Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1016

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Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?

Posted by caritasrainbow on March 22, 2004, at 12:52:38

In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by John R. tate on March 22, 2004, at 12:43:59

> I went cold turkey two days ago after having reduced to about 10 little balls in the capsule. I'm swimming. Total whoosh when I move my eyes, stand up, or even while I am typing. I feel completely out of it. Does anyone know of anything that can help?

i'm now on day 9 or 10? anyway, still having some of the zinging occasionally, but it's getting less. just hang in there.
rain

 

Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?

Posted by annesand on March 22, 2004, at 15:30:56

In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by John R. tate on March 22, 2004, at 12:43:59

But really, how long does it take to feel 100% back to normal after you've stopped?

I rather rashly cut back to 37.5 mg from 150 mg a few days ago. Yes brain shivers and dizziness, but it's not unbearable. Think I'm likely to feel worse before I feel better? I'm trying to decide if it's a good idea to stay like this next week while I'm off work, or if I'll be ruining a perfectly good vacation.

 

Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?

Posted by caritasrainbow on March 22, 2004, at 16:18:41

In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by annesand on March 22, 2004, at 15:30:56

> But really, how long does it take to feel 100% back to normal after you've stopped?
>
> I rather rashly cut back to 37.5 mg from 150 mg a few days ago. Yes brain shivers and dizziness, but it's not unbearable. Think I'm likely to feel worse before I feel better? I'm trying to decide if it's a good idea to stay like this next week while I'm off work, or if I'll be ruining a perfectly good vacation.

well, i went from 450 to 375 to 300 to 150 to nothing within about a week and a half and by day 5 of nothing the symptoms were so bad my legs and arms were shaking, my teeth wouldn't stop chattering, so the dr put me back on 75 when he saw me. i took that for 4 days, then skipped a day, symptoms got bad so i took 37.5 for a few days then went off entirely. the first two days were the worst. now it's just over a week and the zings are still there, but not as bad. definately able to function okay now, just wish the zings would stop entirely. sooo... the first time the zings and stuff got worse with each passing day, but this time they seem to be getting better with each passing day. not sure if this helps... but when i went off the first time the days got worse and worse until i went back on and cut back a little more slowly. also now my memory is awful and i do seem to be having some problems making sense of my thoughts? or putting them in order? see, i don't think i even make sense, just feel like i'm babbling...

 

Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?

Posted by cpallen79 on March 22, 2004, at 18:50:49

In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by caritasrainbow on March 22, 2004, at 12:52:38

Hi guys, thought I'd put my input in. Effexor is very difficult to taper off of as we all have learned. I thought I would have it easy since I was only on 37.5 . I opened capsules, took out about half of the pellets and did this for about 3 to 4 weeks before stopping cold turkey. Even THAT was too fast as when you go off an antidepressant, you're nervous system is a mess, some say for even up to 18 months afterwards. I'm on month 4 and I still feel very very blah (going to try buspar to take the edge off it). My advice to everyone is this... TAPER so slow that its boring. Second, don't expect to be back to normal once you're off the meds and the brain zaps stop, etc... , especially if you've been on meds a long time, you won't feel normal for quite awhile. It'll happen, but it takes time and it'll be a rollercoaster! I'm assuming that your brain needs to repair itself and restore its own serotogenic balance, and for me it's been a bumpy ride. I know people that have been thorugh this nightmare of tapering off these meds and they get through it, even though it can be painful. We'll all get through it.

 

Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?

