that of ziprasidone. the extrapyrimidal side effects - especially with ziprasidone, which include SJS and a prolonged QT interval, making this one my least favorite - are reduced vs. typical antipsychotics. all in all, seroquel is superior in my opinion, although i have one client whoo is truly schizophrenic and like risperidone the best, although dietary adjustments are necessary and exercise (never a bad thing) is important for weight-gain.....if you want to roll the dice, you could do worse than seroquel....let me know if you need more info, i will provide what i can....all the best, chemist
> >
> >
>
Posted by jerrympls on July 9, 2004, at 20:42:26
In reply to Re: Seroquel users: a couple of questions » jerrympls, posted by cpallen79 on July 9, 2004, at 20:13:25
> Jerry, how much are you taking!? Best of luck, I'm sure you'll shed that weight. I take many others things for major depression/anxiety. I also have attention deficit disorder so I take a stimulant that helps to offset those types of effects.
>
> > Seroquel has caused me to gain almost 100 pounds in 18 months. UGH. I only take it for insomnia and I want to get off of it......
> >
> > Jerry
>
>HI!
I'm taking 200mg at night. I am also on a stimulant but the weight keeps sticking!! ARGH!
Posted by chemist on July 9, 2004, at 20:52:19
In reply to Re: Seroquel users: a couple of questions » chemist, posted by cpallen79 on July 9, 2004, at 20:18:28
> Chemist, thanks for your response! I feel more comforted in taking this medication to help me with anxiety and insomnia now. Nothing is more painful than having to go through med withdrawals and it's ncie to know this isn't goign to be a seriosu problem at smaller doses if I forget to take it.
heloo again...i notice you are at 200 mg, so missing a dose will be less of a problem in re: rebound insomnia. in fact, if you titrate down a bit, you will *increase* the sedative/hypnotic effect while also reduce the propensity for weight gain. i am assuming you are striving to use the drug for sleep purposes only in this regard.....all the best, chemist
>
>
> > > Hi Chemist, I too am taking Seroquel for sleep and anxiety. How long does it stay in the system? If I skip a day, will I have "rebound insomnia" and anxiety? Will this go away shortly if it happens? Is this medication addictive, or is there severe withdrawal from it like some SSRIS and benzos? I know some of these questions are silly but I had a really bad experience with an ssri that was very difficult to get off.
> > > Thanks
> > > Chris
> > >
> > hello there, chemist here.....i was doing the 25 to 50 mg dose for a good few months, and i would sometimes not need it or sometimes need only 25 or sometimes 50, and no rebound insomnia, even when i stopped. all that said, chronic dosing will lead to a build-up in your system, but if you are the low-dose range, the washout shouldn't be too severe. i can not recall any adverse effects, and no silly questions here - i think wise sage larry hoover said the only [silly] question is one that is not asked....and i agree with him. you ask about withdrawl, and i cannot say that at the low dose range it is anything like coming of an ssri or a benzo. i had quite a good run with it, and you will hear about weight gain, but this is dose-dependent, and the lit indicates that 200 up to 800 mg qd is the dose for treating schizophrenia, so you are well below that....there is trouble with blood sugar levels which could lead to type II diabetes, but i suspect the incidence is low, although this is my conjecture *and* i mean low for your dose range (assuming you are in the 25-50 mg prn hs range)....please let me know if this is of help, all the best, chemist
> > >
> > > > > > hi there, chemist here....seroquel in low dosages is a hypnotic, but as you increase, the grogginess will go away. if you want to go to sleep, take 25 to 50 mg at bedtime: you're out like a light. as you work your way towards 150-200 mg, the effects you are seeking will take hold and the hypnotic aspect of te drug will be diminished....all the best, chemist
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you very much. Any more info on Seroquel you can share?
> > > > >
> > > > > Nohope
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > hi there....seroquel hits th 5-HT_{2} and dopamine_{2} receptors pretty hard....it is an atypical antipsychotic that, along with risperidone and ziprasidone, has recently been on the radar for mood stabilizing effects. ziprasidone (geodon, zonegran) is more weight-neutral than the others, with wieght-gain with seroquel being less a problem than risperidone and slightly more than that of ziprasidone. the extrapyrimidal side effects - especially with ziprasidone, which include SJS and a prolonged QT interval, making this one my least favorite - are reduced vs. typical antipsychotics. all in all, seroquel is superior in my opinion, although i have one client whoo is truly schizophrenic and like risperidone the best, although dietary adjustments are necessary and exercise (never a bad thing) is important for weight-gain.....if you want to roll the dice, you could do worse than seroquel....let me know if you need more info, i will provide what i can....all the best, chemist
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
Posted by cpallen79 on July 10, 2004, at 17:38:24
In reply to Re: Seroquel users: a couple of questions » cpallen79, posted by chemist on July 9, 2004, at 20:52:19
Chemist,
I have developed a really nasty case of akathisia from the Seroquel, I began to notice it in the evenings as my Adderall from my A.D.D. wore off and it got worse and worse and worse till I could not stand it today! Have you heard of this? Is it permanent? Will it stop if I stop taking the Seroquel or continue on? I think I will try something else for insomnia because akathesia feels awful.