Posted by roomy on March 23, 2004, at 6:34:36

In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by cpallen79 on March 22, 2004, at 18:50:49

I too, will add my two cents....again. I still come and read here and I ocassionally post. I was on Effexor for about 6 years. As of January 1st I have been Effexor free. Tapering off was hell, and then finally dropping off to zero no matter how slow the taper...is even more hell. Every day gets better and better and as for 'wasting your vacation' I can truely understand what a crappy vacation you must be having but as far as a waste...nah...prolly not. If you FAIL for now and try to quit the effexor at another time THEN the days you have already felt miserable will have been for nothing and you will have to go thru it all again. Every day does get easier I promise. Whether you can notice it or not I believe it does get better. Its been three months for me now (or pretty dang close to it) I think that physically I am back to normal except for losing the extra weight the effexor caused me to gain. Mentally I am doing much better but I think my mind was a bit sharper, quicker, wittier before I took the Effexor and I have days where I am "Blah" Not depressed, just kinda blah and I get a lazy, lethargic feeling. But I can deal with occasional days like that. I think thats down right normal for most people. Hang in there, keep hanging in there, and when you feel like you cant do it....hang in there the most. Try to keep yourself doing a project. I also tried PM medication for nighttime and the 'no-doze' or 'stinger' type medication for the daytime. I am not sure if it helped but it kept me more 'routine' while I was going thru the withdrawl.
Good luck!! Keep us up-to-date!!
-Roomy

 

Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?

Posted by annesand on March 23, 2004, at 7:07:02

In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by roomy on March 23, 2004, at 6:34:36

Thank you so much for your thoughtful responses. It helps more than you know. I feel like crying. Or maybe that's just another symptom (smile). Hearing what you all have gone through gives me hope.

 

Re: Going through Effexor Withdrawl now

Posted by Raggy on March 23, 2004, at 8:16:18

In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by annesand on March 23, 2004, at 7:07:02

I hope everyone has seen on the news how the FDA has put out warnings now for adults as well as children that these drugs can make you more depressed and suicidal. You can go to the FDA website or it is listed here as well. http://my.webmd.com/content/article/84/98068.htm

 

Re: Going through Effexor Withdrawl now

Posted by cpallen79 on March 23, 2004, at 9:10:47

In reply to Re: Going through Effexor Withdrawl now, posted by Raggy on March 23, 2004, at 8:16:18

The FDA warning is in fact interesting because really it touches on what we've all dealt with for so long, the changes in doses from ill- equipped doctors, the misinformation (my personal favorite...) "if you're having these rebound effects after taking an antidepressant- you should be on them indefintely!"... the lack of understanding. The mdeical community needs a good slap in the face for this ordeal. Hopefully a drug company will come up with a medication thats effective in getting a person OFF an antidepressant. Wouldn't it be great if you could take an antidepressant for a year if necessary, then move to med that regulates your serotogenic systems while you go off the antidepressant... a "taper med" so to speak? Just think, they could even use it for drug and alcohol withdrawals too! Ok, enough of my creative side.

 

Effexor XR Story and my opinion 25 F mother of 1

Posted by Sinaminika on March 23, 2004, at 10:57:49

In reply to Re: Going through Effexor Withdrawl now, posted by cpallen79 on March 23, 2004, at 9:10:47

I'm not sure how long I have been on Effexor but I had no idea of the withdrawl syptoms.
If I would have known they were as bad as they are I would have never agreed to start taking them.

I only missed two days and I had severe side effects. I have never experienced such pain in my life.
I had what seemed to be electrical zaps in my brains. Grinding of teeth . Life like nightmares .
Confusion . It almost seemed like all brain activity was shutting down. It was unbearable.
After about a day of this I started to panic. I called my doctor and they were very unfriendly about the whole situation.
I then demanded someone get me my pills (because I was alone with my 1 year old daughter and I was scared that if something would happen to her I wouldn't be able to react .) trust me I didnt tell them that !
There was no possible way to drive at this point.
I had actually got a neighbor out of bed to drive me to the pharmacy to pick up the pills that the dr finally agreed to call in.
this never would have happened if the insurance company would have told me that after the first four phamacy visits the prescription then turned into a through the mail prescription.
So I ended up paying around 250.00 for a month supply since the insurance wouldn't cover it anymore "behind the counter "
Now I am left here sitting reading the posts about Effexor...I had to quit my job because of the whole effexor ordeal.
Now I am without insurance and I can't afford 250 a month on pills.
I called my dr yesterday and I asked nicely (this time) that they call in a lower dosage for me at my local pharmacy. I am assuming that they did .now I just have to wonder how am I suppose to come up with this money every month until I can completly stop taking this stuff ?
I can't afford to have the withdrawl symptoms due to having a small child with me.
I would rather be depressed then go through withdrawl symptoms. Everyone is different so withdrawl could last longer for certain people. It could be worse for certain people. is it worth having a chance that maybe someday something might happen to where you can't take your pills for a couple days ?
you forget them when you leave for a trip ?
or you loose your job and you can't afford the ridiculous price every single month ?
In my situation I would have to say that I wish I would have never been introduced to effexor.
I don't think its worth it in the long run.
It just doesn't work that good. Even on them I am still moody and I am tired all the time and I still feel depressed.

 

Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last? caritasrainbow

Posted by Angel Girl on March 23, 2004, at 22:46:08

In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by caritasrainbow on March 22, 2004, at 16:18:41


>
> well, i went from 450 to 375 to 300 to 150 to nothing within about a week and a half and by day 5 of nothing the symptoms were so bad my legs and arms were shaking, my teeth wouldn't stop chattering, so the dr put me back on 75 when he saw me. i took that for 4 days, then skipped a day, symptoms got bad so i took 37.5 for a few days then went off entirely. the first two days were the worst. now it's just over a week and the zings are still there, but not as bad. definately able to function okay now, just wish the zings would stop entirely. sooo... the first time the zings and stuff got worse with each passing day, but this time they seem to be getting better with each passing day. not sure if this helps... but when i went off the first time the days got worse and worse until i went back on and cut back a little more slowly. also now my memory is awful and i do seem to be having some problems making sense of my thoughts? or putting them in order? see, i don't think i even make sense, just feel like i'm babbling...

Rain

Personally I think your tapering is way to fast. I used to be on 367.5 and had lots of side effects similiar to what y'all are describing your withdrawal to be like, especially the brain zaps. It was the brain zaps that were the deciding factor for me to start weaning off of Effexor XR altogether. I tapered extremely slowly by 37.5 every two weeks until I was down to 37.5 per day. Both myself and my shrink were concerned on what would happen with eliminating it completely and discussed whether I should cut the pills up into smaller dosages or cold turkey if from that point. We both decided I would cold turkey it and if it got too bad then I would start taking a dosage less than 37.5. I really had no problems throughout my withdrawal from Effexor. I did have the brain zaps for about 3 weeks after I was drug free but I had them from the very beginning of tapering so I was used to them.

I did however experience the hell you are all describing at one of my increases in dosages. I usually increased by only 37.5 each time but one time I felt I needed relief faster so it was increased by 75 instead. I went through the same hell, went to my dr and immediately backed down to the dosage before the increase until things leveled out. At that point it was increased by 37.5

So, I guess what my point is, that I totally understand what y'all are experiencing since going through it firsthand, albeit from an increase, but when I withdrew from it I had relatively no problems. Each one of us has our own experiences and although I am not lessening y'alls experiences, not everybody goes through the horrible withdrawal. However, as I said, I did it EXTREMELY slowly.

Unfortunately though after being off it for awhile, my depression came back and I'm back on it again and currently on a daily dosage of 150.

My thoughts and prayers are with y'all who are having withdrawal problems.

Angel Girl

 

Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?

Posted by John Andrews on March 24, 2004, at 7:13:04

In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last? caritasrainbow, posted by Angel Girl on March 23, 2004, at 22:46:08

> What do yall mean when yall talk about brain zaps?