Posted by barbaracat on July 10, 2004, at 22:59:42
In reply to Re: One link you may want to read » nmk, posted by chemist on May 5, 2004, at 14:37:45
A question for chemist and a comment on Seroquel. I am bipolar II and have been on every AD on the book, most recently lithium and lamictal. I stopped everything this past January after coming down with SJS and tried to do it au natural. Didn't work and went back on lithium and pharmaceutical grade St. John's Wort and was and was doing great, really good. But sleep has always been a problem, even with Ambien, and I thought to try Seroquel for sleep and any extra therapeutic protection against bipolar depression.
I started with 12.5 mg 4 days ago and am crashing into a vegetative, yet agitated depression since. A very small amount, I know, but I'm tired and jaggy all day PLUS, it has not helped me sleep. I'm afraid to take more considering how strongly I've been affected. I am constantly hungry, hungry, hungry and have gained 7 pounds in 4 days. I just feel yicky, somewhat like my short trial of zyprexa.
Chemist, you mention the histamine blockade with Seroquel. I'm reading that some of us can have disordered histadine/histamine production which can result in depression and paradoxical med effects. Also the affinity to a particular serotonin receptor you mentioned. Now, doesn't Seroquel work in part by reducing dopamine (which could by itself cause a lack of pleasure seeking activity) and doesn't it also reduce serotonin through the affinity with this receptor? I don't get this since reducing serotonin does not seem logical in light of it's touted antidepressant behavior. Reduced serotonin could also explain my haunting the cupboards and fridge prowling for sweets. Normally I could care less for cupcakes and brownies, but I drool at the thought, probably an attempt to increase serotonin. Any comments appreciated. In the meantime, I will drop Seroquel, go back on Ambien and note if I start feeling better. It will be a good test and I will post back with my progress which I hope improves. - BarbaraCat
p.s. BTW, the www.psycheducation.org site is consistently fab, in my book.
Posted by cpallen79 on July 10, 2004, at 23:05:35
In reply to Seroquel - don't think so » chemist, posted by barbaracat on July 10, 2004, at 22:59:42
Barbara, I'm sorry you've been through this hell with seroquel, the agitation and akathisia I experienced was VERY unpleasant and I'm terrified of it coming back. The only thing that smoothed it out was my adderall, which increases dopamine... HORRID experience
Posted by chemist on July 11, 2004, at 0:00:22
In reply to Re: Seroquel users: a couple of questions (HELP) » chemist, posted by cpallen79 on July 10, 2004, at 17:38:24
> Chemist,
> I have developed a really nasty case of akathisia from the Seroquel, I began to notice it in the evenings as my Adderall from my A.D.D. wore off and it got worse and worse and worse till I could not stand it today! Have you heard of this? Is it permanent? Will it stop if I stop taking the Seroquel or continue on? I think I will try something else for insomnia because akathesia feels awful.
>
hello there, chemist here....yes, i have heard of it. no, it not permanent and will go away if you lower the dose or stop taking the drug, and in the meantime, you can try adding a beta-blocker to help counteract. apologies for getting back to you so late, and all the best, worry not.....chemist
Posted by cpallen79 on July 11, 2004, at 0:09:23
In reply to Re: Seroquel users: a couple of questions (HELP) » cpallen79, posted by chemist on July 11, 2004, at 0:00:22
Thank god for you chemist! I really appreciate your responses, they've been comforting. I was reading up on the net and was wondering if Trazodone can be used with an SSRI? I currently take Lexapro, Buspar, and Adderall. The Seroquel will be no more. Trazodone sounds like a potential opportunity but I've heard that one of it's metabolites (m-chlorophenylpiperazine) can build up in the blood and cause anxiety/panic. Same with Serzone too. Can it be taken in conjunction with an SSRI or am I asking for a panic attack? I'd love to give trazodone a try but i hate panic attacks, that's for sure.