> >
> > well, i went from 450 to 375 to 300 to 150 to nothing within about a week and a half and by day 5 of nothing the symptoms were so bad my legs and arms were shaking, my teeth wouldn't stop chattering, so the dr put me back on 75 when he saw me. i took that for 4 days, then skipped a day, symptoms got bad so i took 37.5 for a few days then went off entirely. the first two days were the worst. now it's just over a week and the zings are still there, but not as bad. definately able to function okay now, just wish the zings would stop entirely. sooo... the first time the zings and stuff got worse with each passing day, but this time they seem to be getting better with each passing day. not sure if this helps... but when i went off the first time the days got worse and worse until i went back on and cut back a little more slowly. also now my memory is awful and i do seem to be having some problems making sense of my thoughts? or putting them in order? see, i don't think i even make sense, just feel like i'm babbling...
>
>
>
>
>
> Rain
>
> Personally I think your tapering is way to fast. I used to be on 367.5 and had lots of side effects similiar to what y'all are describing your withdrawal to be like, especially the brain zaps. It was the brain zaps that were the deciding factor for me to start weaning off of Effexor XR altogether. I tapered extremely slowly by 37.5 every two weeks until I was down to 37.5 per day. Both myself and my shrink were concerned on what would happen with eliminating it completely and discussed whether I should cut the pills up into smaller dosages or cold turkey if from that point. We both decided I would cold turkey it and if it got too bad then I would start taking a dosage less than 37.5. I really had no problems throughout my withdrawal from Effexor. I did have the brain zaps for about 3 weeks after I was drug free but I had them from the very beginning of tapering so I was used to them.
>
> I did however experience the hell you are all describing at one of my increases in dosages. I usually increased by only 37.5 each time but one time I felt I needed relief faster so it was increased by 75 instead. I went through the same hell, went to my dr and immediately backed down to the dosage before the increase until things leveled out. At that point it was increased by 37.5
>
> So, I guess what my point is, that I totally understand what y'all are experiencing since going through it firsthand, albeit from an increase, but when I withdrew from it I had relatively no problems. Each one of us has our own experiences and although I am not lessening y'alls experiences, not everybody goes through the horrible withdrawal. However, as I said, I did it EXTREMELY slowly.
>
> Unfortunately though after being off it for awhile, my depression came back and I'm back on it again and currently on a daily dosage of 150.
>
> My thoughts and prayers are with y'all who are having withdrawal problems.
>
> Angel Girl
>
>

 

Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?

Posted by annesand on March 24, 2004, at 7:49:59

In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by John Andrews on March 24, 2004, at 7:13:04

Since I'm having them about every ten minutes right now, I'll take a shot at answering. It's like somebody just rang a loud bell near you, but there's no sound. A momentary painless wave/vibration/"zing" inside your head, sometimes with dizziness and/or nausea.

 

Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?

Posted by John Andrews on March 24, 2004, at 7:58:49

In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by annesand on March 24, 2004, at 7:49:59

Did you have these brain zings while taking effexor or just when you stopped taking it?

 

Re: Effexor XR Story and my opinion 25 F mother of 1 Sinaminika

Posted by roomy on March 24, 2004, at 8:04:11

In reply to Effexor XR Story and my opinion 25 F mother of 1, posted by Sinaminika on March 23, 2004, at 10:57:49

My suggesstion to you is to TELL your doctor about your plan to go off the Effexor and when he lowers your dosage each time, TELL him you need a sample since your insurance wont cover it. They get samples free ALL THE TIME!!!! Get your Rx filled early so if he doesnt have any samples then you can come back in a couple weeks and check then. (and still not run out of your current Rx) If this STILL doesnt work and you cant get the free samples...tell the doctor that you want a full month supply of your current dose only in the 37.5 capsules. That way you will be able to taper off it yourself and have enough. (do you follow all that 'psycho-babble'?)
ya see...if you get a script for a month supply of 75mg only get it in a 37.5 capsules...then you will have a TWO months supply of the 37.5.
I think the first choice is best since the samples will be free and your doctor should know and be involved in what your plans are. There are drugs out there to help with the withdrawl. I JUST recently talked to a friend of mine that went thru the same situation as you and I and she said after trying to quit several times...she finally did it when her doctor put her on THREE days of Prozac. That drug helped with the withdrawl of the effexor and the prozac was unnoticable to quit.
sorry for rambling so much. Good luck.

 

Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?

Posted by annesand on March 24, 2004, at 8:31:50

In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by John Andrews on March 24, 2004, at 7:58:49

Only when I taper off/stop. Never while on it.

 

Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?

Posted by caritasrainbow on March 24, 2004, at 11:45:46

In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last? caritasrainbow, posted by Angel Girl on March 23, 2004, at 22:46:08

>
> Personally I think your tapering is way to fast.

ah yes! definately won't argue with that. i just get impatient, so i went off more quickly than even my dr preferred. as for getting back on, well should i have to get back on something at some time i know i will look long and hard at my options. i've been told wellbutrin has no side effects, i'm thinking there must be more like that. i know going off pamelor and prozac didn't cause me any problems.
i've been diagnosed bipolar for 14 years, but have a new dr that thinks i'm not? very frustrating. anyway, got off the meds only to discover i'm pregnant, so i'm off all for a bit anyway. not helpful at all because the circumstances of the pregnancy are more than i can bear right now. still waiting to find out why they seem to think i have cancer as well? nothing seems to make sense anymore and i've lost my crutches. (my meds)
rain

 

Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?

Posted by caritasrainbow on March 24, 2004, at 11:47:24

In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by John Andrews on March 24, 2004, at 7:13:04

> > What do yall mean when yall talk about brain zaps?

the weird zinging feeling that you get in your head when off the meds for even as short as a few hours. feels almost like a big yawn in your brain or like you are being zapped with electricity.
rain

 

Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?

Posted by John Andrews on March 24, 2004, at 12:17:18

In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by caritasrainbow on March 24, 2004, at 11:47:24

This is the first time i have heard of this. I was on effexor(75mg) for 6 months last year and the only side effect i noticed when quitting was that my entire face was numb for a week. Doc just put me back on and gave me 150 mg. at least i will know what it is if i do experience this.

 

Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?

Posted by worm on March 24, 2004, at 12:46:54

In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by annesand on March 24, 2004, at 8:31:50

See, I get the zings (so glad someone knows what I'm talking about, I thought I was going crazy-er!) If I skip 2 doses, but the other side effects, which I didn't know were side effects, I get while on the Effexor (nausea, dizziness, extreme muscle weakness, joint pain, and chills)
Lots of fun, huh? I don't get them all at one time, but the muscle aches and weakness, seems to be timed to when I take my Effexor, and the chills a little while later. The dizziness just hits me when I get up too fast or move too fast. Never consistent enough for me to associate with the taking of my meds.

 

Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last? John Andrews

Posted by Angel Girl on March 24, 2004, at 21:48:31

In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by John Andrews on March 24, 2004, at 7:58:49

> Did you have these brain zings while taking effexor or just when you stopped taking it?


Hi John!

I had the brain zaps while actually taking the Effexor but only at higher dosages and then of course the entire time I was weaning and for about 3 weeks after I was completely off Effexor. I would describe them as the feeling like you have an electrical shock in your head. They're HORRIBLE!!!

I've been back on Effexor for a long time now, currently taking 150mg/daily with no brain zaps.

Hope that helps!

Angel Girl

 

Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last? caritasrainbow

Posted by Angel Girl on March 24, 2004, at 21:58:43

In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by caritasrainbow on March 24, 2004, at 11:45:46

> >
> > Personally I think your tapering is way to fast.
>
> ah yes! definately won't argue with that. i just get impatient, so i went off more quickly than even my dr preferred. as for getting back on, well should i have to get back on something at some time i know i will look long and hard at my options. i've been told wellbutrin has no side effects, i'm thinking there must be more like that. i know going off pamelor and prozac didn't cause me any problems.
> i've been diagnosed bipolar for 14 years, but have a new dr that thinks i'm not? very frustrating. anyway, got off the meds only to discover i'm pregnant, so i'm off all for a bit anyway. not helpful at all because the circumstances of the pregnancy are more than i can bear right now. still waiting to find out why they seem to think i have cancer as well? nothing seems to make sense anymore and i've lost my crutches. (my meds)
> rain

Rain

I'm so sorry to hear that you may have cancer. I must've missed that in your post before. I'll pray that you don't. Congratulations on your pregnancy. Maybe with being off of all the meds you might find you don't actually need them. That's the thing, when you're on them how do you know what you would actually be like without them. I know I get really sick of the tons of pills I take a day. There are some days I feel like throwing them all in the garbage and that maybe I don't need them after all, that I'm just being told that I do. My diagnosis is bi-polar as well. My personal experience with Effexor is that you can't be too impatient with either weaning or increasing or you're going to pay the piper.