Posted by chemist on July 11, 2004, at 0:21:41
In reply to Seroquel - don't think so » chemist, posted by barbaracat on July 10, 2004, at 22:59:42
> A question for chemist and a comment on Seroquel. I am bipolar II and have been on every AD on the book, most recently lithium and lamictal. I stopped everything this past January after coming down with SJS and tried to do it au natural. Didn't work and went back on lithium and pharmaceutical grade St. John's Wort and was and was doing great, really good. But sleep has always been a problem, even with Ambien, and I thought to try Seroquel for sleep and any extra therapeutic protection against bipolar depression.
>
> I started with 12.5 mg 4 days ago and am crashing into a vegetative, yet agitated depression since. A very small amount, I know, but I'm tired and jaggy all day PLUS, it has not helped me sleep. I'm afraid to take more considering how strongly I've been affected. I am constantly hungry, hungry, hungry and have gained 7 pounds in 4 days. I just feel yicky, somewhat like my short trial of zyprexa.
>
> Chemist, you mention the histamine blockade with Seroquel. I'm reading that some of us can have disordered histadine/histamine production which can result in depression and paradoxical med effects. Also the affinity to a particular serotonin receptor you mentioned. Now, doesn't Seroquel work in part by reducing dopamine (which could by itself cause a lack of pleasure seeking activity) and doesn't it also reduce serotonin through the affinity with this receptor? I don't get this since reducing serotonin does not seem logical in light of it's touted antidepressant behavior. Reduced serotonin could also explain my haunting the cupboards and fridge prowling for sweets. Normally I could care less for cupcakes and brownies, but I drool at the thought, probably an attempt to increase serotonin. Any comments appreciated. In the meantime, I will drop Seroquel, go back on Ambien and note if I start feeling better. It will be a good test and I will post back with my progress which I hope improves. - BarbaraCat
>
> p.s. BTW, the www.psycheducation.org site is consistently fab, in my book.
hello there, chemist here.....seroquel is an antagonist for several serotonin, histamine, dopamine, and adrenergic receptors. an antagonist inhibits reuptake of the compound that ought to righfully be in the receptor, thus preventing the receptor from doing it's work. hence, you are keeping levels of all of these neurotransmitters high by using seroquel, because seroquel binds to the receptors more tightly than do the ``rightful owners,'' if you will. so actually seroquel acts as a pretty wide-spectrum drug. the extrapyramidal side effects (such as those related to movement) are caused by the same mechanism that the are in patients with Parkinson's disease, in that the dopamine system gets shut down (diminished, perhaps, is a better word) and there is only so much dopamine out in the brain (and this dopamine needs to be replenished and is not geting replenished, thus, movement disorders, among other things). a parting shot: low doses of seroquel make one quite drowsy. higher doses (200 mg-800 mg) are less sedating and more for use in treating psychoses. you might have better luck on 25 or 50 mg, strange as it may seem. please do let me know if your questions have been addressed satisfactorily, i will do my best to provide info should you need it...all the best, chemist
Posted by chemist on July 11, 2004, at 0:31:46
In reply to Re: Seroquel users: a couple of questions (HELP) » chemist, posted by cpallen79 on July 11, 2004, at 0:09:23
> Thank god for you chemist! I really appreciate your responses, they've been comforting. I was reading up on the net and was wondering if Trazodone can be used with an SSRI? I currently take Lexapro, Buspar, and Adderall. The Seroquel will be no more. Trazodone sounds like a potential opportunity but I've heard that one of it's metabolites (m-chlorophenylpiperazine) can build up in the blood and cause anxiety/panic. Same with Serzone too. Can it be taken in conjunction with an SSRI or am I asking for a panic attack? I'd love to give trazodone a try but i hate panic attacks, that's for sure.
hello there, chemist here....i'd be careful but not overly so if the trazodone/ssri is going to be used for sleep purposes. i do know that trazodone is a no-no in conjunction with serzone, yet serzone will be packing it's bags from the drugstore shelves soon. trazodone on its own is quite sedating, and the metabolite is not a heavy-hitter, from what i recall. now, you are taking a stimulant (adderall) and a rather ineffective (in my opinion) anxiolytic, buspar, in addition to an antidepressant, lexapro. my first suggestion is to consider discussing with your doctor dropping buspar and replacing it with a small dose (perhaps 1-2 mg qd) a benzo such as klonopin. my second suggestion is to lower your adderall intake a bit, as you are being overstimulated and the buspar cannot handle it. please be well, and keep us all posted if any of these suggestions are of help and, should you make the switch, if it is effective for you. trazodone really leaves one in a fog, you know, and it does have andi-depressant qualities (it is an atypical TCA), so adding that on along with another AD (lexapro) and your adderall would, i presume, lead to a queasy state of ``masked'' anxiety/panic. all the best, chemist
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