Good luck with going drug free, your cancer test and your pregnancy. How far along are you? When will you find out for sure about the cancer? Please keep us posted.

Angel Girl

 

Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?

Posted by Angel Girl on March 24, 2004, at 22:01:45

In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by John Andrews on March 24, 2004, at 12:17:18

> This is the first time i have heard of this. I was on effexor(75mg) for 6 months last year and the only side effect i noticed when quitting was that my entire face was numb for a week. Doc just put me back on and gave me 150 mg. at least i will know what it is if i do experience this.


John

I'm a little confused. Why would your doctor put you back on Effexor at a higher dosage than you were on before after you came off it just because your face felt numb? Could you please enlighten me.

Thanks.
Angel Girl

 

Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last? worm

Posted by Angel Girl on March 24, 2004, at 22:12:25

In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?, posted by worm on March 24, 2004, at 12:46:54

> See, I get the zings (so glad someone knows what I'm talking about, I thought I was going crazy-er!) If I skip 2 doses, but the other side effects, which I didn't know were side effects, I get while on the Effexor (nausea, dizziness, extreme muscle weakness, joint pain, and chills)
> Lots of fun, huh? I don't get them all at one time, but the muscle aches and weakness, seems to be timed to when I take my Effexor, and the chills a little while later. The dizziness just hits me when I get up too fast or move too fast. Never consistent enough for me to associate with the taking of my meds.
>


Worm

I pretty much had every side effect listed, or at least it felt that way to me, the first time I was on Effexor. I too remember having the dizziness when getting up too fast or moving too fast. I had actually forgotten about that one. The ones that were the most prominent for me were insomnia, tremors/twitching and extremely dry mouth.

This is actually my 2nd time on Effexor after weaning off of a very high dosage 367.5 before, 150 now. So far this time, the side effects I have is the extremely dry mouth and tremors/twitching but since I take a miriad of different drugs who really knows which one is causing me the number of side effects I have. :(

Angel Girl

 

Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?

Posted by caritasrainbow on March 25, 2004, at 1:15:56

In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last? John Andrews, posted by Angel Girl on March 24, 2004, at 21:48:31

> > Did you have these brain zings while taking effexor or just when you stopped taking it?

i was taking 450mg a day for about a year and a half and i never had the zaps unless i forgot to take it. they started if i was late even a couple of hours. but they were never as bad as when i got off without tapering slowly. still having them, but not as often and not as awful.

 

Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last?

Posted by caritasrainbow on March 25, 2004, at 1:20:34

In reply to Re: How long does withdrawal from Effexor last? caritasrainbow, posted by Angel Girl on March 24, 2004, at 21:58:43

> Good luck with going drug free, your cancer test and your pregnancy. How far along are you? When will you find out for sure about the cancer? Please keep us posted.

Okay, finally saw a doctor who seems to have a clue. NO CANCER!! Huge sigh of relief there. As for being off meds entirely, I've done this before usually with not so great results. But I know I'll manage. The pregnancy... Well that's a whole nother mess I've gotten myself into... ~sigh~
thanks for your concern. I was freaking out for the last 7 days waiting for all the tests to come in and to see a decent dr. My car was totaled in a hit and run Sunday night, so now I'm carless.. I think I may have already mentioned that though. Anyway, the insurance company *is* sending me out a check as soon as they get my car title, so let's hope the postal service is very speedy!
rain (still zinging a wee bit)


